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[Jaysen]

See, that's exactly what you don't understand.

I'm not talking about pro and con (spoiler: I'm pro-vaccination), I'm talking about how most people treat people with other opinions and the hatred some people are expressing here because of it. It's not about accepting and adopting the other opinion, but it's about a certain respect towards other people.

People on both sides suddenly start acting as if the pros and cons of vaccination are the only criteria for judging a person. Absolutely disgusting and despicable. It is things like this blind rage and hatred that has already led to things in the past that humanity has no reason to be proud of.

How much respect does someone who willfully puts other people’s lives at risk deserve? Your both sides bullshit will never not be tired.

 

[Punished Miku]

It’s what I said a few posts back…everything is now a binary platform. You’re either “for” or “against”…and this thinking has been unraveling our country for some time.

Even ending the war in Afghanistan, following the plan the previous administration laid out - turned into a partisan talking point with people instantly flip-flopping sides to own the other team who was doing what they previously said they wanted to do just a few months earlier. Even a democratic election for president, certified by countless republicans and the republican supreme court - turned into a both sides disaster that is still unresolved for many people who live in an alternate version of reality.

Fast forward to today. The grown-ups left in power are going to try and address the growing body count in our hospitals and ICUs, and they really only have one path forward that will move the needle at all. That's what's happening. The other side is never going to be happy about it. See my above examples.

 

[betrayal]

How much respect does someone who willfully puts other people’s lives at risk deserve? Your both sides bullshit will never not be tired.

First of all, I would recommend that you stop the gaslighting and making generalizations. You can't even seem to talk normally with someone who actually has the same opinion as you, but doesn't immediately condemn all other people and wish them a painful death.

Anyway, there are other points, which don't correspond to your statement.

a) Someone who is not vaccinated can still be careful.

b) It is about intention and you obviously assume that all non-vaccinated people have the intention to harm other people. There is no need to comment further.

c) Why do unvaccinated people put other vaccinated people at risk, if the vaccination offers a good protection, which is fortunately the case.


All your thoughts are based on factually untrue and sometimes really idiotic assumptions. The same is also the case with the extreme anti-vaxxers, but you are obviously trying to get on the same level as these people. I strongly suggest you take a few weeks off from (social) media, start focusing on your life and enjoy it.

 

[Thaedolus]

This retweet by Ronald Klain, the WH Chief of Staff, says the quiet part out loud. Tyranny is bad. Dumb tyranny is even worse.

Found Ted Cruz’s GAF account

 

[Punished Miku]

c) Why do unvaccinated people put other vaccinated people at risk, if the vaccination offers a good protection, which is fortunately the case.

Prior to delta, they didn't really. Protection from infection was 95%, so it really didn't matter for a vaccinated person. Granted, our hospitals and ICUs would still be over capacity, with limited availability to treat a whole host of other serious conditions. Our economy would be underperforming right when unemployment is running out.

But with delta, it's different. Vaccinated people can get breakthrough cases. It's much less likely still, but it's happening. The best defense is a numbers game approach. The more people have the vaccine, the less chance the virus has to spread. Multiply that over everyone and with 80-90% vaccination rates, you start seeing the amount of sick people drop substantially. If your odds improve with the vaccine, then flip that coin every single time the virus comes in contact with a new person - and those percentage gains just grow in effectiveness each time. Lots of vaccines are only truly effective when the overwhelming majority of people have it.

 

[Guileless]

The Intercept has followup on the docs it published on US research funding for coronavirus research undertaken in Wuhan.

The Intercept had to sue the NIH to fulfill the FOIA request. Our tax dollars got sent to the Wuhan Institute of Virology so they could create novel chimeric coronaviruses, and then the government used more of our tax dollars to fight with a news organization that was attempting to obtain details of the research.

While the new information about the research on humanized mice does not provide the “smoking gun” for proponents of what has become known as the “lab leak theory,” it lends the hypothesis credence, according to Stuart Newman, a professor of cell biology who directs the developmental biology laboratory at New York Medical College. “Making chimeric coronaviruses, mixing and matching RBDs [a part of the virus that allows it to attach to receptors] and spike proteins is exactly the scenario imagined by many lab-leak scenario proponents,” said Newman. “The fact that this was an established research paradigm in the Wuhan lab … definitely makes the laboratory origin more plausible.”

The documents about the research were released by NIH after The Intercept submitted a Freedom of Information Act request in September 2020, later suing to have it fulfilled. The request sought copies of these and other grant proposals that Daszak submitted to the agency, as well as the agency’s communications about the proposals. NIH originally denied The Intercept’s request on the grounds that releasing Daszak’s proposals would undermine an ongoing investigation. Counsel for the agency later admitted that NIH had not reviewed many of the records before making that assertion.

“The contents of the grants raise serious questions about the review processes and oversight relating to risky pathogen research,” said Alina Chan, a Boston-based scientist and co-author of the upcoming book “Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19.” The new information in the documents warrants further inquiry into whether researchers may have omitted information about other concerning experiments, she said. “The question is: What else did they do in more recent years that we’re not aware of?”

 

[12Goblins]

These are people’s lives man…not a podium you can use for your arguments. Gross. That’s someone’s mother or relative, regardless of what you think of her.

she's literally walking around making a mockery of the pandemic though. what should offend you is her attempting to put others in hospital beds with her erratic behavior, not that her story can serve as a cautionary tale. I do believe she is also a victim of disinformation on some level here, as I don't believe anyone willfully tries to hurt others or themselves, but at the end of the day it's her being misinformed combined with her selfish/self-righteous behavior that she imposes on others that is the problem here

 

[betrayal]

Prior to delta, they didn't really. Protection from infection was 95%, so it really didn't matter for a vaccinated person. Granted, our hospitals and ICUs would still be over capacity, with limited availability to treat a whole host of other serious conditions. Our economy would be underperforming right when unemployment is running out.

But with delta, it's different. Vaccinated people can get breakthrough cases. It's much less likely still, but it's happening. The best defense is a numbers game approach. The more people have the vaccine, the less chance the virus has to spread. Multiply that over everyone and with 80-90% vaccination rates, you start seeing the amount of sick people drop substantially. If your odds improve with the vaccine, then flip that coin every single time the virus comes in contact with a new person - and those percentage gains just grow in effectiveness each time. Lots of vaccines are only truly effective when the overwhelming majority of people have it.

That's ture, but it's not about vaccine breakthroughs, which would also happen with a vaccination rate of 100%, but about the severity of the disease.

Vaccination protects very well against severe courses of the disease and vaccinated people (with severe pre-existing conditions or very old age) who nevertheless have to be hospitalized are precisely the people who would always have to be careful even with a vaccination rate of 100%. It would probably not change anything at all for this very small group of people if they wanted to be sure that they would not get infected.
Vaccine breakthroughs happen much more frequently than is currently statistically reported, but they are rarely detected because most vaccine breakthroughs are asymptomatic and therefore people do not get tested, but nevertheless always carry a certain risk of infecting other people.

 

[Narasumas]

she's literally walking around making a mockery of the pandemic though. what should offend you is her attempting to put others in hospital beds with her erratic behavior, not that her story can serve as a cautionary tale. I do believe she is also a victim of disinformation on some level here, as I don't believe anyone willfully tries to hurt others or themselves, but at the end of the day it's her being misinformed combined with her selfish/self-righteous behavior that she imposes on others that is the problem here

I agree with every point you make. I still feel we shouldn’t use people (we are ALL going through this!) as pawns. We’ve got to stop doing that as a country. One other point that others are making is that being unvaccinated somehow means that you are WILLFULLY putting others at risk. That’s a bit hyperbolic, as even the vaccinated carry a probability of transmissibility. It’s one thing to say possibly that unvaccinated are putting others at risk by consuming ICU beds, etc…. But with the current strain of COVID around, we are all potential transmitters (vaccinated or unvaccinated). I don’t think someone is unvaccinated hoping they get COVID and pass it on to others. We spend time berating Zoro mask types, but won’t talk about football stadiums at near-capacity. I would argue THAT could be willfully putting others at risk…not making personal choices about your body/health and trying to stay in your lane, buy groceries and adhere to social distancing guidelines that have been ever-moving. It’s all fucked man. We’re all on the same team… I just wish there was a higher confidence in this pandemic passed down to us from those that should be (Trump/Biden/China/CDC, whoever the hell you want to name). I hate to say it…but I will never, not stop beating the China drum on this one. That shit needs to come to a head at some point.

 

[WoJ]

First of all, I would recommend that you stop the gaslighting and making generalizations. You can't even seem to talk normally with someone who actually has the same opinion as you, but doesn't immediately condemn all other people and wish them a painful death.

Anyway, there are other points, which don't correspond to your statement.

a) Someone who is not vaccinated can still be careful.

b) It is about intention and you obviously assume that all non-vaccinated people have the intention to harm other people. There is no need to comment further.

c) Why do unvaccinated people put other vaccinated people at risk, if the vaccination offers a good protection, which is fortunately the case.


All your thoughts are based on factually untrue and sometimes really idiotic assumptions. The same is also the case with the extreme anti-vaxxers, but you are obviously trying to get on the same level as these people. I strongly suggest you take a few weeks off from (social) media, start focusing on your life and enjoy it.

He's a disingenuous clown who just wants everyone to do what he says just because. Best to ignore the clown.

 

[sackings]

I agree with every point you make. I still feel we shouldn’t use people (we are ALL going through this!) as pawns. We’ve got to stop doing that as a country. One other point that others are making is that being unvaccinated somehow means that you are WILLFULLY putting others at risk. That’s a bit hyperbolic, as even the vaccinated carry a probability of transmissibility. It’s one thing to say possibly that unvaccinated are putting others at risk by consuming ICU beds, etc…. But with the current strain of COVID around, we are all potential transmitters (vaccinated or unvaccinated). I don’t think someone is unvaccinated hoping they get COVID and pass it on to others. We spend time berating Zoro mask types, but won’t talk about football stadiums at near-capacity. I would argue THAT could be willfully putting others at risk…not making personal choices about your body/health and trying to stay in your lane, buy groceries and adhere to social distancing guidelines that have been ever-moving. It’s all fucked man. We’re all on the same team… I just wish there was a higher confidence in this pandemic passed down to us from those that should be (Trump/Biden/China/CDC, whoever the hell you want to name). I hate to say it…but I will never, not stop beating the China drum on this one. That shit needs to come to a head at some point.

Xi is laughing his way to world domination. The west is self-destructing in civil conflict while our anger should be directed at the people responsible for this shit.

 

[sinnergy]

Looks like 1,5 years ago not a great look.

 

[sinnergy]

Xi is laughing his way to world domination. The west is self-destructing in civil conflict while our anger should be directed at the people responsible for this shit.

Actually it should be directed to a solution.. being hateful isn’t helping .

Right now : take vaccines

And he has the right to laugh .. his economy and country is almost normal

 

[Punished Miku]

Xi is laughing his way to world domination. The west is self-destructing in civil conflict while our anger should be directed at the people responsible for this shit.

Not going to get into politics on here, but I'll just say that is basically exactly what a lot of people are trying to do.

1) Increase vaccines and end the worst of the pandemic,
2) that would begin restoring the economy to full strength instead of growing slower than China,
3) launch an investigation into the origin of the virus (this already happened, but is going nowhere without Chinese cooperation),
4) pull out of Afghanistan so we can begin rebuilding our military for future competitors and threats (China),
5) Literally just yesterday the US sailed an aircraft carrier through the South China Sea in defiance of their claim into international waters that just started to take effect.

US sails ship through South China Sea days after China institutes new maritime ID rules | CNN Politics

A US destroyer sailed near the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea on Wednesday, the US Navy’s 7th Fleet announced, days after China imposed new maritime identification rules that include the disputed body of water.

www.cnn.com

Or you know, you can put on a Zoro mask and have a laugh at the libs until you end up in the ICU. That might also slow down China by making their sides hurt from laughing so hard at us.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Absolutely ridiculous and unconstitutional. He should be impeached for this. Hopefully it is swiftly challenged.

Unconstitutional? Impeached? lol


You do realize that mandated vaccines have been a thing for a VERY long time correct? Schools have required them for years and so has the military. There is nothing unconstitutional about any of this.

Xi is laughing his way to world domination. The west is self-destructing in civil conflict while our anger should be directed at the people responsible for this shit.

The anger already IS aimed at the people responsible for this shit. People are pissed at the politicians that keep passing insane legislation that is literally killing people and they are pissed at the stubborn fools who would rather spend $200 on fake vaccination cards and eat horse paste than get a free and safe vaccine at their local pharmacy because their favorite grifters on social media told them not to.


The anger is right where it needs to be.

 

[Schattenjäger]

You do realize political figures were shitting on the vaccine almost before it was even rolled out due to who was in charge at the time right? Vaccine hesitancy isn't strictly due to steps that have been taken NOW.

I work in Healthcare, I get updates to the point of annoyance about covid every single day and am 100% in support of the vaccine. Because of my work me and my wife were able to get our shot pretty early and we did it without hesitation and would encourage anyone who ask to do the same. It might even shock you to find out that I'm a *gasp* conservative. I also support a person's right to choose their medical path regardless if I think it's ridiculous or completely insane, that's their right along with the potential consequences.

Also if a governor is saying "you're not required to have the vaccine" a civilian can still...guess what...go get the vaccine. Since when did grown ass people sit around and NEED political figures to babysit them 24/7? Do you need a old ass person telling you what you can and can't do every hour of the day? If you want the vaccine go get it, I'm pretty sure it's in vending machines at this point.

If people dont want to get vaccinated and choose to consult their Dr and take ivermectin so . It doesn't impact you and it's getting tiring seeing people pretend to give a flying fuck about absolute strangers dying that otherwise they would've never known about unless they were shoved in some sad video to get a narrative across. Suddenly people's lives can be used for brownie points so it's all the rage.

Then people say "well yes but then a unvaccinated person could give me covid even though I have the vaccine", well then wear a mask to be extra cautious. But 99% of the time you will be absolutely fine and at worse you'll get a 2 week vacation from work with pay with a mild cold and you can chill and play some games.

You are overlooking something though… it’s about clogging up the hospital system with admissions that could have been prevented

we keep hearing about full ICUs and hospitals that can’t take anymore patients in.. nevermind fatigued nursing staff and providers

there is a lot of downstream impact on not getting the vaccination

 

[Nobody_Important]

You are overlooking something though… it’s about clogging up the hospital system with admissions that could have been prevented

we keep hearing about full ICUs and hospitals that can’t take anymore patients in.. nevermind fatigued nursing staff and providers

there is a lot of downstream impact on not getting the vaccination

Yeah and that is the biggest problem right now. Because the clogged hospitals mean that people are suffering even if though don't have Covid and have followed every precaution to the letter. The unvaccinated are directly applying unnecessary pressure to our medical infrastructure.



This willful ignorance and selfish stupidity has to end.

 

[Loki]

Sounds like the horse paste talking. Seek help.

You're the most low-IQ poster in this entire thread, and you have the nerve to talk shit. Risible.

I’m not the one who drew the comparison to begin with. Maybe turn off whatever chucklefuck replaced Rush Limbaugh or (insert right wing radio host about to die to COVID next) and calm down, because this meltdown is embarrassing

Maybe you need to stop assuming that everyone who objects to the authoritarian, fascist policies being enacted fits into the neat little mental boxes you've made for them. I've listened to Rush Limbaugh maybe 5 times in my whole life, and not once in the past 15+ years. I am a centrist/moderate. To call my analysis of what is happening a "meltdown" is to betray just how far gone you are in terms of being unable to see other perspectives and entertain contrary opinions. Then again, most of society is like that nowadays - they're just split on different sides of most issues. They're inherently partisan and tribal. But I'm not like that to begin with, so none of it makes sense to me and I feel this mentality should be spoken against in the clearest possible terms.

Do you want to get the vaccine?

Do you believe what governments and scientists are telling you about the vaccine?

Do you think the vaccine is vital to ending this pandemic?

Do you have a medically recognised reason for not getting the vaccine?

Answered no to all of those?

Congrats! You’re an anti-vaxxer.

Do you want to get the vaccine? No.

Do you believe what governments and scientists are telling you about the vaccine? Insofar as they are aware? Yes, largely. I don't believe there is any intentional misinformation or lying going on regarding the vaccines' efficacy or known side effects. I simply believe that they can't possibly know the mid- to long-term effects yet. Moreover, the threshold for me to actively DO something is higher than simply demonstrating that there's no harm - there has to be a not-insignificant benefit. And while I do agree that the vaccines confer a benefit, the magnitude of that benefit for folks in my cohort is marginal (absolute risk reduction from like a 1/50,000 chance of death to a 1/70,000 chance of death), hence it's not enough to move the needle for me.

Do you think the vaccine is vital to ending this pandemic? Vital to ending excessive deaths? Vital for certain segments of the population? Yes. I also believe that anyone of any age and health status should have access to the vaccine if they desire it. However, I think it's clear by now that this pandemic won't "end," it will simply become endemic. And when that happens, which will be sooner rather than later, the status quo cannot be to keep all these mandates and measures in place in perpetuity. That is unacceptable.

Do you have a medically recognised reason for not getting the vaccine? No.

 

[Loki]

Unconstitutional? Impeached? lol


You do realize that mandated vaccines have been a thing for a VERY long time correct? Schools have required them for years and so has the military. There is nothing unconstitutional about any of this.

Never has any vaccine been mandated for private employment. I never had to show my MMR and other vaccine status to secure any job I've had in my career. It is flagrant governmental overreach and I am certain it will be struck down in due time.

 

[funkygunther]

Never has any vaccine been mandated for private employment. I never had to show my MMR and other vaccine status to secure any job I've had in my career. It is flagrant governmental overreach and I am certain it will be struck down in due time.

the employer should send test results instead if the employee isn‘t vaccinated, if it’s the employer’s choice to keep only vaccinated people rather than doing the required testing paperwork then is it governmental overreach?

 

[Punished Miku]

Never has any vaccine been mandated for private employment. I never had to show my MMR and other vaccine status to secure any job I've had in my career. It is flagrant governmental overreach and I am certain it will be struck down in due time.

I've already been mandated to have the flu vaccine for years in health care (private employment).

 

[Nobody_Important]

Never has any vaccine been mandated for private employment. I never had to show my MMR and other vaccine status to secure any job I've had in my career. It is flagrant governmental overreach and I am certain it will be struck down in due time.

That is 100% untrue my mom is a nurse and she is required to get her flu shot by her hospital. And even if it were to be struck down most private businesses will just "strongly encourage" their employees to get vaccinated like they are already doing now. So it will come back to the same thing basically.


People dying by the thousands daily yet we still have people arguing on behalf of the virus and arguing against the implementation of the statistically proven best way to fight it and actively fighting against any larger efforts to put it to use.


Clown world indeed.

 

[Jaysen]

You're the most low-IQ poster in this entire thread, and you have the nerve to talk shit. Risible.



Maybe you need to stop assuming that everyone who objects to the authoritarian, fascist policies being enacted fits into the neat little mental boxes you've made for them. I've listened to Rush Limbaugh maybe 5 times in my whole life, and not once in the past 15+ years. I am a centrist/moderate. To call my analysis of what is happening a "meltdown" is to betray just how far gone you are in terms of being unable to see other perspectives and entertain contrary opinions. Then again, most of society is like that nowadays - they're just split on different sides of most issues. They're inherently partisan and tribal. But I'm not like that to begin with, so none of it makes sense to me and I feel this mentality should be spoken against in the clearest possible terms.



Do you want to get the vaccine? No.

Do you believe what governments and scientists are telling you about the vaccine? Insofar as they are aware? Yes, largely. I don't believe there is any intentional misinformation or lying going on regarding the vaccines' efficacy or known side effects. I simply believe that they can't possibly know the mid- to long-term effects yet. Moreover, the threshold for me to actively DO something is higher than simply demonstrating that there's no harm - there has to be a not-insignificant benefit. And while I do agree that the vaccines confer a benefit, the magnitude of that benefit for folks in my cohort is marginal (absolute risk reduction from like a 1/50,000 chance of death to a 1/70,000 chance of death), hence it's not enough to move the needle for me.

Do you think the vaccine is vital to ending this pandemic? Vital to ending excessive deaths? Vital for certain segments of the population? Yes. I also believe that anyone of any age and health status should have access to the vaccine if they desire it. However, I think it's clear by now that this pandemic won't "end," it will simply become endemic. And when that happens, which will be sooner rather than later, the status quo cannot be to keep all these mandates and measures in place in perpetuity. That is unacceptable.

Do you have a medically recognised reason for not getting the vaccine? No.

The most hilariously ironic post ever.

 

[Thaedolus]

Maybe you need to stop assuming that everyone who objects to the authoritarian, fascist policies being enacted fits into the neat little mental boxes you've made for them. I've listened to Rush Limbaugh maybe 5 times in my whole life, and not once in the past 15+ years. I am a centrist/moderate. To call my analysis of what is happening a "meltdown" is to betray just how far gone you are in terms of being unable to see other perspectives and entertain contrary opinions. Then again, most of society is like that nowadays - they're just split on different sides of most issues. They're inherently partisan and tribal. But I'm not like that to begin with, so none of it makes sense to me and I feel this mentality should be spoken against in the clearest possible terms.

The premise of your comment is false. You're not objecting to authoritarian, fascist policies, and these hyperbolic and extreme terms you're using to describe the policies are mirroring exactly what the extreme right wing is saying. You're also consistently downplaying the impact of the virus on society (hundreds of thousands of deaths, millions of long haul cases, people like me having to keep their kids in quarantine because of potential exposure, etc.) while overplaying your hand on any sort of mandates. That's why I'm assuming you must be listening to the chucklefucks that are stomping their feet and throwing a hissy over this.

The federal requirements I believe will be clearly within the president's purview and will stand. And I see nothing wrong with that. The OSHA stuff I'm not so sure about, I haven't seen a detailed legal breakdown of what that law (which has been around since Nixon) allows. If it's blatantly illegal, I imagine the courts would issue a stay until it's sorted out. But you have gone totally off the rails demanding impeachment and acting like this is a fascist takeover when impeachment is certainly not called for and the legality is, at best, debatable. If respectable legal minds that I listen to (mostly conservatives, btw) make the case that this is clearly illegal, then I'll get on board with the courts shutting it down. I'm undecided until someone who I know knows what they're talking about weighs in, but I haven't seen anyone acting like this is some insane move toward fascism.

Also, are you even American? I only ask because of some of your spelling

 

[Ichabod]

If anyone needs to see where this "for the greater good," overreach is heading, take a look at what's happening right now in Australia. This train isn't stopping once we reach some nebulous covid goal. If watching how things have progressed since "2 weeks to flatten the curve," hasn't opened your eyes, I'm not sure anything will.

From what I've seen, only one side has been conditioned to actively dehumanize, antagonize, and cheer at the marginalization of their fellow Americans en masse. Today they're ok with people losing jobs and, subsequently, their ability to provide for their families. What will be tolerated in the months to come?

"Just comply and get the shot," is not carte blanche for trampling unalienable rights. If you think it is, your civil liberties are living on borrowed time.

 

[dcll]

I assume the aclu has lawsuits in the works as I type this

 

[Loki]

the employer should send test results instead if the employee isn‘t vaccinated, if it’s the employer’s choice to keep only vaccinated people rather than doing the required testing paperwork then is it governmental overreach?

I think everyone knows that requiring weekly testing (at full expense to the employee, because I am certain that the next move - if it's not so already - will be that health insurance companies won't cover the testing) is an undue financial burden. What would that cost? I'm not even sure, but I imagine upwards of $60/week, if not > $100/week. Hence it is simply a once-removed form of coercion.

 

[Punished Miku]

I assume the aclu has lawsuits in the works as I type this

Doubtful. They're not the same ACLU as they were in the 90s. They pretty much go along with mainstream Dem opinion on things these days.

 

[Nobody_Important]

If anyone needs to see where this "for the greater good," overreach is heading, take a look at what's happening right now in Australia. This train isn't stopping once we reach some nebulous covid goal. If watching how things have progressed since "2 weeks to flatten the curve," hasn't opened your eyes, I'm not sure anything will.

From what I've seen, only one side has been conditioned to actively dehumanize, antagonize, and cheer at the marginalization of their fellow Americans en masse. Today they're ok with people losing jobs and, subsequently, their ability to provide for their families. What will be tolerated in the months to come?

"Just comply and get the shot," is not carte blanche for trampling unalienable rights. If you think it is, your civil liberties are living on borrowed time.

Conspiracy nonsense. The same exact line of argument was used last year when the lockdowns happened in the US. Nutcases in the politics section said it was the end of democracy and that the US would descend into dictatorship etc etc. And here we are over a year later and our democracy is still functioning just fine. Having people get a safe and proven vaccine that can literally save their lives and the lives of those around them in the middle of a deadly pandemic is not even REMOTELY comparable to an actual assault on civil liberties like freedom of speech or the right to vote.


Fear mongering nonsense like that is why we are in the situation in the first place.

 

[Loki]

I assume the aclu has lawsuits in the works as I type this

You'd be wrong. The ACLU recently has come out in support of all sorts of vaxx and other mandates. This is because they are partisan (read: tribal) and not truly concerned about protecting civil liberties.

 

[RAÏSanÏa]

How to help your child cope with pandemic-related stressors that may interrupt school

With some eight million children across Canada heading back to school -- some who haven't been in the classroom for up to five months or longer -- experts are suggesting parents prepare their kids with coping strategies to deal with ongoing pandemic-related stressors that may interrupt their...

www.ctvnews.ca

The parents of five-year-old Zara and two-year-old Marley have turned to yoga to counter the signs of distress the girls developed during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Since taking up yoga, either doing virtual classes or in-person when permitted, Moniz's daughters have told her that it makes them feel stronger and happier.

"There's lots of changes and they need tools navigate," Moniz said. "They are not resilient just because they're resilient; they're resilient because we teach them tools."

"I have two sons myself and I have seen a big change in them over the past year and a half, but I think as long as we arm them with these tools, they'll be able to thrive," Faber explained.
Faber said she teaches kids a breathing technique comprised of three, belly breaths that helps them to calm down in a stressful situation.

When it comes to helping kids manage stress, Short said it is important for parents to first manage their own anxieties.
"Hard to do, but try to take time to nourish your own spirit in the ways that are meaningful for you," Short said. "Studies show that when parents feel more steady, their children feel more steady."

She said parents also need to "really listen" to their child's fears.

"Provide factual information to replace worry thoughts that may not be true. Reassure them and inspire confidence," Short said.

Body and breath for mindfulness and calm.
This early awareness training could have later benefits for potential Mars colonists.

 

[Loki]

I've already been mandated to have the flu vaccine for years in health care (private employment).

Health care is a different case due to the exposure, and the risk of exposure to already ill/compromised people who may be in the hospital. I was clearly speaking of private non-healthcare employment.

 

[Punished Miku]

If anyone needs to see where this "for the greater good," overreach is heading, take a look at what's happening right now in Australia. This train isn't stopping once we reach some nebulous covid goal. If watching how things have progressed since "2 weeks to flatten the curve," hasn't opened your eyes, I'm not sure anything will.

From what I've seen, only one side has been conditioned to actively dehumanize, antagonize, and cheer at the marginalization of their fellow Americans en masse. Today they're ok with people losing jobs and, subsequently, their ability to provide for their families. What will be tolerated in the months to come?

"Just comply and get the shot," is not carte blanche for trampling unalienable rights. If you think it is, your civil liberties are living on borrowed time.

There's some evidence of lockdown overreach in California, but honestly I don't see this happening. I think our leaders care more about getting everyone back to work and off unemployment than they care about spending money on a welfare state to maintain strong lockdowns over single digit cases. They're almost total opposites in terms of response honestly when you think about it. The lockdowns ended a long time ago, and both parties are pushing to reopen schools. Concerts aren't even prohibited right now.

 

[funkygunther]

I think everyone knows that requiring weekly testing (at full expense to the employee, because I am certain that the next move - if it's not so already - will be that health insurance companies won't cover the testing) is an undue financial burden. What would that cost? I'm not even sure, but I imagine upwards of $60/week, if not > $100/week. Hence it is simply a once-removed form of coercion.

that’s a lot of assumptions for who pays for it and not an answer to the question, anyway of course it’s coercion, that’s the point as there is no do-nothing scenario with this proposed legislation, either vaccinate or test but it’s at the employer‘s discretion

 

[Punished Miku]

Health care is a different case due to the exposure, and the risk of exposure to already ill/compromised people who may be in the hospital. I was clearly speaking of private non-healthcare employment.

Health care mandates makes sense in terms of just logic, and science. But in terms of constitutional rights, it's no different. There's no clause that makes it so I would have less rights than you would just because I work in healthcare - that I'm aware of anyway.

If you agree that it makes sense for me to be mandated to get a flu shot, think through why that makes sense to you? That's basically the exact same reasoning they're using for COVID vaccines. The only real difference is that the public at large is now in a much more dire situation than a few years ago because of the pandemic. That's really all that's changed.

How do you feel about public schools mandating multiple vaccines for children to get an education? Let your defenses down for a second and just think about it. That's all I'm saying.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Health care is a different case due to the exposure, and the risk of exposure to already ill/compromised people who may be in the hospital. I was clearly speaking of private non-healthcare employment.

"Oh that was different...." lol good one



It's a hospital (private business) requiring doctors, nurses, and support staff (their employees) to get certain vaccines in order to protect themselves and their patients (their customers).


That sounds.....familiar........hmmm.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

These are people’s lives man…not a podium you can use for your arguments. Gross. That’s someone’s mother or relative, regardless of what you think of her.

Idiots deserve no sympathy. That's someone's mother? Maybe. That's also someone's piece of shit mother. Just being human doesn't entitle you to fair treatment, when your self-published actions demonstrate a complete and utter lack of human decency. There's no problem with shunning and mocking the assholes of society, which is very much the subclass that this woman belongs to. If she'd worn a real mask, and acted responsibly, and still managed to get sick, there'd be an outpouring of sympathy for her. Masks are foolproof. But acting the fool, and getting got? She can fuck right off.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

So if somebody ends up getting the vaccine even if they don't want to cuz they feel forced due to social shaming, job security, having access to basic things everyone is used to having their entire lives, etc, are they still "anti-vaxxers" ?

This term is fucking retarded and paints everyone with the same brush but why should I expect any better from people who are desperately looking for a scapegoat?

You do know that people (fuck knows how many) have gotten the vaccine but they did not want to? And no just cuz they're not interested in a vaccine it doesn't mean they're a Trump supporting, MAGA hat wearing, flat earther "science denier". I know several people who got the vaccine cuz they felt forced to, and I might be in that same camp soon too. Yeah, I might lose my job if I don't get the fucking vaccine, what a choice I have!

So if I get the vaccine but still think the global reaction is way overboard and vaccine passports are complete horse shit am I still an "anti vaxxer" "science denier" ?

Do I automatically become one of the good guys if I get vaxxed? Am I allowed to question this shit after getting vaxxed?

This with us or against us bullshit is tired as fuck.

If only people fought the virus as hard as they fought people trying to fight the virus.

I forget what show I saw it on today, but a comedian made a really good point. In outbreak movies, you don't see the hero running around trying to convince people to take a vaccine. Vaxxers and anti-vaxxers alike watch on hoping for the hero to find the cure. We cheer when one is found and even when it's released as an aerosol. Why? We all understand that it's about getting as many people immunized as possible, in order to slow the spread. We can all understand this basic principle in fiction. So what happens in real life? People question the purpose in getting immunized, and fabricate all orders of non-sensical reasons why it shouldn't be mandated for everyone to get cured.

I sympathize with the random weirdos who watch the hero release an aerosol version of a vaccine or antidote, and yells at his/her TV, "You're infringing on their personal liberties, you monster!" At least those people actually believe in their own bullshit.

 

[FunkMiller]

To me an "anti-vaxxer" is someone who vehemently refuses to ever get the vaccine/thinks it's outright dangerous or has wild theories about it.

No. An anti-vaxxer is someone who has to be dragged kicking and screaming to get the vaccine, and only when they do it out of pure self interest.

 

[HawksWinStanley]

I think everyone knows that requiring weekly testing (at full expense to the employee, because I am certain that the next move - if it's not so already - will be that health insurance companies won't cover the testing) is an undue financial burden. What would that cost? I'm not even sure, but I imagine upwards of $60/week, if not > $100/week. Hence it is simply a once-removed form of coercion.

I'd be curious to see a study of the costs of weekly testing compared to the cost of losing employees to death and sick time for either themselves or their kids. Texas and Florida are absolute shit shows right now, with entire schools closing. Those parents then have to figure out what to do with those thousands of kids. I can't imagine employers are fairing well regardless right now. Like I said, I'd have to see the numbers but I'd much rather shell out for weekly tests for a while if it meant not losing people for weeks at a time.

 

[Nobody_Important]

L Loki read this

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

www.politico.com

In fact anyone in here who thinks this mandate is going to be immediately struck down in the courts needs to read this.

 

[Rentahamster]

So if somebody ends up getting the vaccine even if they don't want to cuz they feel forced due to social shaming, job security, having access to basic things everyone is used to having their entire lives, etc, are they still "anti-vaxxers" ?

...

I know several people who got the vaccine cuz they felt forced to, and I might be in that same camp soon too.

...

This with us or against us bullshit is tired as fuck.

Facts don't care about your feelings. National security doesn't get overruled by feelings.

So if I get the vaccine but still think the global reaction is way overboard and vaccine passports are complete horse shit am I still an "anti vaxxer" "science denier" ?

It depends on the reason why you don't want to get it.

Yeah, I might lose my job if I don't get the fucking vaccine, what a choice I have!

Don't only think about yourself. Please think about the lack of choice the rest of society has, since it would be forced to work in close proximity to an unvaccinated disease vector and health hazard if you didn't get vaccinated.

You do know that people (fuck knows how many) have gotten the vaccine but they did not want to? And no just cuz they're not interested in a vaccine it doesn't mean they're a Trump supporting, MAGA hat wearing, flat earther "science denier".

That seems obvious. There's plenty of other reasons why someone wouldn't be interested in these vaccines. Almost all of them are still bad reasons.

[/QUOTE]

Do I automatically become one of the good guys if I get vaxxed?

Not necessarily. Vaccination status doesn't separate "good guys" from "bad guys". Don't think of this in such a tribal nature. Facts not feelings.

If you're vaccinated, the only thing you become is "vaccinated", and a less of a health hazard to yourself and to the people around you.

Am I allowed to question this shit after getting vaxxed?

You can question anything.

 

[Petey-o]

Reminder that anti-vaxxers are turbo retardo

 

[terintamel]

L Loki read this

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

www.politico.com

In fact anyone in here who thinks this mandate is going to be immediately struck down in the courts needs to read this.

Using that as an example I would happily pay a one time penalty to avoid losing my job or being forced to get vaccinated. However that is not what is being proposed. What is being proposed is possibly losing my livelihood or being relegated to a subclass of society unless I get an irreversible medical procedure.

What I am opposed to is the federal government being the enactor and ones forcing this. That is an overreach of their power, and using OSHA to do it seems questionable at best as I cannot find anything prior in OSHA rules that has anything to do with the forcing of a medical procedure on a business or employee.

This is the slippery slope that most seem willing to let slide because they look at the immediate outcome, but fail to see what pandora's box this opens in the future. If the federal government can use OSHA to force medical procedures then there is no limit to what they can force under the guise of saftey.

 

[Thaedolus]

L Loki read this

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

www.politico.com

In fact anyone in here who thinks this mandate is going to be immediately struck down in the courts needs to read this.

“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” read the majority opinion. “On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy.”

Jesus Christ the Supreme Court of 1904 was a bunch of Hitlers.

Question to the people losing their shit over the EOs: what if instead of the "authoritarian state" enforcing the mandates we just let private citizens sue the unvaccinated for $10,000 every time they go in public?

 

[MiguelItUp]

Using that as an example I would happily pay a one time penalty to avoid losing my job or being forced to get vaccinated. However that is not what is being proposed. What is being proposed is possibly losing my livelihood or being relegated to a subclass of society unless I get an irreversible medical procedure.

What I am opposed to is the federal government being the enactor and ones forcing this. That is an overreach of their power, and using OSHA to do it seems questionable at best as I cannot find anything prior in OSHA rules that has anything to do with the forcing of a medical procedure on a business or employee.

This is the slippery slope that most seem willing to let slide because they look at the immediate outcome, but fail to see what pandora's box this opens in the future. If the federal government can use OSHA to force medical procedures then there is no limit to what they can force under the guise of saftey.

That I'm assuming accidental quote broke me, lmao. I was so confused!

 

[Cracklox]

If anyone needs to see where this "for the greater good," overreach is heading, take a look at what's happening right now in Australia. This train isn't stopping once we reach some nebulous covid goal. If watching how things have progressed since "2 weeks to flatten the curve," hasn't opened your eyes, I'm not sure anything will.

As someone just completing day 224 locked down in Melbourne, Australia I can attest.

In 18 months the goalposts shifted from '2 weeks to flatten the curve' to 'once we get to 70% double jabbed we'll open up. Oh and scan this QR code everywhere you go.'. And of course that's with the caveat that the vaccinated will have a far easier time living life, with being able to go to restaurants etc without any dickery involved. The narrative to get covid passports across the line here is already being setup by the msm and politicians, and if that goes ahead it will be an absolute shit show. More so then what its been.

As for the vaccine itself, I guess alot of people in here would throw their 'antivaxxer' label out at me, but the truth is I'm more hesitant. I don't like the level of coercion involved and the tribalism its created (see: this thread) plus i'm pretty fucking fit and healthy right now. Probably fitter then I've been since my early 20's (which was a while ago now). So I think the risk of being royally fucked up by the virus are pretty minuscule. I've said from the start of this thing, that if young and healthy people start dying at a similar rate to the elderly and frail, then I'll take it seriously. Hasn't happened, despite the msm loving to drum up rare cases where it does.

Anyway, its likely at some point I'll have to get vaxxed for work or something, but the bigger concern is being able to visit my mom, who's in aged care. They already made flu shots compulsory to visit last year (which i went and did. I'm such an antivaxxer...) and I'm pretty certain they'll make the covid vaccine mandatory too soon enough. At that point I'll probably have to suck it up.

 

[dcll]

Doubtful. They're not the same ACLU as they were in the 90s. They pretty much go along with mainstream Dem opinion on things these days.

I was joking about the aclu

 

[Rentahamster]

One other point that others are making is that being unvaccinated somehow means that you are WILLFULLY putting others at risk. That’s a bit hyperbolic, as even the vaccinated carry a probability of transmissibility. It’s one thing to say possibly that unvaccinated are putting others at risk by consuming ICU beds, etc…. But with the current strain of COVID around, we are all potential transmitters (vaccinated or unvaccinated).

Unvaccinated people transmit the virus and are susceptible to the virus at a much higher level than vaccinated people. It's not hyperbolic to say that unvaccinated people are putting others at risk, regardless of whether it's willful or not. We are all potential transmitters but that potential goes drastically down the more people are vaccinated. You can't only conceptualize this on an individual risk level. You have to also think about this on a population level too.

Covid 19 Thread: [no bitching about masks of Fauci edition]

Not sure how many people die from the flu where you are, but in the USA only 740 people died from the chinavirus from Mar 2020 - Mar 2021 with no comorbidities. This is according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/pdf/21_0123.pdf (chart on page 9) So please, do explain exactly how...

www.neogaf.com

We spend time berating Zoro mask types, but won’t talk about football stadiums at near-capacity.

Yes we do.

I would argue THAT could be willfully putting others at risk

When a large chunk of the attendees are unvaccinated, yes, that does put a lot of people at risk. If 100% of those people were vaccinated, the risk would be much less. See lollapalooza 2021 for a real world example.

 

[Nobody_Important]

Using that as an example I would happily pay a one time penalty to avoid losing my job or being forced to get vaccinated. However that is not what is being proposed. What is being proposed is possibly losing my livelihood or being relegated to a subclass of society unless I get an irreversible medical procedure.

What I am opposed to is the federal government being the enactor and ones forcing this. That is an overreach of their power, and using OSHA to do it seems questionable at best as I cannot find anything prior in OSHA rules that has anything to do with the forcing of a medical procedure on a business or employee.

This is the slippery slope that most seem willing to let slide because they look at the immediate outcome, but fail to see what pandora's box this opens in the future. If the federal government can use OSHA to force medical procedures then there is no limit to what they can force under the guise of saftey.

Stop calling it a procedure like they are requiring a surgery. It's a fucking vaccine shot. Not a lobotomy.