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During Epic Apple case, Microsoft lawyer says they've never made a profit selling Xbox consoles

kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
(thanks mods mods please edit title to fix my typo, meant to write "any xboxes" my bad lol)

Pretty crazy admission in court that they do not make any money from hardware sales, apparently ever.

Also no plans to change their 30% cut on Xbox console store.



1ZDBnWd.jpg
hroKWWs.jpg




edit - For comparison, Sony said the PS4 hardware became profitable per unit sold in Spring 2014.

www.polygon.com

Sony CEO Kaz Hirai says PS4 is already profitable

The PlayStation 4 is already profitable for Sony on a hardware unit basis, president and CEO Kazuo Hirai announced during its corporate strategy meeting this week. "It's been a hugely successful...
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com

0R4WoIs.jpg
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Man I agree with MS heere... that last tweet is what we are talking here for years.

Edit - Let's share the tweet.



Perfection.

Windows was created in a Open Platform so it should continue well following the rules of that Open Platform... the fact the same Windows in the ARM platform is a closed system tells you a lot.

Closed Platforms should not act like Open Platforms... ever... Closed Platforms has a owner and that owner do what he things better for it business and consumers... if you don't like it just don't buy it... you have others Closed Platforms or Open Platforms that probably can make you happy.
 
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Jigsaah

Jigsaah

Gold Member
I mean, they are still making profit though...so in the end, who cares where it comes from?

If anything, this kinda thwarts the whole idea of Xbox having no games. They have games, they sell a lot of them apparently, cuz they get jack shit from hardware.
 
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R

reksveks

Member


though don't think it would be enough for some people. I am more interested in the fact that they accidently got shadow kicked off the app store but you know, different interests
 
Dave_at_Home

Dave_at_Home

Member
Xbox greatest strength has always been Microsoft's deep pockets and I think they're flexing that this generation more than any other. There's no way in hell they'd survive against Sony otherwise. I see this as a net positive at the end of the day. Nintendo has not directly competed with Sony since the Gamecube days. Despite all the fanboy bullshit, I'm glad Xbox is still around to keep Sony on their toes and vice versa. We can post stuff on forums about all the bullshit either company pulls, but without one of them, we'd have to swallow a whole lot more.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
Woah
Is this after R&D is added into the equation as well?
Sounds brutal. EPIC needs to back off. I don’t want MS to stop making consoles.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Bladed Thesis said:
E0pDRABXoAAMEl_


It's not unheard of in the console business.

For example, Sony also reports a loss on hardware. -827m Gross Profit in 2019. -1.702b Operating Profit in 2019 on Hardware.
Click to expand...
You gotta assume Sony and Nintendo make some profits on hardware eventually.

Such a crazy contrast in profits between console hardware and PC hardware (like Nvidia's GPUs, etc.)
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
Bladed Thesis said:
E0pDRABXoAAMEl_


It's not unheard of in the console business.

For example, Sony also reports a loss on hardware. -827m Gross Profit in 2019. -1.702b Operating Profit in 2019 on Hardware.
Click to expand...
It includes PS5 R&D that year and that is massive.

PS4 started to profit on hardwarae around April/May 2014.

www.polygon.com

Sony CEO Kaz Hirai says PS4 is already profitable

The PlayStation 4 is already profitable for Sony on a hardware unit basis, president and CEO Kazuo Hirai announced during its corporate strategy meeting this week. "It's been a hugely successful...
www.polygon.com www.polygon.com

"The PlayStation 4 is already profitable for Sony on a hardware unit basis, president and CEO Kazuo Hirai announced during its corporate strategy meeting this week."
 
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Dr Bass

Dr Bass

Member
ethomaz said:
Man I agree with MS heere... that last tweet is what we are talking here for years.

Edit - Let's share the tweet.



Perfection.

Windows was created in a Open Platform so it should continue well following the rules of that Open Platform... the fact the same Windows in the ARM platform is a closed system tells you a lot.

Closed Platforms should not act like Open Platforms... ever... Closed Platforms has a owner and that owner do what he things better for it business and consumers... if you don't like it just don't buy it... you have others Closed Platforms or Open Platforms that probably can make you happy.
Click to expand...

Man you still don't get it. You are simply wrong dude.

Yeah iOS started out "closed" but thats simply because of the nature of how tiny the market was. There are two key things here. There was no way to "close" Windows or Mac like iOS and Android on their inception. They wanted people working on software for their hardware and distributing them on discs, and in stores etc etc. It was only the advent of the internet that allowed Apple to do what it has obviously.

Apple makes a MASSIVE profit on each phone. The phone sustains itself, much like ... Windows licensing! And Mac computers!

The second aspect is "The windows world [has] lots of scenarios that people use these devices for."

Sorta like ... iOS and Android.

Again, this point is being made over and over. Too many businesses now depend on software distribution on mobile devices for their very survival. You are letting Apple and Google skim 30%(!) off the top for doing absolutely nothing other than providing a download link, and on top of that able to decide if those companies software has a right to even exist. Absurd!

That is the point. iOS has changed from a tiny player in a luxury market to a daily necessity (along with Android) that is literally crucial to the fabric of our global economy. And Apple should have control of ALL software that is allowed to exist? You're completely insane if you believe that. I don't get why you are so pro Apple on this one. The biggest corporation on the planet, with the ability to destroy thousands of businesses on a whim. That's your stance?

Edit: I can see you "laughed" at this Ethomaz, but I suggest you bring some actual substance to this instead of repeating the word "closed" over and over. That the very issue. Using the complaint as a defense is incredibly stupid. Apparently you think Apple should have total control over a giant portion of all consumer focused software and that Apple has a right to 30% of all businesses revenue. That's brilliant stuff guy.
 
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Zeroing

Zeroing

Banned
ahah this is not going as Apple expected. You know the public opinion of Apple might change because Apple makes profit at hardware and at the store… and the other “evil” multimillion company does not…

this just shows how Apple mentality of being “small” and their marketing of being “good” will backfire.
 
dem

dem

Member
This hardly matters to the case…

Nintendo makes money on hardware and still takes 30%

Epic was the wrong company to come at Apple. There are cases to be made.. but this isn’t one.
 
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R

reksveks

Member
ethomaz said:
Windows was created in a Open Platform so it should continue well following the rules of that Open Platform... the fact the same Windows in the ARM platform is a closed system tells you a lot.
Click to expand...
Windows on ARM is closed in what way? You thinking about Windows S mode?

I would like to add the market doesn't solve for all problems based off just user choice. See Google and Facebook.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
LisaMariaMartin said:
So? Pretty sure Sony doesn't earn money from pure hardware sales either.
Click to expand...
On PS4 they didn't in first well 6 months... after that they have profit in each hardware unit sold.
MS suffered with no profit on Xbox One because it was a expensive machine that had to match PS4 price point... so it was fated to always be in the loss with the actual price going way lower PS4 price point.
 
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ethomaz

ethomaz

Banned
reksveks said:
Windows on ARM is closed in what way? You thinking about Windows S mode?
Click to expand...
Maybe it changed? But until 2017 it was closed.
I read something that MS is near to emulate x64 on ARM (Windows Preview Program) so it can open the platform.

Windows Desktop: Open on Intel, Closed on ARM​

The Windows desktop is the most popular open computing platform among average computer users, and Windows’ open nature has allowed Windows to be a platform for innovation. No one needed to ask Microsoft for permission to distribute Windows desktop software — they could write their own software and distribute it directly to users.

On standard Intel x86 editions of Windows 8, the Windows desktop is still an open platform. You can install anything you want on it. Microsoft has no say.

On ARM Windows RT machines, the Windows desktop is now a closed platform. Only applications developed by Microsoft are allowed on Windows RT’s desktop. Current rumors suggest that Microsoft is working on creating a version of Microsoft Outlook for Windows RT. Microsoft is the only company allowed to create and distribute new applications for Windows RT’s desktop. People who want new desktop applications (such as an email client) for the Windows RT desktop have to ask Microsoft for them.
Click to expand...
www.howtogeek.com

Which Computing Platforms Are Open, and Which Are Closed?

The last few years have seen the rise of closed platforms -- operating systems that only allow you to install software approved by the operating system's developer.
www.howtogeek.com www.howtogeek.com
 
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H

Hitchyhero

Banned
I thought it was known industry wide that consoles tend to make little to no profit but they make that back in licensing and software sales.

It's only towards the latter end of the consoles lifecylce does the console start generating a profit.

The only exception to this is Nintendo that produces underpowered hardware and charges a premium for it.
 
AV

AV

We ain't outta here in ten minutes, we won't need no rocket to fly through space
Anyone surprised? Really? Modern consoles are just cheap-as-dirt PCs with limited functionality. The hardware in them is - generally - pretty insane for the price point given that you almost certainly already own a TV to hook it up to.
 
Zeroing

Zeroing

Banned
EverydayBeast said:
Microsoft thinks it’s their duty to sell consoles.
Click to expand...
Nah they make them for fun! ;)

fact is Xbox one was trying to compete with the Apple TV lol

And now MS sides with Epic against Apple…

But Apple deserves to take a beating, for years they though and released this idea that they (Apple) were better than any other company when in fact they are the same or worse…
 
GHG

GHG

Member
These console manufacturers most likely can't wait for the day when streaming becomes viable and they won't need to worry about making losses on hardware being sold to end users.

If this isn't the last generation then the next one almost certainly will be.

There will come a time when the only option to play new games on local hardware will be through PC gaming.
 
N

NickFire

Member
GHG said:
These console manufacturers most likely can't wait for the day when streaming becomes viable and they won't need to worry about making losses on hardware being sold to end users.

If this isn't the last generation then the next one almost certainly will be.

There will come a time when the only option to play new games on local hardware will be through PC gaming.
Click to expand...
Dude, its been less than 6 months since this generation (that was never supposed to happen 10 years ago) started. Way too soon to start predicting when consoles die again. :messenger_grinning_smiling:
 
Salty Popsicle

Salty Popsicle

Banned
Microsoft is a software company. They started selling consoles two decades ago so that people would become engrossed in their ecosystem and purchase games, DLC, and microtransactions through their online marketplace. The console itself is just a means to an end, and if they have to lose a little money on each sale or break-even, then that's worth the investment. Makes the whole "Company A sold more consoles than Company B" argument so stupid.
 
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