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If Playstation or Xbox cannot contact an PSN/XBL activation server or equivalent, they will be bricks in the future (highly unlikely)
- Thread starter Craig of War
- Start date
- Drama
Zeroing
Banned
First, they should care because of the damaging news does to a brand. Any company would try to fix it as soon as possible. If they don’t these news will continue. Do I think it’s something for all the drama it caused? Nah
second, horse? Is it because of my teeth?
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
If PSN is gone, you're fucked anyway! Same as if XBL is gone, or any online service.
The objective reality is that in such an instance there'll also be noone left to maintain security on the system, in which case a firmware hack can simply be installed via USB.
Not to mention I don't believe its been proven that simply redirecting the check-in call (via a proxy) to any old time-server wouldn't accomplish the re-sync process sufficiently to restore function.
FatKingBallman
Banned
It is anti consumer like you trying to paint out with CR battery
Guess what, Switch also has a CR battery, and no one cares from Nintendo fans, i don't care. Don't care for PS5, don't care for Xbox because their required online for the initial startup. But looks like, you Xbox fans, care about PS5 and his CR battery, but for some reason you don't care about CR battery in Switch. Wonder why
Xbox FUD brigade on their roll again.
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The Cartographer
Member
People are actually excusing this shit instead of asking Sony to fix this worthless shit...
Expected behavior but still tragic to witness.
Expected behavior but still tragic to witness.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is ironic that people shouting the loudest about warriors not understanding the issue are not understanding the issue and trying to spread as much paranoia and fear as they can
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Nobody is saying that Sony should not patch this out especialy before shutting down the console license servers for PSN, but making it seem like an impending doom scenario (the fact that Switch is not a target is good for thought for another day) is exaggeration built for yet another concern drama thread which was expected and as entertaining and full of hyperbole and proof free as I imagined it.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Sure it adds up
(am I surprised you are not bringing proof to how it does it? Not really… it kind of goes along with the low burden of proof in general for these kind of concern threads), circumstantial evidence with non proved links to the proof you claim add up to actual proof.
That this was another attempt by some to add powder to the PS5 FUD cannons was clear already even without that…
Ah, an ad hominem is the best salad dressing for a meal celebrating a concern salad backed with circumstantial evidence and lots of what if’s.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yep. But to me the ignorance around what's actually happening and why is even worse.
These people seem to have zero understanding that electronics have no sense of real-world time, and therefore need to establish a point of reference to know when and how much time has passed between internal and external events in systems that require synchrony with external networks and systems.
Nankatsu
Gold Member
Ass of Can Whooping
Member
LOL some people are trying whatever they can
I would be far more concerned about what happens to my digital games if my account gets hacked or banned than what might happen if PSN is no more in a distant future and the CMOS battery is out of charge after 10 years.
Not to mention that nothing lasts forever, most consoles don't even outlive the battery, which is what happens with PCs and motherboards as well.
I would be far more concerned about what happens to my digital games if my account gets hacked or banned than what might happen if PSN is no more in a distant future and the CMOS battery is out of charge after 10 years.
Not to mention that nothing lasts forever, most consoles don't even outlive the battery, which is what happens with PCs and motherboards as well.
This assumption is faulty. According to what one reads, it already affects a small number of PS4 owners. That puts us in an 8+ year timeframe. I for instance like to disconnect my devices from power, this stresses the CMOS battery more. So if you do that, or you just put your console in the locker and take it out after a few years, the risk of being affected is significantly higher. Something that is not uncommon, especially with a generation change or upgrade. However, there are numerous solutions Sony could apply to solve this. But they simply won't do that without a public debate and corresponding pressure, including media coverage. I think some people would be really upset if they couldn't use their Nintendo 64, GameCube, PlayStation 2/3, Xbox (360) (and so on) today just because of manufacturer's poor and disproportionate drm measures.IF
Sony don't release firmware
AND
PSN is no longer working
THEN
in 10-15 years time
MAYBE
it will be a problem?
Gimme a shout in 15 years to see if I care
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Right now its not an issue as all you need do is buy a stock CR2032 button cell and either stick it in yourself or get someone else to do it for you. Reconnect to the internet and you are good for another decade.
The reality is that the mechanical hard drives in these systems have shorter service lives than the battery does!
cormack12
Gold Member
The inner workings have already been explored. The consoles make an api call using https. In that call they use three things for authentication. They use
encrypted hardcoded username
encrypted hardcoded password
a console IDPS or PS4 equivalent
They make their api call to an address on the playstation.net domain here: https://SCEI-0.auth.np.ac.playstation.net/nav/auth (though the SCEI-0 part is probably a round robin or load balanced response as the auth is a wildcard)
This just looks like an auth endpoint before being allowed to call any other api routes - route protection basically.
What does this mean?
As long as Sony keep a listener on the wildcard responding to these requests there is no issue. The resources needed are minute for this. If for some strange reason they changed the address for the auth, it would be pushed down via custom name server options probably or by load balanced routing/CNAME etc. api routes can even be deprecated. This is as probably as big of an issue as moving FSMO or time servers across technical infrastructure in any environment (i.e. not very).
If anything, this should calm people down because they are flighting the same mechanism through various iterations of hardware and generations prove that Sony are not changing this. So the choice of headline could be
PS5 also could suffer the same fate as PS3/PS4 with CMOS (or)
PS5 proves Sony are using the same authentication methods across generations which are backwards compatible.
Guess which will get clicks and fanboys knickers wet?
encrypted hardcoded username
encrypted hardcoded password
a console IDPS or PS4 equivalent
They make their api call to an address on the playstation.net domain here: https://SCEI-0.auth.np.ac.playstation.net/nav/auth (though the SCEI-0 part is probably a round robin or load balanced response as the auth is a wildcard)
This just looks like an auth endpoint before being allowed to call any other api routes - route protection basically.
What does this mean?
As long as Sony keep a listener on the wildcard responding to these requests there is no issue. The resources needed are minute for this. If for some strange reason they changed the address for the auth, it would be pushed down via custom name server options probably or by load balanced routing/CNAME etc. api routes can even be deprecated. This is as probably as big of an issue as moving FSMO or time servers across technical infrastructure in any environment (i.e. not very).
If anything, this should calm people down because they are flighting the same mechanism through various iterations of hardware and generations prove that Sony are not changing this. So the choice of headline could be
PS5 also could suffer the same fate as PS3/PS4 with CMOS (or)
PS5 proves Sony are using the same authentication methods across generations which are backwards compatible.
Guess which will get clicks and fanboys knickers wet?
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McCheese
Member
Companies who go digital-only should pledge to remove all DRM if they ever have to take the servers offline, that seems like a fair expectation and would give more re-assurance for folks buying digital goods.
Back when Steam tried to launch I remember the same argument flying around, you are not buying, you are renting for however long they remain in business. Gabe came out and said that if they ever creased trading, they would release an update to Steam which stripped the DRM out of it. I wonder if push came to shove that would actually happen, or if he would go to legal hell with third-parties if he actually pressed the big red button.
Back when Steam tried to launch I remember the same argument flying around, you are not buying, you are renting for however long they remain in business. Gabe came out and said that if they ever creased trading, they would release an update to Steam which stripped the DRM out of it. I wonder if push came to shove that would actually happen, or if he would go to legal hell with third-parties if he actually pressed the big red button.
Alright
Banned
8 years? Good. That means and end to long gens like the PS360 gen.
Batteries die, it happens.
Yes there are
Based on?
I agree. But those 'some people' are the minority of the now super-minority of hardcore gamers. I love old consoles as much as the next nerd, but the truth is, we are fuck all to this industry nowadays. Fuck all. These companies don't give a shit if you can't play your old games in 10 years time. Sad but true.
And the way that the industry is going? Throw-away experiences are going to be the driving force behind gaming. We've gone from a posh, five-course meal for a select group of people (hardcore gamers) to a Mcdonalds big mac (appeal to everyone) in the space of 2 generations.
In 10 years time, we'll be served gruel and will have no choice but to accept it
Monkeygourmet
Banned
Oh noooo! Preservation!!!
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The inner workings have already been explored. The consoles make an api call using https. In that call they use three things for authentication. They use
encrypted hardcoded username
encrypted hardcoded password
a console IDPS or PS4 equivalent
They make their time call to an address on the playstation.net domain here: https://SCEI-0.auth.np.ac.playstation.net/nav/auth (though the SCEI-0 part is probably a round robin or load balanced response as the auth is a wildcard)
This just looks like an auth endpoint before being allowed to call any other api routes - route protection basically.
What does this mean?
As long as Sony keep a listener on the wildcard responding to these requests there is no issue. The resources needed are minute for this. If for some strange reason they changed the address for the auth, it would be pushed down via custom name server options probably or by load balanced routing/CNAME etc. api routes can even be deprecated. This is as probably as big of an issue as moving FSMO or time servers across technical infrastructure in any environment (i.e. not very).
If anything, this should calm people down because they are flighting the same mechanism through various iterations of hardware and generations prove that Sony are not changing this. So the choice of headline could be
PS5 also could suffer the same fate as PS3/PS4 with CMOS (or)
PS5 proves Sony are using the same authentication methods across generations which are backwards compatible.
Guess which will get clicks and fanboys knickers wet?
If anything this removes support for concern instead of adding to it. Which is why we saying
Wizz-Art
that circumstantial evidence without solid connection to the conclusion you presented did not add as proof.
FranXico
Member
I'm pretty sure Valve can only speak for the software they own themselves, not third parties. So, my guess is that some games would be stripped of DRM, others not.
Kokoloko85
Member
Alot of If’s. FUD.
Calverz
Member
Wtf are you talking about? Where have i complained about this battery issue? Why so defensive? Pretty pathetic.
Wizz-Art
Member
If it's hosted on AWS/Azure or any other third party server Sony needs to pay rent for., I wouldn't be sure at all with how they handle things at PS.If anything this removes support for concern instead of adding to it. Which is why we saying
Keeping PS3 and Vita storefronts up shouldn't also cost a lot, still they decided that come July they're going to shut it off. Probably because they wanna move people that were still on PS3/Vita to a at least a PS4 console where they need to pay for PSN+ if they want to play online.
Keep defending the issue, I'm sure it's for the good of the consumers.
MeatSafeMurderer
Member
You don't need to connect to the internet during initial setup because (unless the battery dies before you set it up for the first time) the internal clock is set from the factory. If the battery dies the internal clock is reset and at that point the system is basically rendered next to useless until you connect to PSN.
Jesus christ your lack of understanding of the topic is something else
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Really? Even offline games that you've purchased and downloaded to the console??
GHG
Member
If nothing else this thread is doing a great job of rounding up all the dunces.
If it's hosted on AWS/Azure or any other third party server Sony needs to pay rent for., I wouldn't be sure at all with how they handle things at PS.
Keeping PS3 and Vita storefronts up shouldn't also cost a lot, still they decided that come July they're going to shut it off. Probably because they wanna move people that were still on PS3/Vita to a at least a PS4 console where they need to pay for PSN+ if they want to play online.
Keep defending the issue, I'm sure it's for the good of the consumers.
The authentication method used for PSN accounts on all consoles (ps3 through to ps5) is identical.
The only way this becomes an issue is if they shut down PSN entirely.
They're not. The memory that keeps your console id and your console clock is powered by the battery even when unplugged. Your digital games are tied to the clock (so that you can play expiring license games offline) eg subscription based games like PSNow or PS+. They are also tied to your primary console id so that you can play games completely offline. If your PS5 loses its identity because your battery is somehow damaged or dead and your console is unplugged too you would need to replace the battery and activate the console so that you can play offline again.
Reality Czar
Banned
I bet if I take apart my microwave it will also stop working.
What date would that be though? That would be stupid. If for whatever reason at some unspecified date in the far future the activation servers plan to be killed then they can issue the update. For now they have license activation for all of their systems still up and running even PS3, Vita and PSP.
FatKingBallman
Banned
First sentence was for you, other part is for other poster, forgot to separate it
Wizz-Art
Member
Nope, I understand just fine. To have a laugh enlighten me.
My point is that with how they handle things at PS not having a problem to shut things off at all and people defending it, I wouldn't trust PS that much.
GHG
Member
So what you're saying in this case is that it's feelings over facts?
When do you think they will be shutting down PSN entirely?
Wizz-Art
Member
If they're smart never and I also think it's unlikely, but my feelings are made up of their actions recently and how they handle stuff like closing storefronts and shutting off servers for games like they did with a first party game like Driveclub. That doesn't give me reasons to trust them with stuff like that, am I wrong with that reasoning?
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alabtrosMyster
Banned
Maybe in 10 years or so.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
The Saturn's battery died every few months and it lost not only the time of day, but all your savesPS5 Slim should have a little door, like the Saturn, for the user to easily replace it:
.The Dreamcast had the same issue with our memory units.
What an horrible design.
That being said, it may be an issue for PS5 de owners in 20 years, PS4 owners maybe at the same time (they share a lot at that level)... Annoying, sure, worth all that drama? It depends how much of a drama queen you are.
GHG
Member
Yes you are because online servers shutting down for games and a store for an older console being taken down are entirely different things to the backbone of an entire online service being shut down.
I'm not happy with them shutting down servers for individual games and them failing to roll the PS3 store into the current interation of their storefront (which covers both the PS4 and PS5) and have discussed that in the topics covering those subjects.
The leap you're making in this topic is that because they've done those things it means they might shut down PSN entirely in the future. Unless you foresee a scenario where playstation completely goes out of business then that's simply not going to happen.
Shelookdlvl18
Banned
I've seen the error of my ways on this issue. It was wrong for me to make this seem like it was a bigger deal than it really is. Despite what some may think, the truth is that I felt the whole thing was a scumbag move by Sony, which is what lead to my rant on the matter.
It is what it is though, and looking at the posts here... This really isn't a big deal. Whether people correctly understand the issue or not, nobody seems to care either way. If Playstation users are happy with it in general, who am I to complain about it for them. Sony fans have taken a beating the last couple of weeks in bad press, the last thing they need is yet another thread telling them how bad their platform is. If they're happy... That's all that matters.
It is what it is though, and looking at the posts here... This really isn't a big deal. Whether people correctly understand the issue or not, nobody seems to care either way. If Playstation users are happy with it in general, who am I to complain about it for them. Sony fans have taken a beating the last couple of weeks in bad press, the last thing they need is yet another thread telling them how bad their platform is. If they're happy... That's all that matters.
Duchess
Member
Wow, the Sony Hate Train is really gathered speed this year, eh? Just imagine imagine how it's going to look once the PS5's big hitters start to arrive.
Sony's pretty much spent 25 years at the top of this business (and looking to continue with the PS5), so no surprise that everyone wants a piece of them these days.
Sony's pretty much spent 25 years at the top of this business (and looking to continue with the PS5), so no surprise that everyone wants a piece of them these days.
Wizz-Art
Member
Of course it's different one from the other and I also think that it's not a very likely thing for them to do as I said in that previous post. Yet, those things I mentioned before overall doesn't strengthen my trust in the PS brand and I wouldn't use definitive terms like 'that's simply not going to happen' because of that but that's just me I guess.
GHG
Member
So which company do you trust?
GHG
Member
If that's the case then it should be none of them.
Airbus Jr
Banned
I always trust Xbox despite them previously tried a draconian Online Only system and Phil Spencer tried to double on XBL subscription forcing Gamepass Ultimate on everyone last year and only backpedall latter on because of the backlash on social media, i trust them they never tried to do something sneaky on me.
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