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Sony has a responsibility to preserve its gaming history | Opinion
- Thread starter DiddyKongRacing69
- Start date
What confuses me about this thought process is that if the user is so concerned about preserving their game history, why wouldn't they hold onto hardware? Like collecting vinyl. That is why physical media has value.
Don't get me wrong, it is a nice feature, and I am surprised Sony isn't trying harder themselves to preserve them because of their rich history. But the RnD costs aren't worth it for a niche feature.
So that is a key reason why remasters and remakes have value, especially when a lot of work, for sale. Both sides get what they want.
Don't get me wrong, it is a nice feature, and I am surprised Sony isn't trying harder themselves to preserve them because of their rich history. But the RnD costs aren't worth it for a niche feature.
So that is a key reason why remasters and remakes have value, especially when a lot of work, for sale. Both sides get what they want.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
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The PS3 was the height of hubris and radical design. They made a mistake and they can't easily fix that generation. Obviously this doesn't excuse ignoring PS1, PS2, Vita and PSP.
Sony could spend some R&D money on modernizing the PS3 cell chip, allowing them to use modern fabrication process, get that chip down on 7MM or 5MM. Release it in a hand held factor and have a huge cheap digital library for people to purchase. But I am sure professionals, smarter than me have run the numbers. There probably isn't profit to be made, or is there?
Current architecture changed everything for easier backwards compatibility.
They could make a PS3 emulator, a professional one. But once again is there a market for this. Without official documentation, hackers have stalled.
Personally a Playstation Legacy hand held for everything prior to PS4, might be pretty cool. All digital with games ranging from $5-$20. Might be a gold mine with network fees etc. A bit more graphic power, ram, better clocks, faster clocks, up scaling. A fresh coat of paint on PS3 era games, might work.. also include the PS1, PS2, Vita and PSP libraries for download. Maybe it works as a netflix type service?
Some treasures to be salvaged for sure.
Sony could spend some R&D money on modernizing the PS3 cell chip, allowing them to use modern fabrication process, get that chip down on 7MM or 5MM. Release it in a hand held factor and have a huge cheap digital library for people to purchase. But I am sure professionals, smarter than me have run the numbers. There probably isn't profit to be made, or is there?
Current architecture changed everything for easier backwards compatibility.
They could make a PS3 emulator, a professional one. But once again is there a market for this. Without official documentation, hackers have stalled.
Personally a Playstation Legacy hand held for everything prior to PS4, might be pretty cool. All digital with games ranging from $5-$20. Might be a gold mine with network fees etc. A bit more graphic power, ram, better clocks, faster clocks, up scaling. A fresh coat of paint on PS3 era games, might work.. also include the PS1, PS2, Vita and PSP libraries for download. Maybe it works as a netflix type service?
Some treasures to be salvaged for sure.
Dream-Knife
Banned
Why the PS5 doesn't via emulation play PS1-3 is beyond me.
It's really weird because when the PS2 came out and was backwards compatible we viewed that as a great strength of PlayStation. I was a Nintendo kid and wished I could play all the games on one system.
Jim Ryan did say this:
It's really weird because when the PS2 came out and was backwards compatible we viewed that as a great strength of PlayStation. I was a Nintendo kid and wished I could play all the games on one system.
Jim Ryan did say this:
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Fox Mulder
Member
If they don’t care, they don’t care. Maybe
leadership in a few years will feel differently.
Their answer to the mini console craze was a half assed ps1 classic and it sold like shit. They gave up on the ps2 games for ps4 which probably also sold like shit. They’ve dabbled in remakes and remaster collections, but they obviously see no reason to invest time and money in backwards compatibility like MS did.
leadership in a few years will feel differently.
Their answer to the mini console craze was a half assed ps1 classic and it sold like shit. They gave up on the ps2 games for ps4 which probably also sold like shit. They’ve dabbled in remakes and remaster collections, but they obviously see no reason to invest time and money in backwards compatibility like MS did.
Kataploom
Gold Member
I don't think so, they only should care about selling... All emotional shinanigans are on the fans. Trying to give "emotional responsability" to companies seems to be very common these days btw.
Of coure, part of what fans have to do is to fight any intent of prohibiting emulation or games backing up.
Of coure, part of what fans have to do is to fight any intent of prohibiting emulation or games backing up.
THEAP99
Banned
Sony's games and ips are their biggest strength and always will be. Therefore it only makes sense that they would try bringing these old experiences back to light on top of new experiences. Whether it be through backwards compatibility, a Remaster or remake, etc.. it would only help them.
Imo I would rather see remakes though so the old games will be up to snuff
Imo I would rather see remakes though so the old games will be up to snuff
ShinraMiddleMananger
Banned
Lets face it, Sony died when pressure sensitive analoge buttons were done away with.
Raekwon26
Member
I mean this is just the height of stupidity right here.
Dr.Morris79
Member
93xfan
Banned
Love the music on that version!
93xfan
Banned
Honestly, it is a concern whether they would put in the effort to get all the PS4 games running. I’d imagine most of the popular games from the PS4 will be patched for PS6, but I could easily see them just making sure 99% of PS5 games play on PS6. Who knows...
SSfox
Member
Hermen clown Hulst and Jimbo Ryan are PC and money fanboys that don't have a long run mindset, they don't care about playstation brand and its legacy, they only care about porting playstation games on PC and get quickly those extra 50 millions dollars, but in the long run because of this shitty strat they will lose billions of $.
My only hope is that they will be fired before it's late, people like Shawn, Andrew and Jack were the true playstation bosses and that were truly passionate about the PS brand with all their heart unlike the 2 other clowns.
My only hope is that they will be fired before it's late, people like Shawn, Andrew and Jack were the true playstation bosses and that were truly passionate about the PS brand with all their heart unlike the 2 other clowns.
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RAIDEN1
Member
Sony don't give a Rat's -Ass about backward compatibility if anyone is looking for evidence, look at their half-baked attempt on the PS4, to get PS2 games on there....some games on there you can't find anywhere else - Ridge Racer- and Streetfighter Alpha collection (which by and large is better than what you got in 2018 according to most of the fans...)
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
For the same reason that Xbox offers less than 40 original Xbox games via B/C; the further you go back the more tangled rights issues become and the less the market value. Also as remasters/remakes get released the newer versions of the same titles tend to be the only versions covered by backwards compatibility; hence the original Xbox version of Halo isn't available via B/C.
Then they got forced to cut B/C from PS3 in order to reduce costs and hardware sales went up, showing that it simply wasn't a sales driver of any significance, although that may have been affected substantially by them shifting millions of PS2's post PS3 launch.
With PS3 B/C on PS4 being a technical nightmare due to the complexity of its internals, Sony remastered pretty much all its top-selling self-owned IP on PS4, and of course these have essentially replaced the originals for consideration.
With these covered, much of what's left is third-party owned/controlled many of which have already been remastered/remade/repackaged already, leaving mainly second-string product left to be revisited.
And then of course there's PSNow which has been offering PS3 era (and previous via reissues/repackages) for several years.
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Sony is beloved by gamers.
Agent X
Member
Backward compatibility throughout the years has had different benefits for different systems, depending on the situation.
For a system like PlayStation 2, it was very important initially when they were going up against the Dreamcast. The PS2's out-of-the-box ability to play PS1 games and DVD videos were compelling reasons to invest in the hardware. Without PS1 games and DVDs, the PS2 game selection at launch looked weak versus the library that the Dreamcast had accumulated at that time.
You could go even further back and look at the Atari 7800, which took this to an even more extreme level. With only 10 7800-specific games released in its first year, it really needed and relied on the 2600 backward compatibility to have any relevancy in the market.
In today's market, you now have digital distribution of games, so games can be saleable for many years. Publishers don't have to worry about the costs of pressing new discs, or where and how to distribute them. Since the games now have extended market life, backward compatibility is practically a necessity in order to keep publishers and developers happy.
This is true. Sony doesn't get a lot of credit for it these days, but back in 2013, when PS4 and Xbox One launched without any form of backward compatibility, Sony actually took a two-pronged approach to solving the problem of having a small lineup of games:
- One approach was for the big studios to create remastered versions of the biggest PS3 retail hits to sell as PS4 games, as you pointed out.
- The other approach was for them to quickly port over many of the downloadable games from PS3/Vita, and allow PS4 owners to download the newly created PS4 versions free of charge. Many third-party game developers soon followed, with Sony's encouragement.
Microsoft started off selling some remasters of their own, but was a couple of years late to the cross-buy party. They eventually started doing cross-buy, and in some notable ways improved on this (from a consumer perspective) by extending it to some retail discs--thus the "Xbox 360 games on Xbox One". They'd essentially blended the two strategies together into one.
Sony's mistake was not readjusting and extending the cross-buy policy to match what Microsoft was now doing. When they started bringing PS2 games to PS4, they made some major strategic errors, one of which was not allowing PS4 owners to insert an old PS2 disc and play the game without having to repurchase it (as Xbox One owners could do with Xbox 360 discs). To add insult to injury, they wouldn't even extend cross-buy to previously purchased downloadable PS2 games from PS3.
While Sony still does cross-buy for downloadable games to this day (thankfully), they never did allow this for retail discs. They had plenty of opportunities to shift their strategy, even on the basis of a limited selection of games (which is what Microsoft does), and they blew it. As a result, Microsoft gained a lot of favorable mindshare from consumers, while relatively few people recall Sony's early initiatives. This is one reason why we're having this discussion now.
Ten_Fold
Member
That’s all I ask, it’s not like they don’t have the software to do so, they just rather sell you PS NOW or resell the games on the PSN store even though you brought them on the PS3.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah, I’m still pissed at how they handled Virtual Console from Wii U and forward. I had over 100 Wii VC games, it was awesome and I wanted to support it any way I could. Then they made them playable through Wii mode on WiiU, bought a bunch of upgraded titles for specifically for WiiU. Still pretty awesome. But then they just killed the service and started trying to drip feed us through Nintendo Online instead...
The whole thing has made me think twice about any investment on Switch. Do I really need the game right now? Building a backlog seems dumb, will the games even be playable 3 years from now on their next box? Maybe it’s worth checking if the game is available on some other platform instead? Etc
Agent X
Member
I was thinking the same thing. Nintendo did a good job transitioning the Virtual Console from Wii to Wii U, but they made numerous other blunders.
First, they should have shared VC on 3DS with that of Wii and Wii U. If the VC games were cross-buy between 3DS and the home consoles (like PS1 classics were between PS3, PSP, and PS Vita), then that would have been very beneficial for users of multiple systems. I surely would've bought a lot more VC games if they did that.
Second, they just totally decided to quit the whole VC thing for Switch. If VC was a continuous thing between Wii, Wii U, 3DS, and now Switch, then it could have become the de facto "first stop" online destination for retro video games. It would have been for classic gaming what iTunes was for music, or Kindle was for books. Instead, they chose to throw it all away.
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Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
If lots of people cared about BC for older consoles then Sony would do it. There's not enough gamers who care about this
sadmaker
Member
LMFAO this. I want to continue playing older games so I had a responsibility to install CFW to play whatever I want regardless of sony's or anyone else's cost cutting decisions
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
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Mobile Suit Gooch
Grundle: The Awakening
That's why I don't know why Sony hasn't jumped on this sooner. A huge feather in their cap.
Arrogance.
Trogdor1123
Member
I think it's more that they have an economic responsibility to their shareholders to do it. There has to be lots of quick money there. I'm not a computer programmer though so what do I know.
Outrunner
Member
Thanks for describing every single corporation in the world
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Let's be real though, compare it to movies for a close to apples-to-apples match-up.
Do movie studios keep producing titles on abandoned formats, like say VHS? No.
Do they keep all their back catalogue in constant circulation via reprints and remasterings? No.
Do they even offer their entire catalogue of recent movies on-demand? No.
Do they keep a stockpile of masters warehoused away for safe-keeping? Yes.
Why are games supposed to be treated differently? Especially as they aren't nearly so easy to transform between different media/playback methods, and don't have nearly so many avenues for distribution and exhibition?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
When you buy a movie, does your media player or PC still allow you to play the disc/digital file without CMOS battery issues or time syncing with an online store?
Yes.
Mr Moose
Member
He's right, they look like shit.
We have rose tinted glasses when it comes to old games, I remember them looking much better.
It's us that needs to preserve shit, with discs, fuck digital.
Indeed lmao. Nintendo charging full retail for barely upgraded ports. Microsoft only went the BC route to distract from their lack of compelling releases during X1 generation. They ran with pro consumer narrative, because it continues to distract from that deficit.
At the end of the day, the company's greatest concern is bolstering money. The fans are born from attraction to the content. I would love for BC to go that far back, but ultimately it isn't worth effort of RnD. Screw what they saying about it now. They have been saying that since removing the feature from PS3 to cost cut, because people weren't using the feature much.
If they make a surprise announcement that they will upgrade bc capabilities and go that far back, that is what is up. But for them to have interest to building for it, they gotta see big returns from the "fans" to incentivise it.
Lol, Amen. Collect it like vinyl
EDMIX
Member
This.
They are not trying to hear theses facts. I don't get it, if they gave such a fuck about those games, how come they don't have the hardware? I have several PS2's, from fats to slims, PS3 being BC didn't make me suddenly throw my PS2's away or sell them etc. I got 2 PS3's that are BC, a 40 GB I bought for my sister and a Metal Gear Solid IV special edition and a PS3 Slim.....I sold NONE OF THEM when PS4 came out, so when people kept bitching about it not having BC, my favorite question is, where the fuck is your PS3, PS2, PS1 etc if you LOOOOOOOVE those games soooooo much? It makes no sense.
Sony nor Nintendo nor MS owe anyone anything, they are not the only fucking publishers in gaming to really be making it seem as if they have a "RESONSPTIBLITY" to get other people's fucking games updated.
Love the game? Buy the fucking hardware to play it.
You can't play all Nintendo games on Switch, you can't play ALL 100% XB games on Series X, you can't play all PlayStation games on PS5, shit you can't even play ALL PC's games on PC without several work arounds with several harddrives with different OS's.
Semi OT as a long time PC gamer, don't came at me with that stupid shit like all games on PC work on all PC's regardless or some shit or no remasters happen on PC, that seems to be dumbass myth that keeps going around from people who don't fucking game on PC (or haven't for the same number decades).
It is the responsibility of the consumer to preserve the games they buy. No company owes anyone some lifetime support BS. Love the game, keep the hardware if you love it so much.
Thats it. We don't even have 1 fucking example of ANY COMPANY that has 100% of some library fully supported regardless of the system or something. Fuck does that tell some of you about this topic?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I forget where I read it, but I read somewhere Sony's BC features in PS2 and PS3 weren't so much for long term viability. They were done so they had a feature to brag about against Dreamcast and 360.
Those launch games for PS2/PS3 were mostly junk. As soon as the better games came out, they already planned to phase out BC in later models, so going forward people would focus on the newer games.
People didn't care so much back then because it was all physical discs. Most people (like me) traded in consoles and discs and put it towards the new gear so BC isn't so important.
But now with everyone buying tons of digital files (can't be sold) and gamers knowing the latest systems are more PC like, their expectation is these files should still be accessible, especially when there's emulators out in the wild made by hobbyists. So if they can do it, a giant corporation can do it too. And they already had BC in old systems 15 years ago so it's doable even by head office.
Imru’ al-Qays
Member
Sony has until the first major Series S price drop to implement PS1/PS2/PSP/Vita backwards compatibility or I'm just buying an Xbox as an emulation box. It's genuinely bizarre that they're still dragging their feet on this, particularly for PS1 and PSP which would be absolutely trivial to code emulators for.
Physiognomonics
Member
Not 100% guaranted. You never know what can happen. Konami did lost the source code of Silent Hill 2 and 3. There is a known rule at engineering: If one shit can happen, then it will probably happen.
The inclusion of needing to have trophies has killed PS2 support on PS4. Sony have a working emulator as seen on PS1 on PSP. PSP on PS3, PS2 on PS3 and PS4. They can easily port their PS1, PS2 and PSP emulators atleast. Fuck the trophy hunters just release the games in their original forms other than rendering some games at a higher resolution. Sony have some great classic games that have aged gracefully. There are a ton of 2D PS1 games that still look great. And 3D PS2 games still look good when upresssed to HD/4K. Only thing I can't really go back to is 3D PS1 games
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Didnt know that. lol.
I'm a big fan of the old HoMM3 game. UBI only remastered the core game (HoMM3 HD) because they lost the source code for the expansions. The expansions were the best part of the game too because it added another faction, more items and had the random map generator feature.
I don't get how software companies can lose the code when every game probably made in the past 30 years you'd think would be back up both physically on media or drives and on servers, but I guess that isn't always the case.
Many of the lost source code cases is probably stemming from code left on a rotting hard drive left in an office closet. No further back ups.
Not sure Jim Ryan's comments are exactly wrong. It's all about perspective, in this case more so age and nostalgia. It's dam hard to go back and play an earlier era 3d game. Anyone under the age of 20-25 would be disgusted with what they see. It depends what you grew up on really. I find 2D games are much easier to go back and play. So is their a market for this with 25+ gamers?.
Are we expecting Vita games to look and play well on our big tv's? does need some up scaling?, then is the game no longer the same game?
I would guess most 30 and under players, don't or couldn't go back past PS3 level of graphics?
Are we expecting Vita games to look and play well on our big tv's? does need some up scaling?, then is the game no longer the same game?
I would guess most 30 and under players, don't or couldn't go back past PS3 level of graphics?
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
There seems to be a big market for PC gamers to play oldies on Steam and GOG. And GOG games can go all the way back to the 80s.
So if PC gamers play old games, why wouldn't console gamers want to do the same?
Reality Czar
Banned
Games preservation is all about original hardware or emulation.
This idea that new hardware needs to be able to play every previously released game ever is some silly pipe dream. Even streaming services like Netflix and D+ have to deal with licensing issues and removing titles from their catalog. Even Gamepass takes things out of rotation.
Plus let’s consider when these companies start removing content to go with the changing times. Some titles are censored, some removed, some just not included in the first place (Song of the South). Censorship on these services is very popular. If you think this wouldn’t happen with games too then you are living in a fantasy.
The “Netflix of Games” that is an unchanging catalog of every game ever made is a dream and that’s all it will ever be.
This idea that new hardware needs to be able to play every previously released game ever is some silly pipe dream. Even streaming services like Netflix and D+ have to deal with licensing issues and removing titles from their catalog. Even Gamepass takes things out of rotation.
Plus let’s consider when these companies start removing content to go with the changing times. Some titles are censored, some removed, some just not included in the first place (Song of the South). Censorship on these services is very popular. If you think this wouldn’t happen with games too then you are living in a fantasy.
The “Netflix of Games” that is an unchanging catalog of every game ever made is a dream and that’s all it will ever be.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nobody ever argued subscription plans like GP, PS Now or Netflix keep 100% of content. Every one knows content can come and go based on the deal with the content creator.
He was just too candid for them. He literally was giving the opinion that the majority of us have, whether they want to admit or not.
The ps2 and ps1 games look ancient when put side by side with ps4 and ps5. 3D games typically don't age well like 2d games as it is. Fairly simple. That's why if you see the original quote, he was talking about Gran Turismo as an example, from a event that had GT spanning 4 gens. He made that statement about the ps2 and ps1 version, saying why would anyone want to.play ps1 and ps2 games, they look ancient in comparison to what we have now.
Jim Ryan misdirects with some of his quotes and outright lies with some others. But I do like his honest moments. He can be savage as hell, even about his own shit.