Support NeoGAF

[Cyberpunkd]

This came to me with all the discussion about games being super long, and taking more and more time. Nowadays quite a few of them have the lowest difficulty designated as 'story' but that doesn't really change the length or the existence of additional elements that add to the length of the game. God forbid there is a resource gate in the main story (hello Anthem, hello DA:I) - you are still obligated to grind it out, even if at a lower difficulty.

My proposal: can developers create a limited, story-focused mode that makes the gameplay elements between major story points smaller, a middle ground between the current setup (same content, lower difficulty) and 'game video' watched on YouTube?

Getting some objections out of the way:

1. 'I like long games' - great, the same game that you want to play is still there if you want it.
2. 'Why would you like to cut down on the gameplay, just watch the movie instead' - A. people enjoy videogame setting and worlds and they are not always replicated in movie form ; B. something that is refreshing for 5 hours might not be so for the next 20 hours

I see two main problems with this approach:
1. If you can finish the game in shorter amount of time you can sell it faster, thus having more people willing to wait a few days after the release to buy second-hand
2. It will require an effort from the devs to create an alternate version of the game

 

[cormack12]

Seems like a lot of work but I generally agree and for one reason only - the amount of fucking collectibles. For those completionists needing to wander round and wall trace every building in every arena is a pain in the ass and kills the pacing. I recently played through NG+ on TLOU II and it's a totally different game if you don't want the collectibles as well (except consumables and reagents obviously). The pacing feels much better, the game goes by quicker and it just feels how it's meant to be played. The safe puzzles can stay as they are kind of interesting but the cards, coins and other artefacts - flush down the toilet or put into a wander round abandoned Seattle mode.

 

[royox]

Games should NOTHING. Not all games have to be for everybody. Choose the games based on your taste and possibilities. "I have 3 kids, a wife and a son, I cannot play 80h long games" then don't buy 80h games, duh.

 

[Self]

I would pay $100 for a 'quantic dream version' of Witcher 3. Just the story and spare me the janky bullshit gameplay.

 

[jufonuk]

Depends on the game.

what would the story mode for Tetris be ?

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Games should NOTHING. Not all games have to be for everybody. Choose the games based on your taste and possibilities. "I have 3 kids, a wife and a son, I cannot play 80h long games" then don't buy 80h games, duh.

The problem is as times go by games become longer and longer as a rule to give the illusion of 'value for money'. Compare the length of a game 20 years ago and now. Check the difference between The Last of Us 1 and 2.

Depends on the game.

what would the story mode for Tetris be ?

I thought about specifically games that have a coherent story taking X hours to go through. Obviously games like Tetris, music game, roguelikes, etc. do not apply.

 

[Mistershine.]

Seems like a lot of work but I generally agree and for one reason only - the amount of fucking collectibles. For those completionists needing to wander round and wall trace every building in every arena is a pain in the ass and kills the pacing. I recently played through NG+ on TLOU II and it's a totally different game if you don't want the collectibles as well (except consumables and reagents obviously). The pacing feels much better, the game goes by quicker and it just feels how it's meant to be played. The safe puzzles can stay as they are kind of interesting but the cards, coins and other artefacts - flush down the toilet or put into a wander round abandoned Seattle mode.

If the collectables are optional and have no impact on the gameplay then couldn't you just ignore them entirely?

 

[Gandih42]

I see where you're coming from, and as someone who would never use this feature, I still think it could be valuable to customers. More options never hurt the customer.

But I think in terms of development it might not be a great use of resources. For a "story mode" to be engaging (more so than just watching the cutscenes on YouTube), I imagine it would require a lot of gameplay tweaking and perhaps overhaul.

And in my opinion, the effectiveness of a games story is largely dependent on the time and effort a player puts in. At least ideally, the gameplay should synergize with the story in some way. I think very few beloved stories would have gotten their acclaim if people hadn't spent their time with the game (although that's not to say many games could safely be trimmed for fat and bloat).

So in summary : the story in longer games should be written and told in a way that takes advantage of the games length. In this ideal case, I think the impact of the story would be greatly lessened or require significant tweaking to be told in a more condensed way.

Also, would you pay full price to play through a condensed version of the game for just the story? Especially with all the resources floating around elsewhere to get the story.

 

[GHG]

The problem is as times go by games become longer and longer as a rule to give the illusion of 'value for money'. Compare the length of a game 20 years ago and now. Check the difference between The Last of Us 1 and 2.

You're playing the wrong games. There are plenty of games that offer up a story and aren't very long. As examples in the last year I've played deliver us the moon, her story, transistor and a plague tale, all of which are story driven games that take 10 hours or less.

I thought about specifically games that have a coherent story taking X hours to go through. Obviously games like Tetris, music game, roguelikes, etc. do not apply.

Some rogue likes (hades, children of morta) require dozens, if not hundreds, of runs to get all of the story.

 

[The Hamburglar]

Games have become very hand held and easy and your suggestion is to make them easier by having even less control. Sorry op but your opinion sucks on this.
Truth is 90% of games story suck with average writing at best.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Games have become very hand held and easy and your suggestion is to make them easier by having even less control. Sorry op but your opinion sucks on this.
Truth is 90% of games story suck with average writing at best.

Read my OP again please, I am not saying to make the game easier in difficulty, just to create a separate story flow without all the repetitive fetch activities. I agree with your opinion about the story in videogames, which is why I gravitate more and more to indies - they do not have large story and graphics budget, so they need to get creative with gameplay.

 

[cormack12]

If the collectables are optional and have no impact on the gameplay then couldn't you just ignore them entirely?

Because they fill in backstory, a set of collectibles in TLOU II for example tell the story of particular groups and they keep that thread leaving notes for each other. It's really easy to miss one in the chain, and it gets in the way of the main narrative. Your point invites an obviously wider discussion from the other side though

If the collectables are optional and have no impact on the gameplay then couldn't they just be left out entirely?

Take Abbys coins (because Ellie's cards were fucking stupid). We see early on her dad was a coin collector so its something that has sentiment and meaning in the context of the game. Is collecting 40 odd coins in between encounters where you are mowing down scars really the best time to be running into every little corner?

Lev: Quick, we need to get to PoI
Abby: I agree, but wait for ten minutes and let me fanny round butting walls until I see a prompt for those coins

For me, these would work much better as a seperate mode where you're just wandering through the streets specifically searching or looking for them. You could even have a few more complex puzzles designed around them instead of just placing them in obscure places. There's no rush, it isn't affecting the pace of the overall narrative and it provides another mode for those who don't necessarily want story combat - it could even have specific encounters.

Edit: I'm only using TLOU II as the recent example, but things like Gears 5 are also guilty of this and Halo, Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

One advantage, dev-wise, I could see of this is that such a mode would help QA test the critical path easier. It would also help balancing optional content in a way (to make sure the optional content does not give much more XP than this story mode assumes the player to get).
A bit similar to how speeding-up-combat options are incredibly helpful for testing turn-based combat games.

So if such a mode was in a game, I see no reason not to enable it for players.
Of course, it should make acquiring most achievements and other meta-stuff impossible.

However, if such a mode was not in a game already, the work to put it in would simply not be worth the effort.

 

[jufonuk]

But OP you are making it seem all games should have a story. Which I don’t think is the case. Some games don’t need it.


I think games Shouldn’t have to be all things to everyone. Rather the good game should be for themselves and stand up on their own strengths. Be it single player only. MP only. Story or no story.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

How about a non-story mode! All story elements are in game, in quick text boxes you can still skip if wanted.

- Zero beginning credits
- Zero cutscenes
- Zero ending credits

 

[TonyK]

I think what you are referring already exists, it is called book. There is even a version with images and sound known as movie.

 

[Kupfer]

The problem is as times go by games become longer and longer as a rule to give the illusion of 'value for money'. Compare the length of a game 20 years ago and now. Check the difference between The Last of Us 1 and 2.

In TLOUll all cutscenes combined are 10hours+, same for Death Stranding and RDR2, God of War ~6hours, same for Horizon and Ghost of Tsushima , MGS4 ~9 hours, same for GTA V, you see were I'm going.
It's not like you would skip those cutscenes, if you just want to experience the story. These big games became more like a hybrid of a movie and a game, so it's actually not only the gameplay-part length of a game which bothers some people, but more the movie part, which feels exhausting.

I personally love both parts.

 

[Spaceman292]

This came to me with all the discussion about games being super long, and taking more and more time. Nowadays quite a few of them have the lowest difficulty designated as 'story' but that doesn't really change the length or the existence of additional elements that add to the length of the game. God forbid there is a resource gate in the main story (hello Anthem, hello DA:I) - you are still obligated to grind it out, even if at a lower difficulty.

My proposal: can developers create a limited, story-focused mode that makes the gameplay elements between major story points smaller, a middle ground between the current setup (same content, lower difficulty) and 'game video' watched on YouTube?

Getting some objections out of the way:

1. 'I like long games' - great, the same game that you want to play is still there if you want it.
2. 'Why would you like to cut down on the gameplay, just watch the movie instead' - A. people enjoy videogame setting and worlds and they are not always replicated in movie form ; B. something that is refreshing for 5 hours might not be so for the next 20 hours

I see two main problems with this approach:
1. If you can finish the game in shorter amount of time you can sell it faster, thus having more people willing to wait a few days after the release to buy second-hand
2. It will require an effort from the devs to create an alternate version of the game

Why don't you just read the synopsis on wikipedia you dunce. At think at this point you should just skip buying the game at all and skim through the cutscenes on YouTube. Or find something else to do with your time. You're like one of those people who watches movies at 3x the speed. At some point you should ask yourself if you ever even cared in the first place.

 

[Gandih42]

Why don't you just read the synopsis on wikipedia you dunce. At think at this point you should just skip buying the game at all and skim through the cutscenes on YouTube. Or find something else to do with your time. You're like one of those people who watches movies at 3x the speed. At some point you should ask yourself if you ever even cared in the first place.

I disagree with the dunce part but otherwise this is also how I feel about consuming media in general. If it's something you care about, you want to invest your time in it. Whether it be a movie, book, game or whatever. If you only care enough for part of it, maybe your time is better off being spent elsewhere.

Ultimately, long games appeal to some people, short games to others. Having it both ways for all stories would surely ideal, but not really feasible. And instead of trying to accomplish both, I think the developers effort would be better spent on making the game as good possible for the specific audience and type of game they are making.

People will always be left out one way or another. A "story mode" like OP suggests could be a kind of compromise, but I personally think it sounds like there are other better options for that case.

 

[UnNamed]

Ehm, what OP means is something like Indiana Jones Fate of Atlantis, Combat mode/ Puzzle mode?

 

[Torrent of Pork]

Do youtube cutscene compilations not exist?

 

[MadchesterManc]

Primarily story driven with a little or basic gameplay between story segments? Sounds like a Visual novel.

 

[Spaceman292]

I disagree with the dunce part but otherwise this is also how I feel about consuming media in general. If it's something you care about, you want to invest your time in it. Whether it be a movie, book, game or whatever. If you only care enough for part of it, maybe your time is better off being spent elsewhere.

Ultimately, long games appeal to some people, short games to others. Having it both ways for all stories would surely ideal, but not really feasible. And instead of trying to accomplish both, I think the developers effort would be better spent on making the game as good possible for the specific audience and type of game they are making.

People will always be left out one way or another. A "story mode" like OP suggests could be a kind of compromise, but I personally think it sounds like there are other better options for that case.

Exactly. I know that for some reason people here (incorrectly) parrot the opinion that the Witcher 3 gameplay isn't good, but if you took that out and just watched the cutscenes it would detract HUGELY from the experience.

 

[Black_Stride]

How about a non-story mode! All story elements are in game, in quick text boxes you can still skip if wanted.

- Zero beginning credits
- Zero cutscenes
- Zero ending credits

Pure gameplay mode?

Sold.
Sold as shit!

Wasnt Gears of War 3 Arcade effectively that?
Or am I thinking of Halo?

I know one of the games Arcade mode skipped almost all the fluff and it was gameplay back to back.

 

[German Hops]

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Why don't you just read the synopsis on wikipedia you dunce. At think at this point you should just skip buying the game at all and skim through the cutscenes on YouTube. Or find something else to do with your time. You're like one of those people who watches movies at 3x the speed. At some point you should ask yourself if you ever even cared in the first place.

Chill and cut the attitude, or take a break from posting.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Anything that makes games more accessible is fine by me. But its not a popular opinion among "hardcore" gamers.

Was playing P5 yesterday and got presented with some annoying puzzle. Would have loved an option to skip that shit but as it was it took me 10 minutes to look up a YT video.

 

[Danjin44]

Nah, the type of games i enjoy the gameplay as important as the story, I never want to skip it.

 

[perkelson]

We already have those. They are called movies.

 

[Roberts]

When it comes to storytelling, I don't think developers have to do anything else other than tell story they want to tell, the way they want to tell it. If it take s a lot of grinding, you can always play something else.

 

[MagnesG]

I think it will works very well for heavily cinematic games, those walking simulator paths and fetch quests could be cut short too.

 

[Griffon]

A good supercut on youtube can do the trick.

On another note: if you don't want to play the games, maybe it's not games you actually want.

 

[Mistershine.]

Because they fill in backstory, a set of collectibles in TLOU II for example tell the story of particular groups and they keep that thread leaving notes for each other. It's really easy to miss one in the chain, and it gets in the way of the main narrative. Your point invites an obviously wider discussion from the other side though

If the collectables are optional and have no impact on the gameplay then couldn't they just be left out entirely?

Take Abbys coins (because Ellie's cards were fucking stupid). We see early on her dad was a coin collector so its something that has sentiment and meaning in the context of the game. Is collecting 40 odd coins in between encounters where you are mowing down scars really the best time to be running into every little corner?

Lev: Quick, we need to get to PoI
Abby: I agree, but wait for ten minutes and let me fanny round butting walls until I see a prompt for those coins

For me, these would work much better as a seperate mode where you're just wandering through the streets specifically searching or looking for them. You could even have a few more complex puzzles designed around them instead of just placing them in obscure places. There's no rush, it isn't affecting the pace of the overall narrative and it provides another mode for those who don't necessarily want story combat - it could even have specific encounters.

Edit: I'm only using TLOU II as the recent example, but things like Gears 5 are also guilty of this and Halo, Uncharted, Tomb Raider etc.

But they're not needed, and if you don't get them then you will still know what's going on and can get unhindered to the end of the game, they're entirely optional.

 

[Jeeves]

So the dev has to spend extra time and money making a version of the game that doesn't even fit their vision?

I'm not saying there's not room for improvement in AAA game design -- far from it -- but this is not the way.

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

I object, strenuously, to one singular word in your premise.

"Should".

It'd be nice to see some games provide these options, if developers thought it worthwhile to do so. But no developer should ever be expected to do such a thing of their own will. Ask developers for it, maybe it'll be implemented. But no game "should" have something like that, if the developers do not deem it necessary.

Otherwise though, while I am not entirely against the premise, wouldn't story-compilation videos on Youtube or someplace fulfill that mode's purpose? There's plenty of them, some even make for entertaining viewing (I particularly enjoyed Mortal Kombat 11's recently). They're nice to have, but the community can make them - why ask it of the devs?

 

[Dibils2k]

this is needed for TLOU

i really enjoyed story of TLOU1, but man was the gameplay sections a drag, especially as someone who find stealth really boring

 

[Certinty]

I'm all for it to be honest.

The dungeons in Persona 5 put me off the game as did the trials in the Danganronpa ones.

 

[Spaceman292]

Chill and cut the attitude, or take a break from posting.

What a weird post

 

[Soodanim]

YouTube.com
“[Game Title] movie”

That’s the closest to your movie version you’re going to get.

A bit of bonus trivia: MGS3 Subsistence had an in-house produced “Movie” version on the 3rd disc made from in game footage edited together with codec stuff. You’re not going to find many officially made movies versions of games, and of course it’s Kojima that made it.

 

[Larxia]

Netflix - Watch TV Shows Online, Watch Movies Online

Watch Netflix movies & TV shows online or stream right to your smart TV, game console, PC, Mac, mobile, tablet and more.

www.netflix.com

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

No. How do you even achieve that without it looking like a cut and paste botch job? Developers already deal with a ton of shit, last thing they need is to spend months thinking how will this all look when it gets chopped up, but to still tell the story and to look seamless.

No time for games? Either quit your job, sell the kids or just dont play games . You cant have everything.

 

[Kimahri]

If devs stopped adding irrelevant garbage to their games just to artificially ezpaand the time it takes to complete, this wouldn't be necessary. A toggle upon starting the game to turn off all collectibles and similar time wasters outside of things necesaary would serve much of the same purpose.

 

[Griffon]

All books should have easy words and pretty pictures in it. I don't like to read descriptions or to have to think too hard. Actually, fuck it, make it all pictures with only text in bubbles for dialogues.

 

[Mabdia]

And it is free

 

[01011001]

nope. I don't like any form of difficulty settings to begin with as it usually means 1 well designed mode and 5 shitty ones that were clearly afterthoughts.

a well designed game doesn't need any difficulty settings, and if it has them they better bring something interesting to the table and aren't just "you take less damage" bullshit modes that kill the balancing of the game.

Perfect Dark is a good example on how to do difficulty settings correctly, each one plays differently to the other as higher modes give you additional mission objectives that get increasingly harder.
this adds replay value.

on the other hand we have the worst offender that I can think of on the spot and that is NieR, that game simply makes enemies super tanky in higher modes. so basically on hard even super easy enemies become damage sponges, which adds nothing to the difficulty of the game but simply makes killing everything slower.

so nah. difficulty modes should only be a thing if they add value to the game, which is rarely the case.

 

[D.Final]

Fighting games
All

 

[MadYarpen]

Bloodborne definitely needs it. So I can fucking find a story.

 

[SleepySlippy]

"I have 3 kids, a wife and a son"

 

[Moogle11]

I think difficulty options are usually enough, especially if they fit with the more recent trend of being more nuanced and letting users tune specific things rather than just an easy, medium, hard etc. option.

That said, I’d be all for more options in long, story heavy games. Things like CRPGs like Divinity Original Sin and similar I’d be for an option to auto fight or skip battles. The game is known for having a great story,lots of dialogue and choices etc. I’d like to experience, but I just hate the battle is in those games, hate the shit ton of systems to figure out in CRPGs etc. and found it too hard even on easy.

That said, not all games need to be for me and I was fine just skipping that game any steering clear of that genre. Devs don’t need to cater to me. That said, they’re missing out on some money from me as I’d buy and play games like that if I was able to put them on easy (or whatever other settings) and blow through them for the story like I do in games with other combat systems like Witcher 3.

 

[Aphantallica]

We already have those. They are called movies.

The original post addresses this comment.