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[Nowcry]

Great to see you again Bo_Hazem

Unwanted advise: Instead of just loling at posts it would be more constructive, and you wouldn't look as a fanboy as you do, if you could demonstrate somehow that Demon's Souls was not 1440p as DF and Lance McDonal, who both have contacts in BluePoint games, claim instead of 4K that you were claiming.
While you are at it you could also proof how DS uses RT as you were claiming although Gavin Moore, creative director of DS says it doesn't

I can prove that to you. no need to bother Bo_Hazem .

Global lighting and real-time shadows is an RT technique that does not need to use dedicated hardware but is supported. There are no RT reflections but in return you get that great lighting and shadows.

I put a timestamp right at the moment when he talks about PS5 and demon souls.
[embed] [/ embed]

It is impossible to use real time lighting and shadows without ray tracing techniques. As soon as a light becomes dynamic either in position or turned on or off at will you need to use ray tracing techniques.
The game is a luxury to see it is more I can recognize the lighting in real time easily and reflections of at least indirect lighting that are techniques that use RT can be in shaders or in dedicated hardware:

There is a moment when this appears:

The armor is reflecting the fire a little on the left shoulder, which later disappears and does not reflect until it approaches with the different intensities.

You can also see how the sword reflects indirect light on the ground:

Here we can see how the same one on the right shoulder pad stops reflecting when it interposes its head between the global illumination so it is not SSR and also casts shadows on itself.

As I said this game uses ray tracing techniques to render, either through shaders or through dedicated hardware. And no matter what a magazine says or what the Dev says, it is clear that he has misunderstood the question, the ray tracing he is talking about is reflections or they will not use the dedicated hardware but the game uses techniques of ray tracing since there is no other technique for it, because they prefer to use shaders and the CPU, because they have written the code this way. Although it seems strange to me that the dedicated RT hardware will not be used since it could only improve the fps instead of leaving it stopped, except that RDNA2 does not have dedicated hardware and is only a shader accelerator (as I have already proposed in a later post ).

In any case, the game is spectacular, for now only the demo of UE5 that used the same lighting surpasses it.


We also have an interview from 1 day earlier in which I mention ray tracing.

Please wait for the matter to be clarified and stop spreading FUD.

 

[geordiemp]

There's already support fort DirectML in DirectX 12U. I would expect that to be used.

And I don't think MS would have made such a big fuzz of having DirectML support in XSX if they were only going to use that with the auto HDR feature.

We'll see! They have a big uphill battle to get comparable results to Sony technique

Remember MS developed XSX with common api across platforms and PC, and its a dual purpose chip that also will be used in server. So the needs are very different.

Sony have 1 chip and 1 application, console gaming full stop, so will only choose items on silicon that fits their specfic needs for next 3-5 years.

Both are not right or wrong, both have developed what they believe they need for the next few years.

Sometimes its a gamble...There is no need for dedicated ML on console today....but who knows what tomorow brings.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Retail real teardown vs DF March playkit

Why does it look so different???

 

[Nowcry]

does AMD's infinity cache serves same purpose as cache scrubbers for PS5?

It could be a response from sony for not being able to have 128M cache and wanting to achieve an equivalent HIT.

Or perhaps vice versa, AMD after the collaboration has seen that a giant cache does the same effect and they could afford it.

 

[geordiemp]

It could be a response from sony for not being able to have 128M cache and wanting to achieve an equivalent HIT.

Or perhaps vice versa, AMD after the collaboration has seen that a giant cache does the same effect and they could afford it.

Nothing will be as good as 128 MB L3, but there is more to this fast caches - shared L1 data, shared L0 data was in patents as well ?

If ps5 shares L1 and L0 data and has cache optimisations, it may get someof the benefits. Shared L1 gives 22 % IPC for example.

We will learn more about infinity cache soon, its not just a big lump of 128 MB L3 which also helps bandwidth. Its only part of the story.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Great to see you again Bo_Hazem

Unwanted advise: Instead of just loling at posts it would be more constructive, and you wouldn't look as a fanboy as you do, if you could demonstrate somehow that Demon's Souls was not 1440p as DF and Lance McDonal, who both have contacts in BluePoint games, claim instead of 4K that you were claiming.
While you are at it you could also proof how DS uses RT as you were claiming although Gavin Moore, creative director of DS says it doesn't

I'd wait before you start anything difinitive with the raytracing fiasco until we get official confirmation

 

[Yoboman]

Great to see you again Bo_Hazem

Unwanted advise: Instead of just loling at posts it would be more constructive, and you wouldn't look as a fanboy as you do, if you could demonstrate somehow that Demon's Souls was not 1440p as DF and Lance McDonal, who both have contacts in BluePoint games, claim instead of 4K that you were claiming.
While you are at it you could also proof how DS uses RT as you were claiming although Gavin Moore, creative director of DS says it doesn't

And is this confirmed now? Or is it still a single, possibly mistranslated source against many sources that have said there is ray tracing?

 

[Darius87]

It could be a response from sony for not being able to have 128M cache and wanting to achieve an equivalent HIT.

Or perhaps vice versa, AMD after the collaboration has seen that a giant cache does the same effect and they could afford it.

i'm not sure but i think it is.
both methods increase effective GPU BW. reason AMD couldn't adopt sony solution maybe because it requires coherency engines to work with scrubbers or sony couldn't adopt because of die size.

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

Also links with the Sony VRS patents using complex meshes, to do a VRS where you take what someone is viewing and then take into account 2 eyes and FOVeated and then doing VRS around the edges of 3d objects of wide angle frustum........................... requires VRS integrated into a custom Geometry engine.

Also the fact that Naughty dog devs are on the patents suggest these optimisations where directly what Sony first party wanted.

Matt hargatt has also teased this numerous times.

But the proof will be in the pudding.

Yep, Matt Hargett has basically spilled the beans without breaking NDA.

He doesn’t just say things for the sake of it.

 

[geordiemp]

Great to see you again Bo_Hazem

Unwanted advise: Instead of just loling at posts it would be more constructive, and you wouldn't look as a fanboy as you do, if you could demonstrate somehow that Demon's Souls was not 1440p as DF and Lance McDonal, who both have contacts in BluePoint games, claim instead of 4K that you were claiming.
While you are at it you could also proof how DS uses RT as you were claiming although Gavin Moore, creative director of DS says it doesn't

I think everyone could be right here, if Bo_Hazem analysed some footage and it was 4K then I believe him. If DF anaysed some early footage and saw 1440p I believe them also.

It could be there is different footage and different versions going around before release, god who would of thought.

Now shake hands and lets continue, I dont believe anyone is spreading FUD or trying to deceive.

Oh and keep it civil gentlemen.

 

[jasondefaoite]

Retail real teardown vs DF March playkit

Nice. Two things I notice. The flat flexible cable (FFC) from the centre to the left, has foil on both sides. Helps stabilise the impedance of the cable and improve the EMI performance.

Second is the yellowish tape on the left. Kapton tape. Very good to help prevent ESD. There must be a hole or a seam close to that location when the cover is put pack on. Adding that tape will improve its ESD robustness.

 

[PSX]

 

[roops67]

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Marques Brownlee: "This (the PS5 controller) might be the most next-gen thing about any of the upcoming next-gen consoles." YongYea demonstrates how the panels are super-easy to remove and put back on:

www.neogaf.com

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

While I'm not graphics hardware/software engineer, I think a lot of this stems from the misunderstanding about hardware and implementations of that hardware. For instance, Primitive Shaders and Mesh Shaders are extremely similar. Does the hardware for XBox not support Primitive shaders, and...

www.neogaf.com

... trying to undo my mistake, sorry R Redlight

 

[DarkParadise]

 

[sircaw]

That is pretty damn good haha

 

[Dodkrake]

Again with the insults. I'll be the bigger man and help you out anyway.

The reviewer pointed out that he couldn't hear the Series X running through his microphone and you called him a liar. However that is perfectly believable if the microphone isn't in close proximity to the console. If the room is big enough and the console quiet enough you wouldn't expect to register anything on a decibel meter. He's not saying it's whisper quiet he's saying that it's silent.

Or are you suggesting that there is no such thing as silence?

I have a One X and it is silent unless you are right up next to it, mere inches away. This is not revolutionary. At least not for Xbox. If I set up a microphone on my couch with the One X running it would show 0db on the meter. Gladly, it seems the Series X continues that tradition.

Maybe you were trying it with a Playstation? That would definitely show on a db meter.

In the wild? No. There's no such thing as silence, which is why companies build these.

And nice strawman. The point is not that the thing is not quiet, it most likely is. The thing is that your boyfriend Jeff needed to say the microphone doesn't even pick it up. That's bullshit for retards like you that gobble it up.

 

[Darklor01]

So far so good here. I check pretty much daily out of random paranoia... and hopes that it says it’s going to ship way more soon that it is supposed to.

 

[Mahavastu]

that is prolly the dumbest thing i ever did, and your right, i did thought bout this. but the x900h was a tv i needed, im running 7.2 surround system, i figured i might as well future proof it, but your right man, ill never use full capabilities of the x6700 nomore then 7.2 system.

If you enjoy the system and money is not a problem, why not?
It is possible to extend to dolby atmos with small speakers you put on top of the front speakers, so this is a potential way of spending a little more money and improving sound in movies.
And you can Bi-Amp the front speakers now. Not sure if it makes that much of a difference of your speakers, but if you have an 11 channel amplifier, why not?
With Bi-Amping and the cheap atmos you use the 11 channels of the X6700 and can give yourself the feeling "this was worth it"

But yes, a cheaper AV receiver would probably have been "enough"

 

[onesvenus]

Global lighting and real-time shadows is an RT technique

No, it's not. You later say that those can be done without RT. If those can be done without RT, they are not RT techniques per se.

As soon as a light becomes dynamic either in position or turned on or off at will you need to use ray tracing techniques

That's not really true at all. Unless you call shadow mapping a RT technique. Just ask yourself a question. Were all the games that exhibit this behavior you say in PS2 for example, using RT? I think the answer is obvious. Are all the games with dynamic time of day like Skyrim, were the sun is moving and turned off at night using RT? Come on.

The armor is reflecting the fire a little on the left shoulder,

Like with dynamic lights and shadows, there are multiple ways of achieving the same result. Those things being present does not mean it's using RT at all.

I'd wait before you start anything difinitive with the raytracing fiasco until we get official confirmation

You are right, although I tend to believe more a direct quote in english from the game designer than anything else. In addition to that, talking with the guy from the interview that claims about DS having RT, he said he has no transcription and that he could have heard it wrong

And is this confirmed now? Or is it still a single, possibly mistranslated source against many sources that have said there is ray tracing?

I don't know how it can be mistranslated when the transcript in english is saying the same.

I think everyone could be right here, if Bo_Hazem analysed some footage and it was 4K then I believe him. If DF anaysed some early footage and saw 1440p I believe them also.

It could be there is different footage and different versions going around before release, god who would of thought.

They were analysing the same footage. In fact Bo did a thread commenting on DFs video. How can the same footage be 1440p and native 4K at the same time?

 

[Yoboman]

No, it's not. You later say that those can be done without RT. If those can be done without RT, they are not RT techniques per se.

That's not really true at all. Unless you call shadow mapping a RT technique. Just ask yourself a question. Were all the games that exhibit this behavior you say in PS2 for example, using RT? I think the answer is obvious. Are all the games with dynamic time of day like Skyrim, were the sun is moving and turned off at night using RT? Come on.

Like with dynamic lights and shadows, there are multiple ways of achieving the same result. Those things being present does not mean it's using RT at all.

You are right, although I tend to believe more a direct quote in english from the game designer than anything else. In addition to that, talking with the guy from the interview that claims about DS having RT, he said he has no transcription and that he could have heard it wrong

I don't know how it can be mistranslated when the transcript in english is saying the same.

They were analysing the same footage. In fact Bo did a thread commenting on DFs video. How can the same footage be 1440p and native 4K at the same time?

Dude you know full well that it was a Spanish site using an audio to text AI generator, who then converted that English text to Spanish. Not to mention that the question would have been a conversion from Spanish to English to begin with. And you think nothing could have been lost in translation?

You also know full well that another interview on the same day mentioned that the game does have ray tracing

Stop being daft

 

[NXGamer]

Hey, NXGamer , do you know something about the Demon's Souls RT confusion?
Something that you can legally say, I mean

I know nothing other than what I saw today. Game is stunning, retro fitting RT for the sake of marketing is not what I would choose and the team know best.

It does not need it, as the demos have clearly shown.

 

[PSX]

 

[onesvenus]

Dude you know full well that it was a Spanish site using an audio to text AI generator, who then converted that English text to Spanish. Not to mention that the question would have been a conversion from Spanish to English to begin with. And you think nothing could have been lost in translation?

You also know full well that another interview on the same day mentioned that the game does have ray tracing

Stop being daft

So the game designer telling in plain English that there has never been RT at all since the start because they didn't plan to and going about that for more than 20 lines is a bad speech to text transcription or a wrong question and I am the one acting silly?
Everybody can believe what they want to believe but saying that the speech to text was wrong when there is absolutely no error in the whole transcription or that the question was wrong, when even without knowing what was asked, the answer is that clear, I don't think it makes sense.

And let me be clear, DS is the benchmark of graphics for next-gen. Having RT or not will not change that at all. The graphics BluePoint have achieved are amazing. I am against the whole defense of RT being there by people who don't know how computer graphics work or by people who believe to choose a Sony marketing blog post from months ago and nothing else.

 

[danielJackson]

Again with the insults. I'll be the bigger man and help you out anyway.

The reviewer pointed out that he couldn't hear the Series X running through his microphone and you called him a liar. However that is perfectly believable if the microphone isn't in close proximity to the console. If the room is big enough and the console quiet enough you wouldn't expect to register anything on a decibel meter. He's not saying it's whisper quiet he's saying that it's silent.

Or are you suggesting that there is no such thing as silence?

I have a One X and it is silent unless you are right up next to it, mere inches away. This is not revolutionary. At least not for Xbox. If I set up a microphone on my couch with the One X running it would show 0db on the meter. Gladly, it seems the Series X continues that tradition.

Maybe you were trying it with a Playstation? That would definitely show on a db meter.

It doesnt work like that.

Also size of the room doesnt matter, distance does.

Even switch is easily audible from 2-4m away in room with low background noise levels, so it is hard to believe any modern console would be that quiet.

Anyone whom claims that their console is silent is a liar and/or doesnt understand basics of acoustics and sound physics.

 

[Nowcry]

Nothing will be as good as 128 MB L3, but there is more to this fast caches - shared L1 data, shared L0 data was in patents as well ?

If ps5 shares L1 and L0 data and has cache optimisations, it may get someof the benefits. Shared L1 gives 22 % IPC for example.

We will learn more about infinity cache soon, its not just a big lump of 128 MB L3 which also helps bandwidth. Its only part of the story.

totally agree, i don't think anything equals 120mb infinity cache. however, having to feed 36 cu and with the I / O so powerful I think it will do a good job.

 

[FALCON_KICK]

Infinity cache seems to be revolutionary implementation according to AMD benchmarks. Lets hope both PS5 and Xbox Series X have some version of it.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I know nothing other than what I saw today. Game is stunning, retro fitting RT for the sake of marketing is not what I would choose and the team know best.

It does not need it, as the demos have clearly shown.

Do you know if we will get multiplatform comparisons before the launch dates?

 

[OmegaSpear]

Guys, whats the next big date(for news)? Or is it just the console launch date?

 

[Birdo]

I have friends who will break that in minutes (You know the type).

 

[FALCON_KICK]

I know nothing other than what I saw today. Game is stunning, retro fitting RT for the sake of marketing is not what I would choose and the team know best.

It does not need it, as the demos have clearly shown.

IMO Demon's Souls 1440p@30fps mode with RT-Audio and RT-Global illumination combined with RT-Shadows and RT-Reflections would be amazing.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I have friends who will break that in minutes (You know the type).

Have a friend who managed to basically destroy a X1 controller and two DS4s. Rubber all fucked up, the plastic of the triggers popped etc

He has the nerve of complaining about build quality while typing from his cracked smartphone. Some folks are fucking gorillas.

 

[Killer Sakoman]

Bo_Hazem apologize for spreading FUD

Digital Foundary didn't prove it yet.

 

[Md Ray]

Retail real teardown vs DF March playkit

Is there a video of the retail kit's teardown? Or more pics? Thanks.

 

[FrankWza]

It is possible to extend to dolby atmos with small speakers you put on top of the front speakers,

This works well and helps expand sound from dts neural. Important for PS5 until tempest for external is ready and for UHD.

 

[Games Dean]

NXGamer hi there. A few months ago you tweeted that you heard something crazy about the PS5 that surprised you. I don't know if you even remember it but if so, has whatever that was been revealed yet? And if not, do you still believe it to be true?

 

[Sinthor]

Bo_Hazem apologize for spreading FUD

I don't think so. We all saw what we saw with those comparisons. I think what's more likely is that the builds or videos DF had were the 1440p versions while they were quietly upgrading it and publishing other videos that WERE 4k. So it led to confusion as we saw both versions. Occam's razor. Because again we all saw the comparisons that clearly showed a discrepancy with what DF was saying. So...it's most likely that BOTH were in circulation.

In any case...not a huge deal. This IS a speculation thread, after all.

 

[Sinthor]

They were analysing the same footage. In fact Bo did a thread commenting on DFs video. How can the same footage be 1440p and native 4K at the same time?

Actually, I'm pretty sure that Bo got his videos from a different source. We could ask but bottom line, you could SEE what he was talking about and that WAS in conflict with what DF was saying. So I think it's MOST LIKELY that there were two different sources out there at the same time. Otherwise, how would YOU explain what Bo was showing?

In the end, even if Bo was wrong due to some technical reason, it was done in good faith and I think anyone seeing what he was talking about would agree at that time. I didn't see anyone debunking it here, that's for sure!

 

[FunkMiller]

Dude you know full well that it was a Spanish site using an audio to text AI generator, who then converted that English text to Spanish. Not to mention that the question would have been a conversion from Spanish to English to begin with. And you think nothing could have been lost in translation?

You also know full well that another interview on the same day mentioned that the game does have ray tracing

Stop being daft

I‘m personally fully willing to accept that Demon’s Souks doesn’t have RT, if that proves to be the case, as I frankly don’t care.

But I certainly think it’s probably worth waiting for an official clarification, instead of wholly trusting in a translated article from one source... because if that article turns out to be incorrect, then anyone who based an entire argument around it is going to look like a right berk.

 

[BigLee74]

Looks fragile as fuck! I would break that, ham-fisted buffoon that I am...

 

[FALCON_KICK]

9 min and 43 sec footage of Spider-Man: Miles Morales in the 'Into the Spider-verse' suit.

 

[smallpotatosan]

I‘m personally fully willing to accept that Demon’s Souks doesn’t have RT, if that proves to be the case, as I frankly don’t care.

But I certainly think it’s probably worth waiting for an official clarification, instead of wholly trusting in a translated article from one source... because if that article turns out to be incorrect, then anyone who based an entire argument around it is going to look like a right berk.

ya, i couldnt' care less. I'm more hyped about dualsense nowadays. lol

 

[ThisIsMyDog]

9 min and 43 sec footage of Spider-Man: Miles Morales in the 'Into the Spider-verse' suit.

what a shite quality, cant they put that on youtube in 4k?

 

[DarkParadise]

what a shite quality, cant they put that on youtube in 4k?

 

[sircaw]

I‘m personally fully willing to accept that Demon’s Souks doesn’t have RT, if that proves to be the case, as I frankly don’t care.

But I certainly think it’s probably worth waiting for an official clarification, instead of wholly trusting in a translated article from one source... because if that article turns out to be incorrect, then anyone who based an entire argument around it is going to look like a right berk.

If there is no ray traying in demon souls then sorry it's fucking overrated as a technique.

That demo is one of the most gorgeous things i have ever seen and there is tonnes of fire and lighting effects in it, if that is a game without Rt then hells bells, its fine by me.

i am a simple consumer and all i know is that looks good, brilliant in fact.

 

[FunkMiller]

Is that Ps4 or 5?

 

[Dibils2k]

I don't think so. We all saw what we saw with those comparisons. I think what's more likely is that the builds or videos DF had were the 1440p versions while they were quietly upgrading it and publishing other videos that WERE 4k. So it led to confusion as we saw both versions. Occam's razor. Because again we all saw the comparisons that clearly showed a discrepancy with what DF was saying. So...it's most likely that BOTH were in circulation.

In any case...not a huge deal. This IS a speculation thread, after all.

or we come to the conclusion that Bo doesn't know WTF he is talking about, shocking i know

Bo made his post same time as DF on the same video... we just got confirmation that the only footage released, until recently, was of the game when it could only hit 1440p in 60fps

 

[sircaw]

or we come to the conclusion that Bo doesn't know WTF he is talking about, shocking i know

Bo made his post same time as DF on the same video... we just got confirmation that the only footage released, until recently, was of the game when it could only hit 1440p in 60fps

And if Bo_Hazem is right are you going to ask Digital foundry to send him an apology?

 

[Dibils2k]

9 min and 43 sec footage of Spider-Man: Miles Morales in the 'Into the Spider-verse' suit.

look at those frame drops, hope it all gets ironed out by launch

 

[Dibils2k]

And if Bo_Hazem is right are you going to ask Digital foundry to send him an apology?

but its confirmed he isnt... how can he see a 4k version of a game when it never existed

 

[Mr Moose]

look at those frame drops, hope it all gets ironed out by launch

Is that Ps4 or 5?

Captured on PS5.