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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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Nowcry

Nowcry

Member
SlimySnake said:
nah, i will just play it on pc.

i think MS missed a trick here by not showing elder scrolls when announcing the sale. I bet it hasnt even hit people how big that is yet.

Of course, launching games on PC has pretty much killed any reason to buy an xsx so thats another bizarre decision by MS.
Click to expand...


I just hope it keeps putting the games on steam. I am not going through the MS store.
 
Tripolygon

Tripolygon

Banned
onQ123 said:
More like

Xbox Series X = RDNA 2.0 with MS changes

PS5 = RDNA 2.0 with Sony changes

no matter what is added or missing from the console GPUs they will still be RDNA 2.0 based consoles
Click to expand...
Say it louder so the people in the back can hear you. This is getting ridiculous. Making slight changes from a base architecture does not make it a different architecture. PS4 Pro does not stop being Polaris based even though it had feature from Vega and even bespoke feature not found in any AMD GPUs.

We are literally a few weeks away from release and this stupid unproductive argument is going on about which GPU is the true RDNA 2 GPU. They are both custom GPUs based on RDNA 2 with slight tweaks. The fact that Microsoft chooses to run their CPU and GPU at a lower clock is because they have gone with how consoles are usually made. Lock GPU and CPU clock speed. Sony can clock high because they are not locking the clock speed, it is variable likewise AMD can clock high because in PCs, race to idle and variable frequency is used.
 
Insane Metal

Insane Metal

Member
Hendrick's said:
So would I. Many would.
Click to expand...
8286.jpg
 
Thirty7ven

Thirty7ven

Banned
3liteDragon said:
Would you guys trade?

Click to expand...


The thing is there’s nothing particularly unique about Elder Scrolls, concept and fantasy building wise. Unlike say, The Witcher.

The hook in ES is how open it is, but there’s really nothing “exclusive” to its delivery. It can be mimicked without anybody feeling like anything is being shamelessly stolen.

God of War is unique in its delivery and you can’t copy it. It would be like copying James Bond for example, you can try all you want, there’s only the one.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Rea said:
So no extra $20, no ray-tracing. Thx Microsoft
Click to expand...

Well, to be fair, they will likely have an update for it. There definitely is an issue with the XSX and ray tracing though it may well be (and likely is) just that the development tools are struggling on the implementation side, or some other type of software development issue. We KNOW the hardware can do it. So...just a matter of time.
 
Rea

Rea

Member
Sinthor said:
Well, to be fair, they will likely have an update for it. There definitely is an issue with the XSX and ray tracing though it may well be (and likely is) just that the development tools are struggling on the implementation side, or some other type of software development issue. We KNOW the hardware can do it. So...just a matter of time.
Click to expand...
Nah, i rather want their developers working on new games than waste time updating their old gen game with ray tracing, without any incentive for developers. The point of my post was to point out how expensive ray tracing is. It's not a simple flip of a switch to activate ray tracing. It needs time and resources for the developers.
Edit: spelling
 
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T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
Nowcry said:
That is what I think has happened. RDNA2 was going to be just like the MS hotchip says without some of its customizations.
While AMD was working with MS on their customizations, it was also working with Sony on an RDNA2 GPU but maybe trying more innovative things or maybe they risked more and it turned out well.

Finally Sony came up with a GPU that pushed quite high with a low TDP and high frequencies and AMD adapted it to RDNA2. This could have happened 1 or more years ago.

MS uses your GPU and Sony uses theirs. However, what makes me think that this happened is that MS has been able to present its Hotchip and Sony has not. Sincerely RDNA2 is the result of a collaboration between Sony AMD and MS has everything that AMD developed but nothing that AMD + Sony developed.

In 10 days we will know I hope all this. However, the fact that Sony has not presented a hotchip only makes me think precisely that AMD opted for AMD + Sony solutions.

However, the MS GPU is RDNA2 because it contains the entire RDNA2 base, however, no AMD + Sony customization, which is what AMD and Sony have adopted for RDNA2.

So they will say RDNA2 based but without infinity cache and possibly the RT is different in the diagram, maybe some improvement in the CU and other series of components. The necessary thing to have clocks at 2.4GHz with 80 CU (a lot).

I'm very curious about the AMD hotchip but especially about the PS5 one I want to see that IO controller and Tempest RDNA2CU based. (It is possible that even the RDNA2CU AMD + Sony is different have some easily customizable layer for some tasks)

I'm dying of curiosity. But it's cool to read you around here to discuss ideas of what may be happening. Keep arguing kindly and with knowledge is very enriching.
Click to expand...
I think we should stop with the whole RDNA 2 "based" thing, as of now we don't even now what that means and it could be very inaccurate, what do we even mean by the term RDNA 2 it self? AMD themselves have not even properly outlined and defined it. Because of this, I think a lot of the controversy has arisen especially with regards to both the consoles and the feature set they incorporate.

It's difficult to speculate on the relationship and collaboration between Sony and AMD and Microsoft and AMD. I would think that AMD have their own set of ideas of what they want to achieve with the their GPU's, this is not limited to only their upcoming GPU's but even the ones which will come out within 1-2 years hence the term "AMD Roadmap". Now both Sony and Microsoft have their own objectives of what they want to achieve with their own GPU and yes on many occasions these objectives will be shared amongst AMD, Sony and Microsoft, a good example would be the performance per watt and IPC gains as well as hardware based ray-tracing and VRS, which are all significant factors for all three of the companies and their upcoming products.

Thanks to Mark Cerny we also know that both Sony and Microsoft will also have their own "unique" objectives when it comes to their APU and its feature set, like the cache scrubbers, Geometry Engine and I/O complex of the PS5 or the backwards compatibility and Machine Learning implementation on the Series X. If AMD feel these "features" or "unique objectives" that Sony and Microsoft want to achieve can also be beneficial for AMD's products, they'll also incorporate them into their own Roadmap, this would be part and parcel of the collaboration agreement, this roadmap would include RDNA 2 + 3 and likely even 4. However there definitely will be features discarded from both Sony and Microsoft on their GPU because they may feel these features won't be beneficial for what they want to achieve, I think this is where a lot of the nonsense "RDNA 1.5" stuff comes from because certain people will have a black and white picture of what RDNA 2 is meant to be and do so without any knowledge on the inside workings of the cards as well the collaboration between these companies.

I know a lot of this is already known but it's good to remind people, hopefully we'll get a much clearer picture in 10 days time.
 
Hendrick's

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
Yoboman said:
Why a poll? I think system sales will be a good metric of that
Click to expand...
What do system sales have to do with ES? The question was whether someone would trade GoW for ES. I think many prefer the ES franchise over the GoW franchise.
 
existensmaximum

existensmaximum

Member
SlimySnake said:
nah, i will just play it on pc.

i think MS missed a trick here by not showing elder scrolls when announcing the sale. I bet it hasnt even hit people how big that is yet.

Of course, launching games on PC has pretty much killed any reason to buy an xsx so thats another bizarre decision by MS.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I have 0 interest in the XSX because of that. If Elder Scrolls VI wasn't on PC I would buy it without blinking, but now I have no reason whatsoever.

Unless.. They fuck it up. Pretty big risk of that. Fallout 76 for example is trash tier.
 
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3liteDragon

3liteDragon

Member
existensmaximum said:
The UE5 demo video (it's 1440p, right?) played on my 65" 4k TV looks way better than any game I've seen running at native 4k at least 🤷‍♂️

Granted, far from all games will look as good as that hough... But anyway.
Click to expand...
Well it’s upsampled to 4K through temporal injection, so it pretty much looks like native 4K with dynamic resolution enabled behind-the-scenes (but you’ll always see 4K since the upsampling is happening every frame).

The only reason people are saying the demo was running at 1440p is because of Epic’s transparency, otherwise no one would’ve been able to tell the difference.

Meanwhile, the dynamic resolution with a modal 1440p pixel count has also drawn some negative reaction. We have access to 20 uncompressed grabs from the trailer: they defy traditional pixel counting techniques. When the overall presentation looks this good, this detailed, with solid temporal stability (ie, no flicker or shimmer frame to frame), resolution becomes less important - the continuation of a trend we've seen since the arrival of the mid-generation console refreshes. As we said almost two years ago now, next-gen shouldn't be about 'true 4K', the game has moved on and put it frankly - GPU resources are better spent elsewhere.
Click to expand...
www.eurogamer.net

Inside Unreal Engine 5: how Epic delivers its generational leap

Epic's reveal of Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on PlayStation 5 delivered one of the seismic news events of the …
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net

And that, in a nutshell, is the definition of a micro-polygon engine. The cost in terms of GPU resources is likely to be very high, but with next-gen, there's the horsepower to pull it off and the advantages are self-evident. Rendering one triangle per pixel essentially means that performance scales closely with resolution. "Interestingly, it does work very well with our dynamic resolution technique as well," adds Penwarden. "So, when GPU load gets high we can lower the screen resolution a bit and then we can adapt to that. In the demo we actually did use dynamic resolution, although it ends up rendering at about 1440p most of the time."

Penwarden also confirms that the temporal accumulation system seen in Unreal Engine 4 - which essentially adds detail from prior frames to increase resolution in the current one - is also used in UE5 and in this demo. The transparency here from Epic is impressive. We've spent a long time poring over a range of 3840x2160 uncompressed PNG screenshots supplied by the firm. They defy pixel-counting, with resolution as a metric pretty much as meaningless as it is for, say, a Blu-ray movie. But temporal accumulation does so much more for UE5 than just anti-aliasing or image reconstruction - it underpins the Lumen GI system.
Click to expand...
www.eurogamer.net

This is next-gen: see Unreal Engine 5 running on PlayStation 5

We've seen the specs, we've heard the pitches - but what we haven't experienced is any demonstration of a genuine next-…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
 
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existensmaximum

existensmaximum

Member
3liteDragon said:
Well it’s upsampled to 4K through temporal injection, so it pretty much looks like native 4K with dynamic resolution enabled behind-the-scenes (but you’ll always see 4K since the upsampling is happening every frame).

The only reason people are saying the demo was running at 1440p is because of Epic’s transparency, otherwise no one would’ve been able to tell the difference lol.


www.eurogamer.net

Inside Unreal Engine 5: how Epic delivers its generational leap

Epic's reveal of Unreal Engine 5 running in real-time on PlayStation 5 delivered one of the seismic news events of the …
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net


www.eurogamer.net

This is next-gen: see Unreal Engine 5 running on PlayStation 5

We've seen the specs, we've heard the pitches - but what we haven't experienced is any demonstration of a genuine next-…
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know? That's exactly why I'm agreeing that 1440p can easily be more than enough, and native 4k is basically a waste of resources.

Someone claimed that you need native 4k resolution if you have a TV bigger than 55".
 
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D

DeltaPolarBear

Member
existensmaximum said:
Yeah, I have 0 interest in the XSX because of that. If Elder Scrolls VI wasn't on PC I would buy it without blinking, but now I have no reason whatsoever.

Unless.. They fuck it up. Pretty big risk of that. Fallout 76 for example is trash tier.
Click to expand...
If Elder Scroll 6 isn't on PC then the franchise dies.
The entire point of the game is the mods. Without mods there are better games out there.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Kyshakk said:
More like whelmed when that happens. Won't expect anything less.
Click to expand...

What will be worse, is if Microsoft doesn't sell significantly more units than in this current generation and once again starts divesting itself of these development teams. THAT would be a meltdown. Right now it's like the beginning of the NFL season- everyone can dream of winning the Super Bowl.
 
D

DeltaPolarBear

Member
Sinthor said:
What will be worse, is if Microsoft doesn't sell significantly more units than in this current generation and once again starts divesting itself of these development teams. THAT would be a meltdown. Right now it's like the beginning of the NFL season- everyone can dream of winning the Super Bowl.
Click to expand...
Still, if Xbox customers think TES without Mods would somehow convince a PC gamer to buy an Xbox to play it, they have another thing coming.
You literally don't see any Asian streams of Skyrim without the beauty mod, and mods that violate copyright are the bread and butter of the game (Like Thomas the tank engine Dragons). Also, there are the nudes.

None of it could be added to the Xbox console even if Bethesda wanted to. TES 6 without PC mods is not TES anymore, and no one is going to miss it. Just as Fallout 76 is really not Fallout anymore either. If you can't give the customer what they want, it doesn't matter if you bought the rights to the game. Xbox customers who never played on PC would not understand this.

TES that is not on PC would no longer be a draw.
 
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Snowdonhoffen

Snowdonhoffen

Member
Sinthor said:
What will be worse, is if Microsoft doesn't sell significantly more units than in this current generation and once again starts divesting itself of these development teams. THAT would be a meltdown. Right now it's like the beginning of the NFL season- everyone can dream of winning the Super Bowl.
Click to expand...
I remember seeing some time ago that in some Bethesda games half of the sales come from PlayStation consoles. So I think MS is really putting a lot of trust in their user base to make up for the potential losses in sales.
 
Sinthor

Sinthor

Gold Member
Snowdonhoffen said:
I remember seeing some time ago that in some Bethesda games half of the sales come from PlayStation consoles. So I think MS is really putting a lot of trust in their user base to make up for the potential losses in sales.
Click to expand...
Yes, very true. Just saw some numbers the other day on Fallout 4. PS4 was right behind PC, by less than a million. So that's a lot of sales they'll be hanging up. If they don't sell WAY more consoles than this generation and/or get a TON of GamePass subscribers, I don't think they'll be making consoles anymore. I'm already pretty sure they had decided to get out of it and then changed course back, which is why the XSX is running behind and they don't have any first party games that will be ready for what...3 or more years still? MAYBE 2? That plus the danger of cannibalizing their XSX sales with the Series S that they won't make as much money on. MS is gambling BIG on GamePass. But the clock's ticking, so they have to make it work and pay off pretty damn soon. MS has tons of money but they don't like losing bunches of it when they're not successfully taking over a market.
 
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
Tripolygon said:
Say it louder so the people in the back can hear you. This is getting ridiculous. Making slight changes from a base architecture does not make it a different architecture. PS4 Pro does not stop being Polaris based even though it had feature from Vega and even bespoke feature not found in any AMD GPUs.

We are literally a few weeks away from release and this stupid unproductive argument is going on about which GPU is the true RDNA 2 GPU. They are both custom GPUs based on RDNA 2 with slight tweaks. The fact that Microsoft chooses to run their CPU and GPU at a lower clock is because they have gone with how consoles are usually made. Lock GPU and CPU clock speed. Sony can clock high because they are not locking the clock speed, it is variable likewise AMD can clock high because in PCs, race to idle and variable frequency is used.
Click to expand...

Well, we will find out soon enough why there is a difference in clocks on these PC parts, nothing to do with consoles.

Navi 21 Lite 56 CU 1.9 GHz
Navi 22 44 CU 2.4 Ghz

Navi 22 is a biigger die than the 56 CU one RELATIVELY, and as such likely to have infinity cache.

So we will get all the pC information, and what differences mean for clocks and all will become clear.

The clock ah we stopped because we could and ps5 is not sustained narrative can be finally put to bed, with PC part information we will know exactly as AMD will explain why one 56 CU PC part is 1.9 and the other is 2.4 GHz..

Your post will likely not age well.

9 days......
 
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