Rea
Member
I think it's kind of a upscale technique that natively render resolution lower than 4k with dynamic scaling then use temporal injection technique to upscale to 4k.
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I think it's kind of a upscale technique that natively render resolution lower than 4k with dynamic scaling then use temporal injection technique to upscale to 4k.
kyliethicc
Member
Thanks, thats awesome. 4K CB at 60 Hz is gonna be a great way to play Spider-Miles and Ratchet.From my understanding it's not dynamic res, it's more like another way to do checkerboard rendering. Here's what an Insomniac dev said about it:
Source:
Insomniac Interview: The Tech Behind Marvel’s Spider-Man
Learn how @InsomniacGames taps into the power of PS4 and PS4 Pro to create a massive world that looks Amazing. #SpiderManPS4blog.playstation.com
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Snowdonhoffen
Member
Yes, so I guess... they could still be using some form of ray tracing even in the 60fps mode?
IllegalLemon
Member
Their finances are none of my concern, i just remarked on how good and optimised their RT algorithm is , that they're able to use it on a ps4 pro or xbox one x with very little problem. When it comes to financial mishaps though, that ain't my thing to discuss or get involved in, their upper management and financial department should answer for these sorts of problems, and that ain't in my realm.
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Alex Scott
Member
Maybe Jace Skell isn't lying.
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Rea
Member
Many people confused the higher the pixel, the higher the image quality. The truth is No. There are others metrics which affects image quality other than resolution. They just buy the highest resolution Tv and called it a day
I definitely think so, the reason why they might lock 30fps at native 4k is probably not because of ps5 can't handle, the cpu might has enough juice to hit 40 to 50 frames but not stable. So they lock at 30 to have smooth experience gameplay. When they use temporal injection technique, they might be able to hit 60fps with the same visual quality with optimization.
HAL-01
Member
As I’ve said way earlier I expect the 60fps/temporal injection mode to look near identical to the native mode and be THE way to play. The 4K/30 mode being almost a formality, to keep the 4K purists at bay. Next generation upscaling techniques are the future
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CrysisFreak
Banned
We don't know but I think it's possible that we will. They can scale RT resolution just like they can scale rendering resolution.
It would be kind of a shame if the RT hardware didn't do anything at all in the 60fps mode wouldn't it...
Snowdonhoffen
Member
Oh, man, if they have an upgraded temporal injection technique that looks even better than it does today I think we are in for a treat. 4K/60 with RT? that sounds insane for a console.
DrDamn
Member
As already discussed "out of position". That's a different meaning - and in terms of a console which is most powerful, then being a little more expensive is not "out of position" is it? I think that is what they originally planned - XSX demonstrably more powerful based on what they thought Sony were doing, priced $50-100 more, and the XSS at least $100 maybe $200 less than PS5. In practice I think they've been surprised by what Sony have achieved. They are still more powerful, but actually demonstrating that is not so obvious to the general consumer aside from the numbers being touted.
zaitsu
Banned
I think we are getting annaucment of show in next week, im so tired of waiting.
HAL-01
Member
Temporal injection itself benefits from the jump to 60fps. It uses data over many frames to reconstruct an image to 4K, so having double the sample rate will make for a crisper upscale, without even factoring in any other improvements
DrDamn
Member
Minor point but KZ Shadowfall didn't use checker board and nobody seemed to know that cunning techniques were afoot until Guerrilla told them. They used interlacing with information from the previous frame used in the next to interpolate.
DF Making of KZSF Nov 2013 - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-making-of-killzone-shadow-fall - no mention of MP temporal upscale techniques
Temporal upscale not discussed until March 2014 when it all kicked off with the "we were duped" idiots - https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-in-theory-1080p30-or-720p60
zubairali2
Member
most likely we'll start to see things spice next week (I HOPE) but i feel as though microsoft will announce their price first
$600 is my prediction
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
Damn, Sony schooling MS about how to do next gen strategy with just 3 paragraphs and 4 bullet points...
TheGreatWhiteShark
Member
temporal injection is a method where you keep previous frame info and render only a small portion of the next one. it needs heavy AA and blur to be convincing.
Insomniac have become masters of it. both ps4 ratchet and clank and spiderman are using it. probably ratchet ps5 too, and maybe thats part of the reason I didnt like the excessive blur on motion.
here you can see it on spiderman. watch how when you rotate the camera and spidey is not visible, blue hue is left on the far skyscrapers, or if you cant spot that, look at how the skyscrapers appear as part of his uniform at first when you move the camera and he is back on view:
gif is 50% speed
while image quality goes up with resolution, as with everything else, the higher you go the more you get into dimishing returns. 4k for actual native rendering will be good for quite a while. also, the more information you have the BETTER upscaling works because the upscaling has more information to calculate off. That means that 4k -> upscaled to 8k will be FAR better then 1080p content upscaled to 4k content and 1080p content upscaled by one of the best scalers found in LG and Sony high end tvs already is a real transformation. So i wouldnt mind even the PS6 being still 4k but has a hell of a scaler integrated to get to very nice 8k resolution. There are still quite a few artefacts visible in 4k because of how we calculate our game pictures. If you watch a 4k game and compare it to a 4k movie. The movie has FAR LESS artefacts.
So yeah, IQ means alot of things. Resolution is the easiest "slider" to understand and is one i enjoy to be very high.
Refresh rate also is a part of IQ, for Console games that are played with a Controller im perfectly fine with 60fps/hz. For more direct Input like m+k even 144hz is not enough.
Its not exactly how it looks, its more how you feel your Input being represented in the game.
So yeah, IQ means alot of things. Resolution is the easiest "slider" to understand and is one i enjoy to be very high.
Refresh rate also is a part of IQ, for Console games that are played with a Controller im perfectly fine with 60fps/hz. For more direct Input like m+k even 144hz is not enough.
Its not exactly how it looks, its more how you feel your Input being represented in the game.
SSfox
Member
The Medium, AC Valhalla, Watch Dogs: Legion, Yakuza: Like a Dragon (not even 4K), Scarlet Nexus all have no 60fps mode:
Xbox Series X | Xbox
Discover the fastest, most powerful Xbox ever with the Xbox Series X.www.xbox.com
It's like AC Valhalla is trying hard to give me more reasons to not buy it
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Rea
Member
Alright man. My bad.
zaitsu
Banned
Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 SSD released with a read speed of 7000 MB/s
Samsung 980 Pro SSD was announced at CES 2020, Samsung finally launched the 980 Pro PCle 4.0 SSD with reading speed up to 7000 MB per second
www.google.com
Probably 300$-400$
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Dodkrake
Banned
That gameplay section is likely scripted, so it can be replicated. What scripted means here is that instead of you having a person holding a remote to run through it, you tell the computer to do what you want it to happen on screen.
It's still gameplay, but you can compare the same frame over time in the exact same spot.
SSfox
Member
Yeah i agree, 8K shouldn't be a focus even in the next generation after PS5/XSX
DrDamn
Member
They tend to render at least 50% of the new frame - not a small part.
From PS4 ... https://blog.playstation.com/2018/09/06/insomniac-interview-the-tech-behind-marvels-spider-man/amp/
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
Darklor01
Might need to stop sniffing glue
PS5 expansion SSD starting to show on market.Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 SSD released with a read speed of 7000 MB/s
Samsung 980 Pro SSD was announced at CES 2020, Samsung finally launched the 980 Pro PCle 4.0 SSD with reading speed up to 7000 MB per second
Probably 300$-400$
FFS, I knew it wouldn’t be cheap, but, most of the cost of the console itself to get 1tb... I guess the only game I’ll hopefully be able to fit on there is Call of Duty. Maybe.
There’s going to be a lot of deleting games off the system for me for a while it looks like.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
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kyliethicc
Member
No price has been announced yet, but I bet the 980 Pro 512 GB will be $200-$250. Wait til like 2022 and it should be around $150 on sale.PS5 expansion SSD starting to show on market.Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 SSD released with a read speed of 7000 MB/s
Samsung 980 Pro SSD was announced at CES 2020, Samsung finally launched the 980 Pro PCle 4.0 SSD with reading speed up to 7000 MB per second
Probably 300$-400$
DeltaPolarBear
Member
This.
I have never stopped telling anyone who cared to listen, that it is the responsibility of 1st party games to squeeze every bit of power out of the console. That third party games are just too lazy and would only do a good enough job to have a marketable product for all the different consoles.
Xbox fans, however, always claimed that it doesn't matter if there are no first party games, because third party games make more money. This, of course, ignores the fact that the goal of first party games is to be a marketing tool for the console.
Now Series X basically has no 1st party Series X games that can really show what the console could do, for the next two years. And they are somehow counting on third party games to make games that look good enough to make Series X stand out.
That.. Is a long shot. We know from history that Third Party games really, really don't push the envelope. That unless one of the two consoles have a design flaw (like with PS3 architecture), there is not going to be major differences between PS5 and Series X third party games.
Xbox Division basically kneecapped Series X on their own. It wouldn't be as bad as that happened to Atari Jaguar, but the story is the same; if you can't show your power, the power might as well not be there.
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sircaw
Banned
Don't worry we just went through a tunnel
We might have lost
Gamernyc78
but his spirit still lives on,
Md Ray
Member
What happened to him?We might have lost
Zoro7
Banned
He had stage 2 fanboyism. Deadly that.
sircaw
Banned
he made a lot of Microsoft flight sim fans upset.
SSfox
Member
The most wise thing to do, at least for those who will buy PS5 early is to just manage themselves with 800GB of PS5 for 2 years, after 2 years i expect those SSD will be a lot more cheaper, like around 150-200 buck for 1 T max. Games shouldn't be that huge considering devs won't have to dupe datas to improve loading times, and there will also be an option to choose to delete online/solo separately which also be a big storage space saver.
For those who won't buy PS5 in the first year, then should go for a PS5 model with more storage, i would expect Sony will release a model in that kind in year? it will of course be more expensive but probably a better deal in terms of budget than buying PS5 + new SSD
Rea
Member
He poked hornet's nest!
saintjules
Member
Private video in the Latin America channel again. The last one was that recent PS5 ad
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sircaw
Banned
no, he used a baseball bat and smashed it to pieces.
I know your out there, watching, listening
Gamernyc78
. Dedicated to you.
danielJackson
Banned
Agnostic2020
Member
Damn insomniac has improved the game raytracing big time from 2 months ago
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Sethbacca
Member
PS5 expansion SSD starting to show on market.Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 SSD released with a read speed of 7000 MB/s
Samsung 980 Pro SSD was announced at CES 2020, Samsung finally launched the 980 Pro PCle 4.0 SSD with reading speed up to 7000 MB per second
Probably 300$-400$
Look how quickly the cost of SSDs have dropped over the last few years. If anything, ps5 promotion of these drives will drop the cost like a rock as manufacturers start shipping them by the boatload. It's initial sticker shock that will go away after a year or two.
In the long term it should be significantly less expensive than the proprietary MS solution.
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Gediminas
Banned
no one likes reality check
sircaw
Banned
no one likes reality check
I have been told by a certain poster on this forum, that he is a chief architect in spreading fud. I will not mention that posters name.
He is a regular old user too
Bergoglio
Member
Damn insomniac has improved the game raytracing big time from 2 months ago
Good. There’s some hope for Halo then
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Not until you correct your avatar, that's Jack not Dr. Jackson
DeltaPolarBear
Member
Halo Infinite didn't even have any ray tracing planned at launch. And the original R&C video never claimed to be bad. the only attack against it was claiming it had to be fake because it looked too good.
The issue with Halo Infinite is that it was always meant to be an Xbox One game. And that it was pretending to be something it wasn't, so it never had a chance of succeeding. Last i checked, it is STILL an Xbox One title, until proven otherwise.
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Vroadstar
Member
Ray traced Craig confirmed...
yewles1
Member
DF aren't the only pixel counters around, we wouldn't have been able to figure out what was going on if the guys at Beyond 3D didn't figure it out first. I was there when they first called it "horizontal interlacing" before we got the official Temporal Reprojection name.
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