• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

RT logo has been removed 'The Medium' (Up: Bloober confirm RT 100%, logo removal a 'mistake')

And it's not worth. Not always realistic illumination wins. There are shaders with RT for Minecraft Java that look far better than what MS has shown because they are authored in some way.

A really big sacrifice was made to get a simple game like Minecraft to run with full path raytracing. That was the drop in resolution to 1080P with an unstable 60FPs. I don't have hopes that vastly more complicated games can handle that level of Ray Tracing.

What should happen is that developers should use something like DLSS to get good ray tracing effects and still have the image look relatively clean on high resolution displays.
 

GHG

Gold Member
These are directly from the gameplay trailer:


K1zvAFm.png




DuHuqCS.png


zMoMHuQ.png

Sup Meirl.

I've missed your cherry picked screenshots, your misinformation and your trolling ways.

Welcome back again.
 
A really big sacrifice was made to get a simple game like Minecraft to run with full path raytracing. That was the drop in resolution to 1080P with an unstable 60FPs. I don't have hopes that vastly more complicated games can handle that level of Ray Tracing.

What should happen is that developers should use something like DLSS to get good ray tracing effects and still have the image look relatively clean on high resolution displays.
Yes. What I'm trying to say is that fully ray tracing is not the be all end all that people think it is, not always reallistic illumination is desired. Games like RDR2 and HZD have gorgeous illumination because it was authored. Of course RT can easy the load on devs when they want reallistic illumination, but this isn't what they always want or not at the price of performance it costs.

That's why some games will mix and match RT features like shadows, reflections, GI.
 
Last edited:

Hunnybun

Member
Guys if you care so much for visual, just play on PC and stop complain. You ALL know there isn't a better place for graphic whore than PC.

But if you want to play on console because it's easier (big lol on this) or because you want to play on your couch with your TV (another big lol here), just buy a console and stop complain about graphics.
Next gen games are going to be very pretty, just enjoy things and stop bitching.

I know this wont be useful because... well people tend to act like they own the company they defend but still, it feels good to say it from time to time.

I don't think it's as clear cut as this. Sony's first parties produce visuals well in advance of pretty much any third parties, so it's a debatable point where you get the best experience with them not being available on PC.

To me, something like Uncharted 4 looks better than Control on PC, even with full RT and ultra settings.

Even if the PC's marginally better, I'd still have to spend like $2k for that small benefit.
 

FeiRR

Banned
A really big sacrifice was made to get a simple game like Minecraft to run with full path raytracing. That was the drop in resolution to 1080P with an unstable 60FPs. I don't have hopes that vastly more complicated games can handle that level of Ray Tracing.

What should happen is that developers should use something like DLSS to get good ray tracing effects and still have the image look relatively clean on high resolution displays.
Are you joking? It maybe hits 20. Average is probably 15 or lower.
 
Yes. What I'm trying to say is that fully ray tracing is not the be all end all that people think it is, not always reallistic illumination is desired. Games like RDR2 and HZD have gorgeous illumination because it was authored. Of course RT can easy the load on devs when they want reallistic illumination, but this isn't what they always want or not at the price of performance it costs.

That's why some games will mix and match RT features like shadows, reflections, GI.

On a side note I've read that global Illumination can produce similar results to ray tracing at a fraction of the cost. It would be a good idea for developers to use it.
 

Jigsaah

Gold Member
It seems like developers from 3rd parties need some more practice with the devkits. At some point I see a raytracing option for most games but I don't really think Raytracing is all that important right now. Prior to raytracing, games have had awesome lighting.

Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but if performace is at risk, I just don't know if it's worth the hit.
 

longdi

Banned
eh, so we just looking at some random reddit post?

at least show us the before and after screenshot of said page. 🤷‍♀️
 

Mr Moose

Member
It seems like developers from 3rd parties need some more practice with the devkits. At some point I see a raytracing option for most games but I don't really think Raytracing is all that important right now. Prior to raytracing, games have had awesome lighting.

Maybe I just don't know what I'm missing, but if performace is at risk, I just don't know if it's worth the hit.
And 343i.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rea

Fake

Member
Native 4k and RT just ain't happening on these consoles.

Pick one and live with it.

Even on PC we need DLSS to save our arses in RT titles, and that's even at resolutions well below 4k.

Thomas Morgan from Digital Foundry pixel count the R&C gameplay and indeed is running at native 4K30 using RT. I guess first party studios from both Sony/Microsoft we can expect that.
 
Last edited:

Mister Wolf

Member
The most suspect thing is them not mentioning what raytracing they were using in the first place. Even the first games Metro, Tomb Raider, Battlefield, etc we knew months before their release just how exactly they would use raytracing. They were even demoing it.
 

Mr Moose

Member
The most suspect thing is them not mentioning what raytracing they were using in the first place. Even the first games Metro, Tomb Raider, Battlefield, etc we knew months before their release just how exactly they would use raytracing. They were even demoing it.
Shadows and shit probably. Reflections on glass/water, maybe sound.
 

FeiRR

Banned
I didn't know it was that bad. I thought it was just an unstable 60FPS but not with dips that low.
Look closely at 3:00, 3:25 and around 4:00. I smelt something was wrong when he was walking around without RT, then switched it on and didn't move. That's like the worst way to showcase a game, unless you're trying to hide something. Also the footage he shows in between (provided by Microsoft) seems suspicious. It shows very slow fly-bys with jittering. DF said something like "we see jittering but we were ensured by Microsoft that it's just the video". Right, a company like Microsoft doesn't know how capture simple animation...
 

Mister Wolf

Member
Shadows and shit probably. Reflections on glass/water, maybe sound.

The only time I've ever seen raytraced reflections be relevant is Control given the nature of its environment. Using it for reflections isn't impressive especially is you're culling/omitting objects that can be reflected.
 

Mentat02

Banned
not surprising its still on PC, Nvidia has been beta testing RT for almost 2 years now. RT is pretty shoddy in performance, anyone expecting the next gen consoles to have no problem with RT will be in for a surprise. I'm pretty sure the series X would catch fire if it tried to run Control RT medium settings at 4K.
 
I'd be surprised if it was taken off, but then again I wouldn't be. Given how little time any of these dev's have had with actual hardware, it's bound to happen. I don't think any of the games coming to either platform in the first year or two is a good representation of what they can really do... but other than that, please continue with your fun!
 

Mister Wolf

Member
not surprising its still on PC, Nvidia has been beta testing RT for almost 2 years now. RT is pretty shoddy in performance, anyone expecting the next gen consoles to have no problem with RT will be in for a surprise. I'm pretty sure the series X would catch fire if it tried to run Control RT medium settings at 4K.

The next gen ports of Control is what I'm really waiting for to see what these new consoles can actually do. Knowing Remedy they wont have it ready this year though.
 

GHG

Gold Member
The only time I've ever seen raytraced reflections be relevant is Control given the nature of its environment. Using it for reflections isn't impressive especially is you're culling/omitting objects that can be reflected.

The ray traced reflections in deliver us the moon are also very very nice. Completely changes the atmosphere in some scenes.
 

Kagero

Member
Again, overly hyped feature. I can barely tell the difference between games with it and without it.
 

splattered

Member
Unfortunately Sony and MS just weren't fully ready for next gen and i'm not gonna blame it on the pandemic. I think they both took too long on their dev kits and tools and first wave of next gen games are going to suffer for it.

Yes some are still going to look great but i feel like they could have been so much better if they had gotten dev kits out a year earlier.
 

KyoZz

Tag, you're it.
I don't think it's as clear cut as this. Sony's first parties produce visuals well in advance of pretty much any third parties, so it's a debatable point where you get the best experience with them not being available on PC.

To me, something like Uncharted 4 looks better than Control on PC, even with full RT and ultra settings.

Even if the PC's marginally better, I'd still have to spend like $2k for that small benefit.

Sony's output for this gen was incredible, no doubt about that.
 

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue


Fully pathtraced Minecraft being played live. Not some trailer.


Alright. 1.. however, .. not presented during the last presentation. It counts.

Just to mention, I'm not trying to say the XSX isn't the most powerful console or anything negative about the system.. just to be clear.

What I'm trying to point out is, just about everything in the PS5 Games event was at least captured using a PS5. What I read into your comment was that you're implying what is seen from PS5 shown games as nothing but cut scenes, which just isn't true.
You're also willing to just throw out a comment like you did in a way which is clearly designed to incite reaction, all the while, knowing that the only thing we've seeing running on an XSX is Minecraft. Regardless of what I think of Minecraft, is that the backup you want to go with? Nothing in the XSX Event was captured on or running on an XSX, and you're willing to throw shade on the competing platform? Come on.

Some games, running on or captures on a PS5, including Ratchet and Clank have at least some form of ray tracing.
Just watch this video from The Cherno:


He talks about what he sees going on in the game.. which has gameplay, from a PS5. In this case, a game, with gameplay using RT to whatever degree it does, captured on a PS5 with gameplay.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom