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Rumor RT logo has been removed 'The Medium' (Up: Bloober confirm RT 100%, logo removal a 'mistake')

itsjustJEFF

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You can see the tricks already like the RT reflections in GT7 are just 25% of native resolution and that’s just for a single use of RT. I doubt we’ll see many AAA games use it for techniques such as GI which is a real shame considering how great Metro Exodus looked with RT Global Illumination.
I think UE5 could be a very popular engine this coming generation. Especially if they can deliver on the promise of Lumin! Nearly imperceptible difference between their lighting solution and real RT at the cost they are touting... If you can get the same results at a much lower cost, why not? At that point you're just using RT so you can slap that icon on the box.
 
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Look closely at 3:00, 3:25 and around 4:00. I smelt something was wrong when he was walking around without RT, then switched it on and didn't move. That's like the worst way to showcase a game, unless you're trying to hide something. Also the footage he shows in between (provided by Microsoft) seems suspicious. It shows very slow fly-bys with jittering. DF said something like "we see jittering but we were ensured by Microsoft that it's just the video". Right, a company like Microsoft doesn't know how capture simple animation...
At this point I want MS to take a stock XSX, plug it in and run those demos to see the truth. We are at less than 4 months til launch and they have so little content running on real hardware!!!
 

Hunnybun

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The next gen ports of Control is what I'm really waiting for to see what these new consoles can actually do. Knowing Remedy they wont have it ready this year though.
Aren't proper next gen games built from the ground up for the consoles a better measure of what they can actually do?

All the Control ports will tell us is how powerful they are compared to PC graphics cards, ceteris paribus, something we already have a pretty good idea of.

But it's the amazing amount of performance that can be squeezed out of the consoles by developers which is where they shine.
 
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Unfortunately Sony and MS just weren't fully ready for next gen and i'm not gonna blame it on the pandemic. I think they both took too long on their dev kits and tools and first wave of next gen games are going to suffer for it.

Yes some are still going to look great but i feel like they could have been so much better if they had gotten dev kits out a year earlier.
I don't think Sony had any issues sending out developer kits.



It was a long time ago when we first got news that 3rd parties had them. So I don't think developer kits was an issue that Sony had. Also add to the fact that we saw games running on the PS5 doesn't indicate that they weren't ready for next gen.
 
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I don't think Sony had any issues sending out developer kits.



It was a long time ago when we first got news that 3rd parties had them. So I don't think developer kits was an issue that Sony had. Also add to the fact that we saw games running on the PS5 doesn't indicate that they weren't ready for next gen.
Yep, they were demoing to Wired in Silver Tower devkits way back in early 2019.
 

Mister Wolf

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Aren't proper next gen games built from the ground up for the consoles a better measure of what they can actually do?

All the Control ports will tell us is how powerful they are compared to PC graphics cards, ceteris paribus, something we already have a pretty good idea of.

But it's the amazing amount of performance that can be squeezed out of the consoles by developers which is where they shine.
Control will tell us how well they handle raytracing because it features raytraced lighting, shadows, and reflections. Will give a clear gauge on how they handle RT. The proper next gen games they've shown aren't even doing raytraced reflections on the same level as Battlefield.
 
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Hunnybun

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Control will tell us how well they handle raytracing because it features raytraced lighting, shadows, and reflections. Will give a clear gauge on how they handle RT. The proper next gen games they've shown aren't even doing raytraced reflections on the same level as Battlefield.
Oh, sure, in terms of pure RT performance, that's something we're not really sure of yet.
 
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Lol i find it funny that after all this time worrying about the ps5 not having hardware rt, we didn't see a single game using rt on the xsx.

I still think that xsx will have better rt performance in third party games
I used to think that, but given that beyond the low performance Minecraft demo we have seen none of it... I'm really starting to wonder what's going on at the xbox HQ.
Not a problem. Stable performance trumps prettier lighting.
While in the abstract I agree, the point of the 12Tf was to have both.
What was the raytracing going to be used for anyway?
Probably reflections or shadows, or indirect lighting... who knows? The point is the console is about to be released and they have to remove it from the xbox console build.
PCs dont have the fancy I/O of xsx and PS5 and they can handle ray tracing just fine.
I/O can help visuals, but not in this way. It will let better quality assets be downloaded to memory much faster, and often...
btw, did they say if it was running on the xsx? or just PC?
XSX sub 30fps 1080p... I think it was the first console RT demo released.
Native 4k and RT just ain't happening on these consoles.
I assume it depends what effect and to what quality (if you run the RT at lower resolution, like in the GranTourismo demo you techincally have a native 4k image with half resolution reflections +
GT7 is native 4k 60 fps with rt reflections.
The RT effects were quarter resolution (1080p), assuming the game runs at 60+ fps it would still be a pretty good solution).
 
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Ratchet is a 2021 game
GT7 doesn'T have a release date
Demons Souls doesnt have a release date

Spiderman is using PS4 assets, so not really a complete new game.


Tell me a single NEW PS5 (not a standalone dlc game) launch game that uses RT on PS5.
They were still able to show them much more than any actual xbox series x game--all running on actual PS5 hardware, with RT in right now AND good performance.
 

Boswollocks

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I agree that teraflops is overrated but either the system has the GPU and CPU they say it has, or it doesn’t. And if it doesn’t, that’s a problem, although I don’t know why MS would make shit up. I’m not talking about nonsense in the speculation thread about teraflop efficiency, but just the basic numbers.

The one thing I will say is that we are a few months from release and have no idea how AMD is implementing RT as none of their PC Cards do it yet. If this was Nvidia we would know. So I do think WRT ray tracing, it’s a good question just what to expect from these consoles.
Fair point, but without going 'secret sauce' we know that Cerny has helped design the GPU with AMD and purely by proximity, that means that the GPU will run more efficiently on PS5 because Cerny helped design it and the GPU. I'm not saying that the PS5 will be more powerful, not at all, i just think it will be more efficient (not trying to buzzword, i just can't think of an alternative) where as MS may have to be more number crunching.

On top of that, i still remember, very vividly, the start of this gen, on this very forum, where Albert Penello was spouting power of the cloud, Directx10 making up for the lack of power and a whole host of other blatant lies from Microsoft. I'm not saying they're doing it again this time around but...it's getting harder and harder to deny that they may be having problems.

We'll see i suppose.
 

BlueXImpulse

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JTCx

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Fair point, but without going 'secret sauce' we know that Cerny has helped design the GPU with AMD and purely by proximity, that means that the GPU will run more efficiently on PS5 because Cerny helped design it and the GPU. I'm not saying that the PS5 will be more powerful, not at all, i just think it will be more efficient (not trying to buzzword, i just can't think of an alternative) where as MS may have to be more number crunching.

On top of that, i still remember, very vividly, the start of this gen, on this very forum, where Albert Penello was spouting power of the cloud, Directx10 making up for the lack of power and a whole host of other blatant lies from Microsoft. I'm not saying they're doing it again this time around but...it's getting harder and harder to deny that they may be having problems.

We'll see i suppose.
This is what it comes down to, efficiency. Teraflops are just theoretical raw output. Real performance is measured in optimization of all systems as a whole, how they balance their workload.
 
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I think UE5 could be a very popular engine this coming generation. Especially if they can deliver on the promise of Lumin! Nearly imperceptible difference between their lighting solution and real RT at the cost they are touting... If you can get the same results at a much lower cost, why not? At that point you're just using RT so you can slap that icon on the box.
Indeed, Lumin is very exciting although it seems a while off. As always it will be interesting to see if the final product lives up to the tech demos! That demo looked genuinely 4k and it was running at just 1440p so that was be a a great alternative to DLSS 2.0 for all platforms too.
 
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diffusionx

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Fair point, but without going 'secret sauce' we know that Cerny has helped design the GPU with AMD and purely by proximity, that means that the GPU will run more efficiently on PS5 because Cerny helped design it and the GPU. I'm not saying that the PS5 will be more powerful, not at all, i just think it will be more efficient (not trying to buzzword, i just can't think of an alternative) where as MS may have to be more number crunching.

On top of that, i still remember, very vividly, the start of this gen, on this very forum, where Albert Penello was spouting power of the cloud, Directx10 making up for the lack of power and a whole host of other blatant lies from Microsoft. I'm not saying they're doing it again this time around but...it's getting harder and harder to deny that they may be having problems.

We'll see i suppose.
Right, MS was making shit up about secret sauce (although ironically, we have a literal power of the cloud game now, in 2020, at the end of the generation), but they didn’t lie about the specs, and the system performed exactly the way you’d expect given the specs.

I don’t believe there is any secret sauce anywhere these days, RT is just a big question mark considering it’s AMD hardware, and the limited way it has been shown even on PS5 tells me it’s probably not going to be big on console this gen which is disappointing considering how it’s quickly advancing on PC side.
 

itsjustJEFF

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Indeed, Lumin is very exciting although it seems a while off. As always it will be interesting to see if the final product lives up to the tech demos! That demo looked genuinely 4k and it was running at just 1440p so that was be a a great alternative to DLSS 2.0 for all platforms too.
Good point, it did look very sharp. Did they reveal what kind of upscaling technique they were using to get those results? Could be real good alternative to DLSS 2.0, at least at first glance anyway.
 

Lethal01

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Yes. What I'm trying to say is that fully ray tracing is not the be all end all that people think it is
For most modern games it is though, you have just as much control over ray traced lights as you do fake ones except raytraced light are far more flexible and consistent.
 
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Boswollocks

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Right, MS was making shit up about secret sauce (although ironically, we have a literal power of the cloud game now, in 2020, at the end of the generation), but they didn’t lie about the specs, and the system performed exactly the way you’d expect given the specs.

I don’t believe there is any secret sauce anywhere these days, RT is just a big question mark considering it’s AMD hardware, and the limited way it has been shown even on PS5 tells me it’s probably not going to be big on console this gen which is disappointing considering how it’s quickly advancing on PC side.
Penello did lie about the specs, on this forum. He was called out by some of the geeks (which sadly aren't on here anymore) because the numbers of what he was saying were bullshit. He claimed, over and over, that Directx10 would make up for a 30% difference in power.

Anyway, on the bright-side for gamers, hopefully console RT is dead in the water. Playing Forza on the X and looking how good the lighting is, even on these old CPU's, makes me wonder why we're even considering full RT. It isn't needed, at all.

Hopefully MS and Sony put their dicks down for two minutes and both agree to cancel RT and put the resources in to physics, AI, destruction etc. I've said it a few times but not having a game do destruction as well as Bad Company 2, in 2020, is borderline fucking criminal.
 

Lethal01

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I think UE5 could be a very popular engine this coming generation. Especially if they can deliver on the promise of Lumin! Nearly imperceptible difference between their lighting solution and real RT at the cost they are touting...
Let's not go crazy, RT would give Lumen a very noticeably different look. I think it looks fantastic, but I also think RDR2 looked fantastic, doesn't mean it couldn't look 50x better.

However, I'm very happy that there are alternative solutions while we are making it less expensive.
 
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Patterson

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geordiemp

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Look the x1x is a fantastic console that proved to me that MS engineers arent hacks. XSX looks to be even better designed.

I think Watch Dogs RT will be a good first test and most likely a good barometer for the gen going forward similar to CoD Ghosts and BF4 at the start of this gen. If there are any problems they will show right away, but I highly doubt it. The RDNA 2.0 card in the xsx should have enough power to brute force anything. PCs dont have the fancy I/O of xsx and PS5 and they can handle ray tracing just fine.
So Halo RT just wait - nope....

Er em, Medium RT - nope

Whhhats next , watchdogs.

Must be Covid only affecting people working on XSX, that must be it.
 

itsjustJEFF

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Let's not go crazy, RT would give Lumen a very noticeably different look. I think it looks fantastic, but I also think RDR2 looked fantastic, doesn't mean it couldn't look 50x better.
However, I'm very happy that there are alternative solutions while we are making it less expensive.
Not trying to get crazy here, but do we even have examples of a game, out and running, that has RT GI? I personally have never seen it, but I'm not a PC guy. What I do know is that the UE5 demo looked fantastic. As a simp I just remember seeing that demo and never once did I think about RT, i just thought... wow that looks great. Would it look better with RT? Of course, but do we even know what that would look like?
 

ultrazilla

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Not trying to get crazy here, but do we even have examples of a game, out and running, that has RT GI? I personally have never seen it, but I'm not a PC guy. What I do know is that the UE5 demo looked fantastic. As a simp I just remember seeing that demo and never once did I think about RT, i just thought... wow that looks great. Would it look better with RT? Of course, but do we even know what that would look like?
Battlefield 5 has RTX support and after the numerous patches, it's now much better in terms of performance.
 
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CamHostage

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Yeah I think so too and Mark Cerny mentioned this in the Road to PS5 but he also said he saw a fully raytraced game running on PS5 🤔 I wonder which game it'll be
Heh, maybe it was a really nice PS5 version of Minecraft...

(*Probably not Minecraft, he was talking about complexity that I assume goes beyond this game, but still, it's funny to think of both companies looking at this one game on their box and going, "Huzzah!")

Also, Cerny sounded very dismissive of RT back in March... maybe he knows what’s up.
It was a combination of dismissive and confident (which may line up with what's going on with Xbox, that it'll take time to harness with early/WIP hardware?) As EmpireStrikesBack said, he said that he's "starting to get quite bullish", but saying he's only "starting" to find optimism for using it on hardware that's done and was due to ship in 8 months kind of made it seem like a distant hope still. We got a better idea of where game developers are with this new hardware in the PS5 showcase (and to a lesser extend the Xbox One showcase... or maybe we got more of an idea out of the Xbox show, just not the idea we were hoping for,) but it sounds like even though we've been talking about RT for a while and have graphics cards that can do it to X degree, these are still early days for it on new consoles.
 
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Lethal01

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Of course, but do we even know what that would look like?
Battlefield 5 has RTX support and after the numerous patches, it's now much better in terms of performance.
Would it look better with RT? Of course, but do we even know what that would look like?
For an example of just having raytraced GI.
Metro Exodus,

For ray tracing in general
Control,
I'm also just comparing model and enivronments I render in real time vs ray traced for movies,game etc.
Somtimes the effect can be subtle especially when you aren't creating with raytracing in mind, but extremly often it's super pronounced.
 
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