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[Explosive Zombie]

Games need to return to black-and-white morality

Tales of good vs. evil are more relevant than ever

www.polygon.com

Archive link for those who don't want Polygon to profit off your clicks... http://archive.vn/L0OV2

 

[stranno]

Games need to return to auto-aiming.
-Polygon.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Aaaaaand this is why narrative-driven, production-value driven videogames are doomed.

Games are not for preaching, unless you're a modern journo who got kicked out of the commune.

 

[The Cartographer]

http://archive.vn/L0OV2

Edit: Holy cringe at the last section of the article!

We see this in modern politics all the time. Politicians who take away healthcare are just doing their jobs, while those protesting against them for making medication unaffordable are framed as uncivil and dangerous. It’s disingenuous to claim that both sides are equally at fault; one group is championing civil rights or access to healthcare while the other is looking out for their own interests.

 

[zeorhymer]

Actually, that opinion piece flies in the face of the actual Polygon review. The actual review bashes ND because the story treats the audience as children. Always saying that murder is bad. Polygon isn't that bad. I nominate Kotaku being the literal worst.

 

[Abear21]

How about the critics let the real talent do what they want

 

[VN1X]

Games need to return to black-and-white morality

Tales of good vs. evil are more relevant than ever

www.polygon.com

Just a link? No context as to why you think "Polygon is literally the worst"?

 

[01011001]

Actually, that opinion piece flies in the face of the actual Polygon review. The actual review bashes ND because the story treats the audience as children. Always saying that murder is bad. Polygon isn't that bad. I nominate Kotaku being the literal worst.

you're comparing 2 of the absolute worst. who cares who is actually worse of these 2, they both should be avoided by any chance

 

[JonnyMP3]

Thought Polygon was on the shit list since the Arthur Gies days?

 

[Virex]

You are basically just stating the obvious

 

[30yearsofhurt]

If something starts with a title of "[NOUN] needs to [VERB]" 9 times out of 10 you can ignore it.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Just a link? No context as to why you think "Polygon is literally the worst"?

Black and white morality is for children's stories.

 

[hyperbertha]

The more attention you give them the more they thrive. Just ignore the clickbait because that's all it is.

 

[RasAlGhoul]

Not even going to give that site of basement bloggers the click.

 

[SlicedBread3]

"Oh wait, those games with the messages about trying to understand the viewpoints of people we dislike, also applies to me? I've changed my mind I don't like those games anymore"

 

[diffusionx]

Of course, this would only be acceptable of a group of people - say, just as a hypothetical, Polygon editors - determined what in the story is good and what in the story is bad.

This article is just demanding every game be a SJW morality play that reinforces their own ideology. In other words, it's the same thing they have been demanding for years. These are people with a cartoonish view of the world, where everyone who does not agree with them is evil, and that's what they want reflected in their fiction.

 

[Ceallach]

I actually agree with that tho. Fucking tired of stupid edgelord bullshit. Not everyone has to be Stone Cold Steve Austin.

 

[LittleBigGamer]

I stopped liking Black and white morality at my 16.
Now I am nearly 40. What's wrong with polygon?

 

[Abriael_GN]

Games need to return to black-and-white morality

Tales of good vs. evil are more relevant than ever

www.polygon.com

The real issue with this article is that it's massively ignorant. Whether the writer is just out of touch or does it on purpose, I don't know.

Games with black and white morality have never, ever gone anywhere. There are plenty of them. Maybe this writer should simply broaden their gaming horizons.

I wish improvised "journalists" stopped making false assumptions to prove irrelevant points.

We can have both. We SHOULD have both, and we already have both.

 

[Dick Jones]

I actually agree with that tho. Fucking tired of stupid edgelord bullshit. Not everyone has to be Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Don't be giving them ideas for the next article

 

[Ban Puncher]

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

I actually agree with that tho. Fucking tired of stupid edgelord bullshit. Not everyone has to be Stone Cold Steve Austin.

How many badass protagonists do we honestly have? I count Master Chief and Doom guy.

 

[Woggleman]

How about developers make the kind of games they want and people can decide whether or not it is their cup of tea? There are plenty of games with a hero and villain kind of story if that is what you want. I told people that the moral greyness of TLOU2 flies in the face of the black and white morality of SJWs but people will continue to call it woke propaganda.

 

[Yams]

It's an opinion piece. Opinion pieces are meant to counterbalance the publishers own position or push people to think about an issue in a way they may not be comfortable with. I didn't really care for the article but that's fine. Reading content that doesn't just reinforces your own bias is a good thing.

 

[Jeeves]

When your worldview has reached the point where it's less realistic than fiction, it's time to reexamine that worldview.

 

[Esca]

I never understood why people go to their site. It's drivel

 

[Vaelka]

How do these websites even stay afloat still?
Who the hell even reads them unironically?

I just have such a hard time believing that they have enough of an audience to actually hire people and keep everything going.
Even IGN... It makes no sense to me.

It's an opinion piece. Opinion pieces are meant to counterbalance the publishers own position or push people to think about an issue in a way they may not be comfortable with. I didn't really care for the article but that's fine. Reading content that doesn't just reinforces your own bias is a good thing.

I'd perhaps take what you're saying a bit more seriously if every article on these websites weren't extremely one-sided.
As someone who enjoys sexualized content I don't think that I've ever read an article that had a positive take on it or defended it but I've read so many countless of articles ranting about it even indirectly if not directly.

And I think that's how a lot of others feel about most of what you read on these websites, it wouldn't be so frustrating and annoying if it wasn't so one-sided and if they didn't all have to fit into a status quo.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I don't care for polygon either but in this sense I agree. I'd like more games, not all, but more, like this. The strong hero that is fighting for the clearly right thing and the pure evil bad guy. Is it simple? Sure, but nothing wrong with that.

 

[reptilex]

These people like Polygon writers, are mentally dangerous...

Evil starts precisely with depicting things in B&W when everybody think they're the good guys including nazis, communist or KKK...

 

[Arkam]

Polygon has never been worth much. Even when it started and one of the OG folks use to post on here a lot. The site went from Fanboy Cringe to SJW Cringe. Everytime I have given them a click I have regret it.

 

[carlosrox]

They're shitty, but I bet a bunch of people crying about them follow lame ass Youtubers, podcasts, etc.

Fuck all that shit. They all suck.

 

[Vaelka]

I don't care for polygon either but in this sense I agree. I'd like more games, not all, but more, like this. The strong hero that is fighting for the clearly right thing and the pure evil bad guy. Is it simple? Sure, but nothing wrong with that.

I do think that there's a point to be made about how it's a bit childish sometimes and how it's more of a facade of depth than actual depth.

I do like it sometimes too tho, Star Wars actually used to have a lot of that in the extended universe and I really liked that.
But the movies kinda gotta have everything be black and white because ultimately the movies are for children too, but a lot of the more adult oriented eu-Star Wars actually added a lot more depth to the setting until Disney took over and just threw it all out the window...
The Rebels weren't really just a bunch of good guys, there were a lot of self-interested assholes and complications and the people didn't necessarily see them as the good guys either.
The war didn't really end after Return of the Jedi.
The Empire wasn't this external evil force like most people think, they were just normal civilians who had joined the army and the Rebels were viewed as terrorists.
The Emperor wasn't even the one that really turned people against the Empire either it was Tarkin who caused most of the negative PR.

The more simplistic take on it just undermines Palpatine and him being a schemer really. Lore wise he was supposed to have actually genuinely tricked people into believing that the Jedi were evil and were planning to take over and made himself look like a victim, and he had an interest in not causing too much trouble precisely because he didn't want rebellions to happen lol.
People just joined the army out of patriotism and were genuinely grateful for the security the Empire brought ( remember they had been at war for a LONG time up until that point and in their eyes the Empire ended it. And then the Rebels come along and start it again.).

But now Star Wars is just purely black and white and even if the extended universe wanted to add more depth it wouldn't make any sense anymore.
It really made the whole setting way less interesting imo.

 

[LordCBH]

Sounds to me like the “article” writer is too incompetent to comprehend any story that’s more complex than “orange man bad” but doesn’t want to actually admit that

 

[Bruno_Arrais85]

pro tip: Don't click the link

 

[MrS]

They want video games to be dumbed down. Fuck em.

 

[Bolivar687]

This piece unintentionally demonstrates that the modern liberal American professional is losing their capacity to think and reason in morally nuanced terms, as the narratives they consume are increasingly constructed in binary moral terms.

That or he wrote an entire piece just to slip that cringeworthy nugget in at the end about how one political party today is noble and the other is selfish.

 

[Barakov]

Games need to return to black-and-white morality

Tales of good vs. evil are more relevant than ever

www.polygon.com

These fucking people can't make up their minds.

 

[mcz117chief]

It was ok until the last part, then it goes full cringe.

edit: ok, I read it more thoroughly, it is pretty trash all the way through.

That or he wrote an entire piece just to slip that cringeworthy nugget in at the end about how one political party today is noble and the other is selfish.

Hundred percent it was this reason. The first part of the article doesn't really say much, but the last part is just your classic alt-left nonsense.

 

[hemo memo]

Literally?

 

[TheMay30thMan]

No, thanks. I don’t want another game like KOTOR, where one side is cartoonishly evil for the sake of being evil. And they constantly do evil things, just to show how EVIL they are! I just had Vietnam-style flashbacks of Korriban...

However, I’ve always thought it would be interesting to have a fallout game where one faction is perfectly good, one faction is perfectly evil, and there are several factions in between that have moral ambiguity.

 

[Spukc]

Aaaaaand this is why narrative-driven, production-value driven videogames are doomed.

Games are not for preaching, unless you're a modern journo who got kicked out of the commune.

i honestly believe there is a place for those games
in the bargain bin

 

[nush]

I always forget Polygon exists until I see a topic reminding me they are still shit and somehow still in business.

 

[mcz117chief]

"The most telling example of how gray morality undercuts storytelling is the infamous betrayal by Daisy Fitzroy, a black revolutionary from BioShock Infinite. She’s revealed to be just as corruptible by the allure of power as her racist enemies, even as she was fighting for her people’s emancipation from slavery.

The white protagonist, Booker DeWitt, even spells it out. “The only difference between Comstock [the game’s Big Bad] and Fitzroy is how you spell the name,” he says. It’s a damning conclusion that the rebel faction is just as unethical as the nation’s leaders, while plainly ignoring that its depiction of Jim Crow-era racism contained real-life parallels to the events that birthed the American Civil War."

translation: noooo, black people can't be evil...why is everyone such a Nazi

 

[Werewolf Jones]

Skimmed through it. Buzzwords and fake intellectual talk.

Everything being grey is how the world works unfortunately. Only children see the world in black and white.

 

[the_master]

Edit: Holy cringe at the last section of the article!

that sections seems perfectly on spot to me. Blaming all politicians the same is irresponsible.

 

[mcz117chief]

Everything being grey is how the world works unfortunately. Only children see the world in black and white.

Nah, there is a ton of popular Good vs Evil stories, like the classic Star Wars or the older Disney movies.

 

[Codes 208]

Games need to return to auto-aiming.
-Polygon.

never forget

 

[EverythingsOverrated]

The take on Bioshock Infinite is pretty bird brained

The most telling example of how gray morality undercuts storytelling is the infamous betrayal by Daisy Fitzroy, a black revolutionary from BioShock Infinite. She’s revealed to be just as corruptible by the allure of power as her racist enemies, even as she was fighting for her people’s emancipation from slavery.

The white protagonist, Booker DeWitt, even spells it out. “The only difference between Comstock [the game’s Big Bad] and Fitzroy is how you spell the name,” he says. It’s a damning conclusion that the rebel faction is just as unethical as the nation’s leaders, while plainly ignoring that its depiction of Jim Crow-era racism contained real-life parallels to the events that birthed the American Civil War.

We don’t need more redemption stories about villains or tales about the corruptibility of heroes

What feels infuriating about this perspective is this: If you don’t fight for your rights in the correct way — the polite, civil way that fits snugly within the frameworks of society — you will be tarred with the same brush as those who are actively bolstering the forces behind inequality.

God forbid the game has nuance.

The vox populi are presented in a pretty favorable light until they slip into a different timeline where they've taken over. The fucking ending which shows you as Comstock shows that the different timelines have different outcomes. Obviously Booker doesn't end up being Comstock in every timeline. Super shallow stupid ass logic by this writer

Looking at everything through this lens of ULTRA WOKE™ has got to be exhausting.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I do think that there's a point to be made about how it's a bit childish sometimes and how it's more of a facade of depth than actual depth.

I do like it sometimes too tho, Star Wars actually used to have a lot of that in the extended universe and I really liked that.
But the movies kinda gotta have everything be black and white because ultimately the movies are for children too, but a lot of the more adult oriented eu-Star Wars actually added a lot more depth to the setting until Disney took over and just threw it all out the window...
The Rebels weren't really just a bunch of good guys, there were a lot of self-interested assholes and complications and the people didn't necessarily see them as the good guys either.
The war didn't really end after Return of the Jedi.
The Empire wasn't this external evil force like most people think, they were just normal civilians who had joined the army and the Rebels were viewed as terrorists.
The Emperor wasn't even the one that really turned people against the Empire either it was Tarkin who caused most of the negative PR.

The more simplistic take on it just undermines Palpatine and him being a schemer really. Lore wise he was supposed to have actually genuinely tricked people into believing that the Jedi were evil and were planning to take over and made himself look like a victim, and he had an interest in not causing too much trouble precisely because he didn't want rebellions to happen lol.
People just joined the army out of patriotism and were genuinely grateful for the security the Empire brought ( remember they had been at war for a LONG time up until that point and in their eyes the Empire ended it. And then the Rebels come along and start it again.).

But now Star Wars is just purely black and white and even if the extended universe wanted to add more depth it wouldn't make any sense anymore.
It really made the whole setting way less interesting imo.

100% agree, in some cases it fits and in others it doesn't.

I just think we can have something that clearly has a line. I don't need to feel empathy for the baddies and I don't need to hate my character at times. We can ( and do) have both, as has been stated by lots of other posters

 

[Ceallach]

How many badass protagonists do we honestly have? I count Master Chief and Doom guy.

Almost all of them. Everyone has to be a smartass killing machine talking shit the whole time. Like the Uncharted dickhead, just running his fucking mouth while murdering randos.