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[makaveli60]

Some of you might have seen that I bought a new TV recently: Sony Bravia KD-49XG9005
It's a FALD LED TV so it shouldn't have problems showing HDR they way it's meant.
However, I have problems with gaming in HDR. Youtube HDR videos look amazing, the colors melt my eyes but for some reason, games are very disappointing. I have a launch PS4 and an Xbox One S, both used with the HDMI cables they come with on port 2 and 3 of the TV (these are the more advanced hdmi ports on the tv).
At best there is next to no difference in HDR mode, and in most of the cases the result is that the image becomes darker and the colors look washed out. Honestly, Horizon Zero Dawn and Forza Horizon 4 look better in sdr, they have more vibrant colors. I was also told that the neon in Infamous SS would be awesome but I can only see a minimal difference, while the game itself becomes very dark. I tried calibrating the TV settings too but no luck.
What can be the problem?

 

[_Justinian_]

First, on which system were you watching the YouTube videos on?

 

[Ulysses 31]

Did you turn on HDR in the games? Did you check the PS4 if it's detecting the HDR capability? Can you check if HDR is on from the TV UI?

dull/washed out colors is usually a sign that you're playing HDR content on a non HDR (enabled) screen.

 

[makaveli60]

First, on which system were you watching the YouTube videos on?

On the TV's Youtube app.

Ulysses 31
Yes, actually I'm turning it on and off in the games to compare the picture.
The PS4 also detects that the Tv is capable and it's active. The TV also shows that it's getting HDR signal

 

[Nikana]

On the TV's Youtube app.

Ulysses 31
Yes, actually I'm turning it on and off in the games to compare the picture.
The PS4 also detects that the Tv is capable and it's active. The TV also shows that it's getting HDR signal

Thought to say without looking at the TV. But there are many cases where the algorithms of current TV's do certain things like color and brightness to make the image be more appealing.

HDR is about being accurate so it's possible you are simply seeing it how it's supposed to look but are not happy with the accuracy.

 

[_Justinian_]

For the PS4, what does your video output settings say? Can you post a screenshot?

 

[Ulysses 31]

On the TV's Youtube app.

Ulysses 31
Yes, actually I'm turning it on and off in the games to compare the picture.
The PS4 also detects that the Tv is capable and it's active. The TV also shows that it's getting HDR signal

Dunno how it is with Sony but with Samsung and LG, SDR and HDR have different picture settings for the same HDMI port, you may need to tweak the TV picture settings again once you enable HDR.

 

[makaveli60]

For the PS4, what does your video output settings say? Can you post a screenshot?

Also included 2 screenshots, though I assume it doesn't help much, first one is sdr, second is hdr

 

[JeloSWE]

There a couple of things that could be the reason. You have a lower-mid end model that is EU specific so it's hard finding the information on the TV's peak luminance nits values. The XF90 has a peak nits brightness of around 900 nits and it's on par with the best OLEDs. I have a TV Sony ZF9 that does 1700 nits and is among the best HDR TVs you can own. Many games have pretty shitty HDR implementation that at the game studio been made to output around 500~1000 nits. Spiderman for instance looks like shit on my TV because the sun tops out at 650 nits IIRC. The result is that the sun looks f***ing gray on my screen. While games such as GT Sport has the ability to sett the games nits output to match you TV and it looks awesome. Some shitty games like RDR2 renders the game in SDR and then remaps that range to HDR and it's just a horrible solution for good HDR.

When the game sucks and look dull, what you can do is find a bright source in the game, light, sun etc and then use the TV Picture settings > Contrast slider and increase it above 90 until the sun looks bright and don't start to blowout.

 

[Rikkori]

1. Read through this: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x950g/settings

2. Vibrant SDR means you're used to OVERsaturation. The thing about HDR is that you have the contrast between different elements, eg bright light & dark surroundings, which means that in some situations the scene might seem more muted. There's also a colour-space change between SDR & HDR and for SDR that sometimes mean, again, oversaturation of colours (by the game), and because in SDR the whole screen has more consistent brightness across it, it will help colours "pop" further. How vivid colours are is directly related to brightness.

3. Are you playing HDR during daytime? If you do, make sure to have proper light control because due to how it handles changes in light it will make it harder to see & appreciate. HDR is much more suited to dark rooms or at night.

For Forza H4 I would say the HDR is not particularly great, at least on LCDs, it's very subdued, so you shouldn't feel like HDR makes a big difference. In HZD on the other hand, especially for night scenes, you should absolutely see a difference, clear as day. I don't know if you have The Division 2 but that one, at night in-game, with neutral lighting setting on (in-game setting), it's a jaw dropper. And you'll see a very clear difference vs SDR.

I would also like to know what mode you're using for both and what settings (eg brightness, contrast, colour, all the additional stuff like contrast enhancer etc), because in some cases you can juice the SDR up enough to come close to HDR but have extra pop (but less differentiation), eg if you use XDR at low in SDR.

 

[Kuranghi]

There a couple of things that could be the reason. You have a lower-mid end model that is EU specific so it's hard finding the information on the TV's peak luminance nits values. The XF90 has a peak nits brightness of around 900 nits and it's on par with the best OLEDs. I have a TV Sony ZF9 that does 1700 nits and is among the best HDR TVs you can own. Many games have pretty shitty HDR implementation that at the game studio been made to output around 500~1000 nits. Spiderman for instance looks like shit on my TV because the sun tops out at 650 nits IIRC. The result is that the sun looks f***ing gray on my screen. While games such as GT Sport has the ability to sett the games nits output to match you TV and it looks awesome. Some shitty games like RDR2 renders the game in SDR and then remaps that range to HDR and it's just a horrible solution for good HDR.

When the game sucks and look dull, what you can do is find a bright source in the game, light, sun etc and then use the TV Picture settings > Contrast slider and increase it above 90 until the sun looks bright and don't start to blowout.

OP has the 2019 version of XF90, its exactly the same specs, ie peak brightness, etc. It just has metal legs instead of plastic. It was released because they kept the 2018 XF90 on for 2019 but only in 55"-75" (not even 75" in some regions), they didn't have a 2019 49" FALD in the range - the XG95 started in 55" - so they filled it with a new model, XG90. Thats why its only available in 49".

 

[makaveli60]

There a couple of things that could be the reason. You have a lower-mid end model that is EU specific so it's hard finding the information on the TV's peak luminance nits values. The XF90 has a peak nits brightness of around 900 nits and it's on par with the best OLEDs. I have a TV Sony ZF9 that does 1700 nits and is among the best HDR TVs you can own. Many games have pretty shitty HDR implementation that at the game studio been made to output around 500~1000 nits. Spiderman for instance looks like shit on my TV because the sun tops out at 650 nits IIRC. The result is that the sun looks f***ing gray on my screen. While games such as GT Sport has the ability to sett the games nits output to match you TV and it looks awesome. Some shitty games like RDR2 renders the game in SDR and then remaps that range to HDR and it's just a horrible solution for good HDR.

When the game sucks and look dull, what you can do is find a bright source in the game, light, sun etc and then use the TV Picture settings > Contrast slider and increase it above 90 until the sun looks bright and don't start to blowout.

As far as I know this TV is almost the same as the XF90. And as I said I think the HDR capabilites are okay because in Youtube HDR videos I can easily see the difference, the colors really melt my eyes. The problem is only with the games.
Maybe I'm getting this wrong... What should I see exactly? So the sun should be shiny but what about the other parts of the screen?

 

[JeloSWE]

One of the reasons HDR can look dull on a cheaper TV is that in SDR say white paper next to a candle can booth look 100% white if they are a bit blown out. When you show this image on your TV in SDR the whitest part is being shown at the TV's maximum brightness. In reality, the candle is even brighter than the paper but because it's blown out in SDR is capped at 100% white and no nits/luminance information above that point is retained and you can't tell which is brighter. But when you take the same scene in HDR, the earlier discarded information is stored and we can show the relative brightness difference between the paper and the candle. Problem is that in order for us to show the difference we we have to squeeze the now much larger luminance range that goes beyond paper white and assume that the candle is maximum white and we can now see that the paper is actually say only 50% as bright, but in order to do so the TV will now render it grayish instead. That is why going from SDR to HDR on a weaker TV can lose contrast. Still it's also important how the game outputs HDR, there are many movies and games that does a really bad job of this. Unfortunately the market have a lot of low nits output OLEDs and may of those users claim they thing eg Spiderman to look good whit in fact it has shit HDR, my guess is that many of them haven't seen how freaking bright a good LCD can get.

 

[Rikkori]

As far as I know this TV is almost the same as the XF90. And as I said I think the HDR capabilites are okay because in Youtube HDR videos I can easily see the difference, the colors really melt my eyes. The problem is only with the games.
Maybe I'm getting this wrong... What should I see exactly? So the sun should be shiny but what about the other parts of the screen?

First thing to understand: HDR is NOT about the colours, it's about the contrast. It's about light & darkness. Now, sometimes SDR ends up in sRGB and HDR ends up in DCI-P3 (or even Rec2020 sometimes), so there are colour changes but they're not intrinsic to HDR. What to look out for in order to see HDR is seeing bright lights in a limited area while the rest of the screen maintains darkness (so it doesn't light up to be grey, like it would have to in SDR). Here's the perfect picture to encapsulate this (and it's also available in the free steam demo for the game, dunno about consoles)

Watch from 3:00 to 4:00 and pay attention to the light

 

[Nikana]

Also included 2 screenshots, though I assume it doesn't help much, first one is sdr, second is hdr

I have and HDR screen on my phone but it appears these shots weren't taken in HDR.

But it looks like to me it's working properly as the black levels and such are adjusted. HDR isn't just about cranking colors. It's about highlights and wider forms of colors.

I would say adjust the color scale on the HDR settings on the input you have and see if it improves to you liking.

Also, this is unlikely it, but change the HDMI black levels or color range (the setting is called something different from TV to TV) to see if it adjusts and looks more natural.

 

[_Justinian_]

Maybe I am confused, but how come you are running your games in 1080p and not in 4k? (According to what I see in your settings)

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

On the TV's Youtube app.

Ulysses 31
Yes, actually I'm turning it on and off in the games to compare the picture.
The PS4 also detects that the Tv is capable and it's active. The TV also shows that it's getting HDR signal

Are you manually selecting things or have it on auto? (ps4 settings)

Isn't that tv a 4k? Why are you running it on 1080p?

 

[Kuranghi]

First thing to understand: HDR is NOT about the colours, it's about the contrast. It's about light & darkness. Now, sometimes SDR ends up in sRGB and HDR ends up in DCI-P3 (or even Rec2020 sometimes), so there are colour changes but they're not intrinsic to HDR. What to look out for in order to see HDR is seeing bright lights in a limited area while the rest of the screen maintains darkness (so it doesn't light up to be grey, like it would have to in SDR). Here's the perfect picture to encapsulate this (and it's also available in the free steam demo for the game, dunno about consoles)

Watch from 3:00 to 4:00 and pay attention to the light

Agree about the contrast being the main deal and its confusing that marketing says the colour will "pop more", when its really more variety/more accurate colours, which could mean its more saturated but more often its the same.

I do see more colour in very high brightness lights in some games, like Infamous: SS/FL buts its down to the colour space change as you say, rather than them actually changing the colour palette.

 

[PurpleDragon92]

In HDR game mode try switching on dynamic contrast , it doesn’t work the same as it does in other modes where it constantly changes the brightness , on my LG tv it simply makes the image brighter and looks a lot better for it.

 

[J3nga]

Well you got a 49 inch version which isn't a real 10 bit panel, but 8+frc, that's what you'll see on entry level 4k hdr tvs. i can't find specs for peak brightness and dimming zones, but something tells me it isn't too great. So that and it being only 8 bit panel explains why there's not that much of a difference. I believe I've told you to look towards 55" models as that's where the good stuff starts. 55 inch version of this model has true 10 bit panel and peak brightness of 1200 nits and 60 or 48 dimming zones if I'm correct.

Edit:
I can see the difference between the 2 pictures, in the 2nd picture sun rays are much brighter as turning on HDR increases peak brightness, so HDR definitely works. There's really nothing to fix other than playing around with HDR settings.

 

[LostDonkey]

Maybe I am confused, but how come you are running your games in 1080p and not in 4k? (According to what I see in your settings)

Base PS4. Xbox One S

 

[LostDonkey]

In HDR game mode try switching on dynamic contrast , it doesn’t work the same as it does in other modes where it constantly changes the brightness , on my LG tv it simply makes the image brighter and looks a lot better for it.

This is bad advice.

If you want banding in darker scenes then follow it.

 

[Ulysses 31]

This is bad advice.

If you want banding in darker scenes then follow it.

Not bad advice on Samsung TVs, you need dynamic contrast for HDR or the image is too dim.

 

[LostDonkey]

Not bad advice on Samsung TVs, you need dynamic contrast for HDR or the image is too dim.

The image should be darker than normal. You will get used to it.

I have a 55 LG HDR and in my experience and testing dynamic contrast introduces banding in darker scenes and blows out the higher highs.

 

[Nikana]

The image should be darker than normal. You will get used to it.

I have a 55 LG HDR and in my experience and testing dynamic contrast introduces banding in darker scenes and blows out the higher highs.

Lags HDR is vastly different in game mode from model to model.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Some of you might have seen that I bought a new TV recently: Sony Bravia KD-49XG9005
It's a FALD LED TV so it shouldn't have problems showing HDR they way it's meant.
However, I have problems with gaming in HDR. Youtube HDR videos look amazing, the colors melt my eyes but for some reason, games are very disappointing. I have a launch PS4 and an Xbox One S, both used with the HDMI cables they come with on port 2 and 3 of the TV (these are the more advanced hdmi ports on the tv).
At best there is next to no difference in HDR mode, and in most of the cases the result is that the image becomes darker and the colors look washed out. Honestly, Horizon Zero Dawn and Forza Horizon 4 look better in sdr, they have more vibrant colors. I was also told that the neon in Infamous SS would be awesome but I can only see a minimal difference, while the game itself becomes very dark. I tried calibrating the TV settings too but no luck.
What can be the problem?

Sony tvs require you to enable hdr in the input settings. You have to select "enhanced". Not sure if you did that.

 

[Ulysses 31]

The image should be darker than normal. You will get used to it.

I have a 55 LG HDR and in my experience and testing dynamic contrast introduces banding in darker scenes and blows out the higher highs.

Yeah but even the bright parts are also dimmed on Samsung, there's no way around it.

Keep in mind that different manufacturers use different color science.

 

[Gamerguy84]

New HDMI cables. High bandwidth.

 

[Toytown Assassin]

Did you enable enhanced mode or whatever your tv calls it for the HDMI port you are using?

 

[Rikkori]

Here's what I mean when I say what HDR allows is shining the light in a more focused manner:

See how diffuse it would be normally? Imagine that's SDR. Then the bottom one is HDR, where only what you want to light up lights up, rather than the whole screen.

Disclaimer: the image is of something else (before that guy chimes in), but I use it for its illustrative purpose.

 

[JeloSWE]

Here, I made a diagram to hopefully illustrated why HDR can look dimmer on an weaker HDR screen.

 

[makaveli60]

First thing to understand: HDR is NOT about the colours, it's about the contrast. It's about light & darkness. Now, sometimes SDR ends up in sRGB and HDR ends up in DCI-P3 (or even Rec2020 sometimes), so there are colour changes but they're not intrinsic to HDR. What to look out for in order to see HDR is seeing bright lights in a limited area while the rest of the screen maintains darkness (so it doesn't light up to be grey, like it would have to in SDR). Here's the perfect picture to encapsulate this (and it's also available in the free steam demo for the game, dunno about consoles)

Watch from 3:00 to 4:00 and pay attention to the light

Yeah, I watched this on my TV's youtube app and on my laptop and I see the difference, so I think the TV shows it well. The problem is when I'm playing games. Though I didn't try Rotr yet.

 

[makaveli60]

Well you got a 49 inch version which isn't a real 10 bit panel, but 8+frc, that's what you'll see on entry level 4k hdr tvs. i can't find specs for peak brightness and dimming zones, but something tells me it isn't too great. So that and it being only 8 bit panel explains why there's not that much of a difference. I believe I've told you to look towards 55" models as that's where the good stuff starts. 55 inch version of this model has true 10 bit panel and peak brightness of 1200 nits and 60 or 48 dimming zones if I'm correct.

Edit:
I can see the difference between the 2 pictures, in the 2nd picture sun rays are much brighter as turning on HDR increases peak brightness, so HDR definitely works. There's really nothing to fix other than playing around with HDR settings.

I know but I really couldn't even fit a 55" TV so it was out of the question, this 49" barely fits too. And I was told that these Sony TVs have the same panel and there is no downgrade in the smaller ones, so I thought it would be ok.

 

[Nikana]

I know but I really couldn't even fit a 55" TV so it was out of the question, this 49" barely fits too. And I was told that these Sony TVs have the same panel and there is no downgrade in the smaller ones, so I thought it would be ok.

I mean it's OK. I don't think you should feel bad about your purchase. Just know that you are getting a "lower" quality experience. But it's still an upgrade over a non HDR display.

 

[makaveli60]

New HDMI cables. High bandwidth.

Are you sure? I read conflicting answers about this, some say you need some say it's bullshit.

Toytown Assassin Phunkydiabetic I enbabled that setting, yes.
J3nga It's peak nits should be around 950, if it's indeed the same as XF90

 

[J3nga]

I know but I really couldn't even fit a 55" TV so it was out of the question, this 49" barely fits too. And I was told that these Sony TVs have the same panel and there is no downgrade in the smaller ones, so I thought it would be ok.

Who told you that? Go to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en and check comparisons 49" version is noticeably downgraded IMO. 10bit to 8bit alone is a major downgrade.

 

[makaveli60]

I also ran dimming zone test videos and that showed that the TV is capable of showing real HDR. I don't think that's the issue, it's just that the games somehow look worse. Maybe these base consoles are the problem?

 

[Stray Parts]

Some of you might have seen that I bought a new TV recently: Sony Bravia KD-49XG9005
It's a FALD LED TV so it shouldn't have problems showing HDR they way it's meant.
However, I have problems with gaming in HDR. Youtube HDR videos look amazing, the colors melt my eyes but for some reason, games are very disappointing. I have a launch PS4 and an Xbox One S, both used with the HDMI cables they come with on port 2 and 3 of the TV (these are the more advanced hdmi ports on the tv).
At best there is next to no difference in HDR mode, and in most of the cases the result is that the image becomes darker and the colors look washed out. Honestly, Horizon Zero Dawn and Forza Horizon 4 look better in sdr, they have more vibrant colors. I was also told that the neon in Infamous SS would be awesome but I can only see a minimal difference, while the game itself becomes very dark. I tried calibrating the TV settings too but no luck.
What can be the problem?

It wouldn't be surprising if the TV disables its FALD in game mode and also disables other video post processing to reduce input lag, various LED TV's do this.

The base PS4 uses a form of 8-bit RGB 0-255 HDR instead of the 10-bit YCC HDR used by the PS4 Pro (at least that was the case back when base PS4 got HDR patched in, not sure if its still the case). The TV may have issues processing this form of HDR, Sony's TV division has nothing to do with the Playstation group they are almost separate companies.

In the HDR game mode preset check the black level and that it is set to auto, if there is no auto try setting it to High instead and see if that makes any difference.

 

[zeomax]

Also included 2 screenshots, though I assume it doesn't help much, first one is sdr, second is hdr

According to this picture your PS4 is not outputting a HDR signal. The Color Format should say YUV422(HDR) and not RGB.

Are you sure? I read conflicting answers about this, some say you need some say it's bullshit.

You need a HDMI 2.0 cable for HDR. 1.4 or lower is not working.

 

[Rikkori]

Who told you that? Go to https://www.displayspecifications.com/en and check comparisons 49" version is noticeably downgraded IMO. 10bit to 8bit alone is a major downgrade.

It makes 0 difference to what he's saying. That would make banding more obvious but has nothing to do with what we're discussing.

 

[JeloSWE]

Are you sure? I read conflicting answers about this, some say you need some say it's bullshit.

Toytown Assassin Phunkydiabetic I enbabled that setting, yes.

Audiophile cables are snake oil as long as you have some basic shielded ones. But HDMI require properly certified cables (not expensive) for the band width needed to transmit resolution and frame rates over X meter. If the screen keeps blacking out you need a better cable. You at least need HDMI 2.0 High Speed 18Gbps certified cables to be on the safe side and length also play a part.

 

[Gamerguy84]

Are you sure? I read conflicting answers about this, some say you need some say it's bullshit.

Toytown Assassin Phunkydiabetic I enbabled that setting, yes.
J3nga It's peak nits should be around 950, if it's indeed the same as XF90

I think so anyway. It says premium HDMI cable. Premium is also known as high speed, high bandwidth.

 

[JeloSWE]

According to this picture your PS4 is not outputting a HDR signal. The Color Format should say YUV422(HDR) and not RGB.


You need a HDMI 2.0 cable for HDR. 1.4 or lower is not working.

That screen is not telling if HDR is working or not if the game IS NOT running at the time. If it were it should say either RGB(HDR) or as you said YUV422(HDR).

 

[zeomax]

That screen is not telling if HDR is working or not if the game IS NOT running at the time.

Yes i know. But he is running a game.

 

[Toytown Assassin]

I've got a ps4 and a pro hooked up to my TV so I had a look at BF5 in both as that's the only HDR game installed on both ATM. Looks duller on the PS4 base model for whatever reason. I'm pretty sure I've got the same settings on both HDMI ports so it's not that. The colours are all there just lacks the brightness.

 

[Nikana]

I also ran dimming zone test videos and that showed that the TV is capable of showing real HDR. I don't think that's the issue, it's just that the games somehow look worse. Maybe these base consoles are the problem?

No. I think what you expect from HDR is the issue. I really do.

Base consoles won't make a difference in the HDR.

 

[makaveli60]

According to this picture your PS4 is not outputting a HDR signal. The Color Format should say YUV422(HDR) and not RGB.


You need a HDMI 2.0 cable for HDR. 1.4 or lower is not working.

Now we might be onto something then. I will compare now Ratchet and Clank with a HDR Youtube video running in the TV's app.

 

[Gamerguy84]

I've got a ps4 and a pro hooked up to my TV so I had a look at BF5 in both as that's the only HDR game installed on both ATM. Looks duller on the PS4 base model for whatever reason. I'm pretty sure I've got the same settings on both HDMI ports so it's not that. The colours are all there just lacks the brightness.

How many knits is your set?

 

[Nikana]

Now we might be onto something then. I will compare now Ratchet and Clank with a HDR Youtube video running in the TV's app.

It won't say it's outputting an HDR image until the game is launched. Did you mess with the HDR settings in the PlayStation Settings?

 

[JeloSWE]

No. I think what you expect from HDR is the issue. I really do.

Base consoles won't make a difference in the HDR.

Shouldn't make a difference.