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[Grinchy]

Jesus Christ, it takes this guy 4 and a half minutes just to start the fucking thing. Even for a guy on youtube, that's a ridiculously long preamble.

And then he pauses it to discuss whether or not he should be long-winded about the intro of the GDC video he's supposed to be reacting to. I mean, come on my guy. Maybe have someone edit these videos for you. The first 7 minutes so far have been basically worthless.

The rest of it has been really interesting.

 

[FranXico]

I dont think he is my friend.

Again, I'm sorry, I thought Louis Kirby was your friend or at least an acquaintance. My bad.

 

[Neo Blaster]

He's not even praising him. He just said Cerny seems to be really good at presenting. Something not common among engineers, indeed.
He's going into it with an open mind, but called the IO system objectives quite ambitious.

Well, he said what Cerny was talking about was interesting enough to make him watch the whole video.

 

[eot]

Some of the stuff hes saying in the beginning made no sense theirs a reason why something like star citizen on pc exist and why it doesn't on consoles.
- Console hardware is obsolete once it hits market, a RTX 2070 can already run the next AC game at a better frame rate then the ps5 and XSX.
- Games are big in size because game dev dont compress there games IE MW,F76,GT sport
- SSDs and high speed RPM HDD are nothing new You can already load into games on pc in sub 10 seconds if devs still want you to watch there splash screens and unskipable cutscenes load times are mute at that point.
- Games arent compressed if games are reaching 100+GB in size with 40GB patches
- BF ships with low maps and characters so EA could sell you a season pass nothing more.

This video is interesting but you can tell he worked for EA.

With how much stupidity you fit into a single post you must've used some compression yourself.

 

[FranXico]

With how much stupidity you fit into a single post you must've used some compression yourself.

BSpack.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Feinding for part 2.

 

[GlassAwful]

37 minutes?! I'm not sure I can properly absorb all this without a video breaking it down for me.

Can anyone point me to a reaction to the reaction video?

 

[jimbojim]

37 minutes?! I'm not sure I can properly absorb all this without a video breaking it down for me.

Can anyone point me to a reaction to the reaction video?

He is amazed by Cerny. Anyway, so far he agrees with everything what Cerny said about game design and how is bottlenecked by its slow speed. Anyway, Cherno explained some things in understandable way, understandable to laymen. Part 2 is coming. So far he saw 1/4 of "Road to PS5".

 

[PrimeTime]

i thought he did a great review of the presentation (or the first quarter of it he saw).

When I saw Cerny’s presentation and then saw how people on this board reacted, I couldn’t believe my eyes. I half-expected most to ask for blast processing or some dumb marketing gimmick from consoles past.

This guy confirmed for me that I’m not crazy...that many of the things I understood about this console were accurate and that Sony is talking a very well-thought out approach in all of this. Can’t wait for part 2.

 

[Aion002]

Cool video and the guy seems really interesting to follow. I will subscribe to his channel.

It's nice to see a realistic light-hearted commentary.... Rather than edgy lords and fan boys trying to be funny and cynical about everything.

 

[saintjules]

He posted an update on his channel a little while ago

 

[DeepEnigma]

He posted an update on his channel a little while ago

Perfect time for the weekend. Thanks for the update!

 

[Vroadstar]

Looking forward to his part 2 PS5 reaction video, the 1st one was really good.

 

[Rentahamster]

Part 2 is out.

 

[SaucyJack]

That was really good, cant wait for part 3.

 

[Beelzebubs]

Been waiting for part 2!

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

Really helps you appreciate the thought process behind such machines. Would love to hear something similar from Microsofts side actually.

 

[Rentahamster]

Really helps you appreciate the thought process behind such machines. Would love to hear something similar from Microsofts side actually.

Yup, I like it when we get more tech oriented and gameplay oriented presentations. I want to hear MS' devs go over the Xbox's bells and whistles too.

 

[Grinchy]

He seems to be pretty impressed by the PS5's architecture. It really ramps up the hype for June 4th.

 

[SaucyJack]

Really helps you appreciate the thought process behind such machines. Would love to hear something similar from Microsofts side actually.

Agreed. We haven't had an equivalent of the Road to PS5 from MS, we just got a Leadbetter article, right?

If I missed something I’d love to see it.

 

[Entroyp]

Yup, I like it when we get more tech oriented and gameplay oriented presentations. I want to hear MS' devs go over the Xbox's bells and whistles too.

I think I’ve heard them talk more about the PS5 than the XsX.

Anyways, great video and can’t wait for the next one.

 

[ToadMan]

Agreed. We haven't had an equivalent of the Road to PS5 from MS, we just got a Leadbetter article, right?

If I missed something I’d love to see it.

So far that's more or less it from MS. But Xsex is more or less xb1 x ++ so there's not so much unpack. The content of the XVA is the only interesting thing and quite a bit of that has already been disected.

 

[FranXico]

I think I’ve heard them talk more about the PS5 than the XsX.

Anyways, great video and can’t wait for the next one.

I suspect he would be equally interested on the XsX architecture. He's also better equipped to explain things to the technically illiterate than Cerny.

 

[Entroyp]

I suspect he would be equally interested on the XsX architecture. He's also better equipped to explain things to the technically illiterate than Cerny.

I wasn’t talking about the guy in the video, I was talking about MS employees but not in a serious way.

 

[Azurro]

Nice, really interesting feedback from him. Loved how triggered he got at the "measuring by teraflops" thing.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Question. At ~12:00 Cherno comments that the I/O co-processor that Cerny says is for memory mapping is basically virtual RAM. Is this basically same thing as the 100GB instantly available in XVA?

 

[Dodkrake]

I would like to call the Xbox fanatics, that refuse to listen to more technical savy people, to what he explains at around 11:50 in the second part.

PS5 can use the whole SSD as "RAM", like the so called groundbreaking tech in the XBSX

 

[Azurro]

Question. At ~12:00 Cherno comments that the I/O co-processor that Cerny says is for memory mapping is basically virtual RAM. Is this basically same thing as the 100GB instantly available in XVA?

I'm a developer but not a games developer, but no, this seems to be a completely different thing and they seem to be doing it this generation as well. From what I can speculate, basically they are mapping certain assets in the HDD so that they can be used and called into memory when needed, that is what they mean by using the storage as VRAM. I mean, this probably has been happening for a while, as game engines have been streaming data from the HDD for a very long time now.

Of course this is very slow process since PS4 and XBONE are still using old storage technology.

 

[SaucyJack]

I missed this first time round, but interesting that the custom I/O complex contains the equivalent of more Zen 2 cores than the CPU has.

 

[Dodkrake]

And then again at 26:00

 

[FranXico]

I would like to call the Xbox fanatics, that refuse to listen to more technical savy people, to what he explains at around 11:50 in the second part.

PS5 can use the whole SSD as "RAM", like the so called groundbreaking tech in the XBSX

I'm a developer but not a games developer, but no, this seems to be a completely different thing and they seem to be doing it this generation as well. From what I can speculate, basically they are mapping certain assets in the HDD so that they can be used and called into memory when needed, that is what they mean by using the storage as VRAM. I mean, this probably has been happening for a while, as game engines have been streaming data from the HDD for a very long time now.

Of course this is very slow process since PS4 and XBONE are still using old storage technology.

I'm actually inclined to believe that both the XsX and PS5 are doing something similar to, or based on mmap (as someone else already pointed out in the speculation thread), with the caveat that they have an SSD with a custom controller at their disposal.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

I'm a developer but not a games developer, but no, this seems to be a completely different thing and they seem to be doing it this generation as well. From what I can speculate, basically they are mapping certain assets in the HDD so that they can be used and called into memory when needed, that is what they mean by using the storage as VRAM. I mean, this probably has been happening for a while, as game engines have been streaming data from the HDD for a very long time now.

Of course this is very slow process since PS4 and XBONE are still using old storage technology.

Reading my post back I worded it horribly! Sorry about that. As above I'm thinking these do a similar thing in a slightly different way.

 

[Dodkrake]

And yet again at 31 min, regarding the number of CU's...

It's like what everybody has been saying, without denying that the XBSX has the raw power advantage

 

[Bryank75]

So... memory mapping allows instantaneous access to the entire 825GB of memory, while XBox only has access to 100GB from what they have been saying.

Then the 12 channel controller allows for more random and unexpected things to happen, meaning you can have much more of that stuff in RDR2 that people love happening all at once.

 

[Rick Dangerous]

Where is part 3 ? Love those videos...

 

[FranXico]

Where is part 3 ? Love those videos...

He promised part 3 in a couple of days. Do check out his other stuff about game engine programming and C++. He made a really nice channel.

 

[martino]

imo it's too much vulgarization in the 2 case.

 

[Thirty7ven]

TFLOPS the Megapixels of Consoles is just perfect.

So... memory mapping allows instantaneous access to the entire 825GB of memory, while XBox only has access to 100GB from what they have been saying.

Then the 12 channel controller allows for more random and unexpected things to happen, meaning you can have much more of that stuff in RDR2 that people love happening all at once.

Chickens coming home to roost.

The industry is talking about the hardware in the PS5 for a reason.

 

[Dee_Dee]

I still don’t get the CU count part that Cerny was talking about. If fast and narrow is the better option then why does AMD keep making GPUs that have more and more CUs?
Also isn’t fast/narrow and slow/wide relative to what the hardware is being compared to? PS5 is fast and narrow compared to Xbox Series X but wouldn’t the Series X be considered fast and narrow compared to an 80 CU GPU?
This stuff is so confusing.

 

[FranXico]

I still don’t get the CU count part that Cerny was talking about. If fast and narrow is the better option then why does AMD keep making GPUs that have more and more CUs?
Also isn’t fast/narrow and slow/wide relative to what the hardware is being compared to? PS5 is fast and narrow compared to Xbox Series X but wouldn’t the Series X be considered fast and narrow compared to an 80 CU GPU?
This stuff is so confusing.

He was comparing two hypothetical setups with the same architecture and resulting TF.
In his view, given a strict choice between narrow/fast or wide/slow, he prefers narrow/fast. Note, for the same teraflops.

Having said that, it is a bit of damage control, since the XsX GPU is better, period. One should aim at both wide and fast as much as possible.

 

[Md Ray]

I still don’t get the CU count part that Cerny was talking about. If fast and narrow is the better option then why does AMD keep making GPUs that have more and more CUs?
Also isn’t fast/narrow and slow/wide relative to what the hardware is being compared to? PS5 is fast and narrow compared to Xbox Series X but wouldn’t the Series X be considered fast and narrow compared to an 80 CU GPU?
This stuff is so confusing.

Series X GPU clock speed isn't that high, not to the same extent as PS5's. SX's GPU frequency is within the expected range given its CU count and the architectural improvements going from RDNA 1.0 to 2.0. However, PS5's GPU clock speed is unrealistically high, especially for a console. The path Sony has taken for PS5 GPU is pretty unusual. Historically consoles would always settle with lower clock speeds, to deal with heat, due to their small form factor size. As an e.g. Radeon HD 7870 GPU on PC is a 20 CU chip clocked at 1000 MHz, the PS4 GPU is a customized 7870 with 2 CUs disabled for a total of 18 active CUs, clocked at max 800 MHz. This alone should indicate how conservative they were when designing PS4.

To put into perspective, today if you take RDNA 1.0 based 36 CU GPU (RX 5700) on PC with its own dedicated beefy cooling solution and power requirements, it peaks around 1750 MHz more or less, the actual game clock is even lower, somewhere in the 1625 MHz range.

Having said that, before the PS5 specs were officially out, expecting clock speeds close to 2000 MHz out of a 36 CU RDNA 2.0 chip that's going to be inside a small console box seemed totally unrealistic, let alone hit that frequency. March 18th happened, full specs were revealed by Mr. Cerny and now we know it's actually over 2000+ MHz, in fact, it's capped at 2230 MHz. Meaning they could hit even higher than that but they had to cap at that frequency so that on-chip logic could operate properly. This is extremely high, especially for a console and hopefully, this gave a little perspective into just how high PS5 GPU's frequency is running at, in boost.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

So... memory mapping allows instantaneous access to the entire 825GB of memory, while XBox only has access to 100GB from what they have been saying.

Then the 12 channel controller allows for more random and unexpected things to happen, meaning you can have much more of that stuff in RDR2 that people love happening all at once.

Indeed, but which games needs more than 100GB in one scene? I even would be surprised if games need more than 10GB in a scene, so it doesn't necessarily help much.

 

[Steve.1981]

Just watched the first video. Wasn't aware of this guy's channel. I did watch the "Road to PS5" presentation, but I admit that I didn't actually understand most of it.

This video was really good for a fan like me, with zero technical knowledge, because he broke down a lot of stuff into simple language in an easy to understand, straightforward manner. I enjoyed listening to the guy & now I feel a bit more excited about certain things Mark Cerny had said.

Will definitely be watching the rest of the series now. Just in time for the PS5 games presentation this week as well. Should be a good week

 

[Rikkori]

I still don’t get the CU count part that Cerny was talking about. If fast and narrow is the better option then why does AMD keep making GPUs that have more and more CUs?
Also isn’t fast/narrow and slow/wide relative to what the hardware is being compared to? PS5 is fast and narrow compared to Xbox Series X but wouldn’t the Series X be considered fast and narrow compared to an 80 CU GPU?
This stuff is so confusing.

The short answer is: it depends. Meaning, yes, for some tasks fast & narrow will be better because it's easier to utilise generally speaking but you quickly run into the problem of not being able to make it any faster, so your only other option is to now widen it. For other tasks, wider works better. The easiest way to make more use of more CUs is to simply increase the resolution. How well more CUs can be utilised is something AMD & NV keep working on as well, that's why Navi has better utilisation than eg Vega, because of architectural revamps, at least for games - for compute they had no such issues, hence why Vega's been such a beast there. Another thing is, R&D is more and more expensive and takes longer, so both vendors focus on unifying designs, so that they don't make different architectures for every single use case and instead making one architecture and then scaling the GPUs appropriately based on who they're selling to. We can see that happen with Ampere now as well.

So, for XSX vs PS5, the CU vs Speed debate is irrelevant, as 52 CUs isn't something too difficult to exploit and since it's a target spec devs would work on properly driving the hardware anyway. PS fanboys hoping the speed will be able to make-up the difference somehow of having 2 fewer Tflops are in for a rude awakening, but equally MS fanboys hoping 2 TF difference is gonna manifest as anything immediately obvious are also going to be very disappointed. In truth the consoles are gonna be very close to each other and outside of ppl doing nothing but scrutinising the games for any differences, it's not gonna be noticeable to 99.9% of players.

 

[Steve.1981]

Yeah I like this guy. Watched part 2, & his UE 5 video. I like getting a more straightforward reaction to these things from someone who knows what he's talking about. Will definitely keep an eye out for his videos in the future.

 

[EverydayBeast]

SONY is putting the PS5 in a good position.

 

[Beelzebubs]

Part 3 is out.

 

[Dodkrake]

I really like how analytical he is (works only on the information presented).

 

[Rentahamster]

Sony should release a demo video that showcases the 3D audio.

 

[RaySoft]

I really like how analytical he is (works only on the information presented).

On what other information would he base it on then?