Support NeoGAF

[Panajev2001a]

Nintendo being an underdog or Microsoft being a behemoth has nothing to do with why I'm in this thread. I came here to give a thumbs up to Nintendo. Same as I did for learning of Microsofts efforts in making a nice and respectable next-generation system in the XSX. I'm sure when Sony opens up about the PS5 I'll give more insight on what I like about it. I have a PS4, Xbox X, and Switch. I've sorta stopped playing the first two systems when I learned that they'll be backwards with the new systems later this year. I want to play games HZD, GoT, and GOW in the best possible way. Anywho...

The issue is that when I do come into certain threads where the facts are undeniable and informative, you get people that make said facts trivial to the point it becomes a stain on a otherwise positive thread. I'm not dedicated to a company, I'm only here for the games.

Now this is becoming weird... I am not asking you why you are in this thread or questioning it (far from it ), but something else.

I am asking you your opinion on something and you reply with a bit of a wall of text defending yourself and why you are in this thread giving thumbs up to Nintendo and how you like all consoles, etc... Sorry, maybe I am wrong, but it makes it feel as if you are going off a script here.

 

[Peenolia010]

Now this is becoming weird... I am not asking you why you are in this thread or questioning it (far from it ), but something else.

I am asking you your opinion on something and you reply with a bit of a wall of text defending yourself and why you are in this thread giving thumbs up to Nintendo and how you like all consoles, etc... Sorry, maybe I am wrong, but it makes it feel as if you are going off a script here.

Forgive me, my attention went to shits as I was in and out of sleep.. Will post when I'm fully awake.

 

[SirTerry-T]

All of it, all the BS hate on anything Nintendo are come from "graphics", just look at NeoGF as a whole, half the discussion here is about graphics. Entire reason people are pissed at Switch's success is because the entire idea of under power system selling well makes them angry.

That's the ironic thing really because disregarding the power of the silicon inside these consoles, Nintendo's art direction is best in class. That's probably the problem, if a game contains more than two primary colours it's clearly aimed at junior school kids.

I'd love to see a Nintendo/From software crossover. Mario in Dark Souls World or something, just for the fucking meltdowns from the "mature games" crowd.

 

[Chankoras]

Well done Nintendo

Sony, not bad for a router.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

That's the ironic thing really because disregarding the power of the silicon inside these consoles, Nintendo's art direction is best in class. That's probably the problem, if a game contains more than two primary colours it's clearly aimed at junior school kids.

I'd love to see a Nintendo/From software crossover. Mario in Dark Souls World or something, just for the fucking meltdowns from the "mature games" crowd.

Bayo 3 is basically being paid for to pad out the mature library. Nintendo had always done their own thing, and the industry need them for that. Too much trend chasing for he majority of the gaming studios since forever.

In fact Donkey Kong Arcade Cabinet was originally made because everyone else was making games about shooting things. It was different.

 

[Airbus Jr]

God..damnit...Nintendo is so freakin...awesome !!

 

[Roman Empire]

Of course the PROFIT is gonna be higher, when you make much cheaper hardware and the games cost alot less to make, yet they still sell as much/more

It's ludicrous how Nintendo products maintain their price, even the games don't devalue at the same rate as most AAA games.

 

[Peenolia010]

Now this is becoming weird... I am not asking you why you are in this thread or questioning it (far from it ), but something else.

I am asking you your opinion on something and you reply with a bit of a wall of text defending yourself and why you are in this thread giving thumbs up to Nintendo and how you like all consoles, etc... Sorry, maybe I am wrong, but it makes it feel as if you are going off a script here.

What was the question again sir?

 

[jts]

I mean, Sony is an important benchmark to beat, the rest is to be expected as a publisher&platform holder vs simple 3rd party publishers. Bad sign if it wasn’t beating most of those.

 

[Team Andromeda]

It breaks gamers hearts that Nintendo will never invest in graphics, they're better known for gameplay and AAA production.

Or more simply put, Handhelds. Nice to see SEGA doing well too

 

[LordKasual]

Quite the opposite. Nintendo gains nothing by investing in expensive tech their audience is not interested in.

Yeah....That means they operate under modern standards.

It just always makes me scratch my head when their claim to fame is "we're all about the gamers" but they never seem to sacrifice anything on the corporate end to back that up. Quite the contrary, they are THE most anti-consumer, anti-fan big manufacturer on the market now.

Meanwhile other companies are literally fighting profit margins to include features, expand options, and remain competitive.

But don't get me started. I do not like Nintendo.


They love to parade their profit margins around in press conferences, but all i ever hear is "Our product is objectively worse and you pay equal for it as if we actually are competing with Sony/Microsoft, so look how rich we've gotten!"

 

[Lionel Richie]

Yeah....That means they operate under modern standards.

They do not friend. Their art direction, animation, level design, gameplay loop and polish are all top notch. They won't do a face scan nightmare where you walk around snowy areas filled with chest high walls talking to your stepson and bonding, so I guess in that sense they don't fit the modern standard. Well thank god for that!

 

[Persian buttercup]

Yeah....That means they operate under modern standards.

It just always makes me scratch my head when their claim to fame is "we're all about the gamers" but they never seem to sacrifice anything on the corporate end to back that up. Quite the contrary, they are THE most anti-consumer, anti-fan big manufacturer on the market now.

Meanwhile other companies are literally fighting profit margins to include features, expand options, and remain competitive.

But don't get me started. I do not like Nintendo.


They love to parade their profit margins around in press conferences, but all i ever hear is "Our product is objectively worse and you pay equal for it as if we actually are competing with Sony/Microsoft, so look how rich we've gotten!"

People who enjoy Animal crossing should think that they don't care about your frustrations.

 

[LordKasual]

They do not friend. Their art direction, animation, level design, gameplay loop and polish are all top notch. They won't do a face scan nightmare where you walk around snowy areas filled with chest high walls talking to your stepson and bonding, so I guess in that sense they don't fit the modern standard. Well thank god for that!

You're talking about Nintendo's actual game developers, who likely have absolutely nothing to do with Nintendo's corporate decisions at all. They're probably the only ones who actually care about gamers.

And if you think they don't fall below standard then you have a short memory. The Wii/DS was absolutely plagued with mediocre Mario games of all types.

But "Modern Standard" doesn't refer to how people make games, it refers to the hardware they use TO make the games. If a studio wants to do face scans, you provide them with the hardware to make use of them. If they want to make simple 1080p cel shaded games, give them the tools to make it look better than ever.

I find it hilarious that BotW gets so much praise for its visuals from Nintendo diehards....but that was possible YEARS before BotW actually came out. The only reason it took so long is because the Wii was incapable of making a generational leap like that. Mario Odyssey is the exact same.

The same "graphics" that people claim they don't need is the same thing that keeps giving them amazing new games to play. But when you think "graphics" the first thing that comes to mind is photorealism and that isn't true.

People who enjoy Animal crossing should think that they don't care about your frustrations.

My girlfriend is one of them, and you're right, she doesn't.

 

[-Arcadia-]

They do not friend. Their art direction, animation, level design, gameplay loop and polish are all top notch. They won't do a face scan nightmare where you walk around snowy areas filled with chest high walls talking to your stepson and bonding, so I guess in that sense they don't fit the modern standard. Well thank god for that!

Lol, that is going to make some of the anti-Nintendo trolls around here burst a forehead vein in anger. Deserved.

I think fun can be found everywhere, or we wouldn’t have a gaming industry, but Nintendo’s brand of fun is sharper than a pin. It’s the difference between regular craftsmanship, and a master craftsman with a truly intricate understanding of what they do.

As someone who games on all consoles, and happily switches back and forth between too many games, there’s always a feeling of an elevated, top-notch standard for Nintendo games.

 

[Elder Legend]

Adults getting emotional over which toy company is more successful will never not be entertaining depressing.

You know what else will never not be depressing? "Adults" who get emotional over random people on a random gaming forum who buy products on the internet and then sell them for a higher price because the market demands it.

 

[Lionel Richie]

I find it hilarious that BotW gets so much praise for its visuals from Nintendo diehards....but that was possible YEARS before BotW actually came out. The only reason it took so long is because the Wii was incapable of making a generational leap like that. Mario Odyssey is the exact same.

Then tell me friend, if BOTW has been possible for years now, how come no other company delivered it? How come its gameplay hasn't been trumped? BOTW doesn't get praised for its visuals, it gets praised for everything. Your argument about their lack of hardware prowess or whatever hits that wall in that their hardware has never been an impediment for them to deliver wholesome games which have always and will always be gameplay based. No cinematic walk-a-thons allowed. The idea that they operate below industry standards is asinine. They operate around the same core philosophy which they always adhered to and to that end their hardware is irrelevant.

If you have a problem with their approach to game design, fine. Don't imply they mail it in though because that narrative is far from the truth. You don't stay as relevant as they have stayed for nearly 40 years if you're just getting by applying the least effort possible.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

This so bizarre to me, you sold your Switch because it doesn't have the game that interest you and you buy it again knowing the system might not have the games you would enjoy and saying it collecting dust now......why?

Why people try so hard convince themselves people who enjoy Nintendo games are lying to themselves. Is it that hard to believe people enjoy game you personally don't like? I own both PS4 and Switch and I enjoy playing Nintendo games because I simply enjoy them.....yes this might sound very shocking to you.

No, you're not getting what I'm saying. I bought a Switch cause it had games that I WANTED and INTERESTED me. When I got them and put TIME into them, over 20 hrs each. I found that they just weren't for me. I spent so much time in there telling myself, it's going to hit. I just need to keep going and it'll happen. But it just didn't happen for me.

I BOUGHT a Switch Lite, because I had new games that INTERESTED me. I played them and they didn't click with me, I WANTED them to click with me. I WANTED to like the.

It might be very SHOCKING to you, but some people don't LOVE Nintendo games. At least not in the way you do, obviously.

 

[BattleScar]

I read through this entire thread. All six pages.

This thread is pure AIDS.

Why can't Nintendo see a year of financial success without that fact being used to take potshots at Sony and/or Microsoft.

 

[kretos]

Zelda BOTW has sold over 1 million in the last quarter that put the game over 18 million copies world wide.

yeah that proves what i said the fans are suckers lol there is no way in hell i'll pay 60$ for a 3 year old game, hell if a 2+ year old game is higher than 30$ i'll have to really think about it

i don't blame N though for cashing in, in the end it's all about the benjamins

 

[Persian buttercup]

I read through this entire thread. All six pages.

This thread is pure AIDS.

Why can't Nintendo see a year of financial success without that fact being used to take potshots at Sony and/or Microsoft.

Nintendo has been successful. Thank you

 

[Clarissa]

Wii U time - Nintendo marches to the beat of its own drum. Do not compare sales of Nintendo consoles to Xbox and Sony. It isn't fair to compare. They aren't competing.


Switch time - Nintendo is beating the shit out of Sony +Ubisoft +Sega+ Capcom combined in sales!!!!!

Anyone see the hypocrisy?

 

[magnumpy]

what complete trash! most of what they've done lately has been to "republish" old games that were already extant on other platforms.

welcome to your future gamers: everything you've already experienced but at lower settings. weeeeeee!

 

[Hobbygaming]

But here's the thing - they can't do it.

If the could, they would. A 'kid friendly' platformer that sells millions and millions would have to have gameplay that's better than Mario Odyssey.

Just in the same way Nintendo doesn't make high fidelity melodramas where you hold down a button to trigger a climbing animation, Sony doesn't go near Nintendo's turf.

I disagree with this. Though not a platformer in the traditional sense, If a kid friendly game like Concrete Genie was a Switch exclusive it would've sold 5-10 million

 

[Lionel Richie]

Wii U time - Nintendo marches to the beat of its own drum. Do not compare sales of Nintendo consoles to Xbox and Sony. It isn't fair to compare. They aren't competing.


Switch time - Nintendo is beating the shit out of Sony +Ubisoft +Sega+ Capcom combined in sales!!!!!

Anyone see the hypocrisy?

Actually most Nintendo fans were pretty resigned to the fact that the Wii U bombed. It is pretty nice that they're beating the shit out all of those combined. It's even nicer when we get impotent anger posts like this masterpiece:

what complete trash! most of what they've done lately has been to "republish" old games that were already extant on other platforms.

welcome to your future gamers: everything you've already experienced but at lower settings. weeeeeee!

That's where the real profits lie, in the sheer unadulterated salty boiling haters being anally devastated and flat out refusing to deal with it.

 

[Clarissa]

Actually most Nintendo fans were pretty resigned to the fact that the Wii U bombed. It is pretty nice that they're beating the shit out all of those combined.

So are Nintendo fans comparing sales and revenue figures now that the Switch is doing exceptionally well?

So is "Nintendo is marching to the beat of its own drum" an excuse made up by nintendo fans during the Wii U era?

I'm curious why suddenly Nintendo is competing again with Xbox and PlayStation in sales and revenue.

 

[Lionel Richie]

So are Nintendo fans comparing sales and revenue figures now that the Switch is doing exceptionally well?

So is "Nintendo is marching to the beat of its own drum" an excuse made up by nintendo fans during the Wii U era?

I'm curious why suddenly Nintendo is competing again with Xbox and PlayStation in sales and revenue.

Not sure why you're ignoring what I said. "Nintendo is marching to the beat of its own drum" wasn't prevalently used by Nintendo fans to excuse the poor sales of the Wii U. Most of us Nintenchads were pretty resigned about it, we weren't in denial, it bombed harder than Death Stranding.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Outside of the online being crap, Nintendo switch is pretty much the best system in a long time imo. Not surprised at the sales.

 

[Punished Miku]

Stay in school kids. If you get a good job, you too can someday afford more than one console.

Then you just have fun and buy whatever games you want. You dont have to put down rival companies to cover up that empty hole inside you.

 

[Clarissa]

Not sure why you're ignoring what I said. "Nintendo is marching to the beat of its own drum" wasn't prevalently used by Nintendo fans to excuse the poor sales of the Wii U. Most of us Nintenchads were pretty resigned about it, we weren't in denial, it bombed harder than Death Stranding.

Nothing can bomb harder than Death Stranding. It is garbage.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Nothing can bomb harder than Death Stranding. It is garbage.

I hope the Kojigod bounces back though with something a little less self indulgent if possible.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

You're talking about Nintendo's actual game developers, who likely have absolutely nothing to do with Nintendo's corporate decisions at all. They're probably the only ones who actually care about gamers.

And if you think they don't fall below standard then you have a short memory. The Wii/DS was absolutely plagued with mediocre Mario games of all types.

But "Modern Standard" doesn't refer to how people make games, it refers to the hardware they use TO make the games. If a studio wants to do face scans, you provide them with the hardware to make use of them. If they want to make simple 1080p cel shaded games, give them the tools to make it look better than ever.

I find it hilarious that BotW gets so much praise for its visuals from Nintendo diehards....but that was possible YEARS before BotW actually came out. The only reason it took so long is because the Wii was incapable of making a generational leap like that. Mario Odyssey is the exact same.

The same "graphics" that people claim they don't need is the same thing that keeps giving them amazing new games to play. But when you think "graphics" the first thing that comes to mind is photorealism and that isn't true.



My girlfriend is one of them, and you're right, she doesn't.

You're talking about Nintendo's actual game developers, who likely have absolutely nothing to do with Nintendo's corporate decisions at all. They're probably the only ones who actually care about gamers.

When nintendo lets its dev do what ever it wants that speaks volumes of how open the hire ups are theirs a reason why the people who where there at the beginning of gaming are still there today at nintendo.

And if you think they don't fall below standard then you have a short memory. The Wii/DS was absolutely plagued with mediocre Mario games of all types.

Galaxy 1 and 2 on the wii and super mario on the DS says hi along with MK wii MK DS, Super Princess Peach DS, Mario 64 DS, mario party wow all those great mario games

But "Modern Standard" doesn't refer to how people make games, it refers to the hardware they use TO make the games.

All console/handheld games are made on a PC

If a studio wants to do face scans, you provide them with the hardware to make use of them.

again made on a pc

If they want to make simple 1080p cel shaded games, give them the tools to make it look better than ever.

So i guess the persona games suck then since P5 barely used any of the ps4s or ps3 power when it launched then.

I find it hilarious that BotW gets so much praise for its visuals from Nintendo diehards

More like it gets praised for its open ended gameplay and well done phyics which is missing in a majority of games now a days.

but that was possible YEARS before BotW actually came out. The only reason it took so long is because the Wii was incapable of making a generational leap like that.

Xenoblade 1 on the wii says hi that game has massive areas

The same "graphics" that people claim they don't need is the same thing that keeps giving them amazing new games to play.

Nintendo games go for more art style then graphical fidelity two different things

But when you think "graphics" the first thing that comes to mind is photorealism and that isn't true.

photorealism isnt an art style its you replicating real life as close as possible.

 

[LittleBusters]

The thing about Nintendo is their game library is much smaller and understandable. Imagine coming into Playstation or XBox and having to wade through 4000+ games on day 1.

 

[Mozza]

yeah that proves what i said the fans are suckers lol there is no way in hell i'll pay 60$ for a 3 year old game, hell if a 2+ year old game is higher than 30$ i'll have to really think about it

i don't blame N though for cashing in, in the end it's all about the benjamins

Well of course you would not pay $60 for a three year old game, you would have bought it for full price at launch, the people buying a Switch right now it's as new a game and they will not complain at the price, calling people suckers is unfair, it's a good game which people see the value in pure and simple, the reason the PS4 and Xbox One's games drop is there are so many of them, a triple AAA must have soon becomes less attractive when the next AAA title comes along.

 

[Azelover]

yeah that proves what i said the fans are suckers lol there is no way in hell i'll pay 60$ for a 3 year old game, hell if a 2+ year old game is higher than 30$ i'll have to really think about it

i don't blame N though for cashing in, in the end it's all about the benjamins

What if it's a timeless game though.

Like Tetris? The value is still very much there, regardless of technology..

you expect it for free?

 

[magnumpy]

What if it's a timeless game though.

Like Tetris? The value is still very much there, regardless of technology..

you expect it for free?

no I expect the developer to pay ME for playing such an ancient cobweb riddled game like Tetris

 

[BigBooper]

What does operating profit mean?

Edit. NM Googled it.

 

[BusierDonkey]

This has been one of my favorite Nintendo gens to date, especially if I'm going back to the launch of the PS4/Xbone in 2013.

The sheer number of great 1st party stuff they've delivered has been awesome even on the WiiU despite it's sale numbers. They killed the 3DS line in a very humane way, slowly dropping off support long after the Switch was out. The support on the Switch has been equally great, I will always have access to more quality 1st part software than I can even play from them.

Glad they're doing well financially. When I'm 80 with memory problems I know I'll enjoy playing the first couple hours of the newest Mario game for the first time every day until a nurse smothers me.

 

[theclaw135]

no I expect the developer to pay ME for playing such an ancient cobweb riddled game like Tetris

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the majority of Switch owners are new to gaming and the Switch is the only device in their home capable of playing video games.
A port or not means zip, zilch to those people.

 

[oagboghi2]

So are Nintendo fans comparing sales and revenue figures now that the Switch is doing exceptionally well?

So is "Nintendo is marching to the beat of its own drum" an excuse made up by nintendo fans during the Wii U era?

I'm curious why suddenly Nintendo is competing again with Xbox and PlayStation in sales and revenue.

You're more obsessed with Nintendo than your imiginary friends is

 

[LordKasual]

Then tell me friend, if BOTW has been possible for years now, how come no other company delivered it?

First off, BotW is one of my favorite games ever, but i wasn't talking about its "gameplay". I'm talking about its existence.

Breath of the Wild is like other japanese titles like MGS5 and Final Fantasy XV that made a generational jump to open world gameplay, but the FOUNDATION for them even being able to accomplish that was a trail blazed by generations of other open world games (GTA, Far Cry, Elder Scrolls, ect) where developers went through trial, error, and optimization to set a standard.

Make no mistake, there is no way in hell that Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey would have existed without those games. Open world games aren't just about "design", they're about technology.

So these games that traditionally havent gone to Nintendo systems (due to HARDWARE LIMITATIONS first and foremost) that you'd call a "WALK-A-THON" are progenitors to Breath of the Wild.

Your argument about their lack of hardware prowess or whatever hits that wall in that their hardware has never been an impediment for them to deliver wholesome games which have always and will always be gameplay based.

1) The vast majority of videoGAMEs are "GAMEPLAY BASED", whatever the hell that means. And,

2) Yeah, except the games we've both mentioned are proof that hardware walls are absolutely a thing and Nintendo is not immune to them.

No cinematic walk-a-thons allowed. The idea that they operate below industry standards is asinine. They operate around the same core philosophy which they always adhered to and to that end their hardware is irrelevant.

They do. Smash Brothers has garbage netcode. The Switch released without an ethernet port. The console has almost no out-of-the-box support for streaming, sharing, or otherwise easily connecting with friends outside of inputting some silly code. The UI is charming but otherwise quite lacking. Joycons are fucking trash.

You seem to be conflating Nintendo's handful of 1st party games with the ENTIRE company and i don't understand why you're doing that.

But even considering their games, Nintendo's lackluster hardware (and design sensibilities regarding MODERN INDUSTRY STANDARDS in things like network capability, sharing, hardware performance, ect) has resulted in limitations in game design.

Them being able to work around them doesn't make this not a fact, but even games on competent hardware have limitations so moot point.

If you have a problem with their approach to game design, fine. Don't imply they mail it in though because that narrative is far from the truth. You don't stay as relevant as they have stayed for nearly 40 years if you're just getting by applying the least effort possible.

I do not have an issue with their approach to game design (most of the time, Smash Bros is an exception for example).

But yes, they tend to put in the least amount of effort to stay console relevant because they know the thing that drives their sales is their reputation and 1st party titles.


Spoilering the rest of this because these arguments get really old really fast. Nearly forgot why i stopped arguing with Nintendo loyalists.

Spoiler

When nintendo lets its dev do what ever it wants that speaks volumes of how open the hire ups are theirs a reason why the people who where there at the beginning of gaming are still there today at nintendo.

Literally every big developer does this though. Except when MS or Sony does it, they're given SIGNIFICANTLY better tools and freedom to create with.

Again, i'm not complaining about Nintendo's 1st party output, it's fine in my eyes.

The only thing i have an issue with is people who claim that they do things other developers don't do, which is demonstrably false. It's just VERY false.

So i guess the persona games suck then since P5 barely used any of the ps4s or ps3 power when it launched then.

This would suggest that games have to use all the horsepower of a console to be good, which is asinine.

But it would be better for devs to be given a CHOICE of how much horsepower they want to use within their budget, instead of being constrained by a technical ceiling.

More like it gets praised for its open ended gameplay and well done phyics which is missing in a majority of games now a days.

You mean present in pretty much every open world game on earth for the last 10 years?

The hell are you talking about?????

Nintendo games go for more art style then graphical fidelity two different things

They actually aim for both, they just have to lean on artstyle more because the console can't do both. Again, this isn't a jab. It's just a fact.

Go look at Guilty Gear Strive, Ni no Kuni 2, Blue Protocol, Granblue Fantasy, or even games like Final Fantasy 7 Remake which are highly stylized except with alot of fidelity behind it.

photorealism isnt an art style its you replicating real life as close as possible.

Except even photorealistic games like Uncharted, GTA, and Devil May Cry 5 all have their own artstyles to them.

More work goes into getting high-fidelity art right than otherwise. It's the same amount of effort, there's just more technical cohesion required to make it look good.

 

[theclaw135]

Who needs loyalty? Objectively, Nintendo has the strongest critical reception and public recognition alike of any game company.

 

[Lionel Richie]

First off, BotW is one of my favorite games ever, but i wasn't talking about its "gameplay". I'm talking about its existence.

Breath of the Wild is like other japanese titles like MGS5 and Final Fantasy XV that made a generational jump to open world gameplay, but the FOUNDATION for them even being able to accomplish that was a trail blazed by generations of other open world games (GTA, Far Cry, Elder Scrolls, ect) where developers went through trial, error, and optimization to set a standard.

Make no mistake, there is no way in hell that Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey would have existed without those games. Open world games aren't just about "design", they're about technology.

So these games that traditionally havent gone to Nintendo systems (due to HARDWARE LIMITATIONS first and foremost) that you'd call a "WALK-A-THON" are progenitors to Breath of the Wild.

I'm confused here... BOTW isn't a foundational game because it's inspired by GTA, Far Cry, Elder Scrolls and therefore it should be seen as negative to Nintendo that these games existed before but not on a Nintendo console? And that's a consequence of Nintendo relying on weaker hardware? Just so we're clear, that's it, right?

That's bullshit. You're ignoring the games that were on Nintendo hardware. We can go days arguing about the merits of the Wii library for instance and while the weak third-party support was a negative, it isn't a deal breaker in that the Wii managed to have a considerable line-up in spite of that (which you may not like and that's fine, but that's also besides the point). BOTW isn't more inspired by Elder Scrolls than it is inspired by Wind Waker. You can't play Far Cry on Nintendo, but you can't play Wind Waker elsewhere. It's the Yin to that Yang. Good thing we're all adults who can buy more than one gaming device.

1) The vast majority of videoGAMEs are "GAMEPLAY BASED", whatever the hell that means. And,

2) Yeah, except the games we've both mentioned are proof that hardware walls are absolutely a thing and Nintendo is not immune to them.

1) You'd hope that's the case, but sadly it is not.
2) And Nintendo finds a workaround that. You don't play Far Cry on Nintendo, but you can play stuff that you can't play elsewhere. It's a balance homie.

They do. Smash Brothers has garbage netcode. The Switch released without an ethernet port. The console has almost no out-of-the-box support for streaming, sharing, or otherwise easily connecting with friends outside of inputting some silly code. The UI is charming but otherwise quite lacking. Joycons are fucking trash.

You seem to be conflating Nintendo's handful of 1st party games with the ENTIRE company and i don't understand why you're doing that.

But even considering their games, Nintendo's lackluster hardware (and design sensibilities regarding MODERN INDUSTRY STANDARDS in things like network capability, sharing, hardware performance, ect) has resulted in limitations in game design.

Them being able to work around them doesn't make this not a fact, but even games on competent hardware have limitations so moot point.

Those are some tired talking points, I was sure you'd mention the joycon drift and had to do a double take to check that wasn't the case.

Other than that, I don't know what you expect out of this line of reasoning. Yeah those things are problems of varying degrees, but they don't stop people from enjoying their service. It sounds like you think you're arguing against people who will blindly defend Nintendo and deny the negative aspects that any fucking company will have, but that's not the case. It's a good stuff outweigh the bad scenario and the limitations in game design clearly haven't been felt strongly enough to the point it becomes an actual issue.

I do not have an issue with their approach to game design (most of the time, Smash Bros is an exception for example).

But yes, they tend to put in the least amount of effort to stay console relevant because they know the thing that drives their sales is their reputation and 1st party titles.

Nope, what drives their sales is the quality in their product. Don't overthink this. It may not be the hardware, but it for sure is the software. The games. The games are fucking good, there's no such thing as free reputation. They don't sell on name alone, it doesn't work like that. They deliver what people expect of them. I do not understand the difficulty you're having. Are you angry because you can't play certain games on a Nintendo console? But you can play them elsewhere. You know what you can't play elsewhere, right?

 

[Mozza]

what complete trash! most of what they've done lately has been to "republish" old games that were already extant on other platforms.

welcome to your future gamers: everything you've already experienced but at lower settings. weeeeeee!

Or welcome to the next generation of playing the same games with big movie intros and cut scenes, the same tired old game mechanics and main protagonist, all with improved textures that no one outside the core minority will even notice,

 

[theclaw135]

Or welcome to the next generation of playing the same games with big movie intros and cut scenes, the same tired old game mechanics and main protagonist, all with improved textures that no one outside the core minority will even notice,

Frankly that's one of the biggest problems right now. Texture quality hasn't caught up to environmental detail. Game worlds are denser and wider, yet falter to close examination.

 

[Clarissa]

Or welcome to the next generation of playing the same games with big movie intros and cut scenes, the same tired old game mechanics and main protagonist, all with improved textures that no one outside the core minority will even notice,

This seems to be something all Nintendo fans spew out.

 

[Mozza]

This seems to be something all Nintendo fans spew out.

I have no issues with these triple AAA games and buy them for my Xbox One, but that does not mean I can't also like the art direction of Nintendo games, and there titles would not benefit from ultra realistic gaming textures etc, my other comment was that the masses do not care for any of this still stands.

 

[Mozza]

Frankly that's one of the biggest problems right now. Texture quality hasn't caught up to environmental detail. Game worlds are denser and wider, yet falter to close examination.

True, but outside of the core minorities who actually notices?.

 

[Dontero]

Switch is very succesful but people keep forgeting that Nintendo sacreficed their one hardware for that success.
In Wii era you had both Wii and DS selling each 100mln+ with DS going to 150mln.

It was obvious that Switch will be success when they would combine libraries of portable and homeconsole nin games but they paid the price for it.

 

[jts]

Switch is very succesful but people keep forgeting that Nintendo sacreficed their one hardware for that success.
In Wii era you had both Wii and DS selling each 100mln+ with DS going to 150mln.

It was obvious that Switch will be success when they would combine libraries of portable and homeconsole nin games but they paid the price for it.

We’re not even talking about unit sales here. The subject is Nintendo is one of the most profitable companies in gaming with their current strategy. Not good enough?

There was no price to pay for Nintendo. The Switch comes off the massive failure that the Wii U was. The truth is that the market for Nintendo was shrinking and the Wii was a flash in the pan, capturing a massively casual crowd that these days mostly play on their phones. It’s not the benchmark for what Nintendo did 2 generations later.