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[Peltz]

Last night I played my Dreamcast in 480p native for the first time. SoulCalibur was like

I've seen Dreamcast in 480p before, but not native. When it's on the right CRT it's just so darn clean and the colors are so rich! Now I'm going to need to pick up some more Dreamcast games.

The rabbit hole gets deeper every day. You guys are going to think I'm nuts, but I think 480p native can sometimes look cleaner than 720p scaled on a modern display.

 

[Laevateinn]

I think part of the reason I’m so jaded on modern games is nothing looks as good as my Dreamcast did on my PC monitor back in the day.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

I almost accidentally destroyed my OSSC yesterday while redoing my setup. Plugged it into the wrong power supply, heard a pop and saw the damn thing smoking. Killed the power to the surge protector and let it sit for a bit and the thing is working fine now. But damm, that was scary!

 

[Peltz]

I think part of the reason I'm so jaded on modern games is nothing looks as good as my Dreamcast did on my PC monitor back in the day.

I wouldn't go THAT far. Maybe no hardware has the same impact from a graphical standpoint since then. That leap was pretty nuts at the time.

But today's games look incredible. When GAF nitpicks console screenshots, I can't help but feel they're acting a bit spoiled.

 

[socksfelloff]

Last night I played my Dreamcast in 480p native for the first time. SoulCalibur was like

I've seen Dreamcast in 480p before, but not native. When it's on the right CRT it's just so darn clean and the colors are so rich! Now I'm going to need to pick up some more Dreamcast games.

The rabbit hole gets deeper every day. You guys are going to think I'm nuts, but I think 480p native can sometimes look cleaner than 720p scaled on a modern display.

There's alot of Wii games that look unbelivable on a native 480p screen and look like booty butt cheeks on modern displays.

I wouldn't go THAT far. Maybe no hardware has the same impact from a graphical standpoint since then. That leap was pretty nuts at the time.

But today's games look incredible. When GAF nitpicks console screenshots, I can't help but feel they're acting a bit spoiled.

I think the act of looking at a screenshot of a game is stupid. You don't ever sit there and stare at a still screen. Things that occur during regular gameplay are what matter to me like shimmering, stuttering, frame drops etc. I dont care if when you pause and zoom in you can see the difference between between 900p and 1080p just play the fucking game.

 

[Laevateinn]

Maybe it's because most modern games aim for "realism" but I've never found graphics impressive since the Dreamcast aside from Valkyria Chronicles.

 

[stranno]

I have a cheap Dreamcast VGABox/SDCard reader and it works fine for VGA.

Is there any way to connect that to XRGB-Mini? Any adaptor or something?

 

[Yawnny]

I think most here would agree that 480P on a native 480P monitor looks better than a 720P upscale. Dreamcast VGA box looks incredible on a 4:3 computer screen.

I still laugh at games like Battlefield 1 on Xbox One S.. 720P upscaled to 4K.. looks like smeared shit.

 

[Peltz]

I have a cheap Dreamcast VGABox/SDCard reader and it works fine for VGA.

Is there any way to connect that to XRGB-Mini? Any adaptor or something?

Toro by Behar Bros. It lets you output 240p, 480i, and 480p from Dreamcast through a SCART cable.

 

[Yawnny]

I think the act of looking at a screenshot of a game is stupid. You don't ever sit there and stare at a still screen. Things that occur during regular gameplay are what matter to me like shimmering, stuttering, frame drops etc. I dont care if when you pause and zoom in you can see the difference between between 900p and 1080p just play the fucking game.

I think there's lots of detailed to be gleaned from looking at a screenshot. Not for pointing out jaggies or aberrations.. but to see all the little details in the environment that might not be seen during regular game play.. like little trinkets on cabinet shelves, stuff like that.

I'll even stare at a screenshot from a Super Nintendo game, just for the artistic appreciation aspect of it all.

 

[bodine1231]

I bought a Toro 3 months ago and still haven’t taken it out the wrapper,maybe I should get to it lol

 

[stranno]

Toro by Behar Bros. It lets you output 240p, 480i, and 480p from Dreamcast through a SCART cable.

Yes, but thats another VGA Box without SD reader, i was looking for a solution with the VGA Box i was talking about.

 

[Yawnny]

Yes, but thats another VGA Box without SD reader, i was looking for a solution with the VGA Box i was talking about.

I think if you went with the Framemeister you would just ditch the VGA box.

 

[stranno]

I think if you went with the Framemeister you would just ditch the VGA box.

I need the SD reader too..

And there's no stock anyway.

I bought the XRGB years ago when it was far more expensive. Now its pretty "cheap".

 

[Peltz]

I need the SD reader too..

And there's no stock anyway.

I bought the XRGB years ago when it was far more expensive. Now its pretty "cheap".

Get a Kenzei from Behar Bros instead.

It converts VGA input to RGBs output. Of course, if you go that route, you'll miss out on 240p and 480i functionality for games that require it.

Speaking of which, what is the true max resolution of SCART/RGBs? Not that I have any use for it, but I wonder if the Kenzei could take a 720p/1080i VGA signal and output it in SCART/RGBS format. It could be a great device for playing PC games on a CRT monitor.

 

[Hideki Kamiya]

Last night I played my Dreamcast in 480p native for the first time. SoulCalibur was like

I've seen Dreamcast in 480p before, but not native. When it's on the right CRT it's just so darn clean and the colors are so rich! Now I'm going to need to pick up some more Dreamcast games.

The rabbit hole gets deeper every day. You guys are going to think I'm nuts, but I think 480p native can sometimes look cleaner than 720p scaled on a modern display.

What device are you using to do 480p? I used my toro a few nights ago to play some Third Strike and it looked fucking amazing.

The Toro has a scanline option which made SF3 look even better.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

When you guys say native 480P on a CRT are you referring to your PVMs or to a CRT computer that has native 480P. Most Computer CRT monitors I've seen all had much higher resolutions than that even in the late 90s. I can't remember monitor resolutions prior to the late 90's tbh because I was so young prior to that and didn't toy around with settings because everything worked on the PC's my dad had got me.

I want to pick up a CRT computer monitor but everything I see does much higher resolutions with support for 480P. Would my assumption that the scaling would not introduce input lag be correct since it naively supports 480?

 

[Peltz]

What device are you using to do 480p? I used my toro a few nights ago to play some Third Strike and it looked fucking amazing.

The Toro has a scanline option which made SF3 look even better.

When you guys say native 480P on a CRT are you referring to your PVMs or to a CRT computer that has native 480P. Most Computer CRT monitors I've seen all had much higher resolutions than that even in the late 90s. I can't remember monitor resolutions prior to the late 90's tbh because I was so young prior to that and didn't toy around with settings because everything worked on the PC's my dad had got me.

I want to pick up a CRT computer monitor but everything I see does much higher resolutions with support for 480P. Would my assumption that the scaling would not introduce input lag be correct since it naively supports 480?

I'm using a Toro and PVM 20L5. I would think, however, that PC CRT monitors can do 480p natively without scaling, even if they are capable of a higher resolution.

 

[Yawnny]

When you guys say native 480P on a CRT are you referring to your PVMs or to a CRT computer that has native 480P. Most Computer CRT monitors I've seen all had much higher resolutions than that even in the late 90s. I can't remember monitor resolutions prior to the late 90's tbh because I was so young prior to that and didn't toy around with settings because everything worked on the PC's my dad had got me.

I want to pick up a CRT computer monitor but everything I see does much higher resolutions with support for 480P. Would my assumption that the scaling would not introduce input lag be correct since it naively supports 480?

I was referring to a computer monitor for my Dreamcast VGA experience.

From my understanding it wouldn't be "technically" 480 P native, but the computer monitors adjustments to 480 P seemed really accurate and Dreamcast looked amaze-balls

 

[Barrel Cannon]

I'm using a Toro and PVM 20L5. I would think, however, that PC CRT monitors can do 480p natively without scaling, even if they are capable of a higher resolution.

I was referring to a computer monitor for my Dreamcast VGA experience.

From my understanding it wouldn't be "technically" 480 P native, but the computer monitors adjustments to 480 P seemed really accurate and Dreamcast looked amaze-balls

Well I guess that settles it. I'll pick one up. It'll be worth it for the Xbox alone and eventually when I dip into getting a DC it'll be useful for that as well.

 

[Peltz]

Well I guess that settles it. I'll pick one up. It'll be worth it for the Xbox alone and eventually when I dip into getting a DC it'll be useful for that as well.

Sorry, my post should have said "I think that" they can do it without scaling. I don't have any firsthand evidence.

 

[Yawnny]

Well I guess that settles it. I'll pick one up. It'll be worth it for the Xbox alone and eventually when I dip into getting a DC it'll be useful for that as well.

Awesome! I tracked down a Dell 4:3 flatscreen monitor. My work was giving them away. Dreamcast looked so friggin' sharp.

 

[Producer]

how do i go about using 240p test suite to determine how much input lag a tv has? I was thinking of running the manual input lag test on both the tv and a crt, then taking a picture or video, does that work?

 

[Yawnny]

how do i go about using 240p test suite to determine how much input lag a tv has? I was thinking of running the manual input lag test on both the tv and a crt, then taking a picture or video, does that work?

The manual lag test will give you numbers when you're done so you can compare numbers when running it on another set.

I burned a copy of the suite to run on my Dreamcast, so that's how I run my copy of the suite.

 

[davidwhangchoi]

I think part of the reason I’m so jaded on modern games is nothing looks as good as my Dreamcast did on my PC monitor back in the day.

i need a dreamcast. but first looking at a pc engine.

 

[Hideki Kamiya]

I'm using a Toro and PVM 20L5. I would think, however, that PC CRT monitors can do 480p natively without scaling, even if they are capable of a higher resolution.

Nice. Praise be to Toro, it's a magical device.

 

[Peltz]

Nice. Praise be to Toro, it's a magical device.

Magical? Yes. Durable? Not at all. Careful with the cable that plugs into the DC. Don't breathe on it wrong.

 

[Yawnny]

I still want to try out their Dreamcast HDMI box: Akura

 

[Ruprit]

Magical? Yes. Durable? Not at all. Careful with the cable that plugs into the DC. Don't breathe on it wrong.

My Toro arrived with a broken cable. The replacement arrived non-fictional too. Here's hoping that the third time is the charm.

 

[Peltz]

My Toro arrived with a broken cable. The replacement arrived non-fictional too. Here's hoping that the third time is the charm.

That sucks.... My first cable worked but then stopped working when I unplugged and replugged it one-too-many times. I won't unplug this one ever.

 

[socksfelloff]

I feel the need to point out that grabbing VGA out of the dreamcast is about the easiest mod on the planet. If any of ya'll are tired of the poor quality "boxes" out there you can make your own for pennies!

 

[purdobol]

When you guys say native 480P on a CRT are you referring to your PVMs or to a CRT computer that has native 480P. Most Computer CRT monitors I've seen all had much higher resolutions than that even in the late 90s. I can't remember monitor resolutions prior to the late 90's tbh because I was so young prior to that and didn't toy around with settings because everything worked on the PC's my dad had got me.

I want to pick up a CRT computer monitor but everything I see does much higher resolutions with support for 480P. Would my assumption that the scaling would not introduce input lag be correct since it naively supports 480?

There's no "native" resolution when it comes to CRT diplays. There's also no such thing as scaling
Also no matter what res, the input lag will be almost non existent.

Of course iq can vary from set to set. Different dot pitch, cirtcutry and so on.

 

[Hideki Kamiya]

Magical? Yes. Durable? Not at all. Careful with the cable that plugs into the DC. Don't breathe on it wrong.

I know what you mean. My first connector for the Toro to the DC broke. The design is really bad but luckily they shipped me a new cable for free.

 

[Peltz]

There's no "native" resolution when it comes to CRT diplays. There's also no such thing as scaling
Also no matter what res, the input lag will be almost non existent.

Of course iq can vary from set to set. Different dot pitch, cirtcutry and so on.

Most consumer HD CRTs do scale the image and don't display low res source material natively.

 

[Peagles]

Most consumer HD CRTs do scale the image and don't display low res source material natively.

HDTV CRTs are just a small slice of CRTs though. I'd consider them an exception. The discussion is about CRT computer monitors too and I haven't come across any of those that behave like the HDTV CRTs.

In related news... Getting my CPD-200ES today, I'll put some pics up this afternoon hopefully!

 

[Peltz]

HDTV CRTs are just a small slice of CRTs though. I'd consider them an exception. The discussion is about CRT computer monitors too and I haven't come across any of those that behave like the HDTV CRTs.

In related news... Getting my CPD-200ES today, I'll put some pics up this afternoon hopefully!

Enjoy! That should be great.

 

[purdobol]

Most consumer HD CRTs do scale the image and don't display low res source material natively.

Only TV sets, and only HD ones. Also 100Hz TV sets do weird stuff with low res.
But it's artificial in a way. Those units process input signals by design, not technology itself.
Hypothetically you could take any CRT and "convert" it to display what you want (15kHz, 24kHz, 31kHz).

 

[Peltz]

Only TV sets, and only HD ones. Also 100Hz TV sets do weird stuff with low res.
But it's artificial in a way. Those units process input signals by design, not technology itself.
Hypothetically you could take any CRT and "convert" it to display what you want (15kHz, 24kHz, 31kHz).

That's news to me. That's crazy. How does that work?

 

[purdobol]

That's news to me. That's crazy. How does that work?

Strong emphasis on hypothetically. You would need to design and make custom circuit board that handles the signal you want. Think of it as "drivers" for a tube

Still there are ways to cheat the system, and display 200p for example on CRT monitor.

 

[Vespa]

I almost accidentally destroyed my OSSC yesterday while redoing my setup. Plugged it into the wrong power supply, heard a pop and saw the damn thing smoking. Killed the power to the surge protector and let it sit for a bit and the thing is working fine now. But damm, that was scary!

I did the same, absent-mindedly used the wrong PSU when I first got it and had smoke coming out of it! Apparently, that's the ESD protection kicking in, your D5 diode or F1 fuse might be blown, not sure if it'll protect the OSSC a second time around.

Last night I played my Dreamcast in 480p native for the first time. SoulCalibur was like

I've seen Dreamcast in 480p before, but not native. When it's on the right CRT it's just so darn clean and the colors are so rich! Now I'm going to need to pick up some more Dreamcast games.

The rabbit hole gets deeper every day. You guys are going to think I'm nuts, but I think 480p native can sometimes look cleaner than 720p scaled on a modern display.

Dreamcast's 480p is glorious, so clean looking on a PC CRT. I'm looking forward to getting the HDMI mod for the Wii to see if it can produce a sharper 480p image than it can currently, it seems lacking a little when compared to a DC. I think I remember SixFortyFive testing Wii vs GC 480p and GC came out on top with a slightly sharper image.

 

[Peltz]

I did the same, absent-mindedly used the wrong PSU when I first got it and had smoke coming out of it! Apparently, that's the ESD protection kicking in, your D5 diode or F1 fuse might be blown, not sure if it'll protect the OSSC a second time around.



Dreamcast's 480p is glorious, so clean looking on a PC CRT. I'm looking forward to getting the HDMI mod for the Wii to see if it can produce a sharper 480p image than it can currently, it seems lacking a little when compared to a DC. I think I remember SixFortyFive testing Wii vs GC 480p and GC came out on top with a slightly sharper image.

I think later Wii models are likely just as sharp. I genuinely can't see a difference between my Wii and GCN via component on a CRT.

 

[Peagles]

Husband just said “I should take the baby for a couple of hours so you can get your retro setup finished”...

I’m like that smoke outline of Homer when they tell him there’s a food truck downstairs lol.

 

[socksfelloff]

Dreamcast's 480p is glorious, so clean looking on a PC CRT. I'm looking forward to getting the HDMI mod for the Wii to see if it can produce a sharper 480p image than it can currently, it seems lacking a little when compared to a DC. I think I remember SixFortyFive testing Wii vs GC 480p and GC came out on top with a slightly sharper image.

The gamecube is definetly a better image but it's not as night and day as others would make you think. I did a comparison a few years back which retrorgb included on his page( thanks!)

https://socksfelloff.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/gamecube-vs-nintendont-vs-wii/

Husband just said “I should take the baby for a couple of hours so you can get your retro setup finished”...

I’m like that smoke outline of Homer when they tell him there’s a food truck downstairs lol.

You found a good one!

 

[Producer]

I think later Wii models are likely just as sharp. I genuinely can't see a difference between my Wii and GCN via component on a CRT.

Do you mean those later models that removed the GC ports? Or the og Wii's?

 

[Peltz]

Do you mean those later models that removed the GC ports? Or the og Wii's?

OG Wii. Mine is the red one in particular.

 

[theSlacker]

Husband just said “I should take the baby for a couple of hours so you can get your retro setup finished”...

I’m like that smoke outline of Homer when they tell him there’s a food truck downstairs lol.

While I normally feel like the brain dead version of Homer like when his brain decides it's had enough of his shit and leaves him.

 

[KyleCross]

Just snagged a 1996 Sony Trinitron XBR but I have a problem, the screen is at a funny angle. It's narrow at the top (to the point you can see black space) then wide towards the bottom.

I assume this is some picture setting value that needs adjusting but I'm having trouble figuring it out.

 

[HideoKojimaJr]

Just snagged a 1996 Sony Trinitron XBR but I have a problem, the screen is at a funny angle. It's narrow at the top (to the point you can see black space) then wide towards the bottom.

I assume this is some picture setting value that needs adjusting but I'm having trouble figuring it out.

If it's not fixable with geometry settings in the menu then you're going to have to access the service menu.

 

[dubc35]

I think pin phase is the equivalent PVM adjustment. Do you have a service manual? What is the model number?

 

[Peltz]

Husband just said “I should take the baby for a couple of hours so you can get your retro setup finished”...

I’m like that smoke outline of Homer when they tell him there’s a food truck downstairs lol.

Sounds like a keeper.