Both, I guess. I also enjoyed the part that made light of a serious situation. Because I think that's okay. My girlfriend thought it was funny too. Am I allowed to enjoy it now? Or is that still a no no?
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
PS, I Love You- Greg Miller's new PlayStation Podcast
- Thread starter EdReedFan20
- Start date
Both, I guess. I also enjoyed the part that made light of a serious situation. Because I think that's okay. My girlfriend thought it was funny too. Am I allowed to enjoy it now? Or is that still a no no?
Glass Shark
Banned
Enjoy what you want. Just understand what you're enjoying and what it says about you as a person. If you're okay with that, more power to you.
Audioboxer
Member
I thought he done gaming first and foremost? Is he fully independent too? IIRC his main job is still working for and under Polygon, a gaming site.
My points above was more so applicable to stand-ups, and comedians who are independent, as they won't get "fired" for telling jokes. Colin works for KF, it's a gaming show, and he can be "fired" from it. All of which can be a consequence for speech. It doesn't mean I have to root for the mobs as I said who go straight to, what's this person's HR department, I demand their job due to a mean tweet.
I think your humor is broken, that you enjoyed it speaks to you being shitty container bereft of any morality.
Don't forget his continued and unnecessary defenses of Bannon.
Hydranockz
Member
An odd distinction to make...
I don't know the exact numbers of what shares of his income come from where, but he is a professional comedian. period.
Much more so than Colin. period.
Any arbitrary bar he needs to cross to be eligible for that title set by you is ... well ... arbitrary, i feel. He's not a "citizen telling jokes".
PhilTheAussieGuy
Member
Obama an idiot is confirmed!
I prefer to let what I do and how I treat people define me, rather than what I find humorous for a moment.
Audioboxer
Member
In relevance to my post, not at all. Easy to grasp. If you have an employer, especially one not within the realms of comedy, your speech may well get you into bother. Just like PDP, Disney suddenly got worried about their PR, so sacked him.
Okay, if I let you win there, don't you agree Polygon could sack Justin for telling jokes enough people get offended by and complain? That is my point. Many stand-ups and independent comedians do not have anyone to answer for when thousands of people start complaining about their jokes.
Hydranockz
Member
That's pretty much what we are doing in regards to Cooooliiiiinnnn
ok, i see where you're coming from.
I'm rather sure that, even without his gig at Polygon, Justin would be able to support himself doing his podcast formats.
i mean, he must be, seeing how little content he produces for the site. Like, what does he do beyond doing a the monthly "besties" and those (imho) shitty videos with Russ Frushtick?
This isn't about winning. I was just informing you how Justin McElroy is a professional comedian which you were unaware of.
And you're still drawing arbitrary lines.
I think the part that used wordplay to misinterpret the hashtag and the part that perpetuated the banter between sexes was the funny part.
You can take "women drivers am I right?" or "men are useless" flavour of the joke as an insult or you can just admit that its a funny stereotype that we all universally know isn't true. As long as it doesn't get to a chauvinistic level, I don't think gender banter is that bad. It can be funny
Audioboxer
Member
Yeah, I wasn't trying to necessarily say he wasn't a "comedian", so maybe a bad phrasing, but point out how if you have an employer, especially one not within the realms of traditional comedy, your speech may get you into trouble, even if it's legal.
Hence, consequences aren't always evenly applied to every citizen on the internet.
That is something Colin has to lie with the fishes on. Especially when we do have many who instantly want people fired and disciplined for speech these days. That isn't to say people cannot call it out, but I do have a bone to pick with some moral busy bodies who can't leave it at calling it out/blocking/reporting, but want everyone financially suffering. That is not very libertarian by nature, and probably more authoritarian-conservative than some want to believe.
Glass Shark
Banned
Clearly the most reasonable explanation for Justin being inclusive is that he has an employer, not that he's a good and empathetic person.
I don't think it says anything about me as a person. You clearly do, and that's fine, but I don't think laughing at sexist jokes, and then laughing harder when a bunch of people get upset about it, makes someone a sexist. I also don't think it makes them "mean" or lack empathy.
Here's something else that happened on Wednesday: https://news.sol.org.tr/islamist-group-assaults-women-university-students-171773
I find this pretty fucking upsetting. I certainly have empathy for those women. I think if you asked Colin, he would too. Is it possible to laugh at a dumb joke and also have empathy for the people that joke makes fun of?
Okay, help me understand this. I laughed at a joke and am, therefore, "bereft of any morality?"
Like, you sincerely believe I lack a moral code because of this?
What?
Hydranockz
Member
I'm sure of you asked Colin his literal response would be to call you a humourless sack of shit.
Glass Shark
Banned
It sure makes you pretty hypocritical in my eyes, and it makes me less likely to believe in your "empathy." It probably makes the subject of the joke less likely to look to you as an ally to their plight.
tiredheadcrab
Member
You must be fun at parties.
I disagree, but I guess that's the level of discourse I'm dealing with here.
Yeah, totally. You guys are right. Colin is nothing but a rotten sexist piece of shit. His poor girlfriend doesn't realize the prison she lives in with this monster. They looked happy in that picture he tweeted after the joke (read: sexist diatribe), but that's because she doesn't realize how terrible the man she loves is.
Use your reading skills and go back several pages
People like this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...dominance-women-misogyny-sexism-a7501651.html should put Colin's little tweet in perspective.
But it won't.
If I remember correctly she did a tweet telling people to get off his back and that he's not sexist.
Audioboxer
Member
People are going to view you like that regardless, all you can really do is live your life as you are and the people that matter, those around you/friends/in close company will really know you. People on the internet don't really know you, and that is something even Colin seems to fail to grasp. While it can be annoying to see random posters thousands of miles away from you make complex judgments about your character/morality and how you live your life, there isn't too much point fighting back. Playing the victim when the shit gets flung, rather than just shrugging it off and knowing said commentators are so wrong is another thing Colin does wrong. That's where he gets zero sympathy from me.
Hypocrisy around playing a victim is tiring. It's one thing he does on purpose though, like many, be edgy then run away screaming victimhood. If you're going to play with fire on social jokes, deal with the blowback. As I tried to highlight above though, maybe not the best of ideas to do it if you cannot support yourself independently and/or have an employer not worried about PR. As people will want your job, and often employers (understandably) care far more about their PR than their employees antics.
Alternatively, as I've also said in the other KF topic, you can just keep some jokes behind closed doors and with friends. There is no need to verbally shit all your thoughts all over social media. It's not always a smart idea. Often, social media is a mistake, 100% of the time. People can't call you some "hypocrite" if they cannot hear your personal jokes. Hence, most of this thread will have even made edgy jokes behind closed doors with a handful of friends. It's human to laugh, even times at concerning things. That's often how we try to deal with things that make us upset or depressed.
Colins GF can rightfully laugh at the joke, and they can both go to sleep. He doesn't need to go on Twitter and fire it off as his hot take for the day, even although he can do it, and did. Just saying wisdom is lost on some at times.
The Salt Life
Banned
Good thing you're not an authority figure on who could help the less fortunate out. You would probably be turning away people at the door for the slightest offense.
I laughed at a few homeless person jokes in my life, "this old box" was my favorite skit on In Living Color, I better stop donating to the poor or buying that dude that lives in the streets outside the pizza place a $20 helping of pasta every now and then because I am no true ally to the homeless due to my sense of humor. Come on man you don't see how black and white you're being? You can laugh at something and still show empathy in other ways.
He is going to have to go back further than that haha, I would start at 10 pages back.
Glass Shark
Banned
A stunted sense of empathy is not a trait exclusive to men. Makes sense that a guy like Colin would attract someone who shares his belief system. The fact that a woman agrees with him doesn't automatically make him right.
Hydranockz
Member
I think you're pretty spot on with this. I haven't seen anyone here calling for him to lose his job. I've certainly seen people speculating that it may happen but I feel that's different.
I wish us women were more empathetic to women
Well then you and I are just not going to agree. I've been following comedy since I was in jr high and stumbled into a George Carlin special on HBO late one night. Since then, I've laughed at every group of people, minorities, causes, and beliefs, including my own. I've also been able to have relationships with, work with, love with, laugh with, and even, oddly enough, empathize with these groups of people as well. This includes my wonderful girlfriend, who's past involves abusive men, and I've had the opportunity to watch her take charge of her life in a way that most people never have to. She's faced more adversity than anyone I know, and she kicks fucking ass.
She also thought it was a really funny joke, and slugged me in the arm with a big grin on her face when I showed it to her.
I think people are more nuanced than you give them credit for.
Audioboxer
Member
Heck, even I have (mainly because I do think KF fans want more gaming less Colins politics)! Not on GAF, but there are some of the usual Twitter eggs in replies saying Greg and Co need to sack him now. He has to accept he will get that, and ultimately, anyone with some wisdom could see all of this shit happening a million miles off. Personally, I think he is trying to play with fire to get his 'grand' split from KF into doing his own thing. Not sure why he wouldn't like most other people just sit down with the guys and hash it out, rather than try and be a drama merchant about it. This is my speculation, though, he may well continue on with KF. Who knows, it's a mess anyway. Getting onto Rubin, with Rubin saying some nice things about him clearly got to his head. Rubins metrics are pretty damn good for a single person, so it's an allure to Colin no doubt.
I'm sure the guys are all still friends (goes back to my points above about people really knowing Colin versus internet avatars thousands of miles from him), but they are trying to play the PR game right now, as with KF being funded by fans, and some of the fans shouting about stopping their funding, it hurts the bottom line. Just like when people say they will be boycotting Disney, and Disney think shit, we better sack PDP now (the hypocrisy there being years of crude jokes and swearing already, and Disney not caring). Will it hurt more if Colin leaves though and takes some of the fanbase with him? That's the 24 hour news cycle question. In a week, will this have blown over? Will some other person on Twitter make a shit remark everyone moves onto? Maybe this tweet will die off, but for sure KF fans constantly complain about Colins injections of random politics into their videos.
I think it certainly lends him a great deal of credence. I think there are probably a lot of women who wouldn't have a problem with the tweet, and many still who would find it funny. Does he get anything then? How about the reverse- the fact that a poster on GAF found it offensive doesn't automatically make him wrong?
Do you have some pathological need to paint everyone with such a wide brush? Isn't that precisely what you criticize all the "sexists" for doing?
I'm just making a derogatory statement in regards to your opinion. Surely this is how it works when the shoe is on the other foot?
I'm sure those other people enjoyed being called humorless sacks of shit when they pointed out that his "joke" was shitty. Moreover it wasn't even a joke, it was trolling pure and simple
Ninja Scooter
Member
That is literally the level of discourse laid out by Colin and his cultish Twitter followers. His immediate response to anyone who took issue with his joke was to call them sacks of shit. So who is really lowering the level of discourse here?
This thread has basically boiled down to
People who don't think you should use your platform for sexist jokes
V
People who don't think sexist jokes should be criticised
I'm in the former since I get how ideas and unconscious bias and shit like that work but I don't expect I'll persuade anyone over the Internet if I haven't already
People who don't think you should use your platform for sexist jokes
V
People who don't think sexist jokes should be criticised
I'm in the former since I get how ideas and unconscious bias and shit like that work but I don't expect I'll persuade anyone over the Internet if I haven't already
Yes to add to that Justin is incredibly inclusive, compassionate, and openly liberal, as all the McElroys make very clear in their podcasts, so comparing his words and actions to Colin's lack of empathy is apples and oranges.
Also to those asking what else he does besides Polygon he also has a comedy tv show now with his brothers on Seeso.
TWrecks310
Banned
You know what I mean...
Obama was trying to inspire people with that speech. Colin (and others) meant it to get people to stop freaking out even when it was justifiable.
Glass Shark
Banned
Why would a comedy streaming channel allow a man who ruined comedy by apologizing for something to have a show? I don't get it.
I think there's a difference between "humorless sack of shit" and "bereft of morality," but I do see the point you're trying to make. I just think that there are entire bodies of celebrated work by well-loved comedians that the same people who are being called humorless sacks of shit would find offensive, thus lending credibility to the insult. The people who laughed at or didn't mind the joke, however, aren't cheating on their taxes, beating their kids, stealing, or do anything else immoral on any measurable scale, so saying they are bereft of morality is just kinda dumb.
The first group are demonstrably humorless sacks of shit, because I can go find an entire set by Dave Chappelle, George Carlin, or Margaret Cho that they would find offensive or upsetting. The second group aren't demonstrably bereft of morality, because they aren't do anything measurably immoral or morally bankrupt, except maybe laughing at a joke you don't like.
See the difference?
Glass Shark
Banned
There are plenty of comedians who don't find the need to be edgy or offensive in order to be funny. This argument doesn't hold water at all.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Its not even so much the joke. It was a lame, 90s sitcom dad joke. It was the obvious intent behind the joke (Colin saying something blatantly inflammatory so he can whine and play the victim/martyr card and rile up the shitty portion of the KF fanbase) and the way he and his fans on twitter react to anybody who dare criticize the comedy stylings if Colin Moriarty.
No. I don't give a shit about the difference. I'm not backing down from my position because I'm an asshole edgelord that is constantly using false equivalence to push people's buttons. Oh yeah, I'm also preaching inclusiveness and tolerance at the same time.
Some Nobody
Junior Member
I laughed at the tweet. But only because when I saw it days ago I knew it'd end just like this, for him.
Its frustrating to see, too. Not because I'm so moral, but because after six years of this you should know how the game is played. Seemingly innocuous stuff like that tweet is going to garner a response like that every. time. And it used to be that you were either on your own, or you just had your friends/fans supporting you and that was it.
But those days are over, and there's a whole different, very ugly, very vocal side to the Internet that will see anything like this where there's outrage (it's been days, if you weren't outraged you wouldn't care anymore) as a clarion call to unleash their banal hatred on everyone who dared get in the way of your "free speech". Of course, they don't REALLY care about free speech--they just care about having another chance to threaten and shout down the people who they disagree with--who just happen not to look like them.
And so now you've got THOSE people on your side, who make you look even worse. Even if you don't agree with their extremist ideals at all, now everyone can point to who's backing you and drag you even further down. Now there's no winning--either you walk back your statements and everyone STILL sees you as an asshole, or you go full hoss and say fuck it and embrace the fact that "at least someone likes you".
This is the inescapable truth of the internet. Of the alt-right's hatred and stupidity. Of the left's surprisingly insensitive "call out culture", which will always create more enemies than it ever will allies just by its antagonistic nature, then claim that that's okay because it means "you were never my ally in the first place".
But all of that is pretty roundabout. What I really want to focus on is this: the zeitgeist of the internet changed a very long time ago. And as someone who spends as much time on it as Colin, I expect you to know the rules of what you can and can't do without repercussions. If you call 911 as a joke, don't act surprised when the police show up on your doorstep and ask wtf is wrong with you.
I AM sorry that Greg, Tim, Nick, Kevin, and Noelle got dragged into this though. Especially Noelle--ffs, she just started working there. >_<
Its frustrating to see, too. Not because I'm so moral, but because after six years of this you should know how the game is played. Seemingly innocuous stuff like that tweet is going to garner a response like that every. time. And it used to be that you were either on your own, or you just had your friends/fans supporting you and that was it.
But those days are over, and there's a whole different, very ugly, very vocal side to the Internet that will see anything like this where there's outrage (it's been days, if you weren't outraged you wouldn't care anymore) as a clarion call to unleash their banal hatred on everyone who dared get in the way of your "free speech". Of course, they don't REALLY care about free speech--they just care about having another chance to threaten and shout down the people who they disagree with--who just happen not to look like them.
And so now you've got THOSE people on your side, who make you look even worse. Even if you don't agree with their extremist ideals at all, now everyone can point to who's backing you and drag you even further down. Now there's no winning--either you walk back your statements and everyone STILL sees you as an asshole, or you go full hoss and say fuck it and embrace the fact that "at least someone likes you".
This is the inescapable truth of the internet. Of the alt-right's hatred and stupidity. Of the left's surprisingly insensitive "call out culture", which will always create more enemies than it ever will allies just by its antagonistic nature, then claim that that's okay because it means "you were never my ally in the first place".
But all of that is pretty roundabout. What I really want to focus on is this: the zeitgeist of the internet changed a very long time ago. And as someone who spends as much time on it as Colin, I expect you to know the rules of what you can and can't do without repercussions. If you call 911 as a joke, don't act surprised when the police show up on your doorstep and ask wtf is wrong with you.
I AM sorry that Greg, Tim, Nick, Kevin, and Noelle got dragged into this though. Especially Noelle--ffs, she just started working there. >_<
It's also twitter, and you can't have any reasonable discourse there. I strongly encourage you to watch his Rubin interview where he talks about desperately WANTING to engage with his critics in reasonable discussion, but none of them being willing to sit down and do so. And hell, if anyone in here is so convinced of their crusade, I also encourage you to contact Colin and set up some sort of discussion or debate with him. I'd absolutely love to see some actual civil discussion between Colin and someone in this thread. I don't mean in this in some snide shitty way, either. The dude wants to talk to you. So fucking take him up on it.
Yeah, well he can fuck off, if he doesn't practice what he preaches even on twitter why should reasonable people give him the time of day.
Additionally, given wide swath of disingenuous bullshit he throws out on a regular basis, there is little incentive for anybody to bother assuming any sincerity on his part.
Right, I didn't say there weren't. I'm not sure what you're arguing against here. There are also plenty of comedians who have built celebrated careers out of being offensive. Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Bill Hicks, Sam Kinison, and Dave Chappelle. These are some of the most well respected and beloved men of the craft, and every one of them wrote mountains of racist and sexist jokes.
Yeah, there are also FANTASTIC comedians who never touch offensive material. At no point did I suggest that wasn't the case.
I merely suggested that the accused humorless sacks of shit would find the first group of beloved, influential comedians offensive. Thus, they are in fact humorless sacks of shit. Or are you upset because I suggested that finding the inoffensive comedian funny and the offensive comedian unfunny makes you, by definition, NOT a humorless sack of shit, because your enjoyment of inoffensive group proves that you do, in fact, have humor? Because the insult isn't mean to imply that you have no sense of humor. Just that you have a stunted one. And picking and choosing which group you'll laugh at proves this.
Ninja Scooter
Member
His kind of fans, who jump down anybody's throat the moment someone dare disagree with their idol and throwing out accusations of SJW/outrage culture/cuck are exactly the reason you can't have any reasonable discourse on twitter. Like, prominent people in the very same industry as Colin have expressed that this legion of shitlords are the very reason they don't @ him in Twitter when they might take umbrage with something he posts. If Colin is so concerned with reasonable discussion and raising the level of discourse maybe he should have a chat with the people that shit up platforms like twitter in his name first.
Hydranockz
Member
Lol, that's 2/2 in "Wrong assumptions about Colin I have made today."
He was the one choosing not to go to PAX. He was the one intentionally stirring shit and then literally calling people sacks of shit.
But do go on about how Colin will absolutely give the time of day to reasoned discourse.