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NASA: Earth warming at unprecedented pace, unlikely to stay in Paris T° range
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anarchy_panty
Member
it's incredibly depressing how impossible it is to get the broader culture to even give a tenth of a shit about this. this is going to kill us all and a significant people to refuse to believe it's even happening. it honestly makes me want to just go curl up in a corner somewhere and cry.
very torn right now between continuing to try and further my career, or just saying fuck it and going to all the places i've always wanted to see before it's all fucked.
very torn right now between continuing to try and further my career, or just saying fuck it and going to all the places i've always wanted to see before it's all fucked.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Then we're not avoiding it. Unless you want massive decreases in quality of life this isn't happening.
We should be more concerned with mitigation, trying to stay below 2C and geo-engineering
Its people wanting what these companies provide.
Its people wanting to drive places, travel, eat meat, have AC, etc. and not being able to afford it without cheap fossil fuels
PsychoSoldier
Banned
No, I often walk to work,buy local products and make other changes where I'm able to. I'm all for people doing what they can to reduce their energy consumption.
I'm just saying that there's no need to worry yourself too much because for changes to be truly effective then they need to be broad-reaching and systemic, which depends on moneyed interests actually working for change and not against it.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Everybody saying its too late. Too late for what?
To late for 1.5c or 2c? Ok...
Should we just let it get to 3-4c? Or maybe try to learn to live with the mistake or correct it. I mean we've come a long way in the past 20 years with making this an existential crisis, the apathy and resignation that even if we miss our targets we're screwed is stupid and I think arguably more harmful than denial
To late for 1.5c or 2c? Ok...
Should we just let it get to 3-4c? Or maybe try to learn to live with the mistake or correct it. I mean we've come a long way in the past 20 years with making this an existential crisis, the apathy and resignation that even if we miss our targets we're screwed is stupid and I think arguably more harmful than denial
I don't really see viable alternatives to these things. I try and eat meat with every meal. I generally don't feel satisfied without meat at a meal. The infrastructure isn't there for electric cars around me. I have pets, so I keep my house at 76 when I'm not there.
ignoring the fact that the warming in the late 20th century was virtually indistinguishable from the warming in the early 20th century....
the reason for not getting rid of coal and oil and gas
price.
no non fossil fuel generated energy production unit (besides water turbine style in rivers*)
can come CLOSE to the price of oil gas and coal and maintain its reliability of service 24/7
excluding water power- since well the environmentalists would go nuts building more dams to generate more power....
nuclear power is what we should be building....
i am ALL for ditching all coal plants and going nuclear, but for one reason it is not happening
NIMBY and scare tactics by environmentalists.
without lawsuits driving the price up, a nuclear plant can replace a coal plant pretty easily at about the same Kw pricing, however most environmentalist groups are anti nuclear, thus the price per Kw is significantly higher due to RED TAPE....
even though if you hold a fricking geiger counter up near the stack of a nuclear plant. and a coal plant the coal exhaust is slightly more radioactive....
using current technology, the US and the could replace all coal plants with nuclear and reduce emissions significantly not that it would matter one iota...
btw the #1 and #2 producers- by a large margin- are india and china. the US currently emits less plant food (carbon dioxide is bloody plant food, without it, all plant and animal life would DIE) than we did 20 years ago and it is still dropping... US emissions has dropped 10% in 10 years...
the reason for not getting rid of coal and oil and gas
price.
no non fossil fuel generated energy production unit (besides water turbine style in rivers*)
can come CLOSE to the price of oil gas and coal and maintain its reliability of service 24/7
excluding water power- since well the environmentalists would go nuts building more dams to generate more power....
nuclear power is what we should be building....
i am ALL for ditching all coal plants and going nuclear, but for one reason it is not happening
NIMBY and scare tactics by environmentalists.
without lawsuits driving the price up, a nuclear plant can replace a coal plant pretty easily at about the same Kw pricing, however most environmentalist groups are anti nuclear, thus the price per Kw is significantly higher due to RED TAPE....
even though if you hold a fricking geiger counter up near the stack of a nuclear plant. and a coal plant the coal exhaust is slightly more radioactive....
using current technology, the US and the could replace all coal plants with nuclear and reduce emissions significantly not that it would matter one iota...
btw the #1 and #2 producers- by a large margin- are india and china. the US currently emits less plant food (carbon dioxide is bloody plant food, without it, all plant and animal life would DIE) than we did 20 years ago and it is still dropping... US emissions has dropped 10% in 10 years...
AstroNut325
Member
Yup it's this general apathy that drives the "representatives" to show nothing but apathy. The people with money don't care because the general population don't care. We can at least become proactive about curbing it at 2C.
But nope... I need my meat, gas powered cars and air conditioning. Can't make any lifestyle changes.
Edit:
Exhibit A:
You've been living off a meat intensive diet all your life. It will take time to adjust. And you can try public transit if it's available (I have a feeling you're in some rural area and counter with "No public transit here"). And if you need to run AC all day, why not get solar? Then you're not burning fossil fuels to power your AC?
LegendofJoe
Member
The Millenial generation will still be here though and we'll control the levers of power when things start to get really bad. It's up to us to make it through this and somehow find a way to lay the groundwork for a better world. Our parents are too stuck in their ways to make the necessary changes, whether the world thrives or declines is entirely on our shoulders. And I say bring it on. Let's leave behind a legacy our decedents
will be proud to study and reflect upon one day.
A LOT of people, and life on this planet, will probably die in the process of figuring it out, though.
Needless death, because warnings couldn't be listened to in the face of the bottom line.
The aversion and resistance against collectivism and government control in right-winged libertarian countries like the USA (who also pollute the most) means that this won't ever get fixed on a global scale.
Just the word 'government' make some Americans and libertarians lose their shit. This is why fighting against climate change won't be possible through non-authoritarian ways.
Just the word 'government' make some Americans and libertarians lose their shit. This is why fighting against climate change won't be possible through non-authoritarian ways.
G-Bus
Banned
I find it funny that people think we have enough time to fix this.
Government takes far too long to take action, never mind something on this scale.
It's been talked about for decades. Nothing will get done. Just pussy foot around the issue, make some minor changes and blow it up in the media to make the public think it's being handled.
It's fucked. Everything's fucked. We're all fucked. Fuck.
Government takes far too long to take action, never mind something on this scale.
It's been talked about for decades. Nothing will get done. Just pussy foot around the issue, make some minor changes and blow it up in the media to make the public think it's being handled.
It's fucked. Everything's fucked. We're all fucked. Fuck.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Millenials won't likely face any super serious effects of climate change, they might see some extinctions or more serious weather effects but not the real bad stuff. Its not gonna really hit us until we're in our 90s
Humans aren't going anywhere. Climate Change will not end us. Its a silly thought,
Well you can mandate it but good luck with that. Even the U.S., who should absolutely be a leader on this for countless reasons, has been hobbled and backwards for decades thanks to our long history of Republican morons (voters and their representatives alike).
NYCmetsfan
Banned
The US has made substantial progress. I have no idea what world you guys live in that the US hasn't made substantial progress.
Yeap. PR here.
Gunstarheroes
Member
I do think this thread has two extremes, and given the year we've had, being pessimistic is certainly warranted. To that same end, just assuming we've been resilient with so many other things meaning will make it through this is not a great outlook either.
Somewhere in the middle is the right reaction, this is scary, and trying to mitigate damage, or at least prepare to figure out a way to deal with what we wrought in some manner is important. However, it won't kill everyone and everything (though it will certainly change a lot), but we also won't come out with barely a knick on us. Its gonna be somewhere in that middle area, between the two extremes, if history is anything to look at.
Somewhere in the middle is the right reaction, this is scary, and trying to mitigate damage, or at least prepare to figure out a way to deal with what we wrought in some manner is important. However, it won't kill everyone and everything (though it will certainly change a lot), but we also won't come out with barely a knick on us. Its gonna be somewhere in that middle area, between the two extremes, if history is anything to look at.
Yup. I'll support pretty much every environmental control measure that's introduced, but I'm not going to waste what time I have fighting a losing battle against the selfish nature of humanity.
Just enjoy what time you have and don't have kids.
PdotMichael
Banned
USA has twice the CO2 output per capita than Europe and other important stuff like fresh water use.
It's a joke of a country.
AstroNut325
Member
Um... the we've made some improvements, but we have a several light years to go:
https://www.google.com/publicdata/e...SA:CHN:GBR&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false
ScatheZombie
Member
Don't know where you heard that, but most papers on climate change say shit will start getting bad in 20 years, start getting really bad in 30 years, and we're fucked in 50.
I don't know how old you think Millennials are, but that's 40s, 50s, and 70s for most of us. Not 90+.
Frankfurter
Member
They do? Investments in renewables are rising all the time and are by now larger than investments in coal, oil etc. It's just that we would need much more, also on other fronts (say energy efficiency where a couple of countries just fail).
PdotMichael
Banned
Um... the we've made some improvements, but we have a several light years to go:
https://www.google.com/publicdata/e...SA:CHN:GBR&ifdim=region&hl=en&dl=en&ind=false
This isn't even progress but the result of outsourcing industry to Asia. The saved CO2 output just gets produced somewhere else
USA has also a gigantic trade deficit so the real CO2 output of the USA is insane.
Nealand Liquor
Member
I don't know why scientists don't just paint the earth white and reflect all the heat.
AstroNut325
Member
We are living in a disaster movie.
I just want a Neo, Scorpio, PS5, XB2, NX before it all goes to shit. I should finally play 3D World before its too late.
Visit some strip clubs.
Oh yea...spend more time with my kids too.
All this reminds of an old Twilight Zone episode where the Earth was coming closer to the sun and everyone was going to die.
Turns out the person was having a dream and the Earthwas getting further away from the sun, and everyone was going to freeze to death.
I just want a Neo, Scorpio, PS5, XB2, NX before it all goes to shit. I should finally play 3D World before its too late.
Visit some strip clubs.
Oh yea...spend more time with my kids too.
All this reminds of an old Twilight Zone episode where the Earth was coming closer to the sun and everyone was going to die.
Turns out the person was having a dream and the Earthwas getting further away from the sun, and everyone was going to freeze to death.
More_Badass
Member
My dad is convinced that the idea of climate change is a power-grabbing scheme orchestrated by the "tyrannical" EPA/Obama administration and it's fucking infuriating to the point I don't even try to discuss the topic with him anymore because the discussion always goes one way
I want to see the receipts
I wonder why.
Let's look at the US:
- Power coal lobby.
- A couple of idiotic human error catastrophes have forever tainted nuclear power.
- Wind turbines "kill all the birds", and "vibrations" from them "destroy physical and mental health". In other words, pseudo-science from vested interests.
- Solar power? More pseudo-science from vested interests.
As long as the non-renewable energy industry keeps pumping money into the pockets of elected officials, and paying for "research" painting renewables as bad, you're gonna get nowhere.
There are actually proposals to do this.
Well, not paint the earth, but do other things that would reflect light, such as creating additional sea foam.
Unfortunately, global warming is hurting the earth's ability to reflect light by melting snow and ice though. Just one of the many positive feedback loops that have to be considered.
XOMTOR
Member
Taxes aren't much use when there are few alternatives for people to switch to. I live in Canada and solar panels are bloody expensive and the Nissan Leaf starts at $32,000 (plus, I likely need to be on a waiting list). Governments need to pressure companies into building more EV products, make them more accessible or offer incentive programs. Taxing our way to a better environment is just going to piss people off.
SolidusDave
Member
Inevitable then, gotcha.
I hope as a research scientist I'll get picked for the ark while you suckers drown/starve/superman's dad/crushed by giant hail.
I had no idea the meat industry caused so much emissions. Why is that so? I always thought cars, oil or something else would be doing more damage.
AstroNut325
Member
its not even about mandating it at this point. this is a cultural shift that needs to happen, but sadly wont. big cars, eating meat, burning gasoline, and consumer goods are all tied into to culture. these things exist in such massive industries because people want them. anyone on this forum who drives an suv, truck, minivan, or anything can attest to that. anyone on this board who buys into the fetishization of meat culture (the obsessions with bacon, etc.), and anyone on this board who dabbles in mass produced electronics (all of us considering its a video game forum) are a product of this culture.
our culture values these things, and not doing so requires a cultural shift. people are more concerned with more, bigger, faster, better to be bothered with saving the environment. it goes against everything a lot of people are trying to achieve.
ScatheZombie
Member
It's actually not quite as bad as people make it out to be. It looks worse because livestock is generally lumped together with deforestation and land use which make up like +80% of their percentage of the pie.
Livestock is about on par with the cement industry - which means it's not actually that giant portion of the pie in the graph above, it's about the same size as the "buildings" slice. Still bad, but not holy-shit bad.
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
so we are still on track for 2035 apocalypses or it could be even earlier?
PdotMichael
Banned
Didn't even think about that.
Crap...
That's the reason why such CO2 produced by X graphics aren't that useful.
Many American (it also applies to Europe and other places) on GAF talking about getting new smartphones or new GPUs every year or two years although their old ones still good enough enough.
It's insane that we are buying new things although what we own is more than good enough but because made in the USA smartphones don't exist countries like China and Co getting blamed for the additional CO2 output.
It should be about consumed and less abut produced.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Wind and Solar are hitting record lows every year as their installation rates increase. We already have places in the US where wind is cheaper than gas, and solar is cheaper than gas.
Five years time you won't have to be in a unique area to have renewable energy be cheeper than conventional energy. The world is already installing more renewable energy than carbon based, the transition is already happening.
Anyone who says "omg it's tooo laaaaate
" just needs to stop posting. Seriously. I take this subject as one of the top two in terms of global issues and how I vote in elections, I tend to try and stay up to date as much as possible. Going into every single thread about this subject isn't making me mad because of whatever news I'm reading, it makes me mad because I see a bunch of apathy from people who clearly just want to react all sad and gloomy because it's easy. Lets read the thread title. Yes, Earth is warming at unprecedented rates, yea no shit, we've been talking about that for the last two decades. Staying within Paris target range of 1.5C is near impossible with current emission rates. Yea, no shit, that was openly talked about during the negotiations. Without more substantive emission cuts, we will fail to stay under 2C. Yes, once again, these were center point of the Paris talks last year that Paris alone will not solve our issues. These are not "dirty little secrets" that the man doesn't want you to know.
We fucking know this, anyone who spends 15 minutes reading up on the most historic global climate deal will understand what Paris was about. It's not the "OMG WE FIXED EVERYTHING WOOO!" deal, it never was. It was the framework to do something that we should have started 20 years ago, a framework to continuously come back to the table and figure out what each country can do to continue their emissions decrease.
Ten years from now the targets we put out will be obsolete because battery tech + renewable + EV's will be so far ahead that any projection from major energy institutions will be horribly out of date and simply wrong (you know, like how they have been for the last 15 years in terms of cost of Wind/Solar and total amount installed). We take these emission trends and bake in China hitting peak coal in 2020, with 2030 being their peek emission (at best), yet we now know they hit peak coal in 2013 and are having historic cutbacks on coal production and usage. We bake in these trends with horribly conservative estimates on renewable energy, even when we have learning rates putting coal into the danger zone of being too expensive than solar in a decade.
Also I swear to god if I see one more person post that study on how agriculture is somehow 50% of global emissions I'm going to break a fucking gasket.
Yes, this is scary stuff when looking at the numerous consequences of our failure to act, but just going around spreading apathy is literally one of the worst things you could do.
also agriculture accounts for around 15-20% of global emissions iirc, so anyone telling you it's somehow magically half of global emissions are quoting a single study that has been peer reviewed to death and heavily criticized in their methodology
That thread, and article was complete bullshit. I couldn't find a single source they quoted backing up their claim. The only thing I saw was a reference to IEA having an emissions scenario of having 3.5C baked in by 2080 or something. No current emission scenerio has the world hitting 3.5C in 20 years.
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