• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Miyamoto: In mainline Zeldas, Link will always be the hero, will consider S spin-offs

Like I said Miyamoto is just a weird dude. Frankly he seems a bit backwards to me. Nintendo as a whole would be better off his they stop letting him make a lot of these decisions.
Yeah. Pretty much.

He created some of the most popular franchises in the world and the most recognizable character ever this side of Mickey Mouse. He led a videogame revolution all through the 80s and 90s. His influence is undeniable.

But I also find that his paradigm shifts and envelope pushing stopped a long time ago. He didn't keep up with modern times and got stuck in the past. Nintendo, unlike him, does show signs of trying to keep up. I don't see the same from Miyamoto.

Just look at the most successful new franchise and the most successful relaunch of a franchise from them in the last decade: Splatoon and Fire Emblem. Neither had Miyamoto anything to to with them.

How was Star Fox Zero doing, anyway?
 
Id say the fans yelling and whinibg(yes, this is whining) are far worse.

200% agree.

This is a company that has Bayonetta, Samus, Zelda, Lucina, Rosalina etc. Has done for females in video games than any other major videogame company and yet, on one franchise, where they would prefer to keep Link a male (a creative decision they absolutely have the right to make) and all the sudden they're the worse company ever.

Get ahold of yourself, Justice Warriors.
 
Yeah. Pretty much.

He created some of the most popular franchises in the world and the most recognizable character ever this side of Mickey Mouse. He led a videogame revolution all through the 80s and 90s. His influence is undeniable.

But I also find that his paradigm shifts and envelope pushing stopped a long time ago. He didn't keep up with mothers times and got stuck in the past. Nintendo, unlike him, does show signs of trying to keep up. I don't see the same from Miyamoto.

Just look at the most successful new franchise and the most successful relaunch of a franchise from them in the last decade: Splatoon and Fire Emblem. Neither had Miyamoto anything to to with them.

How was Star Fox Zero doing, anyway?
Miyamoto pushed the Splatoon team to make better character designs and that was a big part of that game's success.
Star Fox Zero is the best in the franchise since 64. The controls kept it from selling well, but they're also likely the only reason it was greenlight.
Saying Miyamoto is a hack or whatever because he's not pulling a FemThor seems unwarranted.
Team Ninja co-developed Hyrule Warriors...
Exactly
:p
 
So let me get his straight:

Link can be a machinist, an orphan with a tree for a father, brown haired, pink haired, blonde haired, right handed, left handed, live in a forest with kids, live alone with a nameless uncle, live in the sky, shipwreck in a dream island, adventure in bizarre town with a moon with a face striking down, turn into a fish/Gordon/shrub, turn into a motherfucking god, be featured in games where Zelda isn't even featured BUT having an option of Link being female is where we're drawing the line, huh?
Absolutely. Because one thing is perpetually preserved -- consistently -- across all of these scenarios: in the end, Link grows up to become a boy who (against all odds) ultimately ends up saving the princess. Boy saves girl. It's one of a handful of absolutely unchanging properties of the Zelda formula, right alongside Good versus Evil.

I feel as though I've spelled it out fairly plainly in this thread already in my handful of posts... and I'm not sure how I could possibly do so with any more eloquence or rationality. There are plenty of conventions which will evolve alongside demographics in the ever-changing gaming industry, but it is unfair and terribly presumptuous to expect something as successful and critical to a company's wellbeing as The Legend of Zelda franchise to accommodate new social norms and demographic trends. The gender of Link himself is just not something which is likely to ever change within the Zelda franchise, and those who cannot accept that are probably going to remain perpetually resentful.
 
My question is, why would they use any of this convoluted reasoning beyond simply trying to appease a group of fans? All of that would just scream, "we're doing this to look progressive in PR," and I don't like that personally. If they go in with that mentality, they're forced to do things they aren't really passionate about just to inclusive, and likely more due to suits than what they want. If they decide that they want to make a game where you play as Zelda, cool. I'm not against it.
I do hope that one day it happens, but I want it to be because it's what the people making the game want to do, not because some fans want more inclusion. Just listening to vocal fans won't always make a game better, especially in a case like this where it'll just end up with people wanting more and more inclusion until like a year of development is spent making sure that everyone can feel included, all to appease people who aren't going to base their purchase decision on this anyway. Just... Let them do what they want.
I have seen this 'they would be pandering' / 'they would be doing it for the karma points'-type reasoning before and I do not entirely understand where it comes from. Where is the line drawn between cynical pandering and listening to fans? Is them moving away from motion controls after Skyward Sword pandering to the group of people that disliked it? Is them switching the art style with Twilight Princess pandering to the people most vocal in their dislike of Wind Waker? Is the difference between pandering and listening to fans simply based on how many fans want something or how vocal they are? Why would the addition of a female player character specifically be pandering and not simply 'listening to fans'? The idea of 'pandering' or 'forcing a developer to do something' is so blurry that I do not think it is something that can be used to argue against any one view in this discussion. Aside from that, I also do not see discussing something like this in a vocal way as 'forcing' a developer to do anything. Vocal discussion is there to raise awareness. It is completely up to the developer on how to deal with that. This is still being discussed so vocally because Nintendo / Aonuma have given less than satisfactory answers for most, and I do not think it is a bad thing that they are being called out on that.
The mentality that you're either actively fighting for this or wrong is what's bothering me here. I'm not allowed to have an opinion other than "Nintendo must make Zelda or a female Link playable in the next game," or else I'm wrong an a bad person. The people in charge of the franchise aren't allowed to disagree or else they're sexist. It's stupid. You guys are telling people what they must think, and that's why I've been getting more and more annoyed/hostile. I truly hate that more than anything.
I'm not sure why you feel that others are 'telling you what to do'. Part of every discussion is people presenting a different point of view than yours. I do not feel like that is 'telling you what to think'. Perhaps some people are getting more heated in this discussion than normal ( which I honestly find not that surprising at this point ), but I still don't feel like people are saying that you aren't allowed to disagree. At the very least I feel like I should point out that I mentioned multiple times in my reply to you that I have no real issue with people wanting Link to be a boy. If you want Link to be a boy, that's cool. It's just that it is very frustrating that some of those people feel the need to justify Aonuma's comments or feel the need to be dismissive of the entire 'female Link / playable female'-discussion through disingenuous arguments. If you think Link should be a boy and don't agree that there should be a female option, that's fine. It would be appreciated if you could explain why, but you don't need to. You shouldn't have to enter the discussion if you don't want to. Just don't be dismissive of the entire discussion.

Aside from this reply, some of your points have also come up in some form in the Only 3% of games shown at E3 keynotes featured exclusively female protagonists thread ( general note: while there is some overlap with this discussion, it is still very much a seperate discussion on a related but different issue ). There are a few detailed posts in there on those points; specifically 'you're forcing developers' / 'people will want more and more if they listen' / 'it's pandering if they do X' and why people perceive comments such as that to be not particularly helpful contributions to the discussion. It would be greatly appreciated if you could try giving it a read to try and understand why people call stuff like that out. If you still disagree, then post why and keep the discussion going. I don't think it should end at "I think X and you are wrong!" and that goes for both sides.
 
I have seen this 'they would be pandering' / 'they would be doing it for the karma points'-type reasoning before and I do not entirely understand where it comes from. Where is the line drawn between cynical pandering and listening to fans? Is them moving away from motion controls after Skyward Sword pandering to the group of people that disliked it? Is them switching the art style with Twilight Princess pandering to the people most vocal in their dislike of Wind Waker? Is the difference between pandering and listening to fans simply based on how many fans want something or how vocal they are? Why would the addition of a female player character specifically be pandering and not simply 'listening to fans'? The idea of 'pandering' or 'forcing a developer to do something' is so blurry that I do not think it is something that can be used to argue against any one view in this discussion. Aside from that, I also do not see discussing something like this in a vocal way as 'forcing' a developer to do anything. Vocal discussion is there to raise awareness. It is completely up to the developer on how to deal with that. This is still being discussed so vocally because Nintendo / Aonuma have given less than satisfactory answers for most, and I do not think it is a bad thing that they are being called out on that.I'm not sure why you feel that others are 'telling you what to do'. Part of every discussion is people presenting a different point of view than yours. I do not feel like that is 'telling you what to think'. Perhaps some people are getting more heated in this discussion than normal ( which I honestly find not that surprising at this point ), but I still don't feel like people are saying that you aren't allowed to disagree. At the very least I feel like I should point out that I mentioned multiple times in my reply to you that I have no real issue with people wanting Link to be a boy. If you want Link to be a boy, that's cool. It's just that it is very frustrating that some of those people feel the need to justify Aonuma's comments or feel the need to be dismissive of the entire 'female Link / playable female'-discussion through disingenuous arguments. If you think Link should be a boy and don't agree that there should be a female option, that's fine. It would be appreciated if you could explain why, but you don't need to. You shouldn't have to enter the discussion if you don't want to. Just don't be dismissive of the entire discussion.

Aside from this reply, some of your points have also come up in some form in the Only 3% of games shown at E3 keynotes featured exclusively female protagonists thread ( general note: while there is some overlap with this discussion, it is still very much a seperate discussion on a related but different issue ). There are a few detailed posts in there on those points; specifically 'you're forcing developers' / 'people will want more and more if they listen' / 'it's pandering if they do X' and why people perceive comments such as that to be not particularly helpful contributions to the discussion. It would be greatly appreciated if you could try giving it a read to try and understand why people call stuff like that out. If you still disagree, then post why and keep the discussion going. I don't think it should end at "I think X and you are wrong!" and that goes for both sides.

You're not even getting what I'm saying. I'm not specifically talking about pandering. You're right that there's a thin line; I'd even say that there's no line at all. My point is that this issue shouldn't be viewed any differently than any other fan request. I know that sounds insensitive, and I'd love for it to be different, but the reason I feel this way is that inclusion is a tricky matter to deal with and you can't please every single person on the planet no matter what you do. I don't see why women need to take priority in this department over minorities, transgender people, or homosexuals. So, why are people not clamoring for an Indian trans-female lesbian Link? Well, they probably would eventually. Also, since only exclusively female protagonists are considered in that thread you posted, a female Link wouldn't have done anything for that anyway. Also, I love how you're accusing me of throwing out arguments, then telling me to leave the discussion if I don't agree with certain points. Nothing hypocritical there at all.
 
Of all the changes we've seen in mainstream Zelda games (read: not many -- Triforce Heroes, Hyrule Warriors, etc. are not included here), a gender change is the least appropriate fit for the tale. The foundational aspects of the franchise have always been good versus evil, boy saves girl. As inclusionary as society's current mentality happens to be, there is nothing wrong with this approach to a franchise -- and it still, whether or not people wish to accept it, appeals to the largest constituency among the options available.

Neither of these two properties, if altered, would likely be widely embraced by the Zelda fanbase at large. Accepted? Quite possibly, but the goal of a game publisher spending untold millions on a major installment of a hallmark franchise is not mere acceptance.

I hate to frame it as such, but this constitutes little more than a pipe dream by this subset of gamers who so fervently wish this change to be embraced. Let's move on. The market is expanding, and companies are slowly moving to exploit this to their advantage -- which is their purpose in the game. But the risk involved and the likelihood of alienating, whether passively or actively, directly or indirectly, fans of the existing template of Zelda is too high to justify versus the alternative of developing or altering another, less financially risky franchise.

There's nothing wrong with "boy saves girl." But, to be so bold as to make a definitive statement: There is absolutely something wrong with "it can't be girl saves boy." 100 percent wrong. No one believes "boy saves girl," is bad, and that trope isn't seeing danger of extinction, "boy saves girl," stories aren't being replaced by "girl saves boy/world/etc." stories, and nothing is being stolen from or corrupted for those who enjoy those stories.

Nothing is gained by rejecting the possibility, which is what's being done here. It's not just a rejection of a reincarnation of Link being a girl — Miyamoto has said Zelda won't be the lead in the series either. Nintendo as a whole has other series with diverse casts and openness toward inclusion, but that doesn't meet an arbitrary quota — which, if met, would absolve Nintendo of any criticism overall — because that quota doesn't exist.

In regard to this discussion, the preciousness that kind of story holds for some people fascinates me, because in its two forms — one that seeks to defend creative vision on a principle level, and the other that simply holds that convention dear.

For the former, there exists an assumption that what makes the story of "boy saves girl/world/etc.," special or worthy of holding dear is the gender of the lead, even if those stories do not deal with gender-specific elements, even though "coming of age," tales work for any gender, and even though the Zelda series has, at most, only merely made mention of (fictional) cultural mores involving gender, none of which are constant throughout the series, or must meet certain criteria from title to title. Even if there were something of value lost by having the story feature a boy Link rather than a girl Link or Zelda — and there simply wouldn't be anything lost that would be too precious to lose for a single entry in this 15+ entry series — it would not negate what is gained: more options for players, more inclusiveness and diversity (of which there is inherent value — can't recall if you and I have discussed that in particular before, but we can if needed), reinforcing the notion that girls can save the boy, the world, and can go on these adventures.

For those who cherish stories of boys going on adventures/saving the world, who find that those stories speak to them in a way a story about a girl couldn't (either through being able to better relate to certain trials and experiences one gender experiences more than others), and who reject the possibility of having a girl star in a mainline Zelda game: they are advocating for other people to miss out on what they already have gotten time and time again. A mix of "screw you, I got mine," and "they're taking out jobs Zelda stories." It's just irrational fear of losing something that they won't lose, and fear of potentially having to assume the role of someone different, despite there already being different characters assumed throughout the Zelda series, let alone the gaming landscape as a whole. It's miserly.

You acknowledge the "expanding market to be exploited," and if you are already looking at the situation in its most corporate, sterile, unproductive way, then you know there'll always be people to receive a new Zelda title poorly, no matter how redundant, safe and reiterative it is overall. Fans of Zelda are going to buy Zelda titles, particularly the mainline ones, and particularly along with well-selling hardware.

To the rest of the "corporate line" stuff: saying that girls cannot be the stars of these adventures — indirectly, passively, subtly or otherwise — is already alienating people. Those responses given from Aonuma and Miyamoto are alienating people. Saying that, theoretically, people would be alienated by a girl in their Zelda game is to speak and think so little of those fans' capacity of relating and empathizing with a character who may not look or resemble them (and trust me, plenty of those fans already do just that). It's a shameful assumption to make for myriad reasons, and if it serves as an excuse to protect a framing of the situation that is admittedly theoretical, and that you say you hate, then it's not worthwhile at best, actively harmful at worst.

What's the saddest part is the evidence in every facet of media (and beyond, including tech industries, government, so forth) of the quantifiable benefits of diversity seems to never be enough to quash people's fears, prejudices and straight-up unfounded preconceptions. I can't disagree with, and can't adamantly tear down and admonish that line of thinking enough. Phew.
 
Yeah. Pretty much.

He created some of the most popular franchises in the world and the most recognizable character ever this side of Mickey Mouse. He led a videogame revolution all through the 80s and 90s. His influence is undeniable.

But I also find that his paradigm shifts and envelope pushing stopped a long time ago. He didn't keep up with mothers times and got stuck in the past. Nintendo, unlike him, does show signs of trying to keep up. I don't see the same from Miyamoto.

Just look at the most successful new franchise and the most successful relaunch of a franchise from them in the last decade: Splatoon and Fire Emblem. Neither had Miyamoto anything to to with them.

How was Star Fox Zero doing, anyway?

http://www.gamnesia.com/news/miyamoto-didnt-like-splatoon-in-its-early-stages-of-development

Miyamoto still has his hands on a lot of games that Nintnedo releases. His role may be different but he is still involved.
 
You're not even getting what I'm saying. I'm not specifically talking about pandering. You're right that there's a thin line; I'd even say that there's no line at all. My point is that this issue shouldn't be viewed any differently than any other fan request. I know that sounds insensitive, and I'd love for it to be different, but the reason I feel this way is that inclusion is a tricky matter to deal with and you can't please every single person on the planet no matter what you do. I don't see why women need to take priority in this department over minorities, transgender people, or homosexuals. So, why are people not clamoring for an Indian trans-female lesbian Link? Well, they probably would eventually. Also, since only exclusively female protagonists are considered in that thread you posted, a female Link wouldn't have done anything for that anyway. Also, I love how you're accusing me of throwing out arguments, then telling me to leave the discussion if I don't agree with certain points. Nothing hypocritical there at all.

It's not a matter of pleasing everyone. It's a matter of improvement, not a matter of being perfect, or never trying at all.

If you need to have a set goal for augmenting diversity: it's about getting to the point that people don't see a women, or minorities, transgender people, or homosexuals in a lead role of a video game, and then loudly ask "why are they trying to pander to ____??" or say "they're shoehorning ______ into this series." It's about getting to the point where people don't

If we can move past corporate heads, publishers and creatives scrambling to come up with reasons after the fact why they can't/won't/shouldn't/will never have a girl star in their games, then people won't get angered by the the perpetuation of the notion that people like them, or people who aren't a certain way don't deserve to the lead, to be the hero. Then you won't ever lament that there's always someone complaining about lack of diversity of inclusion because there will be diversity and inclusion. If we reach a point where there's never a developer who has to defend and fight for their decision to make their lead character a woman, then someone who wants their game to star an Indian trans-female lesbian character wouldn't have to fight either, not without exposing the double-standards in place, and forcing people to actually consider the status quo they've been upholding.

And that thread was specifically about exclusively-female leads in game — it's not that "those are the only ones that 'count.'" That's just what the thread was about, and that focus was to show there's still a disparity in game leads.
 
While I would love a female version of Link, it's clear they want to make him a full-fledged character like Mario or Samus. The fact that apparently we won't be able to name him at all in BOTW is quite the clue.

Anyways, Miya-san is not the first one to talk about a Sheik spin-off? Hype?
Skyward Sword was already quite a clue honestly.
 
You're not even getting what I'm saying. I'm not specifically talking about pandering. You're right that there's a thin line; I'd even say that there's no line at all. My point is that this issue shouldn't be viewed any differently than any other fan request. I know that sounds insensitive, and I'd love for it to be different, but the reason I feel this way is that inclusion is a tricky matter to deal with and you can't please every single person on the planet no matter what you do. I don't see why women need to take priority in this department over minorities, transgender people, or homosexuals. So, why are people not clamoring for an Indian trans-female lesbian Link? Well, they probably would eventually.
I reread your post and honestly do not really see how I 'didn't get' what you were saying. But good that we agree that the pandering / listening to fans distinction is blurry to non-existent. Though I still do not understand where this line of slippery slope reasoning comes from or how it is a counterpoint to people wanting representation. There is virtually no evidence supporting these slippery slope type arguments. What is this based on? Why would it be an actual risk? What is the precedent for it? How does one group calling for better representation ( and rightfully so ) lead to some 'nightmare' scenario where everyone wants fully equalized representation for anything and everything at all times? Again, this type of argument has been extensively covered in the other thread. It would be appreciated if you would at least clarify a bit more on how and why.
Also, since only exclusively female protagonists are considered in that thread you posted, a female Link wouldn't have done anything for that anyway.
Which is why I clearly and specifically put the following in my post: "( general note: while there is some overlap with this discussion, it is still very much a separate discussion on a related but different issue )". I referred you to that thread because even though they are about mostly different issues, some similar points have been brought up and discussed multiple times there and I figured the explanations would help.
Also, I love how you're accusing me of throwing out arguments, then telling me to leave the discussion if I don't agree with certain points. Nothing hypocritical there at all.
???
Please point me to where I directly accuse you of anything or tell you to leave the discussion? I thought I made it pretty clear that I want more discussion, not less.
 
Spring-Loaded:

I comprehend nothing less than 100 percent of your argument, and I understand your frustration with the lack of representation in this beloved series of yours. But the fact remains: it is not broken, and to "fix" or alter this sanguine aspect of the series is a seriously risky maneuver by a company which cannot afford to take such unfounded gambles.

Through it all, I must ask you: what precisely is wrong with simply supporting other franchises which feature girl-saves-boy and other diverse fictional scenarios? Why is it that Zelda specifically must consider this change? Can we not honor the creative vision of the progenitors and the absolutely blameless risk aversion of the corporation by simply accepting this convention as a longstanding and widely-cherished property of the franchise?
 
It's not a matter of pleasing everyone. It's a matter of improvement, not a matter of being perfect, or never trying at all.

If you need to have a set goal for augmenting diversity: it's about getting to the point that people don't see a women, or minorities, transgender people, or homosexuals in a lead role of a video game, and then loudly ask "why are they trying to pander to ____??" or say "they're shoehorning ______ into this series." It's about getting to the point where people don't

If we can move past corporate heads, publishers and creatives scrambling to come up with reasons after the fact why they can't/won't/shouldn't/will never have a girl star in their games, then people won't get angered by the the perpetuation of the notion that people like them, or people who aren't a certain way don't deserve to the lead, to be the hero. Then you won't ever lament that there's always someone complaining about lack of diversity of inclusion because there will be diversity and inclusion. If we reach a point where there's never a developer who has to defend and fight for their decision to make their lead character a woman, then someone who wants their game to star an Indian trans-female lesbian character wouldn't have to fight either, not without exposing the double-standards in place, and forcing people to actually consider the status quo they've been upholding.

And that thread was specifically about exclusively-female leads in game — it's not that "those are the only ones that 'count.'" That's just what the thread was about, and that focus was to show there's still a disparity in game leads.

I reread your post and honestly do not really see how I 'didn't get' what you were saying. But good that we agree that the pandering / listening to fans distinction is blurry to non-existent. Though I still do not understand where this line of slippery slope reasoning comes from or how it is a counterpoint to people wanting representation. There is virtually no evidence supporting these slippery slope type arguments. What is this based on? Why would it be an actual risk? What is the precedent for it? How does one group calling for better representation ( and rightfully so ) lead to some 'nightmare' scenario where everyone wants fully equalized representation for anything and everything at all times? Again, this type of argument has been extensively covered in the other thread. It would be appreciated if you would at least clarify a bit more on how and why.Which is why I clearly and specifically put the following in my post: "( general note: while there is some overlap with this discussion, it is still very much a separate discussion on a related but different issue )". I referred you to that thread because even though they are about mostly different issues, some similar points have been brought up and discussed multiple times there and I figured the explanations would help.???
Please point me to where I directly accuse you of anything or tell you to leave the discussion? I thought I made it pretty clear that I want more discussion, not less.

Alright, both of you answer this then:

Okay, so I think that at this point we've fully established that there are simply two different philosophies among fans.

  1. Link is a character/set of characters.
  2. Link is an avatar.
Miyamoto is on the side of the former. That should be end of it, since there shouldn't really be a "correct" interpretation and everyone, including the creators of the series, is going to feel differently. That's just how it is. So, can someone on point #2 give a reasonable explanation for how #2 is the only correct interpretation of Link?
 
What is this obsession with making Link into a girl? I don't see it with other franchises. Nobody asks for a female Kratos or a female Nathan Drake.
 
Spring-Loaded:

I comprehend nothing less than 100 percent of your argument, and I understand your frustration with the lack of representation in this beloved series of yours. But the fact remains: it is not broken, and to "fix" or alter this sanguine aspect of the series is a seriously risky maneuver by a company which cannot afford to take such unfounded gambles.

Through it all, I must ask you: what precisely is wrong with simply supporting other franchises which feature girl-saves-boy and other diverse fictional scenarios? Why is it that Zelda specifically must consider this change? Can we not honor the creative vision of the progenitors and the absolutely blameless risk aversion of the corporation by simply accepting this convention as a longstanding and widely-cherished property of the franchise?

And that risk is overblown and propped up as an excuse here, 100 percent. An unnecessary cop out for no good reason. And it sounds like you realize that.

What's "wrong" with only supporting other, newer franchises is that the current leads behind one of the biggest franchises in gaming could — at the very least and without betraying any aspect of their franchise in any way — not actively oppose the concept "girl is the hero/saves the world." They could be an example for those other franchises. Could show that having the girl save the world and being the hero can be a given, not something that is radical or rebellious. They could be an example for the hand-wringing, apprehensive publishers out there that question and reject the "viability" and "sales projections" of games they publish with female leads.

It's asinine to support tradition on its own when there's no inherent benefit and when it stagnates output and success. That notion that it should always be a boy as the lead in this series (which never actually focuses on themes of boyhood/manhood and would be no lesser, merely different, for changing elements related to that non-existent focus) is in the same ballpark of saying the visuals should never have moved to 3D. Moving to 3D alienated people; I recall a GAF user saying their dad or uncle used to play old-school Zelda, but simply couldn't get into OoT, finding it to be aimless. But there's no denying the possibility added by moving to 3D. And 3D isn't comprehensively and inherently better than 2D, but there's no denying those new possibilities.
 
What is this obsession with making Link into a girl? I don't see it with other franchises. Nobody asks for a female Kratos or a female Nathan Drake.

People have asked/hoped for female leads in those games though, same with a lot of series. And for a long time, Aonuma said Link was merely the connection/link between the player and the game world. That coupled with there being multiple links throughout the series led to people concluding the possibility of Link reincarnating as a girl. People have wanted Zelda as a lead for a long time too, but perhaps due to preconceptions of what kind of game women characters star in, or in what kinds of games devs/pubs were likely to have female leads, the notion of having a Link be a girl and/or to have an option for it seems less disruptive relative to past games in the series, or less trouble to add to a theoretical Zelda game that's already in production or being mapped out.

I agree. All this arguing leads nowhere. If the game designers have a vision for their game than we should respect that vision regardless of the reasoning. It's better to try and create your own games so you have complete creative control instead of asking for significant changes to already existing franchises.

I'd love to see a Zelda spin off game with Zelda as the main character.

I agree it's better to create one's own games to get what one wants. However, that doesn't change that fact that when someone's selling a game to people, or even if they merely create something then display it to the world, that work is subject to reaction/criticism/feedback. People can and do assess creators' reasoning behind their work, and creative work always has thought and reasoning put into it — the extent or lack of that thought can and will be observed and assessed.

Taking a creator's work seriously enough to dissect, weight and discuss its positives, negatives, achievements and shortcomings, in any regard, is to respect it. I will never seriously discuss Michael Bay movies or Rob Liefeld art because I don't respect it and have seen adequate evidence that they don't take their own work seriously. Miyamoto, Aonuma and co. have shown they take their creations seriously, and people respect it enough to discuss how it could be different or expanded to their work's benefit.
 
I don't really know what Aonuma was thinking when he said about triforce balance but I understand his concern about Link's role if Zelda was the protagonist. Link is the face of Zelda series and one of the most iconic character of all time and sell games solely based on this. It's like a seal of quality personification. Changing this could hurt the franchise when we think in a marketing's perspective.
 
Miyamoto pushed the Splatoon team to make better character designs and that was a big part of that game's success.
Star Fox Zero is the best in the franchise since 64. The controls kept it from selling well, but they're also likely the only reason it was greenlight.
Saying Miyamoto is a hack or whatever because he's not pulling a FemThor seems unwarranted.

Exactly
:p
Yeah SFZ is the best SF since 1997 because it's basically a remake of SF64 and because of how mediocre the last efforts have been since then. Not because SFZ is particularly amazing.

And yeah the only reason it got a green light was because it was looking to justify the Gamepad. And that didn't work out for them, did it?
 
I don't really know what Aonuma was thinking when he said about triforce balance but I understand his concern about Link's role if Zelda was the protagonist. Link is the face of Zelda series and one of the most iconic character of all time and sell games solely based on this. It's like a seal of quality personification. Changing this could hurt the franchise when we think in a marketing's perspective.

It could also help the franchise overall. If it were Zelda in that initial reveal trailer, there wouldn't be any more question as to what game it was than it having been Link. Link already didn't have the green tunic, there wasn't any classic Zelda music in that teaser. Writing a story with Zelda in the lead adventurer role wouldn't hurt the Legend of Zelda brand any more than the other changes/deviations they've taken so far. Any decision could turn out for the worse, yet this one possibility is too scary for some. There aren't a lot of other conclusions to be made about that besides a disproportionate amount of apprehension and discomfort surrounding gender.

Join my crusade comrade.

What would you envision the spinoff to play like?
 
And that risk is overblown and propped up as an excuse here, 100 percent. An unnecessary cop out for no good reason. And it sounds like you realize that.

What's "wrong" with only supporting other, newer franchises is that the current leads behind one of the biggest franchises in gaming could — at the very least and without betraying any aspect of their franchise in any way — not actively oppose the concept "girl is the hero/saves the world." They could be an example for those other franchises. Could show that having the girl save the world and being the hero can be a given, not something that is radical or rebellious. They could be an example for the hand-wringing, apprehensive publishers out there that question and reject the "viability" and "sales projections" of games they publish with female leads.
Should they attempt such a change and then find themselves met with, say, 15 to 30 percent lower sales of their latest investment to the tune of millions of dollars -- not to mention the opportunity cost of having disconnected with a previously otherwise satisfied segment of their fanbase, then however overblown the risk is considered to be, it is still nonetheless an unacceptable risk.

Some of you seem to make the mistake of assuming that these games are purely about creativity, even to the extent which a creator's role borders on social activism. This is business, folks; don't kid yourselves. These companies are made and broken by their decisions about the futures of their central IPs. Nintendo, as it happens, owes nearly as much of their success to the continued responsible management of the Zelda franchise a they do to anything else they own and produce.

It is cold, hard business in a fiercely competitive industry. Most companies would absolutely kill to own a property as lucrative and beloved as Zelda. For as much experimentation as is undertaken within the confines of the franchise's boundaries, there are limits to what can be attempted with the dollars and yen of investors. These decisions are not taken lightly, and they most certainly are not ratified by way of message board discussions or online fringe fan campaigns. PR will always politely address such discussions when they are invoked by interviewers, but the companies are already fully aware of what should and should not be considered to preserve and maintain their most precious assets. It simply is what it is.
 
What is this obsession with making Link into a girl? I don't see it with other franchises. Nobody asks for a female Kratos or a female Nathan Drake.

Zelda is unusual in that there's nothing in the lore that explicitly rules out a female incarnation of Link. Of course, the creators of the series have expressed little to no desire to actually make a Link that deviates that much from the template, but since it's not explicit in the lore, many are continuing on undeterred.

Personally I don't care all that much about what happens so long the end result isn't a choice. Breath of the Wild is about where I'd draw the line on how much character customization I think should be in Zelda. If they want to make Link female, then so be it, but they should own that decision. Making it optional would be a huge cop out.
 
Alright, both of you answer this then:
I fail to see how that post leads directly from the discussion we were having and would appreciate it if you would reply to the questions asked / points made, but I'll 'answer' it.
Okay, so I think that at this point we've fully established that there are simply two different philosophies among fans.

  1. Link is a character/set of characters.
  2. Link is an avatar.
Miyamoto is on the side of the former. That should be end of it, since there shouldn't really be a "correct" interpretation and everyone, including the creators of the series, is going to feel differently. That's just how it is. So, can someone on point #2 give a reasonable explanation for how #2 is the only correct interpretation of Link?
I completely agree there are varying opinions on this matter, but this 'us vs. them' mentality you seem to be pushing here is unlikely to lead to any productive discussion. Both the view of Link as a character and of Link as an avatar are legitimate views; both views have plenty of legitimate arguments supporting them. I am not 'on side #2', nor do I believe there is one correct interpretation of Link. I discussed this avatar vs. character point earlier with member Skittzo0413 in another thread ( Post 1 / Post 2 / Post 3 ); it might give some more insight on my view on this specific aspect. Link has shifted around a fair bit on the 'avatar' to 'character' scale and thus I don't think any one view on what exactly he is is 'wrong'. Like you bring up, there has also been some shifting on this by the developers themselves.

I am not here to discuss what interpretation of Link is 'correct' - because I do not think any specific interpretation of Link is 'wrong'. I am here to try and get explanations from people vocally opposed to femLink / playable female or the whole discussion in the first place. Most of the reasons given by people specifically against femLink / playable female seem to not make very much sense on their own - most of them are also similar to points brought up in that 3% thread I linked earlier - and I want to point that out. Even though I would love it personally, I don't think Nintendo should have to add femLink or a female player character to Zelda. That is not my drive in this discussion. I feel like this 'issue' is much less clear than the 3% thread. However, all that does not prevent me from calling out people on their flawed / disingenuous reasoning and some people's apparent want for shutting down the discussion entirely simply because they do not agree or do not understand why people started it in the first place.
 
Nothing is gained by rejecting the possibility, which is what's being done here. It's not just a rejection of a reincarnation of Link being a girl — Miyamoto has said Zelda won't be the lead in the series either. Nintendo as a whole has other series with diverse casts and openness toward inclusion, but that doesn't meet an arbitrary quota — which, if met, would absolve Nintendo of any criticism overall — because that quota doesn't exist.

In regard to this discussion, the preciousness that kind of story holds for some people fascinates me, because in its two forms — one that seeks to defend creative vision on a principle level, and the other that simply holds that convention dear.

For the former, there exists an assumption that what makes the story of "boy saves girl/world/etc.," special or worthy of holding dear is the gender of the lead, even if those stories do not deal with gender-specific elements, even though "coming of age," tales work for any gender, and even though the Zelda series has, at most, only merely made mention of (fictional) cultural mores involving gender, none of which are constant throughout the series, or must meet certain criteria from title to title. Even if there were something of value lost by having the story feature a boy Link rather than a girl Link or Zelda — and there simply wouldn't be anything lost that would be too precious to lose for a single entry in this 15+ entry series — it would not negate what is gained: more options for players, more inclusiveness and diversity (of which there is inherent value — can't recall if you and I have discussed that in particular before, but we can if needed), reinforcing the notion that girls can save the boy, the world, and can go on these adventures.
...

For those who cherish stories of boys going on adventures/saving the world, who find that those stories speak to them in a way a story about a girl couldn't (either through being able to better relate to certain trials and experiences one gender experiences more than others), and who reject the possibility of having a girl star in a mainline Zelda game: they are advocating for other people to miss out on what they already have gotten time and time again. A mix of "screw you, I got mine," and "they're taking out jobs Zelda stories." It's just irrational fear of losing something that they won't lose, and fear of potentially having to assume the role of someone different, despite there already being different characters assumed throughout the Zelda series, let alone the gaming landscape as a whole. It's miserly.
...
.

Wow, you basically made an essay here. I will not commit on the video games and their treatment to girls in general, but just in terms of Miyamoto and Aonuma's responses. My impression is that they do not feel that "Princess Zelda" should not directly fight. Perhaps Zelda's moveset would be too different to make the same type of game, or that they just don't want to make a game in which you play a mage-like character. It should be noted that Link doesn't use magic that often, and it has been downplayed even more in the later games.

In either case, they appear to be more willing to make a Sheik game instead. That maybe due to Zelda in that form being much more of a melee character, though her moveset shouldn't be the same as Link.

At least for now, my conclusion is that

1) Link, "the hero of the goddess," is always a male and is mostly his own character. Each Link has some of its own personality, but some of his characteristics are intentional left blank because it is up to the player. For example: Is LInk soft-spoken or more sarcastic? The player has some control to Link's response, and they can imagine how he will say it. Voice-acting with take the latter part away from the player, so that is why they do not want to go route with Link.

2) Zelda, "the incarnation of the Goddess" is always female. For some reason or the other, Nintendo does not picture Zelda fighting when she is a "princess," though she seems to be very capable of it when she is not, (Sheik, Tetra, spirit-Zelda, etc).

So, at least from what I see, the issue is not that Zelda can't fight because she is a girl, as much as, "she can't fight when she is Princess Zelda." I guess that is a different topic, though.
 
Should they attempt such a change and then find themselves met with, say, 15 to 30 percent lower sales of their latest investment to the tune of millions of dollars -- not to mention the opportunity cost of having disconnected with a previously otherwise satisfied segment of their fanbase, then however overblown the risk is considered to be, it is still nonetheless an unacceptable risk.

Should they make that change and then find it's their best selling title since Twilight Princess, gaining positive press after repeated poor public showings in the wake of that Allison Rapp situation and their poorly-received comments about "Triforce balance," that appeared in The Verge and Forbes articles, then it would to their benefit.

You make mention of "cold, hard business." Do you know more diverse media does better than less diverse competition? Do you know businesses with diverse staff are categorically better suited to address problems? We're seeing Overwatch, a diverse game in myriad ways, have one of the fastest growing playerbases, and you're dismissing the potential benefit of that diversity, that "risk."

I can't join you in pretending Nintendo is infallible in this aspect of their business when they've shown their business savvy can be so questionable in other areas. Them being a big company doesn't mean it isn't painfully clear to everyone that the Wii U wasn't a failure. Anyone gets to say that, because it's true, and Nintendo misread the industry and their audience. Sounds like "appeal to authority" fallacy, a bad one at that.
 
In BotW you explicitly choose what Link says or asks other characters (although you don't get to hear him audibly say it), so that's kind of out the window now.
I don't know that "Who are you?" and "Bye!" are really character-defining questions. Skyward Sword had the occasional dialogue option too, but they were, for the most part, extremely superficial and ineffectual.
 
What would you envision the spinoff to play like?
We've had this discussion before.

There's a bunch of options. You could obviously go the simple route and just do a basic warrior princess a la Hyrule Warriors. I think that's potentially very boring though, just like I find the idea of character customization to be a potentially boring addition that does little to add a new mechanical spin to the formula.

Ideally, you would do something that is more about changing the LoZ formula. You could make a game that centers almost wholly on spellcraft, a focus that I think would actually be fairly unique. You could also do a survival-adventure game, for example looking into what Zelda was doing while Link was in stasis during OoT. You could go really out there and do something dealing with political machinations of the castle/royalty, but that's probably something only I would enjoy.

I still think the most interesting option is in fact probably to do the recently discussed game about her being an awesome magic-ninja.
46af58d25846e1ee93f36ccf2b1fc37d.jpg
 
Spring-Loaded:

It sounds as though you are extrapolating Nintendo's refusal to alter a fundamental aspect of one of their leading properties as you see fit to reflect on their supposed lack of diversity in their workforce (or their support thereof). I'm not sure if this stems from some sort of vendetta or deeply-seated resentment you harbor over the company's handling of such issues in the recent past, but the fact is that these are two wholly separate issues, both warranting wholly separate discussions.

The female Link issue is entirely confined to Zelda's preservation as a critical intellectual property of the company and has absolutely nothing to do with the company's workforce diversity or attitudes toward such. However you feel about it, their refusal to honor a very specific request by a very small constituency of their fanbase for an alteration to something as fundamental to their success as the Zelda franchise is not something for which they can or should be criticized.

Zelda is Nintendo's and Nintendo's only to manage and create, and if the fans (or some subset of them) do not appreciate how it is managed, they can make requests... but absolutely no one should be surprised if they are not honored, especially if they are as left-field as the female Link proposition. An infinite number of requests can be issued by an infinite number of constituencies and factions, but unless the company calculates that their honoring of such requests will absolutely lead to positive net results financially, they have precisely zero grounds on which to base their acceptance of arbitrary special orders by their largely satisfied patrons. And make no mistake, it is not only Nintendo themselves who is judging the results of their business decisions, but every single stockholder and shareholder who places their trust in the company's solvency and vision.
 
Zelda informer once made a poll and half of their readers wanted a girl link.

But I am talking about EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW of a dev about why their game had problems. It took capcom like 4 months to understand that releasing without singleplayer was a bad idea =P

http://www.zeldainformer.com/articl...y-and-exploration-on-top-twilight-princess-ha

Wrong. The largest group has always been the no group, on most sites (but this one, I wonder why), with the second largest being people who don't care and the last being people that want a female Link.

05c17c0d21.jpg
The idea has always been niche and will die niche.
I doubt she'd get the treatment she deserves in a spin-off.
A spinoff doesn't have to mean that it's inferior.

What is this obsession with making Link into a girl? I don't see it with other franchises. Nobody asks for a female Kratos or a female Nathan Drake.
Inb4, "that's different cause Link is different characters."
 
Wow, you basically made an essay here. I will not commit on the video games and their treatment to girls in general, but just in terms of Miyamoto and Aonuma's responses. My impression is that they do not feel that "Princess Zelda" should not directly fight. Perhaps Zelda's moveset would be too different to make the same type of game, or that they just don't want to make a game in which you play a mage-like character. It should be noted that Link doesn't use magic that often, and it has been downplayed even more in the later games.

In either case, they appear to be more willing to make a Sheik game instead. That maybe due to Zelda in that form being much more of a melee character, though her moveset shouldn't be the same as Link.

At least for now, my conclusion is that

1) Link, "the hero of the goddess," is always a male and is mostly his own character. Each Link has some of its own personality, but some of his characteristics are intentional left blank because it is up to the player. For example: Is LInk soft-spoken or more sarcastic? The player has some control to Link's response, and they can imagine how he will say it. Voice-acting with take the latter part away from the player, so that is why they do not want to go route with Link.

2) Zelda, "the incarnation of the Goddess" is always female. For some reason or the other, Nintendo does not picture Zelda fighting when she is a "princess," though she seems to be very capable of it when she is not, (Sheik, Tetra, spirit-Zelda, etc).

So, at least from what I see, the issue is not that Zelda can't fight because she is a girl, as much as, "she can't fight when she is Princess Zelda." I guess that is a different topic, though.
I find lore posts interesting but I don't really see the merit of using lore in this discussion to support or make a point. "My impression is", "Perhaps", "That may be due to", "from what I can see"; all words that show that this is you piecing together separate pieces of information and making assumptions. While I find theorizing like this interesting, it does not make for a great line of discussion. These are not things directly stated in the lore. And yes, I don't feel it really makes the statement any better if this were indeed his true intention.

Similarly - and more generally - I don't think using lore to support or make a point against femLink / female player character is much productive either. The Zelda lore has been fairly fluid, from them releasing a simple timeline, to them denying there is a timeline or intended structure at all, to 'j/k, there is a timeline for real' and then adding lore to make some things fit. Besides that, I believe nothing currently in the lore specifically dictates that Link should be male or that the Hero cannot be female ( if I am wrong here, please correct me ). Now, you can pull together several statements and look at the games overall and then draw conclusion that 'this is what they mean', but that would again require some assumption. The lore does not seem particularly set in stone and Nintendo can pretty much remove or add anything if they so desire. Until they add to the lore by specifically clarifying this, I don't find lore by itself to be a compelling argument, be it for or against anything.
 
I trust Nintendo to be able to pull that off.

More-Peach.jpg
I do recall this game rather vividly, and that was way back over a decade ago. Nintendo, the ever-sexist, ever-close-minded company, who somehow managed to place Princess Peach in a starring role. How soon these gestures are forgotten...
 
I trust Nintendo to be able to pull that off.

More-Peach.jpg
I don't think Peach, the character with less personality than Link, having her own game and it being terrible is really any indication that a Zelda starred game would be bad.

Even then though, to deny the existence of Zelda having her own game of any kind, be it spin off or not, as it's not what you want, is to prove that you care very little, if at all even, about representation.

This isn't directed at you Kurdel, merely an observation for the thread.
 
http://www.zeldainformer.com/articl...y-and-exploration-on-top-twilight-princess-ha

Wrong. The largest group has always been the no group, on most sites (but this one, I wonder why), with the second largest being people who don't care and the last being people that want a female Link.

05c17c0d21.jpg
The idea has always been niche and will die niche.
q9ddw__large.jpg


From the same page. This discussion is not necessarily specifically about femLink, it is also in a broader sense about the option for a female character. The majority of Zelda fans apparently would play a Zelda game with female protagonist. Aside from all that, also note that people are not calling for 'normal' link to go away; most people are asking for an added option. Nothing is taken away from anyone. People that want to play boy link still would be able to.
I do recall this game rather vividly, and that was way back over a decade ago. Nintendo, the ever-sexist, ever-close-minded company, who somehow managed to place Princess Peach in a starring role. How soon these gestures are forgotten...
I think you might not detect the sarcasm in their post here. Feels to me they are pointing out how they based the entire game around the stereotype of women being overly emotional.
 
I fail to see how that post leads directly from the discussion we were having and would appreciate it if you would reply to the questions asked / points made, but I'll 'answer' it.I completely agree there are varying opinions on this matter, but this 'us vs. them' mentality you seem to be pushing here is unlikely to lead to any productive discussion. Both the view of Link as a character and of Link as an avatar are legitimate views; both views have plenty of legitimate arguments supporting them. I am not 'on side #2', nor do I believe there is one correct interpretation of Link. I discussed this avatar vs. character point earlier with member Skittzo0413 in another thread ( Post 1 / Post 2 / Post 3 ); it might give some more insight on my view on this specific aspect. Link has shifted around a fair bit on the 'avatar' to 'character' scale and thus I don't think any one view on what exactly he is is 'wrong'. Like you bring up, there has also been some shifting on this by the developers themselves.

I am not here to discuss what interpretation of Link is 'correct' - because I do not think any specific interpretation of Link is 'wrong'. I am here to try and get explanations from people vocally opposed to femLink / playable female or the whole discussion in the first place. Most of the reasons given by people specifically against femLink / playable female seem to not make very much sense on their own - most of them are also similar to points brought up in that 3% thread I linked earlier - and I want to point that out. Even though I would love it personally, I don't think Nintendo should have to add femLink or a female player character to Zelda. That is not my drive in this discussion. I feel like this 'issue' is much less clear than the 3% thread. However, all that does not prevent me from calling out people on their flawed / disingenuous reasoning and some people's apparent want for shutting down the discussion entirely simply because they do not agree or do not understand why people started it in the first place.

My point was that it's not an "us vs. them" argument and that we all need to accept that there are different viewpoints. Somehow, the general feeling among fans who want this change to happen is that Miyamoto is not allowed to have an opinion on the matter and just needs to listen to what the assumed majority wants. I disagree with that, as well as with the sentiment that anyone needs to justify their stance on the matter

In the end, I don't really care so long as it's not just guys in suits forcing devs to do it just so they can talk about how progressive they are in interviews. If this is just being done to appease a group and not because it's something that the truly want to do, what do you think's gonna happen if the sales or quality of the game are affected negatively? If the suits blame it on the change, they're going to become adverse to ever trying it again, meaning that it could end up backfiring. That's why it concerns me, and that's why I think it should all just be left up to the people making the game. Fans should let their opinions and desires be heard, but I don't think it's fair to call Miyamoto sexist or say that he's detrimental to the progress of the entire industry over this. It's not like this is the only IP he's ever worked on. I also think the the idea that a female Link would cause a major change in the industry is kinda silly. Something like GTA would have a bigger impact IMO, and makes a lot more sense to boot.

Then again, I'm also a crazy person who believes that gaming industry feminists should be encouraging women to take charge of changing the industry themselves instead of yelling at people to change their ways, so maybe I'm just weird with my ideals in feminism. I've also become increasingly annoyed with how this is the only thing most of GAF cares about just because they were hyped over this rumor.

q9ddw__large.jpg


From the same page. This discussion is not necessarily specifically about femLink, it is also in a broader sense about the option for a female character. The majority of Zelda fans apparently would play a Zelda game with female protagonist. Aside from all that, also note that people are not calling for 'normal' link to go away; most people are asking for an added option. Nothing is taken away from anyone. People that want to play boy link still would be able to.

All that this says is that most Zelda fans aren't sexist and just want to play Zelda games. You'd see a similar result for just about any loved IP.
 
q9ddw__large.jpg


From the same page. This discussion is not necessarily specifically about femLink, it is also in a broader sense about the option for a female character. The majority of Zelda fans apparently would play a Zelda game with female protagonist. Aside from all that, also note that people are not calling for 'normal' link to go away; most people are asking for an added option. Nothing is taken away from anyone. People that want to play boy link still would be able to.
I think you might not detect the sarcasm in their post here. Feels to me they are pointing out how they based the entire game around the stereotype of women being overly emotional.

But the survey above asked specifically about an option, we pretty much stopped talking about a Zelda game with a female protagonist a long time ago and the fans are specifically apposed to a gender option or a female Link, I don't think anyone is actually against a playable Zelda or Saria or the like.
 
I have 0 issues with a protagonist being a male or female. I think it's stupid we don't have more female protagonists in gaming.

But link is a male character. Its like saying I want a male samus in my next metroid game.

What I would like to see instead, is a game where Zelda is the main protagonist.

Link isn't like a master Shepard where that character was envisioned as a customizable avatar that the player could create in their own image or however they choose so, he's envisioned as a defined character who is male like geralt or kratos, the same way samus or Laura croft is a female

That's just who the character is

Bring on a Zelda game where we can play as Zelda or sheik as the main character
 
q9ddw__large.jpg


From the same page. This discussion is not necessarily specifically about femLink, it is also in a broader sense about the option for a female character. The majority of Zelda fans apparently would play a Zelda game with female protagonist. Aside from all that, also note that people are not calling for 'normal' link to go away; most people are asking for an added option. Nothing is taken away from anyone. People that want to play boy link still would be able to.
Heh.

Forgive me, but the mere fact that only 65% of visitors to a Zelda-specific fansite claim that they would even want to play a Zelda game starring a female hero ought to spell out the value of the opposing argument here (23% more would be "indifferent"... which actually seems pretty meaningless as an option here, so let's just assume they will play the final product). It is an incredibly risky move. Put another way, this poll indicates that an entire 12% of the Zelda fanbase specific to this website would not even play the game if it featured a female hero. It may not actually turn out to be true in practice, but the fact remains that this is a massive constituency.

Earlier, I surmised that some "15%" of the sales might be sacrificed by a gender switch in my scenario. It is likely safe to assume that this number would be quite a bit higher in the general market, many of whom would see the box art on the shelf or at Amazon.com, or possibly read reviews, and then decide to skip it if it doesn't factor into their typical expectations for the franchise. 12% is pretty close... and that's presumed to be a snapshot of serious Zelda fans.
 
q9ddw__large.jpg


From the same page. This discussion is not necessarily specifically about femLink, it is also in a broader sense about the option for a female character. The majority of Zelda fans apparently would play a Zelda game with female protagonist. Aside from all that, also note that people are not calling for 'normal' link to go away; most people are asking for an added option. Nothing is taken away from anyone. People that want to play boy link still would be able to.
I think you might not detect the sarcasm in their post here. Feels to me they are pointing out how they based the entire game around the stereotype of women being overly emotional.

Of course options take something away. The more options that you have for the protagonist, the more general the story is forced to be to adapt to that.
 
q9ddw__large.jpg


From the same page. This discussion is not necessarily specifically about femLink, it is also in a broader sense about the option for a female character. The majority of Zelda fans apparently would play a Zelda game with female protagonist. Aside from all that, also note that people are not calling for 'normal' link to go away; most people are asking for an added option. Nothing is taken away from anyone. People that want to play boy link still would be able to.
I think you might not detect the sarcasm in their post here. Feels to me they are pointing out how they based the entire game around the stereotype of women being overly emotional.
Of course for a piegraph about any playable female character, "no" would be way smaller. No one should be against a playable female character, as gender shouldn't matter so much as to detere you from playing a game.

Also no, you really can't play as "normal Link" in that scenario, you'd be playing as "Link who may or may not be a boy or girl" and not as what Link is, a actual character in the world of Hyrule, a male character.

Seriously, a playable Zelda is the answer to this issue, as Aonuma and his team put it, it's the "simplest option" so I see no reason why we have to discuss Link's gender when playing as Zelda is not only a option, at least in a spinoff, but one that truly should effect no one.

Unless you don't give two shits about a female character and just want a female Link because you think you deserve a female Link.
 
I trust Nintendo to be able to pull that off.

More-Peach.jpg

I never got the hate for this game, I thought it was pretty good and much more interesting than any of the NSMB games. It was trying to do a lot of different and new things. And the art style reminds me of YI, which is amazing.

Yes, she used her emotions, but so did every enemy, it was the gimmick of that island they were on.
 
I never got the hate for this game, I thought it was pretty good and much more interesting than any of the NSMB games. It was trying to do a lot of different and new things. And the art style reminds me of YI, which is amazing.

Yes, she used her emotions, but so did every enemy, it was the gimmick of that island they were on.

Wait...really? All I ever heard was that Peach was the only one who used her emotions. That's way better than what I've heard.
 
Top Bottom