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Miyamoto: In mainline Zeldas, Link will always be the hero, will consider S spin-offs

A Link to the Past said:
People aren't going to care to speak to you if you jump into a discussion swinging fists wildly, especially when you don't even understand what the discussion is about.
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Great, there you go again. You're a real upstanding poster. You have a pattern of doing this from what I've seen so I dunno where you come off taking the high ground and condemning anyone's language, abrasive or not. At least I'm not (repeatedly now!) resorting to insulting someone's intelligence like you've done to me... how many times now? Please keep going, it makes you look so intelligent and level-headed.

What's ridiculous about this is a lot of us want the same things but with somewhat different approaches and basic disagreements in places. Nintendo will obviously, in due time, make a Zelda game with a female protag as the yearning for it continues to increase among a large enough contingent within the fanbase and the shifts in the industry make it a clear no-brainer. I think it was always unrealistic to expect it would happen in BotW which has been in planning for years now, longer than any of us knew, and had no hints of not having the usual Link reincarnation as the primary hero once more. And even a mere few years ago the trends and discussions in the industry were so different that the talks of female Link or some kind of female lead were nothing like they were now and in the 2014 teaser.

Still it's unrealistic to expect for Nintendo to compromise (in their eyes) the visual identity of one of their main mascots, either by replacing him, having a create a character mode, or making him into a woman. I know there's artwork going back decades that shows Link's morphing appearance, but between the increasing graphical fidelity of the consoles, aging of the franchise, the Smash Bros games and more, Link has developed a known look...with stylistic changes here and there, and the WW style as an alt appearance, but nonetheless a highly recognizable appearance. This character straight up represents major profits and brand awareness for them and cannot be lightly taken out of the adventure. Nintendo wants the wider public to see Link in trailers and promotional materials, and for us to play as Link on our screens and have others see us playing with Link on screens, whether at a GameStop kiosk, the large monitors at the Nintendo NY store or some kid's NX handheld. All this in the same manner and function as Apple's big, bright logo on the body of a Macbook.
 
Reila said:
So Zelda is too good to have a female protagonist, huh? Noted.
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Lol what is this?


Also this news is fine by me i dont get why people are suddenly wanting this. I get that you want female protagonists but some things are just fine the way they are.
 
Mega said:
Still it's unrealistic to expect for Nintendo to compromise (in their eyes) the visual identity of one of their main mascots, either by replacing him, having a create a character mode, or making him into a woman. I know there's artwork going back decades that shows Link's morphing appearance, but between the increasing graphical fidelity of the consoles, aging of the franchise, the Smash Bros games and more, Link has developed a known look...with stylistic changes here and there, and the WW style as an alt appearance, but nonetheless a highly recognizable appearance. This character straight up represents major profits and brand awareness for them and cannot be lightly taken out of the adventure. Nintendo wants the wider public to see Link in trailers and promotional materials, and for us to play as Link on our screens and have others see us playing with Link on screens, whether at a GameStop kiosk, the large monitors at the Nintendo NY store or some kid's NX handheld. All this in the same manner and function as Apple's big, bright logo on the body of a Macbook.
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This is what I was saying earlier about reducing it to the visual. And how all those can be achieved AND having a Link being a girl. The "visual identity" doesn't have to change unless you're suggesting a girl could never ever look like Link (insert my version of your quote of righteous indignation). She can maintain the same "look" even without as many stylistic changes as has been done I the past. And she can still be highly recognizable.

(Also, before you played your game of choosing the differences in Tetra and Link, you should have checked other characters to see if those details were actual indications of gender throughout the game. They aren't.)
 
Galactic Fork said:
This is what I was saying earlier about reducing it to the visual. And how all those can be achieved AND having a Link being a girl. The "visual identity" doesn't have to change unless you're suggesting a girl could never ever look like Link (insert my version of your quote of righteous indignation). She can maintain the same "look" even without as many stylistic changes as has been done I the past. And she can still be highly recognizable.

(Also, before you played your game of choosing the differences in Tetra and Link, you should have checked other characters to see if those details were actual indications of gender throughout the game. They aren't.)
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I honestly believe Tetra looked like a girl and has subtle girl-like traits which I can see with my eyes right now (her eyes, in fact). It's not a game I'm playing at to prove anything and I wasn't even using it as a discussion point towards yes/no to Female Link. I was only responding to Platy in a sidebar that Tetra looks like a girl and Link looks like a boy in WW. No agenda. That's as deep as it went.

I'm trying in my limited way to see things from Nintendo's POV, which is likely a pragmatic one where they weigh risks and rewards in reimagining the franchise in measured steps. They're not short-minded simpletons while we're somehow geniuses who figured it all out. They have probably gone over everything being discussed in this thread already and mulled it over for a long time. I think the poster above saying everyone is whining is very much wrong as good points are being raised from all sides (inclusivity, male/female options, Link is a definite icon like Mario, new hero in a spin-off, etc). But on the flip side, are you really gonna disagree so vehemently over someone not being on board with you on your proposed plan? And when I say you, I don't mean to single you out. I mean the general thread sentiment for Female Link.

I think I've said at least a dozen times that I'm on board when Nintendo deems it right to put that female protag front and center, but without feeling rushed or pressured by fans with no understanding of their company and inner workings. For us, it is no big deal to talk and dream and propose any number of ideas like it's a piece of cake. We're all naive and clueless about running a billion dollar multinational corporation and have nothing at stake. It's EASY for us to talk shit here all day about what they could or ought to do. But the reality is very different. For them, it is a careful business decision that will take years and cost millions to create and bring to life, and can cost them millions more if not implemented effectively. I'd rather defer to them to get it right when the time comes and cut them some slack in the meantime.
 
Mega said:
Great, there you go again. You're a real upstanding poster. You have a pattern of doing this from what I've seen so I dunno where you come off taking the high ground and condemning anyone's language, abrasive or not. At least I'm not (repeatedly now!) resorting to insulting someone's intelligence like you've done to me... how many times now? Please keep going, it makes you look so intelligent and level-headed.
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You literally replied to a comment I made, very clearly misunderstood what I said based on an assumption you've made of what the discussion was about, questioned my logic based on your misunderstanding. You factually did not understand what the discussion was about. Claiming that this serves as an insult towards your intelligence would be like claiming I'm insulting you if you had a major grammatical error and I pointed it out.

But seriously, keep trying to take the high road. Hey, at least all you did was unnecessarily create an antagonistic situation. Don't start shit if you don't want shit.
 
I think if Miyamoto really wanted to say that a female Link isn't happening ever he would have said "MC will always be Link, and Link is always male" and if the Aonuma quote about the balance of the triforce was specific to BotW* it doesn't mean that the triforce balance will be an issue in every title, rather it could hint to that they have chosen to follow a narrative for BotW where it would matter that Link is male.

All I'm saying is that if they want to manifest Link as male forever, just say so outright. Or are they really that ignorant that they think the want of a female main character only manifests it self as wanting to play as Zelda?

*My google fu is weak today, I actually not able to dig up the original interview to see if the question was shaped in the sense of "Why isn't Link female in BotW" being specific to a single title or "Why isn't Link female?" as a general series thing.
 
Taruranto said:
Pretty much every videogame main character ever supposed to represent the player.

Sometimes they are exclusively males. Sometimes they are exclusively females. Sometimes you get to chose. In ALL case they are the player avatar in the game world.

Link is no less to an avatar to the female players than Samus to the male players. They both serve the same function.
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There's a sizable difference between how characters like Batman or Geralt or Aedan Pierce are presented, and how Link is presented. Link never expresses individual thoughts or suggestions to the player of what to do or where to go, he doesn't talk back in cutscenes, he never explains his reasoning to other characters. Or rather he does, but we literally never hear what he's saying because his reasoning at any given moment is meant to be our reasoning, or so that is Aonuma's justification for it.
 
Cartman86 said:
Just can't fathom having a strong opinion that Link needs to be male.
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I can't fathom having a strong opinion that the iconic character (and yes, he is a character) Link needs to have a sex change just for the sake of it. Yes, Link is technically several characters, and yes, you could conceivably make the next incarnation female, but why? Just because "more female protagonists in gaming!"? There's nothing wrong with wanting that, but there are better ways of doing it than changing an iconic character who's always been male.

Shaanyboi said:
There's a sizable difference between how characters like Batman or Geralt or Aedan Pierce are presented, and how Link is presented. Link never expresses individual thoughts or suggestions to the player of what to do or where to go, he doesn't talk back in cutscenes, he never explains his reasoning to other characters. Or rather he does, but we literally never hear what he's saying because his reasoning at any given moment is meant to be our reasoning, or so that is Aonuma's justification for it.
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In BotW you explicitly choose what Link says or asks other characters (although you don't get to hear him audibly say it), so that's kind of out the window now.
 
It's really a shame. There's a point when this stuff stops being a worthy cause and starts being really fucking stupid.
 
PtM said:
Two different characters.
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...... what

Did you even play Ocarina of Time? Sheik is literally Zelda in disguise. Try searching for Sheik on Wikipedia - oh right, there's no entry for her. Because it's part of the Zelda page as a disguise.

Sheik

In The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Zelda disguises herself as a surviving member of the Sheikah clan under the name of Sheik (シーク Shīku?). With voice muffled and face concealed, as well as wearing a form-fitting blue unitard with the red Sheikah eye in the center, Sheik is unrecognizable as Zelda.[14] Sheik plays the lyre and teaches Link new songs to help him on his quest. When Link arrives at the Temple of Time near the end of the game, she uses the Triforce of Wisdom and reverts to Zelda. It is claimed by the character's trophy in Super Smash Bros. Melee (its North American translation) that Zelda uses her magical skills to change her skin tone, hair length, eye color, and clothing
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When you have to make up things and completely misinterpret characters in order to argue your view it's honestly time to give up and let it go.
 
Rich! said:
...... what

Did you even play Ocarina of Time? Sheik is literally Zelda in disguise. Try searching for Sheik on Wikipedia - oh right, there's no entry for her. Because it's part of the Zelda page as a disguise.



When you have to make up things and completely misinterpret characters in order to argue your view it's honestly time to give up and let it go.
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Should have probably said personas.
 
Okay, so I think that at this point we've fully established that there are simply two different philosophies among fans.

  1. Link is a character/set of characters.
  2. Link is an avatar.
Miyamoto is on the side of the former. That should be end of it, since there shouldn't really be a "correct" interpretation and everyone, including the creators of the series, is going to feel differently. That's just how it is. So, can someone on point #2 give a reasonable explanation for how #2 is the only correct interpretation of Link?

PtM said:
Two different characters. Personas? Fuck it. Two different characters.
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srsface.gif


PtM said:
Fiction, how does it work? Sheik is nothing like Zelda.
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latest


Seriously, what the hell is even going on anymore?
 
Galactic Fork said:
What makes WW Link there more obviously male than Tetra? Imagine someone who has no idea who those characters are.
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I mean, the differences between men and women, especially when they're young, are pretty subtle in real life as well. We notice them because we look at human faces all day. That's why it's easy for me to tell that Link is a boy and Tetra is a girl - shape language that is associated with either gender that can only be recognized if you have spent hours and hours looking at faces (which most of us do as babies). Body curvature, slender eyebrows, thicker eyelashes, curvature of the body, etc.

You can blur that language of course.

milla-jovovich-photo-u1.jpg
00001Androgynous-Models.jpg
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PtM said:
So if someone asks for Zelda and gets as an answer something that is not like Zelda at all, that's one big cop-out.
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Alright, then. They should make a game with Zelda using only qualities that all Zelda incarnations have in common. Alright, let's make a list:

  1. They are princesses named Zelda.

Okay, cool. The Legend of Zelda: Princess Simulator! Get on it, Nintendo!

ihaveneverreadamoreridiculousargumentinmylifeholyshitwhatthefuckamireadingmybrainhurts

PtM said:
Rule of the thousand years old dragon. "I know it doesn't look anything like A, but it really is B." That right there is bull.
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AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
 
Looks like they made a choice. Not going to bash character or intelligence just because of that. People should move on. Every creator doesn't need to have a checklist to appease a segment of angry fans.

While I think female link would have been cool. Seeing the same tactics used on any company or creator that disagrees is crazy.
 
PtM said:
Two different characters. Personas? Fuck it. Two different characters.
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PtM said:
Should have probably said personas.
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PtM said:
Fiction, how does it work? Sheik is nothing like Zelda.
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PtM said:
So if someone asks for Zelda and gets as an answer something that is not like Zelda at all, that's one big cop-out.
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PtM said:
Rule of the thousand years old dragon. "I know it doesn't look anything like A, but it really is B." That right there is bull.
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dRf69f5.jpg


Wow...wow.
 
Xanxus said:
Lame because Link could easily be female and still be Link.
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There is nothing lame in having opinion and control over your own creation.

I would have nothing against a female link, but I have nothing again them preferring to keep link as a character established on the last 30 years on the market and planning a spinoff for other character of the series

As if Nintendo doesn't have other female protagonist
 
Rich! said:
The same reason why it would be the same case in any other year. The year has no relevance. They don't want to do it. End of.
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No its not the End. Hence this thread we're all participating in. They have the right to do what they want with their IP but also people have the right to criticize their decision.

Like I said Miyamoto is just a weird dude. Frankly he seems a bit backwards to me. Nintendo as a whole would be better off his they stop letting him make a lot of these decisions.
 
googleplex said:
No its not the End. Hence this thread we're all participating in. They have the right to do what they want with their IP but also people have the right to criticize their decision.

Like I said Miyamoto is just a weird dude. Frankly he seems a bit backwards to me. Nintendo as a whole would be better off his they stop letting him make a lot of these decisions.
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"What I think is the only right way, and anyone who disagrees with me is backward or sexist."
 
Just a question, I understand perfectly that this is an important matter for someone, but every zelda thread in the foreseeable future will revert around the "link should be female" no matter what? Just asking.

BTW gimme a Midna game dammit.
 
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