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[James Scott]

I think it's kind of funny that the only reason Link has been chosen as the "make him a woman/gender options" is because fans say:
"There's nothing in the lore stopping him from being female"
But then the creator of the lore says there is.
While Nintendo did intend for Link to be an avatar character, it's pretty clear than since then they've wanted him to be an actual character as well and they've made a conscious decision to make his design appeal to both men and women and they surround Link with a large cast of female characters so it's not really a franchise that suffers from lack of diversity nor objectification of women.
I don't think Miyamoto would mention a game idea twice if not for him being pretty sure it'll happen, so the feedback will likely result in a potentially cool spin off featuring Sheik as well as Hyrule Warriors.

 

[Captain Europe]

I'd like it for Zelda to be a playable hero too, just like Peach in SM3DW.

 

[Oppo]

I wonder - this might seem smartass but I'm being sincere here - what would happen if Link stayed the same design but had the option of identifying as male or female? pronoun selection basically?

 

[Platy]

Blond. White. Male. Usually uses a green tunic. Sword. Shield. Long Ears.

While there are small deviations inside the series (ALttP with pink haired Link), thinking about Link does invoke the image of a defined character.

So you are saying he is Blond, White, Male, uses a green tunic, has Sword, Shield and Long ears.... except for the times where he does not have those ?


I don't know but "bearer of the triforce of courage", main protagonist and more likely to use the master sword or some variation fits better with me. New game he does not wear green, ALttP he has pink hair, sometimes he a Goron (a race without 2 sexes as far as we know), a rabbit, a wolf, a deku, a zora and a 2d painting all gets far from your definitions of Link.

As some people mentioned in the other thread, he was even a FAIRY in Legend of Zelda 2 ! and Fairies are tipicaly women in the Zelda Series ... so not even MALE counts even if you count Gorons as male

 

[Mango The Magician]

You know, most people change at least slightly over the course of two years. To see the same level of vitriol and outright name calling with people trying to imply or directly implying that those against this are sexist, all over this silly topic from two years ago still going strong says a lot about how bad off we are as a species.

 

[Broken Joystick]

I hope they call the Shiek spin-off: The Legend of Zelda

 

[Manmademan]

Just have Zelda get her own game. Let her be a warrior princess or something like that.

The Legend of Zelda. In which she finally does all the shit on her own.

I got you fam

 

[sphinx]

I'd really prefer a Ganondorf spin-off to a Sheik one.

hell, I'd prefer an Impa spin-off

 

[Oblivion]

Great. Can we finally put this issue to bed now?

 

[DecoReturns]

Give me a Tetra game

 

[Nudull]

So much for Zelda being the hero in the franchise she's named after, let alone a female Link.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

We know that ... which is why we are asking for a FEMALE REINCARNATION OF LINK, THE OWNER OF THE TRIFORCE not Zelda as the protagonist

Put it to rest. To Nintendo, Link is a male character and they will not change that, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

So you are saying he is Blond, White, Male, uses a green tunic, has Sword, Shield and Long ears.... except for the times where he does not have those ?


I don't know but "bearer of the triforce of courage", main protagonist and more likely to use the master sword or some variation fits better with me. New game he does not wear green, ALttP he has pink hair, sometimes he a Goron (a race without 2 sexes as far as we know), a rabbit, a wolf, a deku, a zora and a 2d painting all gets far from your definitions of Link.

As some people mentioned in the other thread, he was even a FAIRY in Legend of Zelda 2 ! and Fairies are tipicaly women in the Zelda Series ... so not even MALE counts even if you count Gorons as male

I'm not sure where you're going with your line of posting, but he will always be a male. He'll always be a young-ish light skinned, blond haired boy, with pointy ears who wears a green hat and tunic. You can claim he's an avatar as much as you won't, but that doesn't change the fact he has a distinct look that will always be that way

 

[Cheerilee]

I like how Terry Pratchett wrote a popular book series about a girl saving the prince. Although it's a shame that sort of thing has to come from a satirist.

It's a shame that Nintendo is so rigidly inflexible that they refuse to even consider letting a girl be the hero. Girls can't be Link (because of super-important story rules Nintendo pulls out of their ass), and Zelda can't even be the hero of a game called "the Legend of Zelda".

It's just a shame. But hey, Nintendo is more progressive than most. Look at Super Princess Peach. Or Linkle. If we're really lucky, Zelda might be able to host her own second-class game if she dresses like a man.

 

[Richie]

So much for Zelda being the hero in the franchise she's named after, let alone a female Link.

This got me to think Kid Icarus is known in Japan as Light Mythology: Palutena's Mirror but it was only with Uprising that Palu actually got a substantial role in the game.

 

[crisdecuba]

We know that ... which is why we are asking for a FEMALE REINCARNATION OF LINK, THE OWNER OF THE TRIFORCE not Zelda as the protagonist

And he's basically saying, "Nope."

 

[GloriousBagel]

I like how Terry Pratchett wrote a popular book series about a girl saving the prince. Although it's a shame that sort of thing has to come from a satirist.

It's a shame that Nintendo is so rigidly inflexible that they refuse to even consider letting a girl be the hero. Girls can't be Link (because of super-important story rules Nintendo pulls out of their ass), and Zelda can't even be the hero of a game called "the Legend of Zelda".

It's just a shame. But hey, Nintendo is more progressive than most. Look at Super Princess Peach. Or Linkle. If we're really lucky, Zelda might be able to host her own second-class game if she dresses like a man.

Why do you think the franchise is called The Legend of Zelda?


Would love to play a new subseries on the origins of the Shiekah and Impa

 

[Tadpole]

I'm ok with this. Would support a spin-off with female lead.

 

[Mango The Magician]

I like how Terry Pratchett wrote a popular book series about a girl saving the prince. Although it's a shame that sort of thing has to come from a satirist.

It's a shame that Nintendo is so rigidly inflexible that they refuse to even consider letting a girl be the hero. Girls can't be Link (because of super-important story rules Nintendo pulls out of their ass), and Zelda can't even be the hero of a game called "the Legend of Zelda".

It's just a shame. But hey, Nintendo is more progressive than most. Look at Super Princess Peach. Or Linkle. If we're really lucky, Zelda might be able to host her own second-class game if she dresses like a man.

Yeah how dare a company decide what they do with their own characters. Damn them! Arrr....

I'm not sure where you're going with your line of posting, but he will always be a male. He'll always be a young-ish light skinned, blond haired boy, with pointy ears who wears a green hat and tunic. You can claim he's an avatar as much as you won't, but that doesn't change the fact he has a distinct look that will always be that way

Hey there, as someone who argued this stupid argument too many times on this site before in the past. It's not worth arguing it here. Any difference between Link in any game is somehow proof that he can change his gender in this argument, which is hysterical considering how Samus can go from being 6 feet and 3 inches to under six feet canonically and no one bats an eye. Just like how Mario's eyes and mustache colors fluctuate over and over. The argument over a female Link is silly and it's held together by glued pop sickle sticks and settle on a foundation of wet play-doh.

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

I mean it would be deluded to expect anything else.

Mario isn't going to be a female either.

 

[Chezzymann]

So you are saying he is Blond, White, Male, uses a green tunic, has Sword, Shield and Long ears.... except for the times where he does not have those ?


I don't know but "bearer of the triforce of courage", main protagonist and more likely to use the master sword or some variation fits better with me. New game he does not wear green, ALttP he has pink hair, sometimes he a Goron (a race without 2 sexes as far as we know), a rabbit, a wolf, a deku, a zora and a 2d painting all gets far from your definitions of Link.

As some people mentioned in the other thread, he was even a FAIRY in Legend of Zelda 2 ! and Fairies are tipicaly women in the Zelda Series ... so not even MALE counts even if you count Gorons as male

In the trailer you can clearly see that he eventually gets the green tunic in BOTW. In most 3D games he doesn't start out with it initially but gets it later down the line at some point. And all those other forms are temporary incarnations for gameplay purposes. I think its pretty obvious what the default 'link' image is and the developers don't really want that to change. Yeah, it would be nice to have a female option or variations in other ways but the developers clearly have an image of "link" in their heads that they want to be the main character for each game. At least the series has plenty of female characters.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I like how Terry Pratchett wrote a popular book series about a girl saving the prince. Although it's a shame that sort of thing has to come from a satirist.

It's a shame that Nintendo is so rigidly inflexible that they refuse to even consider letting a girl be the hero. Girls can't be Link (because of super-important story rules Nintendo pulls out of their ass), and Zelda can't even be the hero of a game called "the Legend of Zelda".

It's just a shame. But hey, Nintendo is more progressive than most. Look at Super Princess Peach. Or Linkle. If we're really lucky, Zelda might be able to host her own second-class game if she dresses like a man.

Zelda fans sure know how to lay the indignation and melodrama on thick lol

 

[Nickle]

I've always wanted a Zelda/Link game where you can switch between the two at a moments notice, although the same would work with Zelda/Shiek. It would be cool if you could get an item and use it 2 different ways depending on who you are currently playing as. For example, Link's Hookshot would be the classic hookshot, but Zelda's hookshot could create a tightrope between you and the target.

 

[TreIII]

Fine by me. Until the day comes that Link is entirely jettisoned and we can just make our own avatars, let things stay the way they are.

Definitely looking forward to that Sheik/Zelda game, though.

 

[Bobs Big Boy]

Why the fuck do you care if you're playing a gal or a man? It's a god damn fantasy, let people make what they want.

Zelda and Sonic have the weirdest fanbases.

 

[Richie]

It's just a shame. But hey, Nintendo is more progressive than most. Look at Super Princess Peach. Or Linkle. If we're really lucky, Zelda might be able to host her own second-class game if she dresses like a man.

Linkle's game, Hyrule Warriors, is cramming with ladies that kick major ass, though, result of the Zelda series as a whole having many a memorable woman in its ranks.

In an era where we're thankfully stopping to think certain things HAVE to be reminiscent of a determinate gender, where we're starting to accept dolls and monster trucks as toys for kids period, instead of making a distinction with boys and girls, I wonder how long it'll take for us to see Sheik's design and accept it as a woman's. By saying she looks like a man, are we not giving further strength to stereotypes we despise? What has to be so inherently masculine about dressing the way Sheik does, and what has to be so inherently feminine about the way Zelda usually dresses? The sooner we see Zelda's Sheik disguise more in terms of it looking, say, "ninjaish", as opposed to insist it's something inherently manly, the sooner we can smash outdated notions of things -having- to belong to one gender of the other, and move forward.

 

[Captain Europe]

I like how Terry Pratchett wrote a popular book series about a girl saving the prince. Although it's a shame that sort of thing has to come from a satirist.

It's a shame that Nintendo is so rigidly inflexible that they refuse to even consider letting a girl be the hero. Girls can't be Link (because of super-important story rules Nintendo pulls out of their ass), and Zelda can't even be the hero of a game called "the Legend of Zelda".

It's just a shame. But hey, Nintendo is more progressive than most. Look at Super Princess Peach. Or Linkle. If we're really lucky, Zelda might be able to host her own second-class game if she dresses like a man.

There are Nintendo game with female heroes(Peach, Samus, Fire Emblem).

Zelda should be playable tho, it worked just fine in Hyrule Warriors, it was pretty awesome.

 

[Oersted]

Why the fuck do you care if you're playing a gal or a man? It's a god damn fantasy, let people make what they want.

Zelda and Sonic have the weirdest fanbases.

I love "It is just a game, SO FUCK OFF!" sentiments. Always makes it look like it is more than a game, or in your case more than just a fantasy.

 

[Pinky]

Fine by me. Playing a mainline Zelda with a character other than Link would feel like playing a mainline Mario without Mario.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

This is definitely anecdotal, but all the female Zelda fans I've known in real life never hated the series because or resented it because Link was a man. I've been told by them that they like Link as a male character and never once wanted a female Link.

I just don't get the uprising against Nintendo on this one. There are dozens of multimillion selling game series that introduce new playable characters all the time and all of them are male characters. Yes there are some female character games, but even those games have their flaws with how they handle them.

I don't get why people are so up in arms with Nintendo for not making Link a female. Yeah he is a reincarnation of the original MALE hero, but to reincarnate that hero would just make that a mans spirit trapped in a female a body, which would lead to a lot more backlash in my opinion. (The last couple sentences are not meant to be taken seriously).

Long story short; there are bigger fish to fry. Link is a male according to the series creator. Move along.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

So basically it'll happen when Miyamoto retires.

 

[Captain Europe]

Fine by me. Playing a mainline Zelda with a character other than Link would feel like playing a mainline Mario without Mario.

The only mainline Mario games you can only play as Mario are SM64 and SMS .

 

[UnemployedVillain]

Linkle's game, Hyrule Warriors, is cramming with ladies that kick major ass, though, result of the Zelda series as a whole having many a memorable woman in its ranks.

In an era where we're thankfully stopping to think certain things HAVE to be reminiscent of a determinate gender, where we're starting to accept dolls and monster trucks as toys for kids period, instead of making a distinction with boys and girls, I wonder how long it'll take for us to see Sheik's design and accept it as a woman's. By saying she looks like a man, are we not giving further strength to stereotypes we despise? What has to be so inherently masculine about dressing the way Sheik does, and what has to be so inherently feminine about the way Zelda usually dresses? The sooner we see Zelda's Sheik disguise more in terms of it looking, say, "ninjaish", as opposed to insist it's something inherently manly, the sooner we can smash outdated notions of things -having- to belong to one gender of the other, and move forward.

She wasn't feminine. Doesn't count! I love the irony of people pushing for more women as main characters posting blatantly laughable things like that.

Imagine the backlash of people saying an effeminate male character doesn't count as a male because he could be mistaken for a woman

 

[Spring-Loaded]

First, Aonuma and Miyamoto's statements are always pretty different since the former tries to be very diplomatic in his answers, while the latter don't really care about that. While Aonuma has a lot of liberties with the franchises nowadays, he still follows a structure defined years ago by Miyamoto (for better and for worse, but BotW doesn't make too many people complain). There's no point in trying to read between lines with those two when it concerns the main series.

Second, you missed my point for spin-offs being games just like mainline ones are games as well. You're mixing the quality with the genre of the games. Hyrule Warriors and Triforce Heroes are both good games but in different genres from the main series, of course it'll appeal to different people. Super Princess Peach was an average game in the same genre, while Wario/Yoshi were good and successful games in the same genre as well. Guess which ones became their own franchise? It's also not a matter of Peach being a girl, with other Nintendo franchises becoming more female-oriented.

It's not a matter of seeing spinoff sales before trying something in the main franchise, it's the matter of the main franchise being popular and respected for many, many years, and arguably not needing a sales boost. Can easily be compared to Metroid (for example), taking more risks over the years for not selling as well as it should. The new Zelda is not evolving that much as being a classical Zelda game made with modern techniques and game systems. Those third party games you're talking about also didn't invent those elements.

Again, as we've talked about in a different thread, that's their choice, and not every game need a creator or character selection. For them, the main developers of this franchise, the main games, are about Link being the Hero of whatever (time/wind/etc), Zelda being the princess of the Kingdom, and an incredible foe (usually Ganondorf) having to be defeated. There's variations of course, but in terms of settings, this is the Legend of Zelda, not something else, just like the main games will always be action/adventure games (not RPGs) despite the small feature changes.

Even if they are technically or theorically different, Link is now an established character in the casual public's eye. Same for Mario.
On the other hand, Nintendo still pushes for more diversity in their other games. It's really not hard to comprehend why they want some of their franchises to stay the same, since they have other games and other genres to appeal to everyone.

Implication doesn't require intent. What makes you think it does?

If someone wanted to play as Zelda in a Zelda game, they now have Hyrule Warriors which doesn't play like a Zelda game. Seems you're actually missing the point that someone who wanted Zelda playable in a Zelda game will not be appeased by getting Zelda in a spinoff. If it's a different genre — in that it plays completely different and, in Zelda's case, will not tie into the story of the mainline series — it's essentially a different series. Does that make sense?

And about the main character of the series: developers having freedom to make choices doesn't absolve those choices of being met with criticism. If the creators give bad reasoning, people will call them out on that (and Aonuma's reasons were indisputably bad). If they say the series is about Link and that Link is an established, defined character, then people are within their right to make well-founded observations about the way that character's been portrayed, compare those comments to others made (since the beginning of the series and within the last decade), and so forth.

I ask again: Why is the gender of the main character seen as a big risk? Or as risky as Metroid: Other M's narrative and perspective shift? How in the world are the gameplay systems in BotW less of a risk than a girl Link option, or having Zelda be playable within the existing Zelda template (or just within BotW's template)? You speak as if Nintendo isn't interested in augmenting sales, that having a girl Link option where/when feasible is any more "evolutionary," compared to everything shown of BotW during E3, and that there exists a line between all the new things added to the series with BotW and having a separate character model for Link. None of that makes sense, and you're purporting that it's all a given.

 

[Captain Europe]

I don't get why people are so up in arms with Nintendo for not making Link a female. Yeah he is a reincarnation of the original MALE hero, but to reincarnate that hero would just make that a mans spirit trapped in a female a body, which would lead to a lot more backlash in my opinion. (The last couple sentences are not meant to be taken seriously).

Long story short; there are bigger fish to fry. Link is a male according to the series creator. Move along.

There's absolutely no reason for the spirit to have a gender.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

She wasn't feminine. Doesn't count! I love the irony of people pushing for more women as main characters posting blatantly laughable things like that

Let's not argue the feminine or masculine characteristics of characters in an n64 game. Even adult Zelda in a dress looked like a man.

 

[Oersted]

This is definitely anecdotal, but all the female Zelda fans I've known in real life never hated the series because or resented it because Link was a man. I've been told by them that they like Link as a male character and never once wanted a female Link.

I just don't get the uprising against Nintendo on this one. There are dozens of multimillion selling game series that introduce new playable characters all the time and all of them are male characters. Yes there are some female character games, but even those games have their flaws with how they handle them.

I don't get why people are so up in arms with Nintendo for not making Link a female. Yeah he is a reincarnation of the original MALE hero, but to reincarnate that hero would just make that a mans spirit trapped in a female a body, which would lead to a lot more backlash in my opinion. (The last couple sentences are not meant to be taken seriously).

Long story short; there are bigger fish to fry. Link is a male according to the series creator. Move along.

Whataboutism is a disingenious way of arguing. Some people want more. Thats about it.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

There's absolutely no reason for the spirit to have a gender.

The reason is that Nintendo wants it to be. Get over it. There's no reason for the spirit to always reincarnate in a person who looks 99% the same and with the same name over a dozen times over hundreds of years, but I don't see you complaining about that

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

There's absolutely no reason for the spirit to have a gender.

My understanding is at the end of Skyward Sword Demise cursed THAT Link to be the hero reincarnated. Fi told THAT Link that whenever he needed her again, she will be waiting. THAT Link was a male.

 

[AgeEighty]

My problem with this is that you've assumed that's how the reincarnation of Zelda works when the evidence in the games says otherwise. Art style differences aside Link looks roughly the same everytime he reincarnates so the general idea of reincarnation doesn't work here. There has to be something special about it. Not to mention Link imo, is very clearly a character and not an avatar. Like you said with James Bond. That is who he is and you wouldn't change it. Link is still Link and always has been.

Most of the Links are different people. They are ancestors/descendents of one another. This is explicitly spelled out in the games. They are not the same person. Nor have they all looked exactly the same: they're strikingly similar, but there are differences. The only exception has been games that explicitly feature the same Links as previous games, including Zelda II, Link's Awakening, and Majora's Mask (and possibly BotW based on what little we've seen).

That being the case, I see no reason why one of those descendents can't be a woman. The bloodline is what's important, not the gender.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Fine by me. Playing a mainline Zelda with a character other than Link would feel like playing a mainline Mario without Mario.

What if you had a choice to play as a different character, like Luigi, Peach or Toad?

 

[Cheerilee]

Why do you think the franchise is called The Legend of Zelda?

Because Miyamoto thought that Zelda Fitzgerald's name sounded nice.

Then he decided to make her his damsel in distress. Then he decided to make Peter Pan the hero. Then he decided to name his Peter Pan "Link" because he was an avatar, a Link between the player and the world Miyamoto was creating.

Nothing about that says that the avatar must be male (although he has clearly become male, but he can become other things), and nothing about "Zelda's name is nice so I'm going to give her the title" means that she has to remain a damsel in distress.

Yeah how dare a company decide what they do with their own characters. Damn them! Arrr....

I never damned them or said anything about their right to make games, I said that it's a shame that they're continuing to perpetuate stereotypes instead of using a fraction of their tremendous influence to try to make the world a more inclusive place.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

It's amazing that they seem to not understand that Link can still be the MC just with the option to play as male or female.
Shame seeing so many people put down other for wanting that option. Hopefully like the industry, they grow up.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

Whataboutism is a disingenious way of arguing. Some people want more. Thats about it.

If Link being a male is ruining people's enjoyment of the game or series, then maybe they should move to a different game series.

Im not trying to sound like a jerk, but it seems to me that the people wanting a female Libk are being completely irrational. Creator of the series says Link is a man. Will always be a man. No point in arguing it anymore. Just accept that and try to not be offended.

 

[……forgetit]

Most of the Links are different people. They are ancestors/descendents of one another. This is explicitly spelled out in the games. They are not the same person. Nor have they all looked exactly the same: they're strikingly similar, but there are differences. The only exception has been games that explicitly feature the same Links as previous games, including Zelda II, Link's Awakening, and Majora's Mask (and possibly BotW based on what little we've seen).

That being the case, I see no reason why one of those descendents can't be a woman. The bloodline is what's important, not the gender.

I mean, we say the gender isn't important, but Nintendo seems to think so. That said lore or no lore Nintendo could switch the zelda protagonists gender any time they want to, they just have to want too.

 

[dragonzdogma]

Has anyone stopped for one second and ask, why do we want a link to be a female character. I've not seen anyone explain why that is a good reason?

It's as bizarre as wanting a male lead on the next tombraider.

 

[SNIKT!]

I don't really care one way or the other. I'd be cool either way. But, the man has spoken. If you don't like the decision, don't buy the future games. I'm just over here daydreaming about a platinum games developed spin off game with Princess Zelda as the main character.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

What if you had a choice to play as a different character, like Luigi, Peach or Toad?

Then you would have a compromised game that isn't as good as the ones before it.

 

[Mango The Magician]

There's absolutely no reason for the spirit to have a gender.

There's no reason any character ever couldn't be genderswapped via "magic" other than, that's how they want the character to stay. Get over it.

I never damned them or said anything about their right to make games, I said that it's a shame that they're continuing to perpetuate stereotypes instead of using a fraction of their tremendous influence to try to make the world a more inclusive place.

...and it's not their responsibility to fix that problem, and even if they did it wouldn't require that they change Link.

The Zelda series has a shitload of female fans, and the majority of the characters in the series are female, there's no issue here that needs to be solved.

 

[Pinky]

The only mainline Mario games you can only play as Mario are SM64 and SMS .

What if you had a choice to play as a different character, like Luigi, Peach or Toad?

Yeah, I guess that was a bad example.