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[pgtl_10]

Quite funny to see it play out over and over again with even more ramped up rhetoric.

People seem to be not aware but those voters that voted for Ron Paul are probably the same ones that vote for Bernie/Trump now.

I think the Iraq war/September 11 had an enormous effect on the public's psyche. Coupled that with the housing bubble, rising student debt, and Congressional deadlock, people are now feeling the country is heading in the wrong direction. Whether this perception is reality is irrelevant. It is a perception that needs to be addressed. That's why Obama ran on hope and change. He was trying to tap into this frustrated base of young and now entering middle aged voters.

The previous generation saw the end of the Soviet Union and the first Gulf War. They were told NAFTA would make their lives better and new college educated would develop. Capitalism makes everyone richer. Buying a home is the American dream. This led to a heavy dose of nationalism, increase college attendance, a housing boom/bad lending, and warring against weaker entities.

September 11 was the first blow. How could the strongest nation attacked? No one should be able to attack us! First myth shattered.

The Iraq war was the second myth. Americans have a G.I. Joe image of how the world perceived them. We are not invading Iraq. We are liberating Iraq! It turns out people in other countries can resist and chaos can ensue. People don't greet invaders with flowers. They greeted us with bullets, bombs, and most of all resentment. The everyone loves us myth was shattered.

The housing bubble caused the everyone buy a house myth to shatter. Borrow against your house. Buy property! Lenders gave loans to just about anyone. The bubble crashed and what did government do? Bailout bankers who made bad loans. The buy a house/it's the American dream myth destroyed.

The previous generation told this generation go to college and you get a good job. Millennials did and faced a huge debt burden because states cut back on funding along with increase demand. The young graduates are struggling to find work that is comparable to what they are told. Their combine debt burden is enormous. Now they are being told to fend for themselves by the same generation who told them to go to college in the first place. Once again a myth gone.

Whether you believe these are myths is irrelevant. Perception is greater than reality. There is a group of people who feel they got the wrong end of life or hustled into buying into the above things. Now they are steadily becoming a bigger bloc. We need to confront this bloc. Rather than arrogantly dismissing. No tolerance for racism but that doesn't mean there are no legitimate issues that can be addressed. Right now the establishment is not getting this message.

 

[Aaronrules380]

People save their money in banks because banks are mostly stable. Low risk, low reward investment -- and yes, saving is investment (because you're loaning your money to a bank, and the bank pays interest on it!) Anything tied to the stock market right now is liable to end up taking pretty nasty hits when the investments are reinvested overseas and THOSE countries' stock markets take nasty hits. Consider China, for instance. If your investment portfolio has stock in a company that is investing in Chinese manufacturing or construction, failure over there could spell failure over here. That's what happened relatively recently, when China's consumer stock market dipped hard, bringing the global stock market with it.

Smart money is on safe money, and saving enough such that the interest can pay your way. This becomes a little less efficient when interest rates are low, like they are in the US right this moment, but when they're back to normal, 1~2% returns on specialized accounts work very well.

I'm aware. But statistically over long periods of time the stock market is trending upwards. And banks are stable, but the interest rates are ALWAYS lower than inflation so no matter what you're effectively always going to lose money when you save through a bank. Yes you can lose on the stock market, by managing a diverse portfolio you'll almost always end up making money in the long term

 

[Crosseyes]

In theory it's not a bad thing, but if you're a working class individual already having a hard time and all the rules for the increasingly globalizing economy are written by politicians who mostly just care about the bribes they got from the very companies that can't wait to fuck you over then you might think differently.

I'm not part of that demographic. But I understand why people who are might feel the way they do.

I definetly agree with this post on how while turning to Trump is inexcusable it's understandable as more than just racist sexists all along.

I spent 4 years getting a bachelor's in engineering and in the job market now I'm stuck with a job barely paying out 40k. I luckily live in a favorable cost of living area but I could totally see how people living in certain situations places 40k would be desperation level with tens of thousands of student debt about to be coming due like my payments will be starting this year when you were told in school you were set if you could make it.

Im behind Bernie but Hillary is a compromise more desperate people near my situation may not be willing to make even with the racism and sexism. People are willing to turn the other way for a lot worse for less desperate situations.

 

[damisa]

Why won't the Hillary voters vote for Bernie now in the primaries? I just don't get this. I understand choosing Hillary over Trump in the general. But I'm just so baffled as to why the voters in these primaries are choosing Hillary over Bernie. These are the same people who chose Obama over Hillary in 2008!

Because we want the better candidate?
Because we want someone who doesn't demonize 2 things which are both good for America:
Wall Street and Trade Deals*
Because we want someone who is knowledgeable on foreign policy
Because we want someone who won't massively increase our taxes
Because we want someone who won't replace the healthcare we are happy** with, with a government plan of unknown quality
Because we think she is more electable
Because we don't think increasing taxes to pay for "free" college for everyone is a good idea (some people will be better off going into trades or another career path)

*You can be for regulating both without demonizing them or getting rid of them completely
*2/3 of Americans like their current health care plans

 

[Azzanadra]

In that situation, I would just right-in Bernie fully knowing I had wasted my vote, but still exercised my right to vote. If you asked me a few weeks ago, I would have begrudgingly voted Hillary if it came to it... but after her antics this past few week and re-watching The Wire, I cannot in good faith vote her in.

What did Geralt say? Something along the lines of "If I had to choose between one evil or another, I rather not choose at all."

 

[Dominican Power]

Bernie supporters are turning me off to Bernie.

 

[Tesseract]

 

[Gordon Shumway]

They must have read my post.

Bad ass..

Bernie supporters are turning me off to Bernie.

VOTE TRUMP!

 

[hawk2025]

In that situation, I would just right-in Bernie fully knowing I had wasted my vote, but still exercised my right to vote. If you asked me a few weeks ago, I would have begrudgingly voted Hillary if it came to it... but after her antics this past few week and re-watching The Wire, I cannot in good faith vote her in.

What did Geralt say? Something along the lines of "If I had to choose between one evil or another, I rather not choose at all."

Yes, we should all vote based on quests from The Witcher.

 

[ebullientprism]

I am genuinely not surprised at this. A lot of Sanders supporters share an intense dislike of "the establishment" and if reddit is something to go by a lot of them also share a distrust of minorities with Trump fans. Walk into any thread about why Sanders isnt making headway with minorities and you will see a shocking amount of racism.

As an outsider, this is probably the most fascinating election I know of.

 

[lastflowers]

Whether you believe these are myths is irrelevant. Perception is greater than reality. There is a group of people who feel they got the wrong end of life or hustled into buying into the above things. Now they are steadily becoming a bigger bloc. We need to confront this bloc. Rather than arrogantly dismissing. No tolerance for racism but that doesn't mean there are no legitimate issues that can be addressed. Right now the establishment is not getting this message.

this is what I've been saying for a while, but it seems many seem to ignore it. Your post put it more eloquently than I ever could!

 

[Y2Kev]

Mario once said, "hello princess." He was talking about Hillary years before she was queen. You should heed this sound advice.

 

[Poodlestrike]

If not Bernie, then Trump voters are, essentially operating off an anti-establishment platform. Now, while there are problems with the existing status quo, the kind of people who make it their main issue are really just "both parties are the same" guys using coded language.

And as we all know, "both parties are the same" is itself coded language. It's code for "I am too privileged, ill-informed, and outright fucking stupid to come up with an opinion worth listening to, but will continue on wasting better people's oxygen and electricity spouting my garbage because I am just that much of a waste of space."

 

[Earthstrike]

I don't think I can. Not because of the policy he talks about. That all sounds good to passable to me. I don't give a shit about a wall. They won't make you climb it if you migrate legally.

It's the violence he inspires in others that makes it presumably impossible for me to give him my vote.

Last debate trump said he would enact protectionism for american jobs. He proposed Tariffs on imports. He then tried to say that was a threat, but it's not really a threat if you say it's a threat. Hopefully it's easy to pick up on the doublespeak.

You want to avoid war in Iran? Good, the nuclear deal we have is a good start. Anyone who wants to rip it up and pursue an alternative path is more likely to start a war. Trump does not like the iran nuclear deal. Also, as a general rule of thumb, republicans are more prone to using war as a means of getting what they want, (or in rather rare, disappointing cases, pursuing an ideological war, like in Iraq) where as democrats tend to use economic sanctions.

Campaign finance reform. It is very reasonable to believe democrats would do this since it benefits them. Unlimited finance from businesses detracts from the party's platform since liberalism opposes rent extraction, and businesses which engage in it, must very much so lobby the government to protect their racket. Every time democrats do this, they look bad, but republicans don't since their base doesn't give a shit and is sometimes pro-richgettingricher.

You absolutely could not be more wrong in stating trump will achieve those three goals you've outlined earlier.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Mario once said, "hello princess." He was talking about Hillary years before she was queen. You should heed this sound advice.

lol..

 

[Azzanadra]

Yes, we should all vote based on quests from The Witcher.

No, but the very real and depressing state of America as presented in The Wire is in partial due to establishment puppets like Hillary. Not saying Bernie is going to solve everything, but he at the very least is willing to acknowledge the problem and try- whereas Hillary is more concerned about the special interests and 1%ers than the poor and heck, even the comment man.

 

[RootCause]

Not entirely shocking. I mean, have you seen how Hillary supporters talk down to the Bernie supporters? Sheesh!!

Here's hoping this scenario doesn't become reality.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Bernie supporters are turning me off to Bernie.

That's fine, the Hillary supporters who openly claim Bernie supporters are all sexist have turned me off to Hillary in a big way.

 

[hawk2025]

No, but the very real and depressing state of America as presented in The Wire is in partial due to establishment puppets like Hillary. Not saying Bernie is going to solve everything, but he at the very least is willing to acknowledge the problem and try- whereas Hillary is more concerned about the special interests and 1%ers than the poor and heck, even the comment man.

You are obviously in stump-speech mode based on zero facts, so I can't add anything to it.

Happy ploughing, I suppose. I hope accepting terrible election outcomes works out better for the US than it did for Poland.

 

[Azerare]

Not entirely shocking. I mean, have you seen how Hillary supporters talk down to the Bernie supporters? Sheesh!!

Here's hoping this scenario doesn't become reality.

There is some truth in that statement as well. I've seen it here on gaf a few times.

 

[Spectromixer]

Sadly, I know a couple of these people.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

22 years ago, Mr. Saturn told me "BOING"

I took this to mean "remain flexible in your political stance, my lad."


It would be great if Sanders to Trump people turn out to be just a lot of hot air but I never underestimate how badly misinformed a significant population of the electorate can be.

 

[Y2Kev]

As the wise sage Shinji Ikari once said, "I can't....," which we all know was in reference to voting for Hillary in 2016 in America. But in the end, he turns into goo and eventually does vote for Hillary and becomes okay with it. Then everyone claps and says "congratulations" and the show ends. This is a moral we all should hold close to our hearts.

 

[Cranster]

Anyone who votes for Trump is an idiot as far as I'm concerned. Hillary Clinton regardless of what you believe is far more suited for the office of President than anyone the GOP offers.

 

[Earthstrike]

There is some truth in that statement as well. I've seen it here on gaf a few times.

Reminds me of when Obama supporters correctly talked down to those hilary supporters who were going to vote republican instead of vote for Obama.

And they should of. Having an opinion doesn't grant you immunity from having your ignorant bullshit called out.

 

[jtb]

Whether you believe these are myths is irrelevant. Perception is greater than reality. There is a group of people who feel they got the wrong end of life or hustled into buying into the above things. Now they are steadily becoming a bigger bloc. We need to confront this bloc. Rather than arrogantly dismissing. No tolerance for racism but that doesn't mean there are no legitimate issues that can be addressed. Right now the establishment is not getting this message.

what? who is the establishment in this scenario?

 

[CharminUltra]

After tomorrow:

"That's odd. Why is /r/sandersforpresident taking me to /r/trumpforpresident..."

I keed I keed

 

[Azerare]

Reminds me of when Obama supporters correctly talked down to those hilary supporters who were going to vote republican instead of vote for Obama.

And they should of. Having an opinion doesn't grant you immunity from having your ignorant bullshit called out.

Civility and condescending are two different things though. I have yet to meet someone that enjoys being talked down to and walks away thinking "They're totally right about me and my views, i'll go correct them now". If you can do it in a respectable manner and forum results may be better.

Honestly i feel its the supporters that tarnish a candidates name.

 

[KingSnake]

Anyone who has this attitude doesn't really understand neither politics nor economy. Or has no idea why he supports Sanders. There's so little overlap between the policies of the two that it needs a great disconnect from reality to do this switch.

 

[Box of Kittens]

Will some percentage of Sanders supporters vote for Trump over Clinton? Sure. Will it be a significant percentage? Not likely. The PUMAs made a lot of noise in 2008 about how Clinton supporters would abandon Obama en masse after a very acrimonious primary, and it didn't happen.

I think the Sanders-or-Trump voters seem like a larger group than they actually are for two reasons. The first is that the number of people who say they won't vote for the rival primary candidate in the general is often significantly higher than it actually is (see 2008), and also the people who genuinely find both Sanders and Trump appealing are overrepresented on internet forums.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

As the wise sage Shinji Ikari once said, "I can't....," which we all know was in reference to voting for Hillary in 2016 in America. But in the end, he turns into goo and eventually does vote for Hillary and becomes okay with it. Then everyone claps and says "congratulations" and the show ends. This is a moral we all should hold close to our hearts.

lol. MORE!

 

[To Far Away Times]

Which obviously makes the candidate that wants to invade Iraq and Syria to take their oil, blackmail Mexico and start a trade war with China the obvious alternative. Obviously.

Hmmm. Pretty sure this is already one of Hillary's "accomplishments", not Trump's.

I don't like Trump on bit, but its disingenuous to credit War on Iraq to Trump when discussing Hillary.

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I'm all for Bernie, but damn these voters are scewy and really don't have a clue about the candidates and party lines representation mean or even care to just switch like that and that is frightening.

 

[Eidan]

Not entirely shocking. I mean, have you seen how Hillary supporters talk down to the Bernie supporters? Sheesh!!

Here's hoping this scenario doesn't become reality.

No, I'd say "entirely shocking", and would go so far as to say anyone who truly supports Sanders' candidacy and the policies along with it, who is also willing to vote for Donald Trump, is an out and out moron.

 

[TyrantII]

Meanwhile, in non-crazy person land:
http://m.dailykos.com/stories/1501112

onald Trump unites the disparate Democratic coalition like no one else does.

In a hypothetical Clinton v. Trump contest in November, voters under 35 would choose Clinton by a crushing 52%-19%, a preference that crosses demographic lines. Among whites, she'd be backed by nearly 2-1, 45%-26%. Among Hispanics, by more than 4-1, 61%-14%. Among Asian Americans, by 5-1, 60%-11%. Among African Americans, by 13-1, 67%-5%.

For context, Barack Obama won voters age 18 to 29 by a 60-40 margin, and those age 30 to 44 by a 52-48 margin in 2012.

The poll is clear—Bernie Sanders’ lead versus Hillary Clinton among young voters is huge, 54-37. But the idea that young voters will sit out a general without Sanders is as ridiculous as saying that Clinton’s black or Latino or older supporters would sit out the general without their candidate.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

As the wise sage Shinji Ikari once said, "I can't....," which we all know was in reference to voting for Hillary in 2016 in America. But in the end, he turns into goo and eventually does vote for Hillary and becomes okay with it. Then everyone claps and says "congratulations" and the show ends. This is a moral we all should hold close to our hearts.

Are you pretending that there isn't End of Hillary and Rebuild of Hillary?

 

[Black Republican]

There were 2 Ohio registered dem steel workers who where voting for trump. Wouldn't vote clinton ever they said on msnbc

 

[RootCause]

I'm all for Bernie, but damn these voters are scewy and really don't have a clue about the candidates and party lines representation mean or even care to just switch like that and that is frightening.

People do all sorts of things out of spite.

 

[USC-fan]

Yeah i talk to a lot of people that feel this way.

Clinton seem brought by big money. I dont see anyway i can vote for her.

I just hope sanders wins so i dont even have to worry about it.

 

[WedgeX]

If I see some data I'll believe this is a problem. Even worse than the gaffers who would've jumped from Hillary to Bloomberg. It's real stupid to even consider jumping from Bernie to Trump. Polar opposites.

 

[Kathian]

What people don't get is we keep talking establishment but really there is a feeling of corruption and the people at the top helping each other out.

The fact this cycle was predicted as Clinton VS Bush is the issue here. Does not help Clinton she is untrusted and is aiming to win over the ignorant vs those who can Google.

 

[Brazil]

If you contemplate switching from Sanders to Trump, well, congratulations: your brain died.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Why won't the Hillary voters vote for Bernie now in the primaries? I just don't get this. I understand choosing Hillary over Trump in the general. But I'm just so baffled as to why the voters in these primaries are choosing Hillary over Bernie. These are the same people who chose Obama over Hillary in 2008!

Because I believe that Hillary is more likely to actually deliver on her more modest promises?

 

[Unknown One]

Sure let's give the Republicans total control of Congress because Sanders lost...

Are you fucking kidding me!

 

[LaneDS]

Someone I know was telling me weeks back that if Bernie didn't get the nod he was going to vote for Trump and I was completely perplexed. He said he couldn't tell if Trump or Hillary was "more evil" and I couldn't believe him.

Scary that there's apparently a large contingent of people that think the same way. For the record, dude is heavy into Reddit.

 

[lastflowers]

If you contemplate switching from Sanders to Trump, well, congratulations: your brain died.

yep, or well you've not invested much in the political process. Or other reasons as have been laid out here.

I think the drive for uniformity and generalization of motivations can backfire here.

 

[xorx]

So basically people don't care about actual policy. Nice.

 

[Sheroking]

Someone I know was telling me weeks back that if Bernie didn't get the nod he was going to vote for Trump and I was completely perplexed. He said he couldn't tell if Trump or Hillary was "more evil" and I couldn't believe him.

Scary that there's apparently a large contingent of people that think the same way. For the record, dude is heavy into Reddit.

This is the idiocy of the primary system. Force candidates from the same party, with a platform that's like 90% the same as their opponent, slander and hyberbolize in a desperate attempt to make people vote for them instead. They fan the flames and the dumbest part of their base decides that the opponent is THE enemy.

Thing is, once Bernie loses the nomination (and he's already basically lost), they'll get over it. He'll likely offer his support because he, unlike some Bernie bros, understand how dangerous the GOP is right now and how much better Hilary is than the alternative. Bernie may dislike her relationship with Wall Street or some of her positions, but he's still a politician, and he'll still play the game for the betterment of the United States.

 

[Cerium]

If you contemplate switching from Sanders to Trump, well, congratulations: your brain died.

If the revolution cannot be socialist, it shall be fascist.

There must be a revolution!

 

[Abstrusity]

If the revolution cannot be socialist, it shall be fascist.

There must be a revolution!

"And from the ashes, a new America will be born! Evolved but untamed! The weak will be purged, but the strong will survive! They'll make America GREAT AGAIN!"