-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
John Oliver - Hollywood Whitewashing
- Thread starter SlimySnake
- Start date
- Status
There's evidence that star power translates to box office receipts. On the contrary, there is evidence to suggest that blockbusters are sold on their spectacle - not their cast.
Avatar and Star Wars 7 proves otherwise, when the two leads (both had a white and black actor/actresses) are far and away from being household names.
What Ridley doesn't realize, is that people were gonna watch a huge re-telling of Moses' story regardless of cast, so to hire EVERY KEY ROLE with caucasians is quite something. To me, it's much, much more offensive to replace historical figures than fictitious ones with a different race (like 21, World Trade Center, and Pay it Forward). There's nothing that can be done, because the source of ignorance is inside Hollywood. We can only wait, as a new wave of young filmmakers, writers, and casting directors are coming out - and old producers and directors will eventually die out.
I know Cruise isn't actually the samurai who is specifically being referred to in the title, but the point is THIS is the poster for the movie and how it was marketed:
You tell me who the general public is supposed to think "The Last Samurai" is referring to.
EdibleKnife
Member
Biblical epics w/ special effects directed by one of the best visual directors in Hollywood is kinda a gimme. And it's not like there are A-list people of color with just as much if not more pull than Joel Edgerton. I literally can't name any of the white A-listers they did have in Exodus beyond Bale.
these things are not the same.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
John Oliver is just the best.
I chuckled at that. To me it was like Stormhammer above me said. It was so freaking absurd and crazy.
Didn't even know about 21.
RustyNails
Member
Mickey rooney lmfao
TangoAlphaLima
Member
They really strained to put "The Last Samurai" in there, huh? I mean, the whole plot is the "fish out of water" thing, whereby the primarily Western audience puts themselves in Tom Cruise's shoes to learn about the bushido code and the way of the samurai. Practically every other major character in that film is played by a Japanese actor.
I guess one could argue that the story didn't need to have a white man playing the lead role, but regardless, it's hardly the whitewashing displayed in their other examples.
I guess one could argue that the story didn't need to have a white man playing the lead role, but regardless, it's hardly the whitewashing displayed in their other examples.
woops. i read the post wrong in the first place. but you're right, i just got used to it being compared to Jon Stewart since he was still hosting back then.
Yeah, I think maybe you're right. At least I hope so...
Just...
ok, so I didn't imagine that....
Angelus Errare
Banned
Yup.
It's a lot of stuff. Back in the day studios could project the success of a film a lot more accurately than they can today. During the Studio System era from the 20-60s having a big name star in the film was more important that anything really. They were literally bankable names. People saw X actor was in a movie and they went to see it. That's why studios conned all these famous actors into crazy huge contracts that locked them into dozens of films or X years.
That's changed a whole lot in the last 30 years, especially in the modern era of media, and they don't know how to forecast what will and what won't be a hit these days like they use to. Though they still do multi-picture contracts with actors because they consider it an asset.
One movie they think is sure to be a success is a flop while another that wasn't supposed to be a huge hit turns out to be a blockbuster and when they try and recreate that they just get another flop. For whatever reason they're still clinging to these old "tried and true" ways despite the fact that they've shown themselves to not be reliable.
Films are crazy expensive and a lot more risky these days, which is why everything is either a sequel or an adaptation of an established IP because they want to reduce the risk factor as much as possible. So for studio execs and financiers they want some kind of assurance and well known actors are a big one for them still, again despite failing time and again to be a reliable asset.
Someone like Ridley Scott though has the clout and pedigree that he should be able to fight for and get over that shit and actually get unknown minority actors in his film, but more than likely he never even tried because he never really cared or wanted to. It's not important to him.
Then you have the issue of Hollywood being a relatively "small' place. A whole lot of success is just based on who you know, or who your parents are, and what connections you have. So it's not surprising a lot of white actors get big roles because they're friends or relatives with other white actors, producers and film industry people.
oh come on
Its not a gimmie considering it sold like shit...
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=exodus.htm
100% serious. Everything should go full Apocalypto.
d00d3n
Member
Slightly funny video, but awful in an analytical sense. The Ridley Scott comment that they ridicule is on point. The movie industry is a business. Well-known people are cast to increase the likelihood of getting ROI. If this leads to racist caricatures, the movie in question runs the risk of being boycotted and critically panned.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Mel Gibson gets it. apocalypto and passion of christ were fucking powerful because of the fact that the actors werent speaking the kings.
joel edgar is not well known.
joel edgar is not well known.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I think that creates another issue if Moses is the only one played by a white guy, on the other hand
Yep. A seemingly racist person employs the most diverse casts in his movies. A bit strange.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
Even within that video this flawed reasoning was pointed out. Was there any reason at all why all those no named actors had to be white as well. And racist caricutures is an even worse arguement your talking about a biblical story here, the only reason you'd run to into problems with racist caracutures is if you were actually racist to begin with. They're just people.
You don't worry about writting racist caricutures about white people do you.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Seemingly? I think that's a pretty safe bet.
Lol, true. Not sure why I put seemingly.
EdibleKnife
Member
In terms of getting green lit, I can't imagine refusing the guy who made Gladiator coming to you with another big budget period movie. But it probably also sold like shit due to its own controversy coupled with the fact that there were issues with the script itself that were beyond the cast. Movie might have attracted a bigger crowd if it dared to buck the trend of just plugging in white actors in place of POCs. Would it have overcome its own budget? Probably not. But it would have actually made the movie more interesting and less a forgotten footnote.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
No it doesn't we'r talking about an israel and and Egyptian here, even in most children picture drawings or the disney adaptation, they are often clearly depited as having a different race.
Doctor Decimate
Member
Isn't pretty much half the criticism of The Last Airbender centered around the fact that they cast white kids as the good guys and minorities as the antagonists?
I guess to clarify, I think you have to go all or nothing since you run into that exact issue.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's mostly because it was a bad movie, you could switch the races around, and it wouldn't have made a big deal in th grand scheme of things, other than the story being clearly about asian and iniuit races.
Your acting as if non white actors can't play villains without there being backlash. Simply watching a tv show a large range of movies ould show this assumption to be patently false. It's a pretty damn common affair.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
well, i dont know about that. he did cast a white guy to play jesus. a white woman to play mary magdelene.
There's a Disney adaptation? You mean the DreamWorks one? Moses isn't white in that. It's probably the one time the Exodus story doesn't whitewash everyone. Well, visually. Voices are a different story.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Oh, he's racist alright, and homophobic, and a batterer.
Outside of maybe Man Without a Face, none of the films he's directed are without some baggage, and considering his past, I'm sure many of those arguments would be very legit.
Doctor Decimate
Member
I'm acting as if whitewashing the good guys but leaving the villains for minority actors has some uncomfortable undertones, and I don't really see how that's supposed to be inaccurate. That said, the reverse might be better with Christian Bale as Ramses or something.
Rastafarian42
Member
Damn they went in
That's why that movie is awesome.
Still hopeful that Mel Gibson's Viking Movie gets made.
John Oliver's show is definitely the evolved form of the Daily Show. Trevor Noah just isn't doing it for me, but every segment of Last Week Tonight is funny and super informative. Even John Stewart wasn't this consistent for me.
Ditto, it does seem like Hollywood is forgiving Mel a bit. I recently found out that he's directing a new WW2 movie called Hacksaw Ridge.
If this does well I think it will definitely lead to the Viking movie.
That's why that movie is awesome.
Still hopeful that Mel Gibson Viking Movie gets made.
Ditto, it does seem like Hollywood is forgiving Mel a bit. I recently found out that he's directing a new WW2 movie called Hacksaw Ridge.
If this does well I think it will definitely lead to the Viking movie.
Yeah, I think maybe you're right. At least I hope so...
Just...
Dude looks like he just rolled around in some ash.
A few shades lighter and he'd probably be...
I know Cruise isn't actually the samurai who is specifically being referred to in the title, but the point is THIS is the poster for the movie and how it was marketed:
You tell me who the general public is supposed to think "The Last Samurai" is referring to.
Yep.
And on an even larger point Tom Cruise shouldn't be a Samurai period.
Right, but it wasn't Ken Watanabe on every fucking promo materials
Principate
Saint Titanfall
d00d3n
Member
It should be completely up to the filmmaker and the people who pay for the movie imo. They cast Christian Bale as Moses, so it is possible that they wanted to avoid accusations of racism by casting white antagonists as well. Or they thought that the white dudes they cast were better suited for the roles, more famous or easier to get than any suitable non-white actors. I haven't seen the movie, so the comment about racist stereotypes was not in reference to Exodus. The point I was trying to make is that any racist dimension of casting white actors in non-white roles is self-regulated by the market to a large extent. There is no need for social democratic censors to decide production details in movies, such as what race an actor playing a particular role should have (although in my country, Sweden, we have a system just like that).
Yeah, I think maybe you're right. At least I hope so...
Just...
What movie is that, anyway? When they showed the clip last night, my impression was that it was just some sci-fi movie with aliens with really dark skin or something. Kind of like the aliens from Let that Be Your Last Battlefield, but minus the white half. Is that character actually supposed to be someone of African descent?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
No studio in their right mind is going to put Ken Watanabe front and center on a poster for a Tom Cruise movie. He's one of the biggest movie stars of the past 30 years.
Messofanego
Banned
Nailed it.
- Status