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[Sutton Dagger]

J Blow poured everything he had (time and all his money), with the help of a small team over the last 8 years into developing one of the most incredible puzzle games of all time, and people just want to take it for nothing... They must realise that they are scummy people right? There is no way to justify it, boo hoo it costs $40...

 

[MouldyK]

Geez, here people are complaining about Piracy of a game which is still selling when Arcen Games has hit Financial Struggle for like the 3rd time since they started in 2009...around the same time this game started development!

Great work on Starward Rogue, team! Now you’re all laid off…?

Nothing to do with Piracy, more to do with Steam being populated with too many games lately, but still.

Blow could be worse off and even he knows that.

 

[KeyChainDude]

If he made a game expecting no one would pirate it at all, I guess he shouldn't even be in this business (unfortunately). This applies to entertainment in general.

 

[moggio]

Thank God he didn't release exclusive on PC then.

Someone should tell Firaxis this before it's too late!

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I was waiting on a sale as well, as i'm not that into the genre, but are sales that bad?

 

[EdReedFan20]

blow released a drm free version

Ah. I wonder if he regrets that decision now.

Edit- Ah. The DRM free version is from the Humble Store.

 

[KHlover]

Good assumption. I haven't met a single person who pirates games and also buys them. If somebody is OK with pirating even $1 would be too high of a price. So equating sales to pirating is just crazy talk. It doesn't make pirating OK, it's just not a realistic look at the problem.

Really? When I was in school it was really common to buy the games you could and get the rest via any available means. Lending/Sharing (often pirated) and pirating games yourself. This was back in 2010 or so. Maybe things changed, idk.

 

[Resident_UA]

Have you only met a single person?

I'm assuming you now a lot of people who pirate games and also buy them? Why bother buying something if you are OK with stealing it?

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

Not a single bit of your post makes any justification for stealing the game.

This is the giant leap of logic that I see way too much on neoGAF and honestly, makes issues like this almost impossible to discuss.

No one is justifying piracy or saying it's good, most are simply explaining why it could've happened. Jesus Christ.

 

[MouldyK]

I was waiting on a sale as well, as i'm not that into the genre, but are sales that bad?

No. They can still make 1 more game instead of 2.

 

[cripterion]

This is why all PC games should come after console release.

Were you singing the same tune last gen when 360 pirate copies were available even before the official release dates?
Some of the answers here are hilarious.

 

[moggio]

I was waiting on a sale as well, as i'm not that into the genre, but are sales that bad?

Get a friend with a PS4 to share it with you using PS4 Game Share then you can play it for free.

 

[Sethista]

The point is they're not stealing, they're pirating. Pirates rarely would have purchased the game anyway, the team isn't losing anything. The original is still there, and no sale is lost.

Where is the study or data that supports this statement? it sounds ludicrous to me

 

[BashNasty]

If he made a game expecting no one would pirate it at all, I guess he shouldn't even be in this business (unfortunately). This applies to entertainment in general.

He obviously didn't make the game expecting no one would pirate it. He's simply venting frustration about all the scummy people out there, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The problem with explaining "why" piracy happens is that it seems like many of the "ethical" or "justifiable" reasons given for piracy are just hypotheticals. For goodness sake's, people will pirate things that cost $1.00. So many people aren't pirating because of ethical justifications but because they're cheapasses.

 

[DAREALGUMMY]

Get a friend with a PS4 to share it with you using PS4 Game Share then you can play it for free.

 

[PtM]

Hey Mr. Blow.

1 pirated != 1 sale lost.

His point still stands, though.

 

[Sorcerer]

The point is they're not stealing, they're pirating. Pirates rarely would have purchased the game anyway, the team isn't losing anything. The original is still there, and no sale is lost.

Pirates pirate because they can pirate.

Are we to assume that if piracy was not a thing, these pirates would not buy the game anyway?


Are pirates gamers only because they can pirate?

 

[Steel]

OK. I get it. Piracy sucks. A lot.


Now what I want to hear is whether the sales he IS getting, are enough to finance the next project. Focus on that first.

Well: https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/693136916967878656

Short answer: Yes.

And the sales are comparable between the two platforms.

 

[moggio]

I'm assuming you now a lot of people who pirate games and also buy them? Why bother buying something if you are OK with stealing it?

My mum used a photo she found on Google in her weekly church newsletter without seeking permission from the copyright holder, then a day later she bought a picture of a pug smoking a cigar from eBay.

 

[cRIPticon]

This is the giant leap of logic that I see way too much on neoGAF and honestly, makes issues like this almost impossible to discuss.

No one is justifying piracy or saying it's good, most are simply explaining why it could've happened. Jesus Christ.

Everyone knows why it happens, no need to educate us, thanks. So, back to the OP. Blow is upset that it is being pirated. He should be. Some people don't agree with the price point. Too bad. Piracy is always going to happen to popular media. Agreed.

And my response to you was not claiming that you said it was good. This is the giant leap of logic that I see way too much on neoGAF and honestly, it makes issues like this almost impossible to discuss. Jesus Christ.

 

[Solid Samus]

I also believe that the majority of people who pirate games have zero intention of buying the game anyway.

I also believe that many people who have pirated games would have purchased the same game, whether at full price or down the line during sales, had the option to play the game for free not presented itself.
I also believe that people who pirate expose their friends and close ones to the practice of piracy.
I also believe that piracy is genuinely easier than it's ever been to do, giving people who hesitated due to technical incompetence less reason to shy away from piracy over time.
I also believe that pirates of all shapes and sizes have basically been handed a wild list of excuses which they believe validates their actions, excuses which may or may not have actually been relevant a decade ago but which tend not to hold up in the year of our lord 2016.
I also believe that the more piracy is looked at as a reality of the industry as opposed to something that should be quashed regardless of circumstance, it will continue to propagate almost uninhibited as it has.

 

[GatticusFinch]

This is the giant leap of logic that I see way too much on neoGAF and honestly, makes issues like this almost impossible to discuss.

No one is justifying piracy or saying it's good, most are simply explaining why it could've happened. Jesus Christ.

Why are you giving aid and comfort to GAF's enemies?

 

[OrbitalBeard]

If piracy forces Blow out of the industry, I'm going to be crushed. The Witness is one of the best, most rewarding games I've ever played and I need more games from this man and his team .

 

[th4tguy]

Steam sales have conditioned me to never purchase a game for more than $10.

For many people, I imagine $40 is a tough pill to swallow for a puzzle game.

But not wanting to pay $40 doesn't automatically give you the right to play the game for free. Nothing entitles you to steal this or any game. It may provide reason to not want to pay and I can't argue that. But it doesn't give you the right to play the game, no matter what.

 

[GatticusFinch]

I also believe that many people who have pirated games would have purchased the same game, whether at full price or down the line during sales, had the option to play the game for free not presented itself.
I also believe that people who pirate expose their friends and close ones to the practice of piracy.
I also believe that piracy is genuinely easier than it's ever been to do, giving people who hesitated due to technical incompetence less reason to shy away from piracy over time.
I also believe that pirates of all shapes and sizes have basically been handed a wild list of excuses which they believe validates their actions, excuses which may or may not have actually been relevant a decade ago but which tend not to hold up in the year of our lord 2016.
I also believe that the more piracy is looked at as a reality of the industry as opposed to something that should be quashed regardless of circumstance, it will continue to propagate almost uninhibited as it has.

Objectively false, unless you release a DRM-free version of your game, which makes you an idiot if you are wanting to fight piracy.

 

[Zee-Row]

Pirates would have continued being the entitled fuckwits they are at any price point. Don't blame the creator for the shitty behavior of others.

People also feel like they shouldn't pay for Virtual Console games too because the ROMs are out there. Its a shitty attitude.

 

[Steel]

If piracy forces Blow out of the industry, I'm going to be crushed. The Witness is one of the best, most rewarding games I've ever played and I need more games from this man and his team .

It's... Not. Not at all.

Read this tweet:

https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/693136916967878656

Calm down.

 

[Alienous]

The problem with explaining "why" piracy happens is that it seems like many of the "ethical" or "justifiable" reasons given for piracy are just hypotheticals. For goodness sake's, people will pirate things that cost $1.00. So many people aren't pirating because of ethical justifications but because they're cheapasses.

There are many factors and convenience is one of them. If your phone is jailbroken and you can pirate an app as easily or more easily than you could get it on the store legitimately I'd expect piracy.

Sure there are people who do it on principle, but I'm also sure there are many more people who would prefer paying $5.00 to scouring the internet for a DRM-locked pirated version of a game.

A high price and a version of the game with no-DRM is a bad combination as far as piracy goes, and Blow should have seen it coming. As frustrating as it is for him it's also frustrating that something that seems like it could have been mitigated might result in a significant financial loss for the studio or even just ill-will about making PC games.

 

[Deadstar]

If piracy forces Blow out of the industry, I'm going to be crushed. The Witness is one of the best, most rewarding games I've ever played and I need more games from this man and his team .

There's no way this happens. The game will sell healthily on steam and psn for years to come regardless of piracy. There will always be pirates, but there will also be a lot of people who will grow up and convert to paying customers.

 

[Nordicus]

Someone should tell Firaxis this before it's too late!

It's too late!

XCOM 2 is doomed!

Doomed!

 

[Mackenzie 92]

It should have legs for awhile. I'm sure a lot of people like me are waiting for sub $20.

 

[CoolOff]

Good assumption. I haven't met a single person who pirates games and also buys them.

Hi.

I pirated EU4, then I bought it.

 

[orochi91]

Anecdotal, but I know several people that pirate games at launch because they're too expensive, but eventually buy a legit copy whenever it goes on sale(s) and hits their desired price-point.

That seems like a fair compromise to me, but it still feels wrong when they openly admit to it, lol

But not wanting to pay $40 doesn't automatically give you the right to play the game for free. Nothing entitles you to steal this or any game. It may provide reason to not want to pay and I can't argue that. But it doesn't give you the right to play the game, no matter what.

Agreed.

Gaming is a privilege, not a Right.

 

[Neuromancer]

All I can say is that I bought it and am enjoying it greatly. I don't think $40 was too much for a game of this caliber.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

It's... Not. Not at all.

Read this tweet:

https://twitter.com/Jonathan_Blow/status/693136916967878656

Calm down.

I'm not worked up at all, I'm actually quite calm at the moment. Thank you for the link though.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

Popular game gets pirated, I'm shocked. Blow's reaction doesn't even seem that dramatic.

 

[Princess Carl]

I'm not worked up at all, I'm actually quite calm at the moment. Thank you for the link though.

A calm person also knows Blow is simply talking out of his ass in this situation.

Popular game gets pirated, I'm shocked. Blow's reaction doesn't even seem that dramatic.

He's publicly toying with the likelihood of a new game because of the piracy, it's still hyperbole.

He could have discussed this issue much better than starting with, "man I(Me, Jonathan Blow) would hate to have to never make games cause of these pirates" immediately following release.

 

[Jb]

I just hope Blow and his team get the success they deserve. That game is something special.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

A calm person also knows Blow is simply talking out of his ass in this situation.

Even if my reaction wasn't entirely warranted, it doesn't mean I'm worked up.

 

[Kwansu Dudes]

I hope The Witness exceeds sale expectations.

 

[sssstententen]

Have you read up on this game? With 4-8 hours you're just scratching the surface. To just complete it, you're looking at 40 hours, 100% could be 80+ hours.

You're talking to the wrong guy though. I think that the messaging on the game should've been different if that's the case. Basically should've treated it like it was a AAA release.

I personally think $40 is a bad price point for any game. Too expensive to be in the same price point as indies, too cheap to be labeled a AAA/full release.

And I think that's the mindset going on.

 

[Jacksinthe]

Objectively false, unless you release a DRM-free version of your game, which makes you an idiot if you are wanting to fight piracy.

DRM is cracked too fast. There's nothing anyone can do to stop it and once its cracked, sometimes within hours of release, it spreads like wildfire.

Even "always-online" games like MMOs get broken. There are private servers right now for WoW Legion.

Its not even out yet but the files are mined from PTR. Just like Warlords of Draenor or MoP before it. Its out in the wild and being updated before the game is even out.

So, no, not objectively false. I mean... In all seriousness, do you not know how quickly piracy works? I can understand a slow spread maybe in the 56k era of playing Descent, but, dude - that's nothing like it is now.

 

[Already Torn]

I was going to wait for PS+ or a sale, but I just bought the Witness because of this thread out of guilt. At least now Jonathan Blow will be able to afford food, I feel good about myself.

Take that, Pirates! We won't let you win!

 

[GatticusFinch]

DRM is cracked too fast. There's nothing anyone can do to stop it and once its cracked, sometimes within hours of release, it spreads like wildfire.

Even "always-online" games like MMOs get broken. There are private servers right now for WoW Legion.

Its not even out yet but the files are mined from PTR. Just like Warlords of Draenor or MoP before it. Its out in the wild and being updated before the game is even out.

So, no, not objectively false. I mean... In all seriousness, do you not know how quickly piracy works? I can understand a slow spread maybe in the 56k era of playing Descent, but, dude - that's nothing like it is now.

You think it's easier to crack a game now than when all you had to do was give someone a code sheet? A copy of an .exe?

That's objectively false. Piracy is getting harder and harder and encryption technology will likely reach the point where cracking these games is functionally impossible. We're already almost there with Denuvo.

Does this sound like the golden age of game piracy? http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-01-08-denuvo-game-crack-success

 

[moggio]

You think it's easier to crack a game now than when all you had to do was give someone a code sheet? A copy of an .exe?

That's objectively false. Piracy is getting harder and harder and encryption technology will likely reach the point where cracking these games is functionally impossible. We're already almost there with Denuvo.

And are the games that use Denuvo selling significantly more than those that don't and are being pirated?

No, no they're not.

It's almost as if piracy has very little impact on actual sales.

 

[Quonny]

Can these developers not license Denuvo?

I know nothing about this, if it's even possible.

 

[kuroshiki]

DRM is cracked too fast. There's nothing anyone can do to stop it and once its cracked, sometimes within hours of release, it spreads like wildfire.

Even "always-online" games like MMOs get broken. There are private servers right now for WoW Legion.

Its not even out yet but the files are mined from PTR. Just like Warlords of Draenor or MoP before it. Its out in the wild and being updated before the game is even out.

So, no, not objectively false. I mean... In all seriousness, do you not know how quickly piracy works? I can understand a slow spread maybe in the 56k era of playing Descent, but, dude - that's nothing like it is now.

Tell that to Just Cause 3 lol

 

[truth411]

A bigger problem is it's not easy to find on the PS Store. Front page advertising would help. I had to search for it, if I wasn't aware of the game from Gaf, I would have never known about it let alone buy it.

 

[GatticusFinch]

And are the games that use Denuvo selling significantly more than those that don't and are being pirated?

No, no they're not.

DRM isn't magic fairy dust that triples your sales. It stops piracy. If they are not selling more with the DRM, all that proves is that the people screaming about piracy killing their business are wrong, and that they were never losing sales to the pirates at all.