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[Scotia]

Fuck this, I'm done for today. Can't be bothered to bicker with all these people about the same shit. Have fun with all your stale, stereotyped fan-faves!

 

[KAL2006]

SF2 had the right balance

Ryu - Main serious dude
Ken - Friend of serious dude but cooler
Chunli - Hot Chinese girl
Zangief - Russian Hairy Wrestler
Honda - Fat Guy
Guile - The Army dude
Blanka - The only freak

4 Bosses
Boxer - The dirty Boxer
Sagat - Lanky Mutai guy
Claw - Spanish cage fighter (only weapon char)
Dictator - Looks like a boss without ancient magic like or powerful Beast cliché

New Challengers
This is where Capcom fell off. Deejay and T. Hawk were awful. Cammy was sexy though and Feilong was a good Bruce Lee nod.


As you can see from the above we had a good balance. All characters complimented each other from nationality to pay style to design to character personalities.


Third Strike while had great characters they didn't compliment each other.

Necro, Twelve, Oro are too many freaks.
We have Q which I don't know what he is. Urien and Gill with some ancient Greek god like look. Characters where we cannot distinguish their nationality such as Remy with green hair. Sean the most awful shoto. Out of all the cast I was mainly a fan of Dudley, Alex, Ibuki and Makoto. Elena, Yun and Yang were also okay I guess. It took me a while to like Urien and Q but they grew on me and I can understand why some may find them weird. But all in all I can see why casual fans were not interested in SF3 cast.

 

[Beelzebufo]

I don't know why I hate almost all of the 3S designs, but I don't like any of them. It's not even because I mostly played 4, because I don't like the ones in 4 either.

Makoto, Yun, and Yang especially are pretty bad I think. Sean and Remy too.

 

[kirblar]

We also got Vega over Rog.

If someone pushed out Rog, it was Birdie. Even though Birdie's a hybrid grappler, he still had the bull rush aspect.

 

[red720]

SF2 had the right balance

Ryu - Main serious dude
Ken - Friend of serious dude but cooler
Chunli - Hot Chinese girl
Zangief - Russian Hairy Wrestler
Honda - Fat Guy
Guile - The Army dude
Blanka - The only freak

4 Bosses
Boxer - The dirty Boxer
Sagat - Lanky Mutai guy
Claw - Spanish cage fighter (only weapon char)
Dictator - Looks like a boss without ancient magic like or powerful Beast cliché

New Challengers
This is where Capcom fell off. Deejay and T. Hawk were awful. Cammy was sexy though and Feilong was a good Bruce Lee nod.


As you can see from the above we had a good balance. All characters complimented each other from nationality to pay style to design to character personalities.


Third Strike while had great characters they didn't compliment each other.

Necro, Twelve, Oro are too many freaks.
We have Q which I don't know what he is. Urien and Gill with some ancient Greek god like look. Characters where we cannot distinguish their nationality such as Remy with green hair. Sean the most awful shoto. Out of all the cast I was mainly a fan of Dudley, Alex, Ibuki and Makoto. Elena, Yun and Yang were also okay I guess. It took me a while to like Urien and Q but they grew on me and I can understand why some may find them weird. But all in all I can see why casual fans were not interested in SF3 cast.

And motherfuckers act like they forgot about Sim

 

[Crocodile]

Wait how does Blanka get a pass because he's a "Monster" but Twevle and Necro don't? Also I feel the archetypes that SFIII brings to the table are being undervalued. Yun/Yang are Chinese street urchins you see in like almost any Chinese kung-fu film (to say nothing of the fact they are based on Gundam protagonists - from one of the more successful Gundam shows in the West at that), Urien is Olympic Wrestling (and a Jojo Pillarman), Hugo is just Andre the Giant, etc. The "stereotypes" are there in spades.

Blanka/Sim (likely) getting replaced in SF5 by newbies while having some of the more problematic visual designs from that era is almost certainly not an accident. Heck, T. Hawk too.

This is a good point/observation.

We have Q which I don't know what he is.

Q is a Kamen Rider/Ultraman reference/inspired with an extra element of mystery

 

[Mik317]

Racist or not, SF2's cast designs are brilliant. They got across as much as they could from that era and gave each character...well character in a time where it wasn't super easy to do so.

If SF2 was created today, a few members would be vastly different characters. Balrog probably would be a white guy because Racism (and Lawsuits lol), Sim couldn't be, Blanka damn sure would not be the rep for Brazil. T.Hawk? Fuck no. Cammy would probably have pants And most characters storylines would be a lot more detailed.

SF2 is a product of its time for sure and it is amazing that they kinda nailed it as hard as they did. By the time SF3 came out, standards were different and the tone had changed to be 90's to the Max in a sense and each character represented that.

Each game represented it era..SF3 just came out at a time when the genre wasn't as popular. That plus the difficulty of getting it (I have no arcades and even before Sega died, it was hard to find dreamcast copies of it) is why I think the SF3 cast isn't fondly remembered...they came out at a bad time.

 

[kirblar]

Wait how does Blanka get a pass because he's a "Monster" but Twevle and Necro don't? Also I feel the archetypes that SFIII brings to the table are being undervalued. Yun/Yang are Chinese street urchins you see in like almost any Chinese kung-fu film (to say nothing of the fact they are based on Gundam protagonists - from one of the more successful Gundam shows in the West at that), Urien is Olympic Wrestling (and a Jojo Pillarman), Hugo is just Andre the Giant, etc. The "stereotypes" are there in spades.

Hugo's from Final Fight -wasn't a 3S team creation.

Blanka's the only monster in a cast of 12 starters. His design definitely makes no sense. Apparently people in Brazil actually have come to like his goofy self, but I'm glad they're getting a real rep this time around.

3S doesn't get a pass because so many of those things you mention just aren't obvious to the every day person. I didn't watch Gundam, and unlike Juri, who's JoJos + TKD, there's no secondary aspect from pop culture to pull on even if I'm missing the Anime half. Makoto's based on an Anime character, but the Karate aspect shines through even if you don't know it.

90's to the Max

Yun/Yang to a T.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

We also got Vega over Rog.

I honestly don't get why Balrog's design is considered negatively stereotypical.

I mean, on some level I do, but is it intentionally negative? No. Also the series showed with other black/Afro-influenced characters that they weren't stuck in Stereotype 101 mode. Look at Birdie, Dudley, and Sean, for example. They aren't stereotypes.

And c'mon, Tyson was HUGE back then. I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a caricature of him there. And no one complains about the Tyson in Punch-Out when that's basically what Balrog amounts to.

It's a little tougher regarding Indian characters, because the only other Indian characters I can think of in the SF series are from the EX games. They're still based on Indian customs of culture and dress to large degrees but they don't go spouting Yoga! with every attack so that's an improvement I guess.

I can understand why T.Hawk would be a point of concern, however. Fuerte too to a large degree. I was let down once that cooking gimmick was revealed.

At a low level against someone who better comprehends how parry works ot eliminates an entire basic level of strategy someone is accustomed to. It can lead to losing, but against someone learning the game the blowouts appear bigger due to a greater life difference.

You can roughly say the same thing about FADCs and one-frame links in IV. A beginner in IV isn't going to know much about FADC, or what moves are worth using Focus on to absorb a hit, or complex FADC one-frame link Super>Ultra combos. And there's still HP discrepancies in IV just like in III.

It's appearance of fairness at the casual level. A casual/bad player can feel like they are doing well in the IV series more eadily than in the SF3 series against someone better because it looks like they have achsnce of winning. The illusion of fairness. The vast majority of pkayers rarely make it oast the beginner level in any competitive game but make up most of the player base. The feeling that you had control and some degree of chance when you lost is important. The better chance a losing player felt they had, the better

At a casual level big casts do well. You get to see more characters and very few players out hours into gronding out matchups.

Yet I only mentioned that regarding the effort needed to get to "pro level" in each game respectively. I don't care about the beginners; that's going to be the case with any fighting game. The pool always gets smaller the further up you go. The problem is it's generally quite harder to get to that level in IV compared to III, one of the reasons being due to IV's reliance on things like one-frame links, FADC combos (which require more dexterity than the average III combo, more button combinations), and plinking (which isn't as intuitive or simple as something like charge partitioning).

And again, the roster size is something I was mentioning in regards getting to that "pro" skill level. It creates much more work for those players because they have to learn more matchups. And if a lot of the those chars play the same, why are they in the game?

Beginners would be wise to look towards smaller rosters, because that'd help them focus on one or two characters more, rather than spreading their focus thin and getting good with nobody.

 

[Beelzebufo]

And motherfuckers act like they forgot about Sim

It is weird that they forgot Dhalsim, he's the stereotypical pacifist/enlightened character.

 

[jon bones]

Blanka/Sim (likely) getting replaced in SF5 by newbies while having some of the more problematic visual designs from that era is almost certainly not an accident. Heck, T. Hawk too.

Chun's in a qipao. It loudly telegraphs her nationality. Sim's more broadly a witch doctor type, the skin tone points to that region, you can make a guess at India and the Yoga will make it obvious. (And yes it's definitely casually racist.)

edit: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was very fresh in public consciousness at the time.

Part of the reason I am super excited to see Zen.

At the time it was neat to have a brown character in a game I love, despite his design being... troubling.

Can't wait for a fresh take on an Indian character.

 

[kirblar]

The only issue with Rog is the name. Abel's literally Fedor, but he's not named F. Emalia.

I can understand why T.Hawk would be a point of concern, however. Fuerte too to a large degree. I was let down once that cooking gimmick was revealed.

Yeah, that's the insularity of Japan at work - Double Life Cook/Fighter is a big trope over there, but it reads really weird translated to other cultures.

 

[MegamanPoweredUP]

When you look at Mario do you know immediately that he's a plumber from Italy? No. Good character design will make you interested in the character but it doesn't have to be so obvious as Sim or Gief.

I don't think that Sim or Gief are obviois at all.
As a kid I tought Dhalsim was some sort of african cannibal.
Also how do you guess that Gief is Russian just by looking at him?

 

[Mik317]

Blanka gets a past because of longevity.

He'd be forgotten if he had of debuted later too.

However because he was the only weird thing, it also made him stand out a lot more. I am certain if you switch one of SF3 "freaks" with Blanka..they'd also be more popular.

Honestly tho..Necro and Twelve (who I legit forget exists) are the only two guys from the SF3 cast I'd be ok with not seeing again...everyone else is cool. This is the case with every fighting game honestly..there will always be some duds (DeeJay and THawk from Sf2 for example).

Its just that we are at Street Fighter FIVE and since people have grown to like characters from past versions and want them back..it is a lot harder dictate who gets in and because of simple legend status and time..the SF2 cast generally will get first dibs because like it or not..they will please a lot more people than say Q would..sorry.

Personally I am more excited for the new characters..with Mika and Birdie in, they all should be cool dudes and dudettes..no more Rufus'

 

[Beelzebufo]

I don't think that Sim or Gief are obviois at all.
As a kid I tought Dhalsim was some sort of african cannibal.
Also how do you guess that Gief is Russian just by looking at him?

He wears red and yellow, is white, has bear scars, and looks like a the stereotypical Russian strongmen that he's based on?

 

[Crocodile]

I honestly don't get why Balrog's design is considered negatively stereotypical.

I mean, on some level I do, but is it intentionally negative? No. Also the series showed with other black/Afro-influenced characters that they weren't stuck in Stereotype 101 mode. Look at Birdie, Dudley, and Sean, for example. They aren't stereotypes.

And c'mon, Tyson was HUGE back then. I'd be more surprised if there wasn't a caricature of him there. And no one complains about the Tyson in Punch-Out when that's basically what Balrog amounts to.

I dunno if you can say Birdie and "not negative stereotype" in the same sentence Also we are STILL having debates about Dudley to this day, in THIS thread even. Also Deejay exists :/ Sean in cool though. We also have Elena but she's kind of weird honestly. Why does Japan love to give dark-skinned characters weirdly white/blond hair?

 

[kirblar]

I dunno if you can say Birdie and "not negative stereotype" in the same sentence Also we are STILL having debates about Dudley to this day, in THIS thread even. Also Deejay exists :/ Sean in cool though. We also have Elena but she's kind of weird honestly. Why does Japan love to give dark-skinned characters weirdly white/blond hair?

Because Storm is absurdly popular.

 

[Nuts.Pistachio_Nuts!]

This thread has me hating Sf2. I loved playing that game standing on a milk crate playing against my brothers in a local corner store back in the day. Sad times. I find myself amused with Sf3 cast cause at least to me they don't come off as stereotypical characters that are bordeline racist images of what "world warriors" should be. Please don't sit there and tell me any dhalsims win poses wasn't straight offensive. Look it wad a different era I get it. But what is timeless about a yoga man spitting flames and cheap elongated arms. Don't mistake great design for nostalgia. M. Bison is not called Vega in u.s. for no reason. Alex was an awesome character design, Dudley an awesome design, twins were awesome as a wink to gundam fans but still being their own characters. Sf3 almost should've been better off being called something else cause it was doomed to fail the moment it was named sf3 and had to shoehorn ryu and Ken and later chun li and akuma because hadouken spamming is all people good do in 90's anyway unless you were a arcade rat who knew more than specials.

I've said my peace be done with it lol.

 

[Crocodile]

Because Storm is absurdly popular.

All back to ONE character (who has justified reason for her weird hair color)? Do you have a source on that? Not calling you a liar but I'd kind of want something to back that up. That's seems a weirdly specific reference, especially since the dark skin & white/blond hair combo is super common in Anime/Manga.

 

[kirblar]

I don't think that Sim or Gief are obviois at all.
As a kid I tought Dhalsim was some sort of african cannibal.
Also how do you guess that Gief is Russian just by looking at him?

Nikolai Volkoff was doing the mono-Red evil Russian wrestler thing for 2 decades prior to SF2.

All back to ONE character (who has justified reason for her weird hair color)? Do you have a source on that? Not calling you a liar but I'd kind of want something to back that up. That's seems a weirdly specific reference, especially since the dark skin & white/blond hair combo is super common in Anime/Manga.

It's the one explanation I've seen that actually makes any sense.

 

[Beelzebufo]

This thread has me hating Sf2. I loved playing that game standing on a milk crate playing against my brothers in a local corner store back in the day. Sad times. I find myself amused with Sf3 cast cause at least to me they don't come off as stereotypical characters that are bordeline racist images of what "world warriors" should be. Please don't sit there and tell me any dhalsims win poses wasn't straight offensive. Look it wad a different era I get it. But what is timeless about a yoga man spitting flames and cheap elongated arms. Don't mistake great design for nostalgia. M. Bison is not called Vega in u.s. for no reason. Alex was an awesome character design, Dudley an awesome design, twins were awesome as a wink to gundam fans but still being their own characters. Sf3 almost should've been better off being called something else cause it was doomed to fail the moment it was named sf3 and had to shoehorn ryu and Ken and later chun li and akuma because hadouken spamming is all people good do in 90's anyway unless you were a arcade rat who knew more than specials.

I've said my peace be done with it lol.

M Bison isn't called Vega in the U.S.

 

[Nuts.Pistachio_Nuts!]

M Bison isn't called Vega in the U.S.

That's what happens when I over edit my post after initial post. I meant he isn't Vega in us for a reason.

Is that all you took from that post? Just asking?

 

[Hours Left]

Blanka/Sim (likely) getting replaced in SF5 by newbies while having some of the more problematic visual designs from that era is almost certainly not an accident. Heck, T. Hawk too.

Chun's in a qipao. It loudly telegraphs her nationality. Sim's more broadly a witch doctor type, the skin tone points to that region, you can make a guess at India and the Yoga will make it obvious. (And yes it's definitely casually racist.)

edit: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was very fresh in public consciousness at the time.

There's a lot of designs that could use updating. Early fighting games loved using racial/nationalistic pastiches to quickly and broadly define a character's persona but hopefully we can move past those practices.

That being said, I don't think any character needs to be "replaced" just given a bit more subdued version of their current look/vibe. T. Hawk for example is a really cool character IMO, but his default outfit screams 80s stereotype. I actually have some ideas on how to update his look while still being true to the character. This could easily be applied to multiple characters.

 

[Vice]

All back to ONE character (who has justified reason for her weird hair color)? Do you have a source on that? Not calling you a liar but I'd kind of want something to back that up. That's seems a weirdly specific reference, especially since the dark skin & white/blond hair combo is super common in Anime/Manga.

It looks interesting and if you're printing in shades of black and white it provides clear differentiation between hair and skin. That's my theory atleast.

 

[MagnesD3]

Ryu: Fireball Warrior
Ken: Spunky Fireball Warrior
Guile: American Army Guy
Chun Li: Chinese Police Woman
Dhalsim: Yoga Longarms
Blanka: Electric Jungle Man
Zangief: Russian Muscle Man
Vega: Narcissist
Bison: Dictator Villian
Balrog: Money loving Boxer
Cammy: Sex Appeal
T Hawk: Native American
DJ: Smiling Black Man
Akuma: Demon Fireball Warrior

Vs.

Alex: Brooklyn Accent Wrustler
Urien: Speedo Evil Guy Juggle Master AEGIS REFLECTOR
Makoto: Momentum Karate Women
Dudley: Gentleman Boxer
Ibuki: Girl Ninja
Hugo: Big Dumb Wrestler
Elena: Footsie Feetsie Girl
Q: Mysterious Defense Spy Man
Oro: Ultimate Master with One Arm
Remy: Emo Sagat/Guile
Twelve: Weird Experiment
Yun: Gengei Jin
Yang: The other Twin
Necro: Electric long arms
Sean: Basketball Player


I tend to find the sf3 ones are more interesting while the sf2 cast seem very vanilla design/personality wise.

 

[Momentary]

Really hope Capcom crushes the World Warrior dream with the next two "familiar" releases.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

I think the only important thing is to acknowledge that Oro's way more dope than Akuma.

 

[Producer]

Are they really gonna have no SF3 characters in the initial cast though? I wanna believe in siliconera.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I dunno if you can say Birdie and "not negative stereotype" in the same sentence Also we are STILL having debates about Dudley to this day, in THIS thread even. Also Deejay exists :/ Sean in cool though. We also have Elena but she's kind of weird honestly. Why does Japan love to give dark-skinned characters weirdly white/blond hair?

Does Birdie's have something to do w/ the whole SF1 Birdie thing? Or is it b/c he's kind of vulgar? Do people not listen to punk rock music? It's vulgar and nihilistic by nature!

The only people debating about Dudley's ethnicity are likely the ones who think all Africans are Ethiopian or all black people look like Bill Cosby or Harriet Tubman. Can't honestly take their points of contention seriously.

Dee Jay was an American design, actually. That doesn't excuse his design being laughably terrible, but you can't point the finger at Capcom Japan for that one. Besides wasn't he designed after Billy Blanks?

Elena's is a bit odd w/ the silver hair, but aside from that it's good. Great even. Damn sexy, too. I'd like to see that toned physique back in V ;0

 

[Emperor Bohe]

We also got Vega over Rog.

As much as I want some SF3 characters to be added, I still think Balrog/Boxer is gonna be in there somewhere, especially if this game is going to focus on the downfall of Shadaloo. Vega & Balrog usually come as a pair, I think the only game that had one but not the other was Street Fighter EX2, and that wasn't even developed by Capcom.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Are they really gonna have no SF3 characters in the initial cast though? I wanna believe in siliconera.

Siliconera said they'll be in the game, they didn't necessarily say that it'd be in the vanilla roster. But Matt has said they'll tease DLC characters before the launch, sot hey could be in that.

 

[kirblar]

I'd hope we have (Alex/Urien)/Juri as the last two, if only two give representation of SF3/4 to the initial roster.

 

[Mister Wolf]

I think the only important thing is to acknowledge that Oro's way more dope than Akuma.

I would love if bison went after oro and got himself killed.

 

[Mik317]

As much as I want some SF3 characters to be added, I still think Balrog/Boxer is gonna be in there somewhere, especially if this game is going to focus on the downfall of Shadaloo. Vega & Balrog usually come as a pair, I think the only game that had one but not the other was Street Fighter EX2, and that wasn't even developed by Capcom.

I could swear that Balrog leave shadowloo to start his own thing in an ending in sfiv

 

[Pachinko]

177 pages of hype and speculation and only one thing is certain - the Street Fighter 5 thirst is so real we can all taste it in the air at this point.

Seriously , look at us , we're grasping at straws guessing what might make it into the game because we're just so god damn happy this game even exists.

Part of me wants the leaks to be wrong just because it's more fun guessing and being wrong than getting what we expect. I mean, I'll admit I was annoyed when Vega of all characters got announced but whatever right ? I'll try him out anyway.

 

[Clawww]

There's a lot of designs that could use updating. Early fighting games loved using racial/nationalistic pastiches to quickly and broadly define a character's persona but hopefully we can move past those practices.

That being said, I don't think any character needs to be "replaced" just given a bit more subdued version of their current look/vibe. T. Hawk for example is a really cool character IMO, but his default outfit screams 80s stereotype. I actually have some ideas on how to update his look while still being true to the character. This could easily be applied to multiple characters.

I think that's one of the great things about the OG cast--there's enough good in there that you can easily excise some of the less desirable elements and still have a great character. I wouldn't be against anyone from SF2 returning assuming they get some tweaks, and not all of them are in need of some (the Shadaloo boys in particular hold up fine--just have Rog ditch the baby blue, please).

Dee Jay was an American design, actually. That doesn't excuse his design being laughably terrible, but you can't point the finger at Capcom Japan for that one. Besides wasn't he designed after Billy Blanks?

Dee Jay sucks but I gotta give Capcom USA some props for at least going for a black character, and representing a region without any other fighters in the cast--and in some ways, it really could have been worse. I've actually been very curious about Dee Jay's design process--how much give and take was there between Japan and America?

I could swear that Balrog leave shadowloo to start his own thing in an ending in sfiv

You don't just wash your hands of Shadaloo, especially not if you're one of Bison's main men.

 

[Nuts.Pistachio_Nuts!]

I'd hope we have (Alex/Urien)/Juri as the last two, if only two give representation of SF3/4 to the initial roster.

I could see urien being a boss if Alex is in and juri being last spot for sf4 rep. If fall of shadaloo is theme then someone high up from illuminati would make sense if someone is crushing what's left of bison's thugs.

 

[Zubz]

Blanka/Sim (likely) getting replaced in SF5 by newbies while having some of the more problematic visual designs from that era is almost certainly not an accident. Heck, T. Hawk too.

Chun's in a qipao. It loudly telegraphs her nationality. Sim's more broadly a witch doctor type, the skin tone points to that region, you can make a guess at India and the Yoga will make it obvious. (And yes it's definitely casually racist.)

edit: Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was very fresh in public consciousness at the time.

I wouldn't mind those guys having updated designs when they come back, though. Their designs are outdated, and are arguably offensive in some cases, but a fresh take on the characters could make them much more interesting! Besides, if you throw in some of the "weirdos" from Third Strike, Blanka's no longer an oddity. But other characters definitely have to come first. I mean, I love the SFII cast, but they can wait while we get some other characters in. I've talked up a lot about Haggar, Dudley, Elena, Q, and Eagle, but I don't think I've pushed for Necro enough, and I assumed Juri was a lock so I didn't even bother pushing for her.

They're all more interesting, both visually and mechanically, and while I'll admit that cases could be made about Elena, there's nothing offensive about the others. I know we'll be seeing, say, Akuma or Sagat first, but I'd love for them to dig up some of these characters before crawling back to their mainstays. Or better yet? Assuming their designs are on par with Necali, Viper, or Juri, I'd love to see more newcomers! They'll be a harder sell than most because they don't already have fans, but they'd definitely be a nice breath of fresh air!

 

[Emperor Bohe]

You don't just wash your hands of Shadaloo, especially not if you're one of Bison's main men.

to be fair, Sagat did haha. Although he probably wasn't a main man like Vega and Balrog were.

 

[ElFly]

Some nice strawmaning the last pages. People want the old characters because they play them. Tons of people play Zangief and Sim and Guile, and obvs, people want them to be back. And people played them from 2, to the Alphas to the SF4s, so there's a long story of people following them.

It is undeniable that 2I added Akuma for his popularity, and 3S Chun to help with the failing previous games. Game would have been more popular if it had Zangief and Guile and Dhalsim too.

 

[vg260]

Although I believe the Siliconera leaks to be correct. I'm pulling for Guile. Sorry folks. Liked him since SF2.

 

[Skilletor]

Although I believe the Siliconera leaks to be correct. I'm pulling for Guile. Sorry folks. Liked him since SF2.

Same. I need my charge character, and I hate looking at Remy.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Then I guess the SFII games are terrible, too.

I mean, honestly, just think about what you said for a second. NG and 2I are arguably more competent than the II games; better/more in-depth combo system, faster play, additional complex techniques available to the player, a relative roster size. Other stuff like background art, music etc. are non-essentials in this sense.

And yet, for two games clearly more technically proficient than the II games (which are highly praised to this day), that all amounts to them being shit? Then SFII, Champion Edition, Super Edition, Hyper Edition etc. are also shit. Hell, I guess the Alpha series is pretty shit, too. Arguably jankier mechanics and I could just subjectively say they have worst art, character roster and music than the III games, or II games, or EX series etc.

What kind of logic is this? How are they more competent than SF2? Graphics and roster are irrelevant - but if we're to talk that, NG's roster was very small and many SF3 favourites like Urien and Q didn't come around until revisions - , NG and 2I - more specifically NG - lack many systems and mechanics that made 3S great. You couldn't tech throws until 2I nor were there EX moves, no universal overheads until 3s, balance was a mess with stuff like 2I Ibuki making Chun seem tame. Being faster or having combos isn't naturally better, otherwise every game out there would be inferior to stuff like Blazblue with massive combos, a billion subsystems and whatnot.

They were shit games compared to ST and A3. I never said vanilla 2 and Alpha 1 were that good, though they weren't bad they were extremely flawed, SF2 was buggy to fucking hell and made Dong Dong Never Die look like ST balance wise

 

[Shadoken]

Are they really gonna have no SF3 characters in the initial cast though? I wanna believe in siliconera.

They might , and honestly I dont even think it matters. There will definitely be some SF3 character in the first wave of DLC.

If Urien ends up being the boss , you can bet a toned down version will be DLC within the first two months.

 

[ElFly]

I don't think anyone is doubting that SF3 is a better game than 2.

But that's only if you don't look at the context.

2 was a revolution. 3 was just another fighting game among a fiercely competitive market that was starting to go to 3D, and that competing against even other quality Capcom games. Looking at history, at the context, 2 is a much much much much better game than 3, which simply could not read what the market wanted.

 

[Clawww]

Yeah, there's just no way to compare them sensibly given how fucking massive SF2 was in terms of mindshare. That said, the world warrior motif and design philosophy obviously bolstered 2 in a way that 3 might not have been able to match even if they swapped places as cultural phenomenons.

 

[direct_quote]

Are they really gonna have no SF3 characters in the initial cast though? I wanna believe in siliconera.

It's weird too, because SF5 is sort of giving off a SF3 vibe. SF4 felt like it was going back to SF2 roots so it made sense to overload the cast with SF2 characters in the beginning (SF3 characters didnt come out until SSF4). But now that SF3 has been in the collective consciousness a while longer (and release of SF3O), you think SF3 would have some mainstay to get a couple characters in the initial roster...

 

[APZonerunner]

Sorry, this thread is moving quite quick, so need to ask -- what is it that's making people believe there will be no SF3 reps? Is there new info?

 

[vg260]

Are they really gonna have no SF3 characters in the initial cast though? I wanna believe in siliconera.

I could totally see them doing wave of SF3 DLC, kinda like a story pack of sorts if the connection isn't fully fleshed out in the main game. I think we'll have to wait and see how the story part plays out.

Something like that and a similar Final Fight story pack would be cool.

 

[Clawww]

16 is too stingy for a series like SFV in terms of fitting 'enough' of everything in. We know more are coming, but it's pretty brutal competition for those 12 spots (only 9 since Ryu, Chun, and Ken are 'mandatory').