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Fighting Games Weekly | July 27 - Aug 2 | Beta luck next time
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
It's that time again...
I'll pick just a few games.
BBCP - Kagura: "Swing until it hits." - Anne
Xrd - May: Damage.
3s - Pocket Chun: Who doesn't have one for this game?
UNIEL - Seth: When I want to switch it up from Akatsuki.
Everything else: Probably doesn't matter.
Lostconfused
Member
It's reducing specials to a single button press. If that was the only execution barrier then nobody would be complaining about 1 frame links or care about the buffer being added to 5. Everyone just jumped to conclusions when Seth Killian outright stated that they want the game to be easier to play so that people can get to "what fighting games are supposed to be about" or something.
It doesn't have special motions so I mean yeah.
There's no motion inputs, just one direction inputs and cooldowns on specials like mmos.
Juicebox_FGC
Member
Seth Killian is the designer and embellished their core philosophy in an SRK article after Evo.
To summarize, everything is single buttons or direction + button. He wants people to get to the meat of the game and not have to work in order to play "the real game".
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
It all adds up.
Sorry, I haven't been following anything about it. I signed up for the beta out of curiosity, but never followed through in researching it.
Gotcha. Thanks.
I'm not so sure I like the sound of the cooldown aspect to specials, but I guess we'll see.
Pure_Phazon
Member
Hawlucha still beasting.
He better be in Pokken at some point.
shaowebb
Member
Smash Bros Melee has high execution characters with out referring to Special move inputs. Thing is thats the whole cast :kappa:
On a completely different note I'm reaaaaaaaaally craving more Tatsunoko vs Capcom after the TVC-vo tourney I watched from EVO. Fun stuff out there.
I miss seeing Hurricane Polymar doin stuff like this.
MegamanXZero
Member
And it has GGPO3! I'm really eager to see how much progress there has been made with the netcode.
Like Melee, I suppose it's possible Rising Thunder could have unintentional high execution at high levels. I think it's unlikely given the people working on it, and I'm sure it'd be patched if that were the case.
I don't blame you. I'm frankly not too keen on it myself.
Cooldown on one-button specials makes sense, actually (in a very abstract way of thinking).
Obviously you don't want to encourage rapid firing of the best specials by tapping a button, so now you have to think of the optimal time to use a special now that the move motion has been simplified. See: Guile's sonic boom in SSFIV 3DS.
The only problem I have with Rising Thunder is that the robots and voicework are both really lame design-wise.
I've played tons of robot games from Japan over the years, so I guess I have an inflated sense of what I expect to see from robots. But if you're going to make a game about battling bots, they better look really damn cool.
Obviously you don't want to encourage rapid firing of the best specials by tapping a button, so now you have to think of the optimal time to use a special now that the move motion has been simplified. See: Guile's sonic boom in SSFIV 3DS.
The only problem I have with Rising Thunder is that the robots and voicework are both really lame design-wise.
I've played tons of robot games from Japan over the years, so I guess I have an inflated sense of what I expect to see from robots. But if you're going to make a game about battling bots, they better look really damn cool.
looking forward to seeing how fast the adapting is.
He will be. A waste otherwise.
But there are other ways to balance the speed and execution of one button specials. Travel speed, smaller hitboxes, increased startup or recovery... cooldown is an odd solution to the problem. I'd rather make a special very punishable upon using it poorly rather than limiting your ability to use it.
But it's all in the execution of it at the end of the day.
I swear if SFV Damage output gets nerfed because some people are crying about it will be real sad.
Peeps saying "two combo" fighter is boring a guy even taking shots at SF2 lol.
Some of my friends are saying the game is too basic (some of them started with sf4) and same crys about Damage. Smh.
Peeps saying "two combo" fighter is boring a guy even taking shots at SF2 lol.
Code:
@robcardiv: @evilaj2010 @AlexValleSF4 lol just because sf20 is fuck retard reasoning. tbh sf2 was fucking boring even 20;yearsagoSome of my friends are saying the game is too basic (some of them started with sf4) and same crys about Damage. Smh.
The thing about that is if you do that form of balancing, then you end up with a narrow design for special moves (making them all worse) and it makes the game less fun to play.
After all, I'm playing a game with giant robots... who wants a game with one-button specials that all suck because they're one-button specials? Imagine if I had a cool full-screen ROCKET PUNCH special... but because it was one-button, it was -110 on block and couldn't hit someone jumping?
Keep in mind that one-button games like Melee can get away with it because of its VERY open movement and platforming options. You have so much freedom of movement in Smash it's required to have powerful one-button options to shut down opponents and kill them (or defend yourself). This is a much more constrained 2D traditional fighter with giant bots in comparison.
Power Stone has a similar philosophy to Smash. Attacks fucking hurt in the game, and almost every character has a fantastic one button attack. But you have so much freedom of movement that attacks have to be good, even though they're one button.
Cooldown is not the best solution but nerfing specials in a variety of ways is not better. It is a normal special from any other fighter with a one button input that makes it different in that way. Changing the properities of each special in the game to a weakened state might dull the game with all around bad specials. I'm thinking that the cool down timer be as fast as someone could input the move again and have it come out after recovery of said move and adjust it from there.
Got my alpha lined up, let's hope I am not black listed!
Do we know how limiting Rising Thunder will be movement-wise?
I get what you're saying, but I also think the above example takes it to a bit of an extreme. It's all speculation, but since we're speculating, let's say that cool anti-air rocket punch has 10 second cooldown. Well, then similarly, you're not going to want to use it until someone jumps in because it's a resource you'll burn. And once you use it, you won't be able to use it again, allowing your opponent to effectively jump in at you. This is something that first pops up in my mind when I hear "cooldown", but maybe their implementation will be completely different.
I'm not suggesting neutering specials to the point of uselessness. But considering why certain moves have their execution or time delay requirements, such as an SPD or a Sonic Boom, and tailoring the moves to make them work in a one-button environment makes more sense to me.
But that's not really a cooldown, nor does that balance the one button special in any way. A cool down timer as fast as someone can input is not only negligible, it would create the very issue they're trying to avoid.
KidA Seven
Member
It's so ridiculous. How about waiting to cry about this stuff at least until the 3 beta stages are over (even that is ridiculous). We've barely even touched the game.
People complain because they think their bitching will get devs to change their game.
Lostconfused
Member
There are gameplay videos if you didn't know. Make the decision for your self.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZjBwK--WSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLPO4YzyeW0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sg7opyrLOKE
I do it as a way to deal with stress of fighting games.
It's no fun if people don't master the art of complaining though.
You think nrs balance is actually influenced by people constantly bitching or were they gonna patch all that shit anyways
Overly long cool downs present alot of other issues even on whiff from full screen and then you don't have a DP no more. Striking the balance between how long the cooldowns should be over there usefullness might be the aim of the beta. Ther are vids out there too showing the length of them.
I said think, not actually influence. ;P
As for NRS, they might be the one company that balances based on tournament results. But I have no idea what actually novitiates their balance philosophy, so I can't question them outside that I dislike how frequent it is.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";173152904]I don't believe in tier lists, they're too much in flux when it matters for me to care. Fun, though.
I tried to tell everybody that Koromaru was the best character in P4A and nobody believed me.[/QUOTE]
Next Jojo's thing will probably be 8/30. lol
I tried to tell everybody that Koromaru was the best character in P4A and nobody believed me.[/QUOTE]
Next Jojo's thing will probably be 8/30. lol
I did not know. Thank you.
Based on these short videos, the cooldowns are so fast right now that they seem pretty much negligible except for the command throw. And the command throw is arguably the most important move to balance for one button input. I don't think giving giant cooldown to a move like that is an elegant solution. In the third video, they mention that certain moves will require holding down a direction, so does that translate to a charge timing, I wonder?
MiniBossBattle
Member
You guys think we will get a Sentinal type character in Rising Thunder? Wonder if there will be flight characters.
sixteen-bit
Member
Cor blimey! Bee-tah luck next time!
KBR really did kill marvel. lol
MasterHoodie
Member
Compiled all of the winquotes (Besides three) from the beta on my blog.
http://v-trigger.com/2015/07/27/street-fighter-v-beta-win-quotes/
http://v-trigger.com/2015/07/27/street-fighter-v-beta-win-quotes/
Professor Beef
Banned
That Dreckerr guy sure was quick to hop to Angelics defense
Bitching 75%
What if the game gets a sharp drop in tournament entries in the coming year? Its not a totally unrealistic situation, Marvel3 is already anime status.
It has to drop at a rate that is significantly higher than the rate it has been dropping in the previous 2 years for there to be a good justification for dropping it.
Even then you may not know how the results of the EVO have impacted the international players with an international player actually winning in the game. Maybe we get more Chileans next near, more Mexicans, more Japanese players.
In any case I am not too worried about this tweet of Mr Wizard. I treat it like the USF4 comment. I don't really see it happening but hey... if it dies, it dies. We got a great 5 EVO run with the game.
Don't know if any of you are catching the insane tetris play at SGDQ, but watching the Japanese and American players race side-by-side reminded me of the conversation you guys were having a bit back about the difference in approach to fighting games that the US and Japan have:
interesting to see similar differences in different genre of game
interesting to see similar differences in different genre of game
The only reason I can see Marvel leaving EVO next year is if SFV completely absorbs it's playerbase, which I'm not convinced it will because the games are so different. Obviously we'll see more people drop the game next year, especially people that play whatever's hottest (because now their alternative is a new game instead of a fossil). Either that or political reasons.
International players is a good point, but even then I don't think it is a big pool of players that can somehow help extend its competitive life. And for Mvc3 drop rate, considering the Evo results, and the fact there is a brand new SF game coming out early next year, I fear that drop rate is a negative exponential not linear.
Have you seen the vid where Chris got eliminated? Dude looked crushed. This Evo took the soul out of the game for some.
Absolutely. It eclipses/ties SF4 despite a shorter life imo.
This happens every year. I would actually be more worried if they DIDN'T look crushed.I-hate-u said:
Also ChrisG later made a post talking about the experience and it was fairly up beat. Seems like he wants to train harder for next time and get back into the swing of things after a small break.
Since UMVC3 released the following "new hotness" games have came and went:Enzo said:
Street Fighter x Tekken
Playstation All Stars
Persona 4
Skullgirls
Soul Calibur 5
Dead or Alive 5
Tekken Tag Tournament 2
Blazblue releases
SF4 releases
Killer Instinct
MKX
GGXrd
Injustice
Smash 4
And the game still retained its spot at EVO.