• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Fighting Games Weekly | July 27 - Aug 2 | Beta luck next time

Juicebox_FGC said:
I like the stubby normals. Really makes you think about -walking into effective range- rather than just waiting for the opponent to come to you, which is how most players play footsies.

Another common footsie problem is very strong, long-range normals being very easy to abuse such as Chun's stHP and Bison's stHK in SF4. I like how Chun and Bison have been made weaker in footsies but stronger in other areas in SF5.
Click to expand...
Yeah, footsies suck when one character outshines others. In a game like Street Fighter, everyone must have a very similar max range for footsies to be balanced. Otherwise you get crap like Claw turtling with c.HP an entire match against some characters.
 
I had no idea there was a GGPO2 let alone a GGPO3.

I really hope my craptop can run the Rising Thunder alpha, I think this game will go quite far in teaching the art of mind games.
 
Karsticles said:
Yeah, footsies suck when one character outshines others. In a game like Street Fighter, everyone must have a very similar max range for footsies to be balanced. Otherwise you get crap like Claw turtling with c.HP an entire match against some characters.
Click to expand...

Isn't that ideal when designing different character archetypes? I would think a keepaway character naturally would have better ground control than a grappler.
 
Juicebox_FGC said:
I like the stubby normals. Really makes you think about -walking into effective range- rather than just waiting for the opponent to come to you, which is how most players play footsies.

Another common footsie problem is very strong, long-range normals being very easy to abuse such as Chun's stHP and Bison's stHK in SF4. I like how Chun and Bison have been made weaker in footsies but stronger in other areas in SF5.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's actually the source of a lot of frustration in certain match-ups when playing SF4. It just adds to it being more match-up based. I think reduced footsies tools for more options elsewhere is probably the best choice.

Fuck gen's cr.mp. >=|

DryEyeRelief said:
Isn't that ideal when designing different character archetypes? I would think a keepaway character naturally would have better ground control than a grappler.
Click to expand...

It's perhaps ideal but overall adds less to the game from a player perspective than reducing the effective ranges but giving more options for the player to use, IMO.
 
DryEyeRelief said:
Isn't that ideal when designing different character archetypes? I would think a keepaway character naturally would have better ground control than a grappler.
Click to expand...
You can give control in multiple ways, though. Knee Press and Hadoken are very different methods of space control. I think Juicebox is specifically talking about the situation where both characters are at poke range and don't want to risk a high commitment move like a Hadoken. If one character has significantly better normal reach than another, it is hard to create balanced Matchups.

Bison now has a projectile reflect. You absolutely cannot zone him out in this game. If you gave him SFIV s.HK for footsies, too, then he would probably be too strong. He would be a lot like Elena. Footsie queen, projectile immune. You can't have a character that forces the opponent to play the game his way AND completely dominates his way of play.

Claw vs. Blanka is a pretty good example of this. Blanka has only one harassment tool, the Blanka Ball. Claw can always slide punish Blanka Ball, so Blanka has to resort to footsies. But Claw has significantly better normals than Blanka, so Claw, utterly content with a small life lead, can turtle the entire match away. Blanka has to go for a gimmick approach and hope his opponent fails to react. The matchup isn't fun for anyone when played optimally.

If you give everyone the same basic footsie tools, you ensure that no matter how bad the matchup is, up close, both characters have to play a similar game, and it evens things out.

Dhalsim is a bit different, because you can counterhit his limbs. Imagine if you couldn't, though, and how dominating Dhalsim would be against certain cast members.
 
I Like varying normal sizes. That allows more variation in walk speed and ranges to play besides up close. It allows you to create characters like Claw or Sim or Makoto.
 
Village said:
But i liked bisons and balrogs screw off normals
Click to expand...
Think of it this way. Bison had an amazing s.HK in SFIV, just like Claw had an amazing c.HP. However, because they dominated at footsies, that was ALL THEY COULD BE GIVEN. You couldn't give SFIV Bison Psycho Reflect or Psycho Inferno, or full screen teleport stomps. He would be absurdly overpowered because he would dominate footsies, shut down projectiles, have sick chip, and the best punish in the game.

Toning down the footsies allows you to power the character up in other ways. It is a good trade from a gameplay standpoint because now Bison is more interesting than s.HK and Knee Press. He has a full set of tools.

If Claw gets in, I fully expect that his claw will have a hurtbox where you can knock it off so he only gains circumstantial footsie domination, and you can bait a c.HP and punish to reduce him to normal status. Actually, that sounds like a great way to balance him for SFV. Then he can be given some interesting tools, too!
 
Karsticles said:
Yeah, footsies suck when one character outshines others. In a game like Street Fighter, everyone must have a very similar max range for footsies to be balanced. Otherwise you get crap like Claw turtling with c.HP an entire match against some characters.
Click to expand...

I actually disagree that characters need to operate in a similar max range. Just because one person is outshined in footsie range does not mean that the person who needs to get in is necessarily outshined in the matchup. In taking in account the total toolset of a character, a character like Bison or Claw you hear stuff from people saying that it's harder to make a comeback with the compared to say Yun or so and so because though they play the footsie game well, they would have to play more consistent throughout the match to succeed since an opening that brings them at a deficit may be harder for them to comeback from compared to other archetypes. It allows a much different playstyle approached at a different mindset. There is much creativity when there are constraints, if you character is outmatched in one area, you can try to think of a way to beat it in another way or try to avoid playing their game completely.

You also have characters like Dhalsim who's playing range is taken to the extreme, but a good Dhalsim player is pretty masterful. They aren't braindead at all, in fact they probably are trying to keep track of more things than the person getting in, because of how specifc the ranges and areas each limb cover, how they need to utilize different AA for differing jump angles, fireball zoning (since there is usually a 1 fireball rule, its something important to keep track off), and character specific stuff like in what ways can the other person counterpoke a limb. And I think a lot of people know by now that Dhalsim doesn't have a lot of room for error since once some characters get in, he may have a hard time getting out, so he has to be consistent from the start
 
SixMachine said:
I actually disagree that characters need to operate in a similar max range. Just because one person is outshined in footsie range does not mean that the person who needs to get in is necessarily outshined in the matchup. In taking in account the total toolset of a character, a character like Bison or Claw you hear stuff from people saying that it's harder to make a comeback with the compared to say Yun or so and so because though they play the footsie game well, they would have to play more consistent throughout the match to succeed since an opening that brings them at a deficit may be harder for them to comeback from compared to other archetypes. It allows a much different playstyle approached at a different mindset. There is much creativity when there are constraints, if you character is outmatched in one area, you can try to think of a way to beat it in another way or try to avoid playing their game completely.

You also have characters like Dhalsim who's playing range is taken to the extreme, but a good Dhalsim player is pretty masterful. They aren't braindead at all, in fact they probably are trying to keep track of more things than the person getting in, because of how specifc the ranges and areas each limb cover, how they need to utilize different AA for differing jump angles, fireball zoning (since there is usually a 1 fireball rule, its something important to keep track off), and character specific stuff like in what ways can the other person counterpoke a limb. And I think a lot of people know by now that Dhalsim doesn't have a lot of room for error since once some characters get in, he may have a hard time getting out, so he has to be consistent from the start
Click to expand...
I already specifically addressed Dhalsim, and I think my previous post addresses your other points as well.
 
Honestly don't think giving people stubbier normals is somehow going to make the footsie game more interesting... Giving people walkspeeds capable of moving in and out of the ranges, whatever they may be, does.
 
petghost said:
Honestly don't think giving people stubbier normals is somehow going to make the footsie game more interesting... Giving people walkspeeds capable of moving in and out of the ranges, whatever they may be, does.
Click to expand...

I like this idea more than stubbier normals.

Or just give us all air blocking and air daashing and half screen normals go full animeee
 
Bodied
Capcom offers its sincerest apologies to everyone who participated in this first beta test. While the purpose of a beta is to work out these type of issues, it was very clear that the issues we faced were more severe than we were prepared for. After three days of testing, while we were making progress and collecting valuable data, we felt the majority of players were not having a good experience, and the best course of action would be to take the servers offline for extended maintenance. We will be postponing our first beta phase until we believe the experience is going to be a positive one for players.

To be clear, this first beta test attempt will not count toward our previously announced beta test allotments. There will still be at least three full beta tests prior to the game’s launch. So for those in the Americas that feel disappointed that they were not able to experience their pre-order incentive, there will be plenty of opportunities prior to launch to experience the game.

Additionally, we are working on a worthwhile in-game incentive for the players that participated in the first beta test. While we can't confirm specifics just yet, we will have more details on this in the coming weeks.

To all of the European and Asian players that felt like they were missing out on the beta since we limited it to North America on Friday and Saturday, we apologize for the inconvenience. Due to the state of the server issues, we had to limit the numbers to a smaller pool in order to identify issues and potential solutions. Either way, we will still be providing these players with an incentive as well, as all territories were inconvenienced.

To all of the players that participated and supported us through this initial phase, we cannot thank you enough. We understand how frustrating it is to be so close to playing the game you are excited for, and to not have it working. The whole team here is very disappointed that we were unable to deliver a proper beta experience this time. Thank you so much for your continued support, and we promise that we will have a better experience for you with the future betas.

We will be sharing more details when available, but for now, we appreciate your patience as we work on solutions to offer the experience that we had intended.
Click to expand...
 
Man, I don't need an incentive or "We're sorry" gift from Capcom after this. It's all good. Free beta, you know?

That said, if the incentive is starting us all out with 100,000 Bison Bucks, I won't say no.
 
so this beta test is over I guess? Well at least capcom got some good info on their infrastructure and what they need to do for the next beta/launch, but man as an end user experience that beta was one of the worst. Thankfully I was able to get a couple matches in before it closed
 
Oh well. I got some matches in, played a lot in training, got to confirm that my stick actually works well on PS4, and now I'm getting some dumb tag or something I'll never use.

Could have been worse.
 
Mr. X said:
Need to play oneida in VF again. TTT2 doesn't do it for me.
Click to expand...

VF is great for taking frustrations out on GAF mods...

My footsies game in SF is pretty weak. Playing PR Rog online a couple of times made me realize it. I tend to play KOF like SF and SF like KOF though- I just play games not how they're intended.
 
Additionally, we are working on a worthwhile in-game incentive for the players that participated in the first beta test. While we can't confirm specifics just yet, we will have more details on this in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...
How are they going to know if someone participated in the beta when many players didn't even get to play a single match?

It's cool that there's some in-game incentive though. Like I said despite all the people talking about "OMG it's just a beta stop complaining" it was still a bad overall look for Capcom so it's good that they they are trying to gain back some good will.


Due to the state of the server issues, we had to limit the numbers to a smaller pool in order to identify issues and potential solutions
Click to expand...
DAT WHITE LIST!!!
 
Karsticles said:
Think of it this way. Bison had an amazing s.HK in SFIV, just like Claw had an amazing c.HP. However, because they dominated at footsies, that was ALL THEY COULD BE GIVEN. You couldn't give SFIV Bison Psycho Reflect or Psycho Inferno, or full screen teleport stomps. He would be absurdly overpowered because he would dominate footsies, shut down projectiles, have sick chip, and the best punish in the game.

Toning down the footsies allows you to power the character up in other ways. It is a good trade from a gameplay standpoint because now Bison is more interesting than s.HK and Knee Press. He has a full set of tools.

If Claw gets in, I fully expect that his claw will have a hurtbox where you can knock it off so he only gains circumstantial footsie domination, and you can bait a c.HP and punish to reduce him to normal status. Actually, that sounds like a great way to balance him for SFV. Then he can be given some interesting tools, too!
Click to expand...

If bison in 5 sucks on release i will quote you and blame you.
 
SF4 normals would've been fine if they weren't active for like 5f-8f. Annoying when trying to hit a big normal whiffing but trading or losing. They were active way longer than how it was in past games.

Well, SF4 has a bunch of things fighters didn't do or stopped doing in the past.
 
Karsticles said:
Man, I don't need an incentive or "We're sorry" gift from Capcom after this. It's all good. Free beta, you know?
Click to expand...
On the other hand, of all the beta programs I've been through. This was one of the worst that I can think of.

Edit: I mean in the sense that I've never even had the chance to test the features that this was supposedly meant to test. Good thing that they found out that they are not even ready to attempt the test in their current state I guess.
 
Another one I had made.

Tekken-7-Gif-1ff97d.gif


Dat shining wizard.
 
This felt more like a beta test for the beta itself lol.

Its all good though, when it works it works and hopefully the wait won't be too long.
 
Dahbomb said:
How are they going to know if someone participated in the beta when many players didn't even get to play a single match?

It's cool that there's some in-game incentive though. Like I said despite all the people talking about "OMG it's just a beta stop complaining" it was still a bad overall look for Capcom so it's good that they they are trying to gain back some good will.



DAT WHITE LIST!!!
Click to expand...

Beta had player exp/character exp and match history.
 
I'm annoyed I only got to play 5 minutes of training mode and got a grand total of 0 matches in. What a disaster.

At least the game is looking beautiful ~
 
Karsticles said:
I already specifically addressed Dhalsim, and I think my previous post addresses your other points as well.
Click to expand...

SF5 Bison is a much different gameplan than SF4 Bison, that has to do with things like much different walk speeds, specials, V-trigger, etc that plopping his st.hk would not do much for the discussion, since it's a much different context. Within the context of SF4 Bison his st.hk is a footsie tool that works. It's strong not unbeatable. You see people focus it or low profile it with something my character has, which means that both players are playing the footsie game to win over each other. Both players should be thinking about it, if I don't want to play Bison's footsie game,I can be like Guile and play the projectile game and try to punish the reads he does to try to get in, instead of playing the back and forth if I think that wouldn't be in my favor.

I know bad matchups are frustrating but overcoming them (or playing around them) is also part of the process. I mentioned creativity within constraint because that applies a lot to Street Fighter since compared to some other fighters there are less universal mechanics or characters are given various gameplans that there is a lot of "matchup fighting".

Like people used to say (or still do, I don't know I don't keep up with Rufus) that Zangief beats Rufus because Rufus fights up close where Gief wants him and that lariat can stop his divekick approach. But you see a player like Justin Wong take a win from Snake Eyez by playing a totally different gameplan than Rufus is normally known for and played a poking game because Giefs options place a constraint on what Rufus should normally plan to do. The point of this example is that a bad matchup can force a player to play different and out of a comfort zone and tgey can make something of it.

Of course there are really lopsided bad matchups in some fighting games that are absolutely horrendous but usf4 I would say is balanced enough that a character isn't completely shut out like that.
 
6 hours of training mode and about 30 matches, so I am happy.

Dahbomb said:
How are they going to know if someone participated in the beta when many players didn't even get to play a single match?

It's cool that there's some in-game incentive though. Like I said despite all the people talking about "OMG it's just a beta stop complaining" it was still a bad overall look for Capcom so it's good that they they are trying to gain back some good will.



DAT WHITE LIST!!!
Click to expand...
They can tell if you were pinging the server to log in, I imagine.

Horseress said:
It wasn't a free beta tho (for most people at least)



Yep, that's probably going to be the incentive
Click to expand...
Either it was free, or you bought it on PSN, which you were going to do for $60 anyway. /shrug

Village said:
If bison in 5 sucks on release i will quote you and blame you.
Click to expand...
I can't be held responsible for any nerfs he gets from now to release. JWong won the E3 tournament with him against skilled and intelligent opponents, so I don't think he can suck.

Lostconfused said:
On the other hand, of all the beta programs I've been through. This was one of the worst that I can think of.

Edit: I mean in the sense that I've never even had the chance to test the features that this was supposedly meant to test. Good thing that they found out that they are not even ready to attempt the test in their current state I guess.
Click to expand...
Maybe I am just old, but I gauge all online launch experiences in contrast with the Diablo II launch. For anyone who wasn't a part of it:

1) Random disconnects.
2) Hours before you got in.
3) Characters progress randomly rolled back.
4) Invincible monsters.
5) Invisible monsters.
6) Loot that couldn't be picked up.
7) Massive delay that forced you to autoattack one character at a time.
8) Game stalls that led to bosses teleporting next to you, and your character just being dead (fucking Duriel).
9) Map stopped moving with your character.
10) Sometimes your characters were outright deleted.

SFV beta was a walk along the beach compared to that first week of D2 at LAUNCH.

SixMachine said:
SF5 Bison is a much different gameplan than SF4 Bison, that has to do with things like much different walk speeds, specials, V-trigger, etc that plopping his st.hk would not do much for the discussion, since it's a much different context. Within the context of SF4 Bison his st.hk is a footsie tool that works. It's strong not unbeatable. You see people focus it or low profile it with something my character has, which means that both players are playing the footsie game to win over each other. Both players should be thinking about it, if I don't want to play Bison's footsie game,I can be like Guile and play the projectile game and try to punish the reads he does to try to get in, instead of playing the back and forth if I think that wouldn't be in my favor.

I know bad matchups are frustrating but overcoming them (or playing around them) is also part of the process. I mentioned creativity within constraint because that applies a lot to Street Fighter since compared to some other fighters there are less universal mechanics or characters are given various gameplans that there is a lot of "matchup fighting".

Like people used to say (or still do, I don't know I don't keep up with Rufus) that Zangief beats Rufus because Rufus fights up close where Gief wants him and that lariat can stop his divekick approach. But you see a player like Justin Wong take a win from Snake Eyez by playing a totally different gameplan than Rufus is normally known for and played a poking game because Giefs options place a constraint on what Rufus should normally plan to do. The point of this example is that a bad matchup can force a player to play different and out of a comfort zone and tgey can make something of it.

Of course there are really lopsided bad matchups in some fighting games that are absolutely horrendous but usf4 I would say is balanced enough that a character isn't completely shut out like that.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with you, but nerfing s.HK lets Bison have a more diverse toolset, and now you have MORE ways to creatively play Matchups. That's a win in my book.
 
Dahbomb said:
It's cool that there's some in-game incentive though. Like I said despite all the people talking about "OMG it's just a beta stop complaining" it was still a bad overall look for Capcom so it's good that they they are trying to gain back some good will.
Click to expand...
I am actually surprised that you aren't claiming validation of all those "Working as intended" comments. Capcom just straight up admitted that this whole thing didn't work at all as how it was supposed and they will still run their three phases of console only/cross play/stuff.

Karsticles said:
SFV beta was a walk along the beach compared to that first week of D2 at LAUNCH.
Click to expand...
Well in my case it was none of those because I couldn't even make it past the log in server. Outside of the few minutes of friday morning. Most betas, and even Alphas for that matter usually have tester get past that part so that they can actually test whatever it is that was supposed to be tested.
 
notworksafe said:
Also the beta redemption is tied to your PSN account. Not hard to tell who was a part of this first test.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm hoping they can pull it based on that, I only actively tried the first night when it was super fucked, then every other time I was home and could have gotten on the servers were down so I didn't even try.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

FYI: Monitor time! $349.99 each 27" OLED Alienware or PlayStation IPS.
15
102
crackajack replied
Rhythm Heaven Groove releases July 2
43
584
BennyBlanco replied
Digimon Time Stranger coming to Nintendo Switch 2 on July 10, 2026
News 
29
746
Saber replied
Famitsu Sales: Week 18+19, 2026 (Apr 27 - May 10)
Sales-Age  2
85
792
daclynk replied
College Football 27 Official Reveal Trailer
2
80
HeisenbergFX4 replied
Top Bottom