drugstore_cowboy
Member
There was a quick shot of a T-cam style view, any idea if that's a new camera or just something from a replay?
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Forza Motorsport 6 has "wet weather, 3D puddles and night races" + more
- Thread starter Steverulez
- Start date
I don't understand your argument, it's clearly just a visual effect and nothing more......
Anyone would know that a car in real life would explode in such a situation.
TechMaster360
Banned
Who knows, we don't know yet how deeply there are simulating tyres, surfaces etc, perhaps they are doing things more advanced than anyone else, hopefully we get some kind of in-depth interview going into the tech details
Im not sure it's fair to bring Driveclub into the debate due to it only being 30fps
As in depth as we have right now:
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/...tting-dark-and-wet-in-a-world-first-hands-on/
Diablohead
Member
0/10 no roof damage
in forza 2 touching the side of the car on a wall could damage your roof
Yes, really. Like I said. I've given my full thoughts several pages back. I laid it all out. Of course I've driven through a puddle.
eso76
Member
He's driving in a straight line at 45mph.
It's water puddles, not black holes or big red X's you absolutely must not touch or else instadeath.
DivineRage002
Member
Wall of questions. Coming from someone who HAS NOT PLAYED ANY FORZA SINCE 4.
Forza 5 always seemed like a "Bimbo" to me, good looking but shallow and stupid. Less cars, less tracks, nothing new except better looking. Drivatars seemed cool as hell though.
As far as I know, since F5 had only ~200 cars, the cars were divided I think between A to D class, only 4 classes for every car in the game, contrary to F4 with R1-R2-R3-A all the way to F class. This means there was a much bigger spread in performance between the categories, most likely resulting in a lot of the lower PI range cars being completely blown away by the faster ones from the same category. Now back to 450+ cars, are all the different classes back? How many cars did Forza 4 have at launch?
Will my Microsoft Wireless Wheel work with this?
Again I've been out of the loop for 4+ years.
Forza 5 always seemed like a "Bimbo" to me, good looking but shallow and stupid. Less cars, less tracks, nothing new except better looking. Drivatars seemed cool as hell though.
As far as I know, since F5 had only ~200 cars, the cars were divided I think between A to D class, only 4 classes for every car in the game, contrary to F4 with R1-R2-R3-A all the way to F class. This means there was a much bigger spread in performance between the categories, most likely resulting in a lot of the lower PI range cars being completely blown away by the faster ones from the same category. Now back to 450+ cars, are all the different classes back? How many cars did Forza 4 have at launch?
Will my Microsoft Wireless Wheel work with this?
Again I've been out of the loop for 4+ years.
I don't know what to tell you more than don't come in here and troll.
Your comment literally said that it's dissapointing because the puddles only physical effect the cars movement and steering.... that's what they do in real life.
Lol that TCS doing work. Definitely one of the first things to turn off.Satisfying splash
4) TCS comes on the second he enters the puddle.
Thanks for pointing it out Noobcraft.
JackAubrey
Member
No. FM5 did not have just four classes.
GHG
Member
Not necessarily straight into a barrier at that speed but I agree that it just looks to be a visual effect in this case that we can see in the GIF.
There is not even a change in velocity as the speed of the car doesn't drop while going through the puddle, which also happens to be over a kerb and partially off the track...
Something should have happened, but yet it didn't.
Dude... Please. I'm sure he's not going to give two hoots if you stop following him. Lets not make this about something its not. We can critique this game just like with any other. There is a clear discrepancy between what we are seeing and what is actually happening in terms of the physics in this scenario.
Haha, it sure is great times to be a racing game fan though. Only the wheel situation sucks though and I really wish there was even a half-reasonable true multiplatform option, but it just isn't happening
I'll probably go with just a pad for XBO/F6 which would suck a bit I guess there aren't any options for me.
As others mentioned, I really hope we get some more info on the track side destructibles. As I mentioned from a game design perspective it's really interesting for me as no matter what you do, there's going to be a compromise between design/realism/tech/ratings. Basically if you disregard the technical aspect you have at least 3 simple options:
1. Destructibles, like tires remain on the track, which makes them more meaningful, but also slightly go against Motorsports rules and can potentially harm the driving if they are in a bad place. Both immersive and immersion breaking depending on the player.
2. Desctructibles are removed/ghosted out automatically which makes it a bit more realistic, but create problems in the transition period which can potentially be un-intuitive for the player (or the removal happens dynamically when no player can potentially hit them and they do not affect player's driving line choices). It can still be a bit immersion breaking, but provides a good balance between option 1 and the 3.
3. Destructibles are removed by Marshalls. Massively complex choice (technically and production wise goes towards impossible to create) and since it potentially makes players able to hit said Marshalls it goes into dangerous territory considering age ratings. Having players go through the Marshalls like ghost is most likely the only viable option, but that is once again going into the potentially immersion breaking territory and brings a whole lot of other potential problems as well.
All in all, option 3. is not happening so I'd personally go with a version of 2. but like I said, such a simple feature is still a very interesting game design "problem" to be solved. Once again, the fact that through all the different games we get so many different approaches to these problems it's great to be able to really get in deep with the design processes.
Oh yeah I stand corrected, it's been a while since I've seen Sepang, but it's definitely one of those tracks that can be massive puddles. I still think that for a set condition having that particular puddle in especially on the racing line is a bit towards gameplay over realism, but I don't think it's a bad choice by any means.
Isn't it off there (the icon not visible)? Not that TCS can do much in preventing the car from rising on top of the puddle though.
JackAubrey
Member
Why? If you are that hardcore surely realism is everything? Or are the real GT racing drivers using TCS/ABS not as mighty as us joypad drivers?
TCS is ready but doesn't activate until you start to lose traction, like seen in the GIF.
It seems that the new HUD doesn't display assists until they are actively being used by the car.
I use ABS because I don't have a wheel and I don't like feathering the brake, but I prefer no TCS because some cars are absolutely insane to drive without it.Why? If you are that hardcore surely realism is everything? Or are the real GT racing drivers using TCS/ABS not as mighty as us joypad drivers?
JackAubrey
Member
Yeah the way some hypercars are designed now they are almost like fly by wire planes - insane to drive without the computers.
Agreed.
GHG
Member
Honestly... I don't see any trolling in here (well at least not the last couple of pages). People are allowed to question things without it automatically being defined as trolling.
Yes, I can see the throttle is fully open from the moment just before the car hits the puddle, however the puddle looks like a big one, considering the amount of splash it creates. Yet, absolutely nothing seems to happen physically. Its not like we are talking about a big 4x4 going through the puddle either.
The only time the speed drops a little actually is after the puddle once the TCS comes on to save the car losing traction.
TechMaster360
Banned
Thanks, that all sounds pretty impressive, although I don't know how it compares to what other racers are doing with their simulations
It's trolling when you say the car hits the puddle at 70 mph and that it was only a visual effect and then pretend to ignore all the facts, like how the car isn't even traveling at 70 mph.
Saying absolutely nothing is happening physically is a load of bull, that is like watching a car drive straight through a puddle in real life and say puddles do nothing.
I'm wondering the same thing. I really want to preorder the Ultimate Edition digitally but if the physical CE has some great content I'll get that instead.
Yeah that's what I tried mean, just that it wasn't active when in the puddle. At the same it's not like TC can actively prevent aquaplaning in such situation as it can't predict when you're about to enter a puddle and potentially rise on top of it. In any case, I don't think the car should have much trouble entering the puddle at that angle and speed, but I really am no expert on the matter.
It's not about preventing aquaplaning, it's about dependent wheel brake/acceleration control in order to maximize traction and prevent wheel spinning.
https://youtu.be/w-RUYmxFT_w?t=8m43s
He says lobbies can be open so it seems like they are back but I might be interpreting this wrong.
Which was my point from the start, but I might've misunderstood the earlier posts. I thought that this post...
...was an addition to danowat's post in response to point out why the car didn't aquaplane. Might've misunderstood it all though
Which was my point from the start, but I might've misunderstood the earlier posts. I thought that this post...
...was an addition to danowat's post in response to point out why the car didn't aquaplane. Might've misunderstood it all though
"Preventing aquaplaning" is really the wrong term for it, it's more about preventing a complete loss of traction and control of the vehicle while aquaplaning. It's like jumping on a pillow and saying that the pillow is preventing gravity but the point is to lessen the destructive effect of gravity when you fall to the floor.
VVV Mars VG
Member
There's no need to slander me for pointing out an observation on puddle size. If you think that's realistic, good for you.
Are you saying its not a nice visual effect? How am I being disingenuous?
Feels like there's a bit of an agenda here on these comments, I'm making simple observations. If you don't agree, you're welcome to disagree.
Not trolling one bit. I was highly supportive of the game and I'm still am. I'm just saying that you can do more with 3D puddles other than affecting the cars' handling and splashing. I said many time on this thread when talking about puddles as the theme here that we should NOT assume anything further about 3D puddles until we know exactly what it does, and I was the one that that I would like the developers to think "outside the box" in respect to this feature because it can become a really good one.
For example, puddle foaming due to weather, puddle spreading, puddle running, puddle fading over time due to the weather (sun) and the spread of it caused by other vehicles running over it, puddle splashing and depending on the track type (dirt, etc), the puddle could dirty your windscreen. I am the one that said depending on how much you work on this feature it can be a great feature of the game, one that give you a different experience/situation everytime when you are in a lap race (if the weather was dynamic then the many forms of situations would be even more pronounced and exciting). I was the one that used SEGA RALLY REVO as an example of thinking outside the box in respect to undulated terrain changing as you keep going around the track (e.g. on the mud course, first the mud will be hard then the more car travel upon it, it will eventually become very soft and sticky thus affecting the car's momentum and handling). I was the one that even said that I wouldn't be surprised if Turn10 wouldn't think to this level and instead just provided surface/swallow offerings, something that has been done time and time again in many racing games. In this case, this is puddles just splash and affecting the handing and momentum of the car but within the sim physics. This is a shame for it's an opportunity lost but I am not surprised they didn't provide it for Turn10 is known for "holding back".
Don't make assumptions or be naiive. I'd take it you didn't read my prior comments about the subject.
Your simple observations were clearly wrong and proven wrong.
It makes it sound like you're saying that it's only a visual effect and nothing else, believe it or not but others have clearly claimed the same.
We're talking about the physical reaction between the car and the puddle, most things you mentioned are more of a visual effect and have little effect on the physical interaction other than spraying.
eso76
Member
I really don't see the problem. Car is traveling straight, wheels are straight, speed is constant.
Heck, I've hit my share of deep puddles at much higher speeds, was scared af but it's not like my car threw itself on the barriers.
It will just glide on the puddle following the same trajectory it had. Now had the car been in the middle of a turn, or had the driver tried to steer, or had the car been recovering from some significant body roll, or had the car hit the puddle with 2 wheels while not traveling on a straight line yeah, good luck. But car's behavior here is accurate under those circumstances.
And yes we've seen tires from the barriers flying and bouncing around the track in a couple off screen videos posted 2 pages back
EDIT: On mobile so I don't have a general view of the thread. You guys mean stuff like the puddle splashing and changing size/shape as cars race on it, or the road drying or others such subtleties (it's not minor, I know, I think it's just way too hard to simulate versus the real impact on gameplay for most people)
Heck, I've hit my share of deep puddles at much higher speeds, was scared af but it's not like my car threw itself on the barriers.
It will just glide on the puddle following the same trajectory it had. Now had the car been in the middle of a turn, or had the driver tried to steer, or had the car been recovering from some significant body roll, or had the car hit the puddle with 2 wheels while not traveling on a straight line yeah, good luck. But car's behavior here is accurate under those circumstances.
And yes we've seen tires from the barriers flying and bouncing around the track in a couple off screen videos posted 2 pages back
EDIT: On mobile so I don't have a general view of the thread. You guys mean stuff like the puddle splashing and changing size/shape as cars race on it, or the road drying or others such subtleties (it's not minor, I know, I think it's just way too hard to simulate versus the real impact on gameplay for most people)
I think you've lost me now (in terms of where the discussion started from, since the car never aquaplanes there))
But yeah, TC can potentialy help a bit in aquaplaning situation and try to keep the tires spinning at the "natural" rate and for example apply the clutch, but I'm not sure if it actually does that since aquaplaning isn't a normal traction loss situation as there is no traction possibly available and you don't want to have it mixed with the functions of normal traction loss. In games though it's a good feature in TC to include for novice players though as I don't know if most would not what to do in the situation.
Visual effect?? You can't be serious. Ok, I don't think yo uunderstand. What I talked about was not simply visual effects. Affecting the car is the basic element in respect to a water puddle and what I talked about are element that you can add to the feature to improve the gameplay experience further. I don't want to make assumptions but if you really couldn't see that from what I talked about even when I said about expanding the puddle formula further, then I really cannot say anything further. Please think about it more and you'll hopefully understand..
Outrun
Member
Man, T10 are incredible. This is a totally unsubstantiated left field guess, but I am thinking that dynamic weather and day/night cycle could be in Forza 7.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
It depends. If the puddle is on one side of the car only (or deeper on one side), the friction delta between left and right will make it pull heavily to one side.
I think you've lost me now (in terms of where the discussion started from, since the car never aquaplanes there))
But yeah, TC can potentialy help a bit in aquaplaning situation and try to keep the tires spinning at the "natural" rate and for example apply the clutch, but I'm not sure if it actually does that since aquaplaning isn't a normal traction loss situation as there is no traction possibly available and you don't want to have it mixed with the functions of normal traction loss. In games though it's a good feature in TC to include for novice players though as I don't know if most would not what to do in the situation.
It actually does aquaplane, aquaplaning doesn't have to cause a disaster or a real loss of control of the vehicle.
Yep and the car in the GIF clearly entered straight into the puddle with both tires at the same time.
KeyboardThug
Member
Is dynamic weather or day/night cycle really that important for a game were most races last 3 - 10 laps. Am i missing something? Forza 5 did have those weekend events that were like 6 hours so I guess that would be cool but not something worth it in my opinion.
drugstore_cowboy
Member
It's taken some but now this is a proper Forza thread.
TheAdmiester
Member
I'm just pleased that this is seemingly the second game ever/first sim to have actual hinderance puddles, as opposed to a trackwide grip reduction with the puddles just being for show.
Are they normally a complete shit show?
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Oh yeah, every time.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Outside of OT, yes.
That's right. Depending on the weight of the car, the depth of the water and how wet the track is and the car's speed, it is possible for the car to spin-out just from one side of the car is in contact with the puddle.