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Manga News/Discussion |OTY| Creatively Bankrupt
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MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
To-LOVE-Ru 45-46
She has been stricken with the incredibly dangerous disease... NOMURA-ITIS!
To-LOVE-Ru 47-48
...That's Lala's dad? Guess this is the reverse of the 30 year old loli mom.
She has been stricken with the incredibly dangerous disease... NOMURA-ITIS!
To-LOVE-Ru 47-48
...That's Lala's dad? Guess this is the reverse of the 30 year old loli mom.
Bright Side of Life
Member
Ass Class 125
Almost up to the current release, a sad backstory in one chapter, Oda take notes.
Almost up to the current release, a sad backstory in one chapter, Oda take notes.
Coriolanus
Banned
Tokyo Ghoul 82
A foldable 2m tall scythe. For a midget. Who then proceeded to name it Jason.
I understand that rule of cool is a thing, but... yeesh.
A foldable 2m tall scythe. For a midget. Who then proceeded to name it Jason.
I understand that rule of cool is a thing, but... yeesh.
8 volumes, 42 chapters. Good luck, at least future prospects look to be good atm.
I think I waited about quite a few years for this,for both the mangaka and translations to pick up their pace. In that meantime, my taste has shifted towards seinen (drama) rom-com.
Sir Blaming
Member
Well, at least 4chan there have their priorities right.
Asses and titties.
Asses and titties.
Lol Tokyo Ghoul isn't as good as Attack on Titan. Its heights never reach the height that AoT had in the beginning, and the only seinen part of Tokyo Ghoul is that it has a lot of blood. AoT went weirdly personal-political, which at least distinguishes it from the shounen pack; in comparison, Tokyo Ghoul is straight shounen story.
Tokyo Ghoul's philosophical themes get dropped quickly for personal drama that barely relates to the initial questions posed. The main female character gets weaksauce quickly and the fights boil down to power levels. The main character goes Kira Yamato Jesus and then there's someone else who is even more Jesus than him. The setting and lore isn't that substantial, given the story takes place in "modern JP city" so there's less necessity for world building. The 'powers' applied by the ghouls in the story are fairly typical fare, with about the same inventiveness as Bleach.
I suppose the one aspect Tokyo Ghoul is better than AoT on is art. Despite that, the fights are actually quite hard to follow even if drawn dynamically.
I see it and Terra Formars as 'edgy' manga stories that rode on the coattails of AoT's popularity. It's the same reason something like Parasyte was brought out of the closet and given an anime. The Japanese market for the past two, three years hungered for man vs. monster stories that portray men as something darker than your usual righteous justice against evil powers. Strangely enough Parasyte is a better Tokyo Ghoul with worse female character portrayals, but the females in Tokyo Ghoul are incredibly boring so it's not like Tokyo Ghoul can exceed Parasyte on that basis alone.
ColossalLazy
Member
They miss Berserk.
Coriolanus
Banned
See mate, that there? Is where you went off the deep end.
Even Type90 writes better females than the ones in Parasyte.
I said right there that Parasyte has worse female character portrayals than Tokyo Ghoul. And Tokyo Ghoul has average female characters. Which is to say they're mostly window dressing.
Perhaps the confusion is over my meaning. I'm saying the 'better' female character portrayals in Tokyo Ghoul cannot by that merit alone elevate it above Parasyte.
Coriolanus
Banned
I understood. The point was that comparing anything to Parasyte, as far as females are concerned, is a pointless endeavour. Shit's one step above guro in that regard.
Saying that TG has average females is a bit too harsh too. You know that the average is defined by the industry, and in the industry females are usually weaklings that need rescuing from chapter 0.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Its a pretty straightforward adaptation. People complaining about Murano all the time are being overly dramatic. She almost never does anything important and she's not any worse than most 80s manga girlfriend characters.
People complaining about Kana are being dramatic too. She doesn't necessarily believe in horrifying shape-shifting aliens.
dakkumauji
Member
I Am Alice Vol.03
Well this ended. Somewhat. Other than basically saying go play the games!
Anyway, what started with an amusing premise ended up being your standard otome fair, introduce a bunch of boys, romance a bunch of boys, etc. I guess at least they seemed to picked one of them so woo progress?
Well this ended. Somewhat. Other than basically saying go play the games!
Anyway, what started with an amusing premise ended up being your standard otome fair, introduce a bunch of boys, romance a bunch of boys, etc. I guess at least they seemed to picked one of them so woo progress?
dakkumauji
Member
Gunjou Senki 07
Hideyoshi comes in and ruins everyone's day!
Hideyoshi comes in and ruins everyone's day!
dakkumauji
Member
Self 08
The many uses of konjac.
The many uses of konjac.
I don't define my average by the industry average. If I did that, my standards would just be horrendously low.
But I do suppose 'average' is a worse fate than 'dislike/hate', primarily because average means the female character is about as memorable and distinctive as a fish in panel 3.
Also, I think it is worse than average to be positioned as some 'strong female character' type with substantial powers for two arcs and then be jobbing to all of the new male characters with have higher power levels. It just means the author gave up the pretense of actually caring about his female characters as characters. It's a shallow trick.
the anime makes the women even shallower
AquaWateria
Member
Spoilers Spoilers Spoilers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do not read this if you do not want to be Spoiled!
Man I know people have opinions, but sheesh your real hard on it. Anyways here's my takes on it. I'll admit the beginning of AOT was better than Tokyo Ghoul, but there's a difference. In Tokyo Ghoul's case it was literally building up for the things to come as it progresses, while AOT had something happen straight out the gateway. Also as a whole Tokyo Ghoul is far better and well developed than AOT for many reasons. The Author Ishida Sui of Tokyo Ghoul skillfully crafts his story by adding symbolism and foreshadowing adequately, which helps strengthen his characters and story. Isayama does use forshadowing and at times can be subtle but in most cases it's not. It's usually thrown in your face, I mean who couldn't have seriously predicted Annie being a Titan.
Okay I have to point out the Kaneki comparison to Akira Yamato because that's not true. The reason I say this is because Kaneki always gets ass beat. He isn't like some OP character your trying to suggest. He got his ass handed to him by Shachi like it was nothing and by Arima he got massacred. His character is truly a common tragic hero not some wannabe Jesus character. In the beginning he wasn't anybody special, he was just your ordinary college kid, who suddenly had supernatural things happen to him. As the story progresses you see him struggle to overcome hardships, his psychological personality disorder, and his mother's habit he had acquired. The second half may have battles but it still doen't throw away the psychological themes. Did you see the part with when Kaneki went insane and attacked Banjou. He clearly was psychologically affected. Even the battle with Arima clearly showed his psychological struggles. As he started talking to his old self through his mind.Or even when you see Kaneki struggling to overcome his Kakuja when in his mind he sees Yamori and Rize taking over. It's really beyond me how you could miss that.
Calling the characters of Tokyo Ghoul average is an overstatement because they are far from that. These characters aren't your typical one dimensional characters. Most if not all are developed subtley through Tarot cards, which helps deepen their characters.
You do not usually see a Mangaka if not at all use Tarot cards to define a character. Suzuya has the number 13 which is the Death Arcana. It clearly describes him as a character who will transition into a new state or eliminate old patterns. Which is all true and he was one of the most developed character in the series. There's also Kaneki with the number 12 Hanged Man arcana, Seido with 15 Devil Arcana, Touka with the 12 Priestess Arcana, and etc. So what I'm saying is that these characters are far more developed than you are giving them credit for because they are well written. Fuck even the seemingly Villains are well developed through subtle hints and tiny details.
Seriously these Characters were hinted way back to be the opposing force and we're all developed through tiny hints.
So please give me a reason on why the characters of AOT are better. Eren is the most terrible Shonen character I've seen in manga. I mean his character is basically him being a rash idiot who spouts nonsense such as wanting to kill every Titan ever. But when the time comes he gets kidnapped and then turns into a little shit. All he does is talk the talk but doesn't walk the walk. Now onto Mikasa, so she's a well written character because shes a badass welp. Like she's just a stoic, one dimensional, and unlikeable character. All she does is jump on Eren's dick, with Eren this and Eren that. I could go on because most of the characters in AOT are one dimensional.
Lastly please don't compare Tokyo Ghoul to Terra Formars because Terra Formars is beyond garbage. Man now that I think about it I could of written more if I wanted to. Anyways sorry for this long written essay or whatever you wanna call it. Onto Punpun.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
I don't know about you guys, but I have the sneaking suspicion Aquawateria likes Tokyo ghoul
dakkumauji
Member
Uchi no Maou Kamimasen yo 13
The crushing reality of mermaids.
The crushing reality of mermaids.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
AquaWateria
Member
Punpun Chapter 1
This was a pretty good chapter, but I have a question is there a reason why Punpun looks like that compared to everyone else? I mean it kinda looks bizarre in a way.
Anyways man that whole chapter was pretty sweet, especially Punpun wondering about his dream. God I can tell some terrible things are gonna happen as the story progresses. Tears are definitely gonna be shed. Gonna read some more.
This was a pretty good chapter, but I have a question is there a reason why Punpun looks like that compared to everyone else? I mean it kinda looks bizarre in a way.
Anyways man that whole chapter was pretty sweet, especially Punpun wondering about his dream. God I can tell some terrible things are gonna happen as the story progresses. Tears are definitely gonna be shed. Gonna read some more.
Not really.
What are you talking about? Only 13,9% of AquaWateria's posts are about Tokyo Ghoul!
Artistic choice.
AquaWateria
Member
Okay I see, I guess it makes it sorta unique in a way.
Also
13,9% 😌
dakkumauji
Member
Ookami Shounen wa Kyou mo Uso o Kasaneru 02
They are in such a family of nosebleeders.
They are in such a family of nosebleeders.
SCUM
Coriolanus
Banned
Dunno about that. What i do know, having read up to chap 82, is that for some 75+% of that, the female was the stronger character in relation to the lead, and the first ghoul introduced in the story is still referred to as horrendously strong, which is why she had to be taken out with extreme prejudice. Then we finally got to see what the results of taking the ogre female out were, namely, shit for everybody else.
At which point the lead finally got some character development, power boost and the like, and surpassed his female mentor. Ok. While using a female ghoul's power. Or kanuge, or whatever was the silly name the author invented.
Shortly after, on the human side, a new female character that is apparently far more mentally strong than the men was introduced.
That's where i stopped, so whatever, may change later. At this point, tho? Decent track record. Sustaining a power lead for more than 50 chaps aint no trick.
Really weird that you reacted to strongly to a female that jobbed most males for so long finally being jobbed.
Dedication Through Light
Member
Boring is not what I would use to describe Yamada. Only wholly good romcom that I have read.
Dedication Through Light
Member
You got your dates wrong since thats not Wakamatsu.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
How i stalked some dude with an exposed nipple vo.2 ch.9
Laughing my ass off.
The plot thicken. Where's the old man? What the hell really happen?
Fucking Baki. Badass in previous chapter, now he goes naked again for whatever reason.
Laughing my ass off.
The plot thicken. Where's the old man? What the hell really happen?
Fucking Baki. Badass in previous chapter, now he goes naked again for whatever reason.
Should I read this and Ciruglgeifjdfdsiouf.... I forgot how to write the name...
This makes me feel. Btw, whatever happen to that manga where this dude saw his little step mom send him an image text of her in a swimsuit and he was losing it?
AquaWateria
Member
Punpun Chapter 2
Poor Punpun he sure does have it hard. But damn his father seems to have some anger issues. Anyways Punpun's Uncle seems pretty cool.
Also what the living fuck is up with some of the Adults expressions, looks like they are going nuts or something.The art is pretty good though.
Poor Punpun he sure does have it hard. But damn his father seems to have some anger issues. Anyways Punpun's Uncle seems pretty cool.
Also what the living fuck is up with some of the Adults expressions, looks like they are going nuts or something.The art is pretty good though.
My assessment of Tokyo Ghoul has always been, "Not particularly bad, but also not particularly good". In other words, it's readable, but nothing to write home about. It's in the same place I slot Nogami Neuro.
You can keep going on and on showing tarot card hints and 'foreshadowing' and all that jazz, but it just reminds me of the people who harp on and on about symbolism in Evangelion. Which is to say you're like a guy who thinks a lady who asks him to buy a mattress for her wants to have sex with him; you're reading too much into it. The so-called careful development and 'symbolism' and 'hints' are largely irrelevant to the actual storytelling: Kaneki is a human who became a half ghoul through sheer bad luck, and his existence as half and half is supposed to question humanity's coexistence with other species, particularly one that is higher on the food chain. Problem: those questions are tossed aside once he powers up through a torture sequence and the plot becomes less about human-ghoul relations and more about SEKRIT ORGANIZATION MAKING GHOULS ETC. I want us to understand each other, so let's have a power level fight! Mental instability increased because of plot details, time to have another fight! And so on. Unquestionably straightforward shounen fight-to-fight storytelling, predictably boring.
My comparison to Kira Yamato stems largely from one incident I found somewhat similar to Kaneki's progression. Kira gets blown up by his friend and wakes up with his friend's fiancee, and abruptly gets an enormous powerup in his convictions and fighting abilities. The torture sequence for Kaneki does the same; perhaps you can say the reflections on his mother and all the time spent psychologically running around during the torture is part of his development into a powerful ghoul, except that it doesn't make sense. He became a madman to escape; minutes after that he returned to 'normal' mental state except now with significantly more power. Ha. What did I miss? I missed the part where he slid back into sanity so suddenly he's a functional, plotting human being the same night he lost his mind. Why did I miss this part? Because it never existed. He just walked out of there and he was powerful.
Perhaps then it was 'setup' for the second half. The so-called psychological themes you speak of is in every other good manga, it's called drama. For Tokyo Ghoul, Kaneki's internal conflicts lasted far too long. There's only so much to take of one person struggling to stay sane with no progression. He always feels like he's hit by a truck with every plot revelation and there's endless angst without character development. Reading about the opposition was a breath of air and their inclusion into the story with chapters of their own was probably necessary because Kaneki was such a drag. It's like watching a South Korean soap opera: there's way too much garbage happening in the middle of the romance because the show needs to be X episodes long, so it stretches until the romance is a bore.
If you can tell me what insightful thing the second part of Tokyo Ghoul had to say about being human, being ghoul, relation between humans and ghouls, and society or generally just anything it introduced as themes in the first part, you're welcome to try. What the second part is concerned with is the personal drama of Kaneki, and of the ghoul investigators. But those personal dramas don't tie to statements about humans/ghouls. It's just standard character drama. I barely remember anything about those stories other than Amon trying to get with the daughter of his former partner (I don't even remember her name or his boss's name) and something about why the girly boy remains girly due to his balls getting cut off.
It's no good if your characters are getting development subtly through numbers drawn in the pictures. Did FF13 have good character development because you could read all of the characters' thoughts and feelings in the menu? No. If I have to look up with the Death Tarot card means in order to better understand a character, what good is the writing? See my statement above about Evangelion. The number of crosses in the scenery do not translate to how deep the characters or story are. Many Tokyo Ghoul characters are actually quite one-dimensional despite your assignation of 'tarot cards' ('concocted depth') to their characters. The bulk of character development is invested in Kaneki. Touka, despite her so-called position as heroine, receives very little development and the 'Prietess' arcana SAYS NOTHING about how her perspectives or resolve changes. She plays practically no role in the second half of Tokyo Ghoul. Suzuya? Likes killing. Is in perpetual 'learning to be human' stereotype until the very end where he finally receives development through the death of another character who plays teacher stereotype. The characters are not well written; they're hardly written.
I don't remember who the villains are. Some well-developed villains they are. Lol.
My assessment of Attack on Titan, currently, is "This is still going in a direction I didn't expect it to". I'm not under any delusion that AoT is the best shounen ever or that it is a super deep amazing story with amazing characters. What I can respect is that the author took an unusual direction that practically nobody who likes shounen liked. That he could have continued down the human suffering and futile fight against Titans route but he didn't (the route that Tokyo Ghoul took!). Which ironically leads to AoT being oddly more seinen feeling than Tokyo Ghoul.
If I am to evaluate AoT's characters, I would say my opinion of them is about the same as my opinion of Tokyo Ghoul characters: they're not well written, they're hardly written. The upside to AoT's cast is that for all of the clamoring about Levi, he's less of a Jesus than Arima.
Your evaluation of Mikasa shows that you like girls who are pretty for scenery (Touka) and not girls who have some past development and the potential to grow more (Mikasa). I dislike the aspect of Mikasa that is fixated on Eren; however, she is not depicted jobbing to other characters after having some portrayal of how strong she is, unlike Touka. AoT rightfully tempers Mikasa's strength due to her limited combat experience; I feel like she doesn't play second fiddle to Levi because he's just more powerful, but rather with more combat experience and a thirst for blood Mikasa could outstrip those who are currently better fighters than her. Touka is floored when her brother arrives on the scene, despite having in just a past arc defeating a supposedly powerful ghoul. And then she virtually disappears from the plot. Mikasa on the other hand operates with Armin and the other rookies when the Titans gain entry to Trost; despite the absence of Eren she works with Levi and performs as a focused soldier equal to the position of 'first' that she was attributed with during their training days. Mikasa doesn't get shafted like Touka. But obviously, you're more into hunting for 'symbolic' numbers in artwork than in properly evaluating characters that are not in your favorite manga.
Currently I consider AoT better than Tokyo Ghoul purely due to the progression being more interesting than what happened in Tokyo Ghoul.
I wonder if my writing is just that poor that the comparison between AoT, Tokyo Ghoul, Terra Formars, and Parasyte for this, "The Japanese market for the past two, three years hungered for man vs. monster stories that portray men as something darker than your usual righteous justice against evil powers." is taken as a direct comparison of anything between all of the mentioned stories. Or is it poor reading comprehension clouded by bias that cannot bear a superficial comparison to an unpleasant manga to illustrate a point about the audience in Japan?
Because a guy using a female's power to win a fight is the same as a female character winning a fight. Right.
Another victim is claimed. snakesalute.jpeg
Murciélago is pretty fun, though I wouldn't call it a romance series.
Not sure which is the other series you're alluding to. Spirit Circle? If so, yes, of course.
No idea what manga you're talking about.
I prefer the term "future mentally enriched reader".
lol zweizer, i guess ill ask my above question to everyone. someone posted the raws for it. also, ive read spirit circle, GOAT stuff. The one I'm talking about was from Asano as well, Cira34342tksg something, I know the first letter is a C lol
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