Support NeoGAF

[travisbickle]

I watched the video and it was obvious to me that the PS4 was the superior version, both in graphical detail and framerate.

The text paints a different picture though. Dunno why.

Because it's written by Richard Leadbetter.

But the main problem is the overall narrative about the 2 consoles that every issue is either because of CPU or GPU when there's are a lot more to development then just parsing code between the two. But I don't think DF want to write an article stating there's a difference but they don't know why because they don't have access to the code or development environments where it was created and instead say "that's the extra CPU/GPU".

 

[boredandlazy]

Well, if anything, Leadbetter certainly chooses his words carefully. His bit about the cpu is simply conjecture. It feels like he's trying to make the two versions seem closer than they really are, but why? It's quite curious.

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question?

 

[AgentP]

Well, if anything, Leadbetter certainly chooses his words carefully. His bit about the cpu is simply conjecture. It feels like he's trying to make the two versions seem closer than they really are, but why? It's quite curious.

Just read his stuff from the beginning and even before DF, back at B3D. Its no secret.

 

[AmyS]

Would everyone here agree the graphics on PS4 in every respect surpasses the graphics of the last-gen reveal trailer for GTA V from November 2011?

http://www.rockstargames.com/V/videos/video/8001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkkoHAzjnUs

Or not ?

 

[Puppet Shadow]

I dunno. Dropping frames in one specific area of the city is one thing but dropping frames in all shoot outs is another.

I'll be getting this on PC so I don't really have a horse in this race, but ya... I'd put up with a few bad intersections downtown if it meant shoots are a solid 30.

 

[Piggus]

Actually, AI routines typically spend about 90% of their time doing pathfinding and determining visibility — what the actor can see and hear. The GPU happens to be really good at those particular calculations, so they can be offloaded to reduce the burden on the CPU by an order of magnitude.

Yes, GPUs are good at number crunching, and CPUs are good at branchy decision making. The problem is, because it's easy and they're used to it, a lot of devs still do a lot of their number crunching on the CPU, leaving little time for the branchy decision making. Plus, on most PCs, it's a little harder to get data back and forth between the CPU and GPU, which limits what you can do if you need to support PCs without unified memory.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Chiaroscuro]

They did it for the PSP.

Sony underclocked it on purpose at release, to increase battery time. Not the same situation, not the same bottlenecks.

 

[interfreak]

Would everyone here agree the graphics on PS4 in every respect surpasses the graphics of the last-gen reveal trailer for GTA V from November 2011?

http://www.rockstargames.com/V/videos/video/8001
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkkoHAzjnUs

Or not ?

There's no question about that.

But there is a difference between the PS4 and XB1 versions.

 

[AmyS]

There's no question about that.

I'd say so myself.

But there is a difference between the PS4 and XB1 versions.

Yeah indeed, there certainly is.

 

[Shogmaster]

The only Atom it does not compete with is the latest one that was released after the consoles came out. It is still faster than any tablet SOC by a good margin.

It came out about the same time as something like Z3740D. While they bench about the same (CPU only), the Jaguar core is not as efficient as Atom Z series. That's why you see almost no tablets using it.

While I might have been exaggerating about dual core Apple A8 running circles around 8 core jaguar running around 1.6GHz, it's not far from the truth. Single core benches for A8 simply destroys single core Jaguar.

I know that MS and Sony's goals are to get the SOCs smaller and smaller over time to get making these consoles as cheap as possible, but their choice of Jaguar is hampering a great deal of things for both platforms (such as laggy and unresponsive OSes, slow decryption and decompression, and even copying files from BD and downloading from cloud to internal disc drives).

Ultimately, I believe that the poor choice of CPU in their power envelope will either limit the lifespan of both consoles (more so than the GPUs), or will give more ground to tablets and phones of the gaming marketshare than planned, or both. It's no secret that already, tablet and phone CPUs have surpassed both consoles in CPU power, especially for their still high price points. Their only saving grace power wise, are the GPU and the RAM count. And that's not going to last long.

 

[Shaneus]

They went to 20, high teens at worst. They rarely actually hit 30 during regular gameplay, regularly hovering in the mid to upper 20's. It's a categorical improvement in framerate in every regard for the new systems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbYyMq4cGU

Fantastic, thanks. I think compared to last-gen, the near-30 would be far less jarring than nowhere-near-30.

 

[PhatSaqs]

There's no question about that.

But there is a difference between the PS4 and XB1 versions.

However anally slight, yes there sure is.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I knew the PS4 version was dropping frames. Glad to see DF confirm this.

Yep, I pointed out the same the minute I started playing the game. It was obvious. It never feels like the framerate is a constant 30. It'd be nice if R* patched it.

 

[Shaneus]

I'd play with less grass if it meant it was always on a flat 30 on PS4.

 

[brerwolfe]

Holy hell. If you have the game, you're enjoying it. The very few times a frame might drop are barely noticeable and not at all deal breakers.

The game is fun. The amount of things you cab do are almost overwhelming. The frame rate is acceptable and mostly exceptional.

When did people turn into such frame snobs?

 

[leng jai]

Holy hell. If you have the game, you're enjoying it. The very few times a frame might drop are barely noticeable and not at all deal breakers.

The game is fun. The amount of things you cab do are almost overwhelming. The frame rate is acceptable and mostly exceptional.

When did people turn into such frame snobs?

It's easily noticeable when you're driving (which is a significant portion of the time). By what standards is a remaster at 30fps with drops "exceptional"?

 

[travisbickle]

I'd play with less grass if it meant it was always on a flat 30 on PS4.

Not much grass when you're driving though city intersections. Maybe programming a stable frame rate in a video game isn't as simple as adding/removing grass?

 

[Shaneus]

Not much grass when you're driving though city intersections. Maybe programming a stable frame rate in a video game isn't as simple as adding/removing grass?

It was a semi-facetious comment

 

[DBT85]

Holy hell. If you have the game, you're enjoying it. The very few times a frame might drop are barely noticeable and not at all deal breakers.

The game is fun. The amount of things you cab do are almost overwhelming. The frame rate is acceptable and mostly exceptional.

When did people turn into such frame snobs?

In a technical thread? Someone open the history book, when DID framerate, resolution, IQ etc become important in a technical thread?

 

[Sakura]

I don't really understand why they shipped these consoles with such underpowered CPUs. Surely a CPU with a slightly better clock rate wouldn't have broken the bank would it?

 

[edornob]

SNES VS GENESIS:
BUT MORTAL KOMBAT HAS BLOOD!

 

[RedAssedApe]

SNES VS GENESIS:
BUT MORTAL KOMBAT HAS BLOOD!

the genesis mk1 played better than the snes one. mk2 was legit better than the genesis version in every way though.

 

[travisbickle]

I don't really understand why they shipped these consoles with such underpowered CPUs. Surely a CPU with a slightly better clock rate wouldn't have broken the bank would it?

I think it's just the same as it's always been, in that the console manufacturers made a judgement call on what to put into their console and developers have to design to take advantage of it. You'll always have developers not designing to a consoles strengths and the criticism that it's the console manufacturers choice of components.

 

[Montresor]

DigitalFoundry should set up a retro version of their web site.

Digital Foundry faceoff: Aladdin SNES and Genesis comparison:

One of the most remarkable and fascinating discoveries is that the final boss fight against Jafar seems to perform significantly better with the SNES. The Genesis boasts an extra 16 kilobytes of unified GDDR5 RAM, so we have to wonder, is it being put to use? Or are the intense particle effects during Jafar's second boss form CPU-bound, allowing the SNES's modest, but not negligible, extra 0.01 MegaHertz in its CPU core to outshine its Sega counterpart? Stay tuned for the full analysis later this week.

 

[SapientWolf]

Holy hell. If you have the game, you're enjoying it. The very few times a frame might drop are barely noticeable and not at all deal breakers.

The game is fun. The amount of things you cab do are almost overwhelming. The frame rate is acceptable and mostly exceptional.

When did people turn into such frame snobs?

People are double dipping solely for the improved graphics and framerate. The gameplay is mostly the same. And now it sounds like the framerate is still a problem. Our last hope is the PC port.

 

[alexandros]

How about you wait a couple of years before you call either consoles weak.

The consoles can still perform better than they do now and be called weak at the same time. The hardware is still the same.

Pretty bloody disappointing they couldn't get it locked at 30. God help us with GTA6, it's going to be a slideshow.

Yeah. I still think Rockstar should have gone for 60 fps over improved graphics, unless it was impossible for technical reasons.

 

[serversurfer]

Thanks for the info!

No problem. It seems like there are a lot of misconceptions about the overall utility of GPGPU. I think that's mostly due to the fact that yes, the use cases are somewhat limited, so the conversation usually just ends there. But while GPGPU may not get much chance to shine, when it does, it shines very brightly indeed.

The trick is, identifying areas where you can benefit from GPGPU, then actually doing it. If you're not doing that, you can't really claim to have hit the limits of the system.

 

[alexandros]

No problem. It seems like there are a lot of misconceptions about the overall utility of GPGPU. I think that's mostly due to the fact that yes, the use cases are somewhat limited, so the conversation usually just ends there. But while GPGPU may not get much chance to shine, when it does, it shines very brightly indeed.

The trick is, identifying areas where you can benefit from GPGPU, then actually doing it. If you're not doing that, you can't really claim to have hit the limits of the system.

Is it possible to utilize GPGPU on all available major platforms? Is it reasonably easy to implement, does it require more work or a significant change in game coding?

 

[Sakura]

I think it's just the same as it's always been, in that the console manufacturers made a judgement call on what to put into their console and developers have to design to take advantage of it. You'll always have developers not designing to a consoles strengths and the criticism that it's the console manufacturers choice of components.

Sure but I think open world games are always going to be CPU intensive. Having such a low end CPU just seems so short sighted to me.

 

[travisbickle]

Sure but I think open world games are always going to be CPU intensive. Having such a low end CPU just seems so short sighted to me.

I'm going to wait until we see some PS4 first party heavyweights show what they can do. Anything can be intensive if it's not well managed, look at the first year of PS3 third parties, FIFA ran like shit frame rate wise and it was nothing to do with the CPU.

 

[dark10x]

The consoles can still perform better than they do now and be called weak at the same time. The hardware is still the same.

Yeah. I still think Rockstar should have gone for 60 fps over improved graphics, unless it was impossible for technical reasons.

Normally if agree but the visual improvements here are substantial. It looks dramatically better than the original release.

 

[Putty]

Normally if agree but the visual improvements here are substantial. It looks dramatically better than the original release.

I think a lot don't see it, but I certainly appreciate the considerable tech boost. It's a shame it does drop now and again but in the bigger scheme of things I can absolutely accept it.

 

[leadbelly]

Grass has never been this cinematic.

No, seriously am I missing something here? Why is a last-gen up-port enhanced it may be chugging sub-30? Devs stop feeding this slop to us and demanding 60 dollars for it.

It's not chugging along at a sub-30fps, it has occasional drops in specific areas under certain circumstances. The game runs solidly for most of the time.

 

[goonergaz]

It's not chugging along at a sub-30fps, it has occasional drops in specific areas under certain circumstances. The game runs solidly for most of the time.

yeah, folk need to understand even when driving in busy areas the game is mostly solid, these issues seem to lower the framerate to the best the PS3/X360 got to lol

between the 2 clearly the PS4 version is better overall, the drops during gunplay are quite a margin at times...but still much better than last gen (and that was playable)

 

[Sid]

Is Xbone's CPU more powerful than the one in PS4?

 

[woen]

Having a lot of run replaying the game from the beginning, despite some shitty mission designs. The FP mode is not great (especially the gunplay) but I like using it when using all sorts of vehicules.

The pop-in of the new foliage is really annoying though, worse than the pedestrians in AC:Unity imho.

 

[Pathfinder]

Is Xbone's CPU more powerful than the one in PS4?

Slightly faster. Same CPU family if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Lemondish]

Holy hell. If you have the game, you're enjoying it. The very few times a frame might drop are barely noticeable and not at all deal breakers.

The game is fun. The amount of things you cab do are almost overwhelming. The frame rate is acceptable and mostly exceptional.

When did people turn into such frame snobs?

How people still seem to unintentionally enter into a thread talking about res and fr differences and whine about it is beyond me.

Spoiler

DON'T FORGET TO REMEMBER ABOUT THE FUN GUYS

 

[leadbelly]

yeah, folk need to understand even when driving in busy areas the game is mostly solid, these issues seem to lower the framerate to the best the PS3/X360 got to lol

between the 2 clearly the PS4 version is better overall, the drops during gunplay are quite a margin at times...but still much better than last gen (and that was playable)

The new framerate test is testing the framerate under various circumstances. In terms of the driving for instance, it shows the dips at junctions when they are at their worse.

If you watch the PS4 or Xbox One specific tests though, you see that it runs solid for the most part.

PS4 version. There is a prolonged section of him just driving around town, with a pretty consistent framerate throughout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxzCRlH3BOw#t=578

Based on what has been shown, the PS4 version probably has the edge, but the Xbox One has some advantages in certain circumstances when driving past junctions.

 

[Basketball]

 

[KainXVIII]

But there are fewer cars on XB1 screen.

 

[Windom Earle]

It never feels like the framerate is a constant 30. It'd be nice if R* patched it.

I don't agree and it's also factually incorrect. And if you want a 100% locked 30, go to the desert area.

 

[mike4001_]

But there are fewer cars on XB1 screen.

I count the same.

 

[adamsapple]

But there are fewer cars on XB1 screen.

i hope this isn't a serious post.

@topic.
Looks like the same case as last gen.
PS has a better looking version with some visual advantages.
Xbox has a better playing version with an small average framerate advantage.

 

[Basketball]

But there are fewer cars on XB1 screen.

no there's not

that billboard looking thing on the bottem left of xb1 screen is a truck

 

[Alienous]

I don't agree and it's also factually incorrect. And if you want a 100% locked 30, go to the desert area.

I want to have this framed.

 

[dwr budr]

xbox one dipping to 18 frames in some of the shootout sections - wow, how does that compare to ps360 ?

 

[Windom Earle]

I want to have this framed.

Sure, print it and put it on your wall.

Edit: By the way, Xbone does drop a ton of frames in the desert when looking at the video.

I know that my statement sounds stupid, but the guy said that it never "feels" like 30fps, which is simply not true.

I will also buy the PC version to get rid of any framedrops in January. Until then this version is pretty serviceable.

 

[Norml]

xbox one dipping to 18 frames in some of the shootout sections - wow, how does that compare to ps360 ?

The one shoot-out clip has xbone under 30fps the whole time and it's 30 seconds long!

 

[demolitio]

i hope this isn't a serious post.

@topic.
Looks like the same case as last gen.
PS has a better looking version with some visual advantages.
Xbox has a better playing version with an small average framerate advantage.

If by playing GTA, you mean driving around the city and never getting into firefights, then yes.