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Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT2| Nintendo All-Stars Battle Quarter Pounder
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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Not sure if you're joking or not, but I mentioned that ;\ And Dota, Halo 1, 2, & Gears of War 1. Halo 2 and Gears were played actively for years despite glitches being unintuitive and actively increasing the skill gap and ceiling. Dota 1 was ridiculously obtuse to play online but had a massive sustained population. Dota 2 and League are the biggest games of today.
"They're team games". The most played mode in Smash is most likely FFA, in which you can go in with a friend and learn how they're wrecking you. They're is also the 2v2 option. Quoting you because I agree and feel this point is sufficient, meh.
Yeah. It's really not a very fun mode, and the fights at the end are the closest thing to special brawls in the game, sadly.
Man, I might get some flack for this, but if not for the core combat being so damn good, this version would easily be my least favorite in the series. It feels so light on content. I mean, it's got more content than 64 and arguably Melee, but a large, large portion of that content isn't stuff I've liked.
MannyToons
Member
Now that I think about it, the hitstun is probably unchanged, it's just that acting out of it isn't possible anymore. Eh.
It's not a change for the better. It doesn't add anything to the grab game. It hurts combo ability. Something I would consider "just a change" is the ledge mechanic. You can't gimp anyone, but everyone can recover now and it encourages jumping off the stage to actively prevent them from coming back.
OH MAN, I forgot they got rid of Special Matches too! No more stamina.... ;_;
The Xtortionist
Member
Pro-style 1v1 should ideally exist as both a ranked and unranked matchmaking option. It's an incredibly popular way to play. No reason why someone who's new to the game or trying to learn a specific character should be forced into a more competitive environment just to play a common ruleset.
Stamina seemingly is at least in the debugging for the Wii U version.
BertleTheTurtle
Member
The giant yoshi glitch is still in the US version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u9NV-da3PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u9NV-da3PM
KittenMaster
Member
It also killed chain grabs though, so I think it's ultimately a more positive change than negative.
It's identical to Brawl Home Run Contest.
So I guess if you liked it in Brawl, you'd like it here? HRC was always a thing I did just to unlock trophies or whatever. Never really found it fun.
Smash Run is really fucking boring. 5 minutes is WAY too long to run around that level collecting stuff, especially considering you kinda have to do it multiple times to unlock custom movesets.
The pay off at the end of the 5 minutes usually isn't very good, either. The majority of the time, after running around for 5 minutes collecting power and speed boosts... the match is a sudden death match. GREAT. A mode where my jabs are going to kill my opponent in one shot. Why did I just spend 5 minutes searching for stat boosts again?
....what
After hearing about no proper single player mode, I was going in the whole time thinking these were, at the very least, still present. holy shit
There is no traditional break the targets mode. Instead, there's this weird shit where you have to damage and smash a bomb to the right side of the screen (kinda like Home Run Contest), where it will explode into various blocks, resulting in targets being broken. It's really, really dumb.
No event matches or break the targets. You know, the good single player modes from Smash Bros. Unless Wii U does something special, Melee is still the single player champion of the franchise.
Actually, to kill chain grabs, they implemented a mechanic where you can't regrab for a brief time.
Shamrock7r
Member
I've already seen as much combos with some characters in Smash4 as I've seen in Competitive Brawl.
As for the other aspects and changes, I wouldn't consider them better or worse yet, as the meta game is just so early. One change I think will make for much more competitive opportunities is the edge game mechanics. Makes a lot more characters viable too.
Man, this game, lol.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
no
CDs were horrible
Fighting game developers have had and will continue to have to make major concessions to make their games appeal to the casual market. A market that doesn't tend to use internet forums and other social media - at least not nearly to the extent those more invested tend to - which makes them invisible to many of us. A market that makes up the vast majority of the player base and source of income for any game. A market that is often impeded by a lot of the basic tenants of fighting game design (1v1 means you can't ever blame a loss on anybody but yourself, you need to exert a lot of effort to gain competency, the AWFUL matchmaking system that most/all fighting games have, etc.). I don't envy them.
Also, whenever someone says the words "dumbed down", I get super skeptical. Even if you don't like a change, there's a difference between making your own game shitty and trying to make a game better appeal to more people. Those who use "dumb down" unironically are way too often for my tastes incapable of seeing games from any perspective other than from their own
In terms of general game design (so not just Smash but other games as well), the point has never been to allow a scrub to always defeat a pro or for such a matchup to go 50/50. That's never been the point and I swear when someone says something of the sort I feel they are putting up a strawman. The point has always been that there are elements of a game that can make it less appealing for the casual audience and developers have to be VERY aware of that when trying to make games for a broad audience. There are issues intrinsic to the fighting game genre that keep it a niche genre that have to be fought against - the high barrier to entry is amongst the biggest issue and that ties a lot into issues with complexity and what not. I think its fine to critique the actual implementation in games, Brawl for example, but the philosophy is widely practiced and is something developers who make more traditional fighting game battle with as well.
I'd be careful
I feel you could use this to say you could make the series SUPER hardcore or on the flipside just put out some garbage and slap the Smash name on it and it wouldn't matter. Standard game design principles matter either way.
What? FFA isn't the same at all as team game like LOL or many FPS games. When you lose in those games, you get to blame your teammates (even if it was your fault), when you lose in FFA its your own damn fault. The fact that Smash Bros even lets you play FFA or 2v2 gives it a big leg up compared to other fighting games but it still has to battle a lot of the same psychological issues that other fighting games have to. Trying to make a comparison between Smash and LOL, etc. tells me you haven't taken enough time to really think about the distinct differences between the genres.
Also, whenever someone says the words "dumbed down", I get super skeptical. Even if you don't like a change, there's a difference between making your own game shitty and trying to make a game better appeal to more people. Those who use "dumb down" unironically are way too often for my tastes incapable of seeing games from any perspective other than from their own
In terms of general game design (so not just Smash but other games as well), the point has never been to allow a scrub to always defeat a pro or for such a matchup to go 50/50. That's never been the point and I swear when someone says something of the sort I feel they are putting up a strawman. The point has always been that there are elements of a game that can make it less appealing for the casual audience and developers have to be VERY aware of that when trying to make games for a broad audience. There are issues intrinsic to the fighting game genre that keep it a niche genre that have to be fought against - the high barrier to entry is amongst the biggest issue and that ties a lot into issues with complexity and what not. I think its fine to critique the actual implementation in games, Brawl for example, but the philosophy is widely practiced and is something developers who make more traditional fighting game battle with as well.
I'd be careful
I feel you could use this to say you could make the series SUPER hardcore or on the flipside just put out some garbage and slap the Smash name on it and it wouldn't matter. Standard game design principles matter either way.What? FFA isn't the same at all as team game like LOL or many FPS games. When you lose in those games, you get to blame your teammates (even if it was your fault), when you lose in FFA its your own damn fault. The fact that Smash Bros even lets you play FFA or 2v2 gives it a big leg up compared to other fighting games but it still has to battle a lot of the same psychological issues that other fighting games have to. Trying to make a comparison between Smash and LOL, etc. tells me you haven't taken enough time to really think about the distinct differences between the genres.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
I didn't say it was a good change. I just don't think that counts as dumbing it down.
If they had done something like given every character only one throw instead of four, that would've been dumbing it down.
tonyh24613
Member
I think one WiiU and multiple 3DS can solve the problem of collecting custom moves.
WrenchNinja
Member
Thanks for the information guys. Guess I'll pick this up when I can find it for cheaper.
Hoagmaster
Member
So close yet so far.
Wait, you don't interact with the other players in Smash Run? Aren't you all in the same map? I thought that was the whole point to sharing a map O_O
We have more than 4x the number of playable characters now. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
If they add Event Matches or personal BTT stages though later through DLC or something I'm def on board though.
We have more than 4x the number of playable characters now. That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make.
If they add Event Matches or personal BTT stages though later through DLC or something I'm def on board though.
Shamrock7r
Member
I know this has probably been discussed already, but are there any plans for a NeoGaf online smash tourney for 3ds?
KLatin Scelus
Member
Why's that?
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yep, Shulk didn't have Monado: Purge so I wish that it would be in the game so it would prevent people from using their own special moves.
KittenMaster
Member
Actually this is not always true, IMO. Most of the time when you die in a FFA game it's because somebody gets the jump on an isolated fight between other players, and whichever player gets chosen as that oncoming player's target will get ganged on (unless 3rd player has some kind of way to kill them both at once). It's why you never see FFA as an accepted competitive format in a lot of games.
A) It's a Nintendo game, it ain't price dropping soon
B) This game has more multiplayer content than any other entry in the franchise ever. Why is the single-player content influencing your choice?
Cosmic Dreams
Member
Bash sisters and I think something else.
I'd be careful
In a sense, both Brawl and Melee have proven as much.
NO I DID NOT TAKE SHOTS AT YOUR FAVORITE SMASH BETWEEN THE TWO
YES YOU
THE ONE THAT CLICKED THIS AND READ IT
YES YOU
THE ONE THAT CLICKED THIS AND READ IT
You are right though. Smash is just such a fascinating anomaly to think about sometimes. It walks and talks like a fighting game but is atypical enough in overall game play design, content and potential audience that you can't always rely on parallels even though enough exists to make them.
Nope. It's easily the most dissappointing thing about the mode. Well, that and that the combat has all the issues of the SSE, respawning is handled in the worst possible way, the end challenge isn't a satsifying reward, and there aren't different strategies like there is in Air Ride.
Nah, it doesn't. It's definitely on the lower side in terms of multiplayer content.
Sometimes I question Sakurai's discretion on resource allocation. There was a lot of superfluous stuff in Brawl that I would not have missed if they were left out of the game, like stamps, SSE, and the trophy shooter minigame. This time I would have been totally fine with the exclusion equipment or Smash Run. Then other times it seems that the cool ideas Sakurai had just fails to live up to its potential with the weird limitations he places. Custom moves sound like a great idea...except you have to unlock all those move...and you can get duplicates...and you can't use them online. Or having Omega versions of stages being all Final Destination variants instead of having varying platform placements. I don't want to make it seem like he is a bad developer or anything because its clear he puts in a lot of work, but sometimes it feels like he needs a good number two or three to tell him he can push his ideas further.
Preach. Break the Targets, Event Matches, Adventure Mode, where have you gone?
Hopefully Wii U delivers on at least 1 front here. 51 unique BTT stages would be amazing.
Yeah, the lack of modes in the 3ds version is a bummer, especially since I have no plans to get a WiiU in the immediate future. If the only problem was that they couldn't fit in the cart, I'd be totally into more modes as DLC, honestly. Sell me things, Sakurai! I will buy them!
theprodigy
Member
A) It's a Nintendo game, it ain't price dropping soon
B) This game has more multiplayer content than any other entry in the franchise ever. Why is the single-player content influencing your choice?
dunno if he's in the UK, he probably can
A Link to the Past
Banned
Smash Run sounds REALLY awful. Should have just been an Adventure Mode with tons of enemies. What would be neat is if they made it randomly-generated, and took various enemies and stage parts to construct new and interesting paths. You could even have random final bosses, like
Metal Mario (super-strong version)
Wario-Man
Giga Bowser
Tabuu
Giga Mac
Mega Charizard
Mega Lucario
Dragon Yoshi
Octopus
etc.
Metal Mario (super-strong version)
Wario-Man
Giga Bowser
Tabuu
Giga Mac
Mega Charizard
Mega Lucario
Dragon Yoshi
Octopus
etc.
I don't really understand the point you are trying to make in your posts. It sounds like you want the game to be set up for people to just win half the time without any amount of devotion or care or actually playing it enough to be invested.
Either that or you have a long winded way of saying this:
If you're trying to say what this guy said, that's fair. I can understand your frustration, but I think casuals wanting free for all with items (for fun) and competitive players wanting no item matches (for glory), there's something for MOST people.
I think For Glory should make every stage like FD or Battlefield, but you know, I'm okay with the compromise.
His argument was that a game that is remotely difficult will scare people off, resulting in a lowered population that will hurt sales down the line. The obtuse mechanics that make the game remotely difficult being combo's (is this really that difficult) along with glitches and others. I pointed out various games that are either incredibly difficult, not easy to get into, or have glitches that were never taught that have had thriving communities in those games and grew down the line. Halo grew. Gears grew. Dota grew. League hasn't had successors, but it's become massively popular and doesn't show signs of stopping.
He refuted it saying that those are team games and teammates will be able to show you what you're doing wrong. Besides the obvious fallacy of those games all having equally poisonous communities where a teammate is as likely to piss in your eye as help you (if you're playing with a friend in one, chances are you'll play with one in Smash too). I compared it to Smash FFA's (which allows you to play with a friend or someone that could help you learn, on the off chance that this community isn't as poisonous even though we know it is), and Smash teams, since Smash has those modes too and he was claiming that it was mostly in 1v1 he was talking about.
Even there, you can look at StarCraft 2 or other fighting games. SC1 was popular for 10+ years and only died competitively a year or two ago. That game had obtuse mechanics up the butt. You could only control 8 units at a time, the AI on scarab drops was confusing as hell, etc etc. I don't know as much about the FGC, but thinking that a game having as high as a skill ceiling as melee will detract from sales down the line is ridiculous. Halo 3 sold better than 2, Reach was shit, and so was H4, yet both sold on the name alone. SC1 sold great and SC2 is doing well enough to merit 2 expansions. Smash will continue to sell well on the name alone, and claiming that making it have a higher skill ceiling will scare people off is ridiculous.
edit; This convo's dying off and I have class in the morning, so peace.
Don't try to make much sense out of it. Almost every phrase that Sakurai says is misinterpreted and then eternally used for ridiculous criticism.
Ah, glorious countdown gif! Thank you Heath
and with that....and the way the thread is at the moment....I'll just see myself out for a bit.
Totally agreed. On like every point.
It's amazing too that for how much people love Melee for its competitive aspects, it still has the best modes with no extra bullshit.
Green Mamba
Member
It does seem like the decision to make two versions has had a negative effect on content. Things shared between the two versions--characters, items, assists, etc. are positively bursting at the seams, but version specific things--like stages and single player modes--feel like the orphaned half of another Smash game that can't be completed. Given the choice I would much rather there be one fully complete Smash than two only partway there.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yes, you can use custom moves online against your friends but not random opponents. Just clear up the air.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Look at HW's first big DLC:
If Smash gets something like that...
If Smash gets something like that...
JediLink
Member
Don't forget best music too.
Yes, I am starting this again.
If there's one thing I'll concede to Brawl, it's that it has the best soundtrack in the series.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Argh, the wait is unbearable.
Jawmuncher
Member
Waiting for the GIF.
With someone sneaking in.
With someone sneaking in.
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