theprodigy
Member
That's quite the overreaction.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS |OT2| Nintendo All-Stars Battle Quarter Pounder
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
- Start date
- Status
That's quite the overreaction.
That's what everyone said about MvC3 as well.
(I know a lot of people are quick to say that scene is dying right now but point still stands)
SirPainsalot
Banned
So I haven't really been keeping up with smash 4 news. how's the game competitively so far? is it viable?
What is a "ridiculous amount" in your opinion? Like, exactly how much bad design vs good is in Smash 4 for your opinion.
I've already accepted Smash 4 is going to be at EVO next year. The only way it wouldn't is if EVO couldn't get streaming rights for Smash 4/get Smash 4 cleared by Nintendo and thus had to go back to Melee because of that. But that's so unlikely anyway.
The only thing right now that makes Smash 4 appealing at EVO 2015 is the prospect of all these different types of players playing the game (potentially). There's been tons of interest from people like Ricky Ortiz, PerfectLegend, and other common FGC top players (can't remember who else) in starting to play Smash seriously through Smash 4 that I would love to see a match-up like Mew2King vs Justin Wong, for example. Just think about that.
But that's all dependent on if those players stick to the game and whether they actually get good at it to get that far in what would be a really hard set of brackets (most likely).
This is all from a spectator POV, of course. And this is without the thought process that Smash 4 deserves an EVO or whatever (which I'm sort of iffy on right now because the game isn't even out on the hardware EVO would use aka the Wii U version).
If I was only allowed to make one change to the game, it would probably be hitstun increased to Smash 64 levels.
If I was able to make a list of changes?
-Endlag and Landing lag on normals gets halved if an attack hits a player or a shield, stays at full length if the move whiffs
-Increase hitstun to Smash 64 levels
-Only one air dodge per air time, it doesn't put you into special fall
-Add dash dancing back but with a window instead of the ability to do it instantly as well as a quick turn animation for people that think it looks weird and that that's enough to remove a mechanic that adds to the game
-Momentum is conserved when you jump rather than jump distance always being a set distance, the current method just feels shit in a physics based platformer.
-Increase the angle of influence you have over DI, but retool it so that it's as intuitive as KBI (hold the direction you want to go in rather than a direction perpendicular to the one you'll be sent in), none of this 'let me increase my knockback to completely remove x% of combos from the game at high level play'
-Balance character movesets around 1v1 and let the chaos of items, stages and player interaction handle the 'balance' of FFA, or at the very least, give characters custom moves that turn it into a 1v1 oriented move.
That last one is kind of getting into specific characters there, so I don't know too much about that, I could probably make a list of what I'd do to each character as well, but in terms of the base game itself, that's the general kind of stuff I'd want that would make the game perfect for me.
It's almost 1am and I'm watching Utopia at the moment (seriously, people should watch that show), so I wouldn't be able to make an indepth post about how I feel about the design of Smash 4 from a mechanical perspective, I could start writing one tomorrow if it's something people would genuinely be interested in reading.
But a general opinion for me would be a lot of "1 step forward, 2 steps back", I feel like there's quite a few good things that they did but I also feel like that's quite a lot that they did bad or just didn't do that could make the game perfect.
The main things are above, if we got that I'd be content, but there's a lot of other minor things that I feel leave a sour taste in my mouth that people would probably just dismiss as nitpicking or not wanting to give it a fair shot or whatever.
Oh god, Smash War II is really happening.
Having survived the first one, I can tell you... this is going to be really annoying.
The game isn't even out worldwide yet. The game isn't even out ANYWHERE on the real system that people will be playing it on for the next 6 years. People need to chill. Haven't we learned that Melee is unkillable? Give Smash 4 its time to shine instead of disregarding it in less than a month. If it's good, great. We have a new Smash to play. If it sucks, back to Melee we go.
Having survived the first one, I can tell you... this is going to be really annoying.
The game isn't even out worldwide yet. The game isn't even out ANYWHERE on the real system that people will be playing it on for the next 6 years. People need to chill. Haven't we learned that Melee is unkillable? Give Smash 4 its time to shine instead of disregarding it in less than a month. If it's good, great. We have a new Smash to play. If it sucks, back to Melee we go.
I really don't either. But I'm certain that's because NOBODY is good at the game yet. It wasn't until just recently that I found some PM matches interesting.
Was that not obvious before?
Get out while you can maaaan
It's competitive and yes it is viable.
I'll keep it at that, come back in a few days when the game is out o__o
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Overreactions to overreactions.
I still find PM pretty hit-and-miss to watch, too many matches go on for way too long. 3.5 is supposed to fix that though.
On the positive side, it can't be worse than melee vs brawl...tho that's not adding PM into the mix lol.
Aaronrules380
Member
I like how people complain about balance and then act like Melee was super balanced, when it had less than half the cast be viable at all for competitive play. Based on early impressions, it seems quite possible we'll get as high a percent, or perhaps even a higher one that are viable which is impressive when you consider the roster is like twice as large, and larger rosters are far, far harder to balance (And I'm talking on a percentage scale, not just a sheer number balanced)
TheSlySoul
Member
QFT, from what I played of the demo it feels like something I will keep playing compared to Brawl. I am personally excited for Thursday at midnight.
Spinosaurus
Member
Nobody is saying that.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
That and patches are a thing now.
SirPainsalot
Banned
oh yeah it's coming out in a few days, totally forgot lol.
Any news on the wii u version release date?
PadWarrior
Member
I dunno maybe I haven't been here long enough but it seems much worst on other places than gaf. Life is too short to have people freaking out over a game.
MrSaturn99
Member
lmao
Same, though I'm focusing on Villager and Mega Man. Haven't gotten them down at all(I'm terrible at remembering Villager's Pocket), but boy are they fun.
PreyingShark
Member
Thanks a lot. You just jinxed it so it's going to be even worse. :X
Like hell, if people really believed Melee was balanced, there wouldn't be the Fox only, Final Destination jokes
theprodigy
Member
Do you like, not check any threads on GAF that aren't Smash-related?
cause that definitely isn't true lol
TheSlySoul
Member
I am with you. I feel the timing for Pocket and Tree are very strict. Will probably not main as Villager. Excited to try out Sonic and Pac.
SirPainsalot
Banned
It's really sad that fox and co killed off a lot of the mid-tier characters like falcon and ice climbers. you never see those guys win majors anymore
MrSaturn99
Member
I'm generally okay with Tree in FFA, I just keep forgetting Pocket exists lol (I've never been good with reflecting moves and the like, so it's a real challenge).
Personally, I find riding the Lloid Rocket to an extraordinarily fun killing option.
As long as smash 4 is a more enjoyable experience than brawl, I don't care honestly.
Nothing concrete, but there have been rumors of Nov. 21st floating around. I see that being likely so that's what I'm expecting.
I just don't get Villager :/ and Megaman is fun, I'll probably put more time into him when the Wii U version comes out.
Who's complaining about balance? From what I've seen, Smash 4 looks to be the most balanced smash yet.
Aaronrules380
Member
I feel like a lot of people act like that even if they don't say it outright. And honestly, I think (based on impressions since my experience is limited to the demo) this game will be super well balanced when you consider it's size. WIth a roster this huge, there are always going to be characters who aren't viable competitively or who are just outclassed in their niche by another character. And I disagree with the idea that smash should be balanced solely for 1v1 tournament play, because most people will probably play free for all just as much if not more. And saying stage hazards and items adjust free for all balance is dumb, since I've been in groups where we'd turn off items and select safer stages, but still play free for all most of the time because of the number of people. And that's ignoring that items and stage hazards can give certain types of characters even more of an advantage in free for alls than they might already have
PreyingShark
Member
Nah, the thread was tame until I posted an FB post that I thought was hilarious.
Then it exploded.
It's usually tame, though.
The thing that worries me, is that - in a game that favours defense as heavily as Brawl/Smash 4 do - the game doesn't get more exciting as time goes on, it gets less exciting, because people learn to exploit the defensive options better because they're the best options 90% of the time, and people always use the best option in tournaments.
I was saying pretty similar stuff after the SDCC grand finals.
E: Also I say they should balance around 1v1, because when they don't you get useless shit like PK Flash.
Aaronrules380
Member
『Inaba Resident』;132206612 said:
Yep. And Sakurai has stated in interviews that he wants to do balance patches after the game's release
theprodigy
Member
I told you this was a bad idea....
PadWarrior
Member
That's what in saying smash gaf has it moments but for the most part it's tame compared to say smashboards or gamefaqs other parts of the smash fan base.
SirPainsalot
Banned
that seems decent. Also are those figurines things coming out with the 3DS version or wii u version?
Aaronrules380
Member
Those come from a completely different set of people than the ones I'm talking about
I would, but the Wii U version isn't out yet.
Edit: I realized that could be construed as a bit inflammatory. I just don't feel any strong pull to get the 3DS version. I respect those that do want it though. I still wouldn't mind facing you in the Wii U version.
For real? I don't remember that.
PreyingShark
Member
Same.As long as smash 4 is a more enjoyable experience than brawl, I don't care honestly.
Smash 4 won't really be a tourney game for me. I already plan to spend enough on Pokemon the next couple years as it is. I'll still strive to get decent at smash 4 though
SirPainsalot
Banned
Any chance of DLC after the game releases? Would love to see snake in as dlc.
Aaronrules380
Member
I remember him saying it in the same interview where he talked about DLC. I'll see if I can find it quickly
The top 10 characters in the game all are extremely balanced against each other, though. If you ignore the other 16 and just focus on Fox, Falco, Marth, Sheik, Jigglypuff, Peach, Falcon, ICs, Pikachu, Samus, etc. it all works out really well and these characters offer a very entertaining set of matches to spectate at a high level.
That isn't much you could say about Brawl, which is and was way worse than Melee with balance. So the argument about Melee not having good balance and ignoring Brawl's travesty is a bit silly. Brawl doesn't even let you take a character like Ganondorf or Yoshi and use global mechanics to band-aid fix their inherent weaknesses (Ganondorf being slow as shit, Yoshi not having any good defensive options while in his shield). Brawl at most only had like 4 characters you'd ever really see in high level play with maybe the occasional Pikachu or ZSS or Olimar. Top 8s in more recent years had MKs, ICs, and Diddy Kong filling it up which is worse than anything Melee has produced in its Top 8 in the last two years.
The fact that Melee can even have a diverse Top 8 (as in, each player is representing a different character) is pretty amazing all things considered for a game this old.
Also, Brawl's "balance" looked incredibly good at first with a few outliers (DDD, Snake, Falco) around this same time period (Japanese release). You can't say anything about Smash 4's balance because not everyone owns the game yet. When everyone owned Brawl in the states, characters like MK were being figured out and while MK didn't become considered "god-tier" until many months later, there were hints and premonitions about how good he was going to be -- many people called him as going to be the "Marth with wings".
Things don't seem imbalanced yet because more people don't have the game yet. And it takes tons of time to discover everything and unearth what works and what doesn't work with a character. This process took awhile for Brawl as well.
The only thing you can say that's good about Smash 4 is there has been no infinite that works on a majority of the cast found yet (ZSS' Down B infinite on Robin only works on Robin and requires a custom move) which at this point in time for Brawl's Japanese release DDD's and Falco's chaingrabs were already discovered. And an infinite with any character generally can ruin a character or multiple characters in terms of viability depending on how rampant and easy the infinite is to do.
Honestly, the moment DDD could chaingrab 90% of the cast in Brawl really foretold what that game was going to be like going forward. :/
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
If CoD can overtake Halo after years of dominance (Halo CE frikkin created MLG), then Smash 4 can be huge in the tournament scene. The support from the fans has to be there and things will happen. As long as the views and interest is maintained, there will be competitive Smash 4 on a large scale.
Keep watching and supporting Smash 4 streams, Smash 4 events, etc. and it'll be fine.
Keep watching and supporting Smash 4 streams, Smash 4 events, etc. and it'll be fine.
theprodigy
Member
A little OT, but:
I'm about the same in regards to that: I pretty much ignored Bayo 2 until that backlash happened.
Then I was like "okay, clearly I missed something. I should keep an eye on this."
And now I'm glad I did.
I'm about the same in regards to that: I pretty much ignored Bayo 2 until that backlash happened.
Then I was like "okay, clearly I missed something. I should keep an eye on this."
And now I'm glad I did.
- Status