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[emb]

I'm constantly worried Hyrule Warriors is gonna get neglected in favor of Smash lol

I definitely won't play much besides Smash after this weekend, for a couple weeks. Just gotta do what I can in HW until then, haha.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Let me put this on record, I wouldn't mind Paper Mario given that he's unique. My problem is with the representation the Mario franchise already has in the game. Bowser Jr. is already pushing it (granted, he's unique, so I'm not that mad, but still).

I agree with you. I rather have Paper Mario than the Koopa Kids.

On an unrelated note, I read some more of the critical reviews for the game. GamesRadar says the online is a mixed bag, so I hope I am in the good connection part of the bag. The bad cannot be worse than Brawl's worst.

Spoiler

Right?

 

[JazzmanZ]

Going back to the question of who makes sense to cut and rebooting the roster, I think at the lowest level the remaining Melee veterans sans Game & Watch, Young/Toon Link and maybe (big emphasis on maybe) Jigglypuff and Ness are probably all too "important" or ingrained into the Smash series to be cut without significant complaints.

Characters like Falco, Sheik, and Captain Falcon are arguably easy cuts since they are a clonish character from a very minor franchise, appeared in one game, and are from a dead series respectively. But all of them are really, really popular in Smash, and not just at a competitive level. I mean, imagine Smash without Falcon Punch?

Most of the Brawl and Smash 4 additions are largely fluff though. As far as exceptions go, I can't see the Kirby guys getting cut. Charizard is probably the second most popular and recognized Pokemon after Pikachu. Animal Crossing is a pretty major Nintendo franchise so Villager sticking around makes sense. And I guess Olimar since Pikmin is still alive-ish.g.

Characters like Falco, Sheik, and Captain Falcon are arguably easy cuts

Falco, Sheik, and Captain Falcon

Captain Falcon

No way is that ever happening, C.F is basically an icon in Smash.

 

[SuperSah]

Toon Link plays fantastically here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYziyZnDUqY

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I agree with you. I rather have Paper Mario than the Koopa Kids.

On an unrelated note, I read some more of the critical reviews for the game. GamesRadar says the online is a mixed bag, so I hope I am in the good connection part of the bag. The bad cannot be worse than Brawl's worst.

Spoiler

Right?

I mean it couldn't be as simple as they have an import copy and are playing Japan from America... could it?

 

[Crayolan]

Let me put this on record, I wouldn't mind Paper Mario given that he's unique. My problem is with the representation the Mario franchise already has in the game. Bowser Jr. is already pushing it (granted, he's unique, so I'm not that mad, but still).

IMO Rosalina is the one who's "pushing it". Bowser Jr. is a lot more relevant and has a lot more history in the franchise than her, same goes for the Koopalings.

 

[theprodigy]

I'm constantly worried Hyrule Warriors is gonna get neglected in favor of Smash lol

eh whatever I'm sure people will have time to play it on the side

 

[chaosblade]

No way is that ever happening, C.F is basically an icon in Smash.

That's pretty much exactly what I said.

I'd say he's almost the series mascot at this point, despite having never been on the box art.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I mean it couldn't be as simple as they have an import copy and are playing Japan from America... could it?

Yeah, but this is the review copy of the game and not the imported one. Meaning they were playing in the US with other US players. Also, some people who are in the US playing Japanese players had little issue. It seems to be a "you have it or not" kind of problem.

 

[ffdgh]

Toon Link plays fantastically here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYziyZnDUqY

Ha though you were being sarcastic since toon link was getting beaten at first.

 

[Neoxon]

I agree with you. I rather have Paper Mario than the Koopa Kids.

On an unrelated note, I read some more of the critical reviews for the game. GamesRadar says the online is a mixed bag, so I hope I am in the good connection part of the bag. The bad cannot be worse than Brawl's worst.

Spoiler

Right?

The thing is, both are (or could be) unique. But Paper Mario is just another Mario, while Jr. & the Koopalings, even though they're children of Bowser, are their own characters.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I was so ready to trash Junior, thinking he'd be a mini clone of Bowser.

 

[SuperSah]

Ha though you were being sarcastic since toon link was getting beaten at first.

Haha, nope.

Holy fuck at this Cap. Falcon play in the second round, what a beast:

http://youtu.be/y_4xWCwLIkA

 

[Timeaisis]

Toon Link plays fantastically here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYziyZnDUqY

I thought this was sarcasm until I watched the rest of the video.

 

[theprodigy]

IMO Rosalina is the one who's "pushing it". Bowser Jr. is a lot more relevant and has a lot more history in the franchise than her, same goes for the Koopalings.

whoa now

Spoiler

I think we can all agree Doc is the least important member of the group

 

[DaBoss]

Toon Link plays fantastically here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYziyZnDUqY

It's more like the Falco player played poorly there.

 

[PadWarrior]

I hope mega man and greninja are never cut

 

[TheSlySoul]

The thing is, both are (or could be) unique. But Paper Mario is just another Mario, while Jr. & the Koopalings, even though they're children of Bowser, are their own characters.

I will give you that. I really think Dr. Mario should have been an alt and Paper Mario got a character slot because the whole "paper" thing is a unique gimmick. Dr. Mario as we know it is Melee Mario. Really the whole "clone" space on the roster bugs me and it should have been alts like Alph.

Come on. We have Doctor Mario as a clone Mario representative, and you'd rather see the Koopa Kids be replaced by Paper Mario?

Bowser Jr. or Dr. Mario yes. Bowser Jr. is pretty much playing as the Clown Copter and really does not use the Kooplings at all. Paper Mario does not punch. He jumps, uses a hammer, and can use items/partners. Paper Mario would have been a super choice to me. He would play so different than normal Mario since he cannot punch.
Edit: Also using TTYD he could transform into a paper plane for his Up+B, that would rock.

 

[Timeaisis]

It's more like the Falco player played poorly there.

Yeah, it wasn't that impressive of Toon Link. He did have pretty good bomb placement though, and good use of the boomerang.

Didn't make use of his tilts or aerials enough, though. But that could be because TL air game was nerfed? I haven't watched many TL videos.

 

[Molemitts]

I agree with you. I rather have Paper Mario than the Koopa Kids.

On an unrelated note, I read some more of the critical reviews for the game. GamesRadar says the online is a mixed bag, so I hope I am in the good connection part of the bag. The bad cannot be worse than Brawl's worst.

Spoiler

Right?

Come on. We have Doctor Mario as a clone Mario representative, and you'd rather see the Koopa Kids be replaced by Paper Mario?

 

[SuperSah]

Yeah, it wasn't that impressive of Toon Link. He did have pretty good bomb placement though, and good use of the boomerang.

Didn't make use of his tilts or aerials enough, though. But that could be because TL air game was nerfed? I haven't watched many TL videos.

What about the awesome Cap. Falcon gameplay then?
http://youtu.be/y_4xWCwLIkA

 

[Azure J]

IMO Rosalina is the one who's "pushing it". Bowser Jr. is a lot more relevant and has a lot more history in the franchise than her, same goes for the Koopalings.

Her play style alone justifies her existence for as long as this series remains a thing. Coming from the highest point of the Mario series is also quite the credential behind her.

As always Sakurai going to Sakurai, but if there was one Mario character I'd never want to part with, it's her.

I hope mega man and greninja are never cut

Of the Smash 4 newcomers, Greninja, Palutena, Robin, Rosalina, Pac-Man & Megaman should never ever meet the cutting board imo. If I'm to be more objective, I'd also add Villager, Duck Hunt Dog and Wii Fit Trainer to the mix.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Paper Mario could happily exist with Doc, Bowser Jr and Rosalina.

It only seems like Mario got a lot of characters this time around because he lost a character in Brawl (Doc), but gained Doc back this time, plus two new comers. Had Doc not been cut from Brawl, and Bowser Jr been in Brawl, I don't think people would think the game was Mario heavy. It's just that it all hit at once since Brawl was unusually light on Mario content.

 

[DaBoss]

Yeah, it wasn't that impressive of Toon Link. He did have pretty good bomb placement though, and good use of the boomerang.

Didn't make use of his tilts or aerials enough, though. But that could be because TL air game was nerfed? I haven't watched many TL videos.

Toon Link looks to be pretty good from what I saw on Zero's stream. Especially his bombs and boomerang. Though I didn't really see enough of him to say anything else.

I think someone said his b-air is nerfed.

What about the awesome Cap. Falcon gameplay then?
http://youtu.be/y_4xWCwLIkA

No offense to the other players, but they were mostly just walking around and basically letting the Falcon player kill them.

 

[TheSlySoul]

Yeah, I get your point ballad. I think it is unfair to group "Paper Mario" with Mario because he is very different. It reminds me how Yoshi and Wario get grouped despite having franchises of their own. Anyone who played the games would understand why Paper Mario would be awesome in Smash.

 

[theprodigy]

No offense to the other players, but they were mostly just walking around and basically letting the Falcon player kill them.

It's For Fun, what did you expect /s

 

[Molemitts]

IMO Rosalina is the one who's "pushing it". Bowser Jr. is a lot more relevant and has a lot more history in the franchise than her, same goes for the Koopalings.

I believe Rosalina is going to become more and more important to the Mario series as more games come out. She's not just the Super Mario Galaxy character anymore, she was playable in 3D world too.

Bowser Jr. or Dr. Mario yes. Bowser Jr. is pretty much playing as the Clown Copter and really does not use the Kooplings at all. Paper Mario does not punch. He jumps, uses a hammer, and can use items/partners. Paper Mario would have been a super choice to me. He would play so different than normal Mario since he cannot punch.
Edit: Also using TTYD he could transform into a paper plane for his Up+B, that would rock.

I agree Paper Mario would be a great character. I just like Bowser Jr, too.

Paper Mario could happily exist with Doc, Bowser Jr and Rosalina.

It only seems like Mario got a lot of characters this time around because he lost a character in Brawl (Doc), but gained Doc back this time, plus two new comers. Had Doc not been cut from Brawl, and Bowser Jr been in Brawl, I don't think people would think the game was Mario heavy. It's just that it all hit at once since Brawl was unusually light on Mario content.

Mario get's loads of characters because it's Nintendo's mascot series. If any series got a load of characters into Smash it would be Mario.

 

[SuperSah]

It's For Fun, what did you expect /s

10/10

 

[Neoxon]

I will give you that. I really think Dr. Mario should have been an alt and Paper Mario got a character slot because the whole "paper" thing is a unique gimmick. Dr. Mario as we know it is Melee Mario. Really the whole "clone" space on the roster bugs me and it should have been alts like Alph.


Bowser Jr. or Dr. Mario yes. Bowser Jr. is pretty much playing as the Clown Copter and really does not use the Kooplings at all. Paper Mario does not punch. He jumps, uses a hammer, and can use items/partners. Paper Mario would have been a super choice to me. He would play so different than normal Mario since he cannot punch.
Edit: Also using TTYD he could transform into a paper plane for his Up+B, that would rock.

They had extra time, but not enough for a full-on unique newcomer. They had some alts, with Dr. Mario being a cult favorite from Melee, Lucina being a favorite among the FE community, & Dark Pit being ridiculously popular in Japan. Solution, pad out the roster by promoting the 3 into their own characters to make use of the limited time they had left to make the game. It's not like they screwed someone out of the roster.

 

[OricWindstar]

I'm not a Dark Pit hater, but is there a particular reason for his popularity in Japan? Seems kind of random.

 

[Spinluck]

I hope mega man and greninja are never cut

Pokemon characters are tricky. I feel like Pikachu and Jigglypuff (maybe Charizard?) are the only Pokemon locks.

Guest characters are a tricky thing. I think Sonic will be cut based off Sonic Boom alone. Megaman will still be dead, but hopefully he returns.

 

[TheSlySoul]

I agree Paper Mario would be a great character. I just like Bowser Jr, too.

I like the idea of Bowser Jr., but in execution you are pretty much playing the Koopa Copter with a person driving it with the alts just changing the skin. I rather have Bowser's FS be using the Koopa Copter and Bowser Jr. be actual playable. They could have worked around the alt thing by making the moves what any Koopa Kid could do (shell and wand attacks).
I guess what I am saying is I rather play as Fox/Falco instead of them driving the Landmaster for the whole match.

Solution, pad out the roster by promoting the 3 into their own characters to make use of the limited time they had left to make the game. It's not like they screwed someone out of the roster.

I know that of course, but I think they should have just put them with retrospective franchises like in Melee. It feels odd having three in the bottom right corner.

 

[Neoxon]

Pokemon characters are tricky. I feel like Pikachu and Jigglypuff (maybe Charizard?) are the only Pokemon locks.

Guest characters are a tricky thing. I think Sonic will be cut based off Sonic Boom alone. Megaman will still be dead, but hopefully he returns.

You realize that Sonic Boom is only a Western spin-off, with regular Modern Sonic (the one in Smash 4) still existing in Sonic Team-made games, right?

 

[Gonzo The Great]

They had extra time, but not enough for a full-on unique newcomer. They had some alts, with Dr. Mario being a cult favorite from Melee, Lucina being a favorite among the FE community, & Dark Pit being ridiculously popular in Japan. Solution, pad out the roster by promoting the 3 into their own characters to make use of the limited time they had left to make the game. It's not like they screwed someone out of the roster.

Good lord, let's not overdo it. Dark Pit was added because it probably took them a week to add him.

Spoiler

I still hate him.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Pokemon characters are tricky. I feel like Pikachu and Jigglypuff (maybe Charizard?) are the only Pokemon locks.

Guest characters are a tricky thing. I think Sonic will be cut based off Sonic Boom alone. Megaman will still be dead, but hopefully he returns.

I can see Megaman not coming back.
Everyone is saying "Well he isn't doing anything so capcom would let him just stat".
Well snake ain't doing anything either fighting game side and he got cut anyway.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I'm not a Dark Pit hater, but is there a particular reason for his popularity in Japan? Seems kind of random.

I don't think it's just Dark Pit. Majority of Kid Icarus Uprising casts were quite popular along with Japanese audiences. Palutena, Pit, Dark Pit and Viridi were placed in top 15 Nintendo characters if I recalled it right.

 

[Azure J]

I'm not a Dark Pit hater, but is there a particular reason for his popularity in Japan? Seems kind of random.

I'd be curious to hear more about this myself. You'd think Viridi would be more popular if it was just a "Japan" type of thing.

Edit: Beaten lol

Pokemon characters are tricky. I feel like Pikachu and Jigglypuff (maybe Charizard?) are the only Pokemon locks.

Guest characters are a tricky thing. I think Sonic will be cut based off Sonic Boom alone. Megaman will still be dead, but hopefully he returns.

I feel like the "OMG Mario vs. Sonic" aspect is still too strong for Sonic to make any departures unless Sega pulls a vintage Sega move and pulls him.

 

[Neoxon]

Good lord, let's not overdo it. Dark Pit was added because it probably took them a week to add him.

Spoiler

I still hate him.

Another reason for his inclusion. He was easy to add & it made a ton of Japanese fans happy. It was a win-win situation for the developers.

 

[Gonzo The Great]

I don't think it's just Dark Pit. Majority of Kid Icarus Uprising casts were quite popular along with Japanese audiences. Palutena, Pit, Dark Pit and Viridi were placed in top 15 Nintendo characters if I recalled it right.

The poll was conducted right after the game came out. Waluigi also made the list, so 'nuff said.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

Would you be okay with it being Wii Safety Man?

Anything would be better!
Not sure how Zelda fans would feel about it though.

 

[friskykillface]

I can see mega man be cut if Capcom asks for a bigger cut/more money in the next game, its not like he was used in the game for free, or was he? i don't know. $$$$$$$

i feel none of the original 12 will get cut, everyone else could be cut at any time

 

[OricWindstar]

I don't think it's just Dark Pit. Majority of Kid Icarus Uprising casts were quite popular along with Japanese audiences. Palutena, Pit, Dark Pit and Viridi were placed in top 15 Nintendo characters if I recalled it right.

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I could definitely see Viridi or Hades in the next game if the series continues.

 

[Neoxon]

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I could definitely see Viridi or Hades in the next game if the series continues.

Given the Japanese polls, Viridi is probably next in line if they continue to make Kid Icarus games.

 

[KLatin Scelus]

For some reason, I am strangely ok with Dark Pit's inclusion.

It's Dr. Mario that bugs me the most, but his forward-air was my favorite move in Melee, so I at least got something out of it.

 

[OricWindstar]

Given the Japanese polls, Viridi is probably next in line if they continue to make Kid Icarus games.

I'd be fine with either, but man I'd particularly love Hades to make the cut.

 

[IntelliHeath]

Given the Japanese polls, Viridi is probably next in line if they continue to make Kid Icarus games.

Unless they give Medusa more spot light in new game then I could see her replacing Dark Pit's spot for next gen Smash but who know.

 

[Azure J]

Medusa or Viridi as a clone of Palutena would probably have been far more well received than Dark Pit though.

I can see mega man be cut if Capcom asks for a bigger cut/more money in the next game, its not like he was used in the game for free, or was he? i don't know. $$$$$$$

i feel none of the original 12 will get cut, everyone else could be cut at any time

I feel like certain franchise leads are safe though. Marth, Pit, Olimar, Villager and Wii Fit Trainer are pretty safe.

 

[Neoxon]

Unless they give Medusa more spot light in new game then I could see her replacing Dark Pit's spot for next gen Smash but who know.

Pitoo is still popular among the Japanese, so I can see the developers keeping him around while giving him the Luigi treatment.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

I'd be fine with either, but man I'd particularly love Hades to make the cut.

Still gutted Hades didn't for this one honestly. Would have been a new addition that I REALLY loved, apart from Villager all the additions are sorta... "eh".

 

[Molemitts]

They had extra time, but not enough for a full-on unique newcomer. They had some alts, with Dr. Mario being a cult favorite from Melee, Lucina being a favorite among the FE community, & Dark Pit being ridiculously popular in Japan. Solution, pad out the roster by promoting the 3 into their own characters to make use of the limited time they had left to make the game. It's not like they screwed someone out of the roster.

I don't think Japan actually wanted Dark Pit as a Smash character, they just thought he was a good Nintendo character. I think that idea came from a survey in a magazine, or something like that. It was posted in one of the old threads, I think.

I like the idea of Bowser Jr., but in execution you are pretty much playing the Koopa Copter with a person driving it with the alts just changing the skin. I rather have Bowser's FS be using the Koopa Copter and Bowser Jr. be actual playable. They could have worked around the alt thing by making the moves what any Koopa Kid could do (shell and wand attacks).
I guess what I am saying is I rather play as Fox/Falco instead of them driving the Landmaster for the whole match.

Bowser Jr would probably just be a light weight Boswer clone, if not for the Kooopa Copter. If they could have done something else more intereting with him, then oh well. But I really like how the koopa Copter works, to be honest.