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Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait

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PhoncipleBone said:
You could say the same for many movies, sadly.
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Well, actually watching what's happening gets in the way of coming up with really smartass jokes to throw at the gaping void of the internet once you leave the theater.

...which would be a good excuse if people weren't just regurgitating something semi-clever they read on twitter 2 days after it came out.
 
BobbyRoberts said:
Well, actually watching what's happening gets in the way of coming up with really smartass jokes to throw at the gaping void of the internet once you leave the theater.

...which would be a good excuse if people weren't just regurgitating something semi-clever they read on twitter 2 days after it came out.
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Clever is not the word I would use.
 
Divius said:
Let me just point out that this movie will be directed by Zack Snyder. Keep your hype in check, guys.
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I don;t think anyone can make superheroe movie look as good as Snyder though, aside from maybe Del Toro. So it mostly depends on how good the script will be.
 
m_shortpants said:
Snyder is not the issue. Goyer was the issue. Thankfully he's out thanks to Batfleck.
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A good director should be able to elevate a film beyond it's awful script. Snyder failed to do that. Though in his defense I'm sure he was creatively hampered by WB forcing him to make the second coming of The Dark Knight.
 
FusionCode said:
A good director should be able to elevate a film beyond it's awful script. Snyder failed to do that. Though in his defense I'm sure he was creatively hampered by WB forcing him to make the second coming of The Dark Knight.
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Going by Man of Steel, Snyder did elevate it past it's awful script. Just wasn't enough for some people.
 
FusionCode said:
A good director should be able to elevate a film beyond it's awful script. Snyder failed to do that. Though in his defense I'm sure he was creatively hampered by WB forcing him to make the second coming of The Dark Knight.
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That isn't the same as pulling a good film from a bad script. Snyder made a terrible script into merely a mediocre film. So he did elevate it.
 
I don't think the script was that ba.

Just change a few concepts around, trim some fat, cut some scenes, add some more characte development and it's perfectly fine.
 
Synder's biggest mistake, though it was likely written this way in the script, was going with the non-linear "Batman Begins" style origin. He didn't appear to be comfortable with that structure, and placing those flashbacks in chronological order (while also fleshing a few out and cutting others) would have done a lot for the pacing and developing Clark's character, I think.

I know people also take issue with the serious, "dark" tone, but I think even that would have worked better with a more linear structure.
 
Goyer loves his cliches and one liners. That's his problem
aside from not respecting subject matter
. Here's hoping that rewrite did the trick.
 
ReiGun said:
Synder's biggest mistake, though it was likely written this way in the script, was going with the non-linear "Batman Begins" style origin. He didn't appear to be comfortable with that structure, and placing those flashbacks in chronological order (while also fleshing a few out and cutting others) would have done a lot for the pacing and developing Clark's character, I think.

I know people also take issue with the serious, "dark" tone, but I think even that would have worked better with a more linear structure.
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I guess Warner didn't want a repeat of Clark/Superman not showing up for an hour like in the original Superman or lack of action complaints like Superman Returns
 
Penguin said:
I guess Warner didn't want a repeat of Clark/Superman not showing up for an hour like in the original Superman or lack of action complaints like Superman Returns
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Hell, they could have had the movie start exactly the way it started up until bear Clark saves the oil riggers, and then after that first flashback - just continue with the flashbacks (but cut the one where the kids bully him in front of the repair shop, because that's dumb) all the way to pa kent getting sucked up into the tornado, and then smash-cut from Clark screaming his lungs out to Clark opening his eyes underwater.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fan-edit out there that's done just that.

Clark falls in the water
Young clark freaks out, hides in a closet.
Young Clark saves the bus
Teen Clark gets in argument with his dad
Clark wakes up underwater

Another positive: Now that you don't need to set-up the bus flashback, you can basically cut out his stealing the clothes segment, too.
 
Just cause.

Gbj6CRx.jpg


gwrxvUv.jpg
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GringoSuave89 said:
Goyer loves his cliches and one liners. That's his problem
aside from not respecting subject matter
. Here's hoping that rewrite did the trick.
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Goyer wrote a Superman movie that's quite literally ashamed to call its protagonist Superman, which is his approach to the material in a nutshell. Terrio save us.
 
and even then, they do call him superman

Northcom Threat Analyst #2: General Swanwick, sir. I'm on with the control tower, Colonel Hardy's on his way in and he's got Superman in tow.
General Swanwick: Superman?
Northcom Threat Analyst #2: The alien, sir. That...that's what they're calling him, Superman.
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You know what I've always wondered?

What kind of comics exist in the MoS verse?

Seeing as how all the DC characters are "real", what kind of comics would they read? What "fictional" superheroes would they have? Would superheroes even be a genre as they have the real thing?
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You know what I've always wondered?

What kind of comics exist in the MoS verse?

Seeing as how all the DC characters are "real", what kind of comics would they read? What "fictional" superheroes would they have? Would superheroes even be a genre as they have the real thing?
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I'm just going to assume Zorro, since Batman is linked to him and Clarks pose as a kid reminds me of Zorro.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You know what I've always wondered?

What kind of comics exist in the MoS verse?

Seeing as how all the DC characters are "real", what kind of comics would they read? What "fictional" superheroes would they have? Would superheroes even be a genre as they have the real thing?
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Well, there was that Blaze Comics shot.
 
Father_Brain said:
Goyer wrote a Superman movie that's quite literally ashamed to call its protagonist Superman, which is his approach to the material in a nutshell. Terrio save us.
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? He's named Superman with the same context as the '78 film; or to use a recent example, Iron Man. Granted, Superman doesn't know he's Superman in Man of Steel. That final scene at the Daily Planet was ripe for a gag where Superman is mentioned and Clark asks "Who is Superman?"
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You know what I've always wondered?

What kind of comics exist in the MoS verse?

Seeing as how all the DC characters are "real", what kind of comics would they read? What "fictional" superheroes would they have? Would superheroes even be a genre as they have the real thing?
Click to expand...

Alan Moore has thought of this.
kaKooN2.jpg
 
TacticalFox88 said:
You know what I've always wondered?

What kind of comics exist in the MoS verse?

Seeing as how all the DC characters are "real", what kind of comics would they read? What "fictional" superheroes would they have? Would superheroes even be a genre as they have the real thing?
Click to expand...

Probably the same ones that exist in ours, just minus superheroes (unless Marvel exists in the MoS-verse).
 
broncobuster said:
That's what I believed as a kid. DC in Marvel, Marvel in DC. The Superman line in Raimi's Spider-Man sold it.
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The two occasionally make references to each other in the comics. Peter Parker is a fan of the Nolan movies, and Supergirl read a Spider-Man comic once and said she thought his powers were disgusting.

Sibersk Esto said:
Didn't have to be so smug about it with Lois tho
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To be fair, she didn't have to go all "you live here, you learn our language damn it!" on him either.

"Well here...it's an 'S.'" Racist much, Lois?
 
Loxley said:
I'm curious as to whether or not they're going to introduce kryptonite in DOJ.
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Batman, my favorite character of all time, and Lex Luthor, have a snowball´s chance in hell, absolute zero hope against Superman without a Kryptonite rock of some kind, I would think.

But based by the alien spacesuits of MOS, which look the same as Lex´s iconic suit, maybe Luthor gets his hands on a lot of Kryptonian technology, and of course, some kind of kryptonite.
 
BadAss2961 said:
Wut?

It's an origin movie where he was only Superman for like a few hours.
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Which would be a perfectly adequate explanation if he adopted the Superman name at the end, or perhaps even if the name wasn't used at all. But IIRC, the only times it's used in MoS are when it's interrupted for a trailer-friendly gag (the "the S stands for hope" scene with Lois), or when it's immediately mocked by Swanwick or one of the other military characters (in the scene Messypandas quoted).
 
strafer said:
I have question for your comic book geeks. :)

Is there a comic were Superman goes nuts and kills people?
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More than a few. Honestly it's really played out.
Crimson-Death said:
Batman, my favorite character of all time, and Lex Luthor, have a snowball´s chance in hell, absolute zero hope against Superman without a Kryptonite rock of some kind, I would think.

But based by the alien spacesuits of MOS, which look the same as Lex´s iconic suit, maybe Luthor gets his hands on a lot of Kryptonian technology, and of course, some kind of kryptonite.
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If there's one thing this movie should avoid, it's trying making Jesse Eisenberg look like a credible physical threat, power suit or no.
 
m_shortpants said:
Snyder is not the issue. Goyer was the issue. Thankfully he's out thanks to Batfleck.
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This is how I'd like to think it went down:
broncobuster said:
Goyer came in one day and found a post-it note with "You're a monster, Goyer, and I'm going to stop you. --From Batman" on it.
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But as much as we all like to joke about Goyer, I do tend to think he is good at writing "big ideas". I just believe he sucks at executing them. Also, writing dialogue is definitely not one of his strong points.
 
Eh, whether or not dialogue is good is mainly dependent on the delivery of the actors.

You can have a script as tight as Breaking Bad, but if the actors fail to deliver (literally), then it falls flat on its face.
 
Goyer works best on a team that can cover his weaker areas while helping his strengths. Which is totally fine; not everyone can ride solo. I think here the problems were not only his personal ability, but also his style of writing was a mismatch for Superman. The scene where Superman destroys the truck, for example. That was Goyer being funny, and for a character like Hulk or Namor, it would have landed. However, because it's Superman who we as an audience have certain expectations for, it came across as dickish and cruel to a lot of people.

Mind you, I don't think everything he wrote was awful. Like others have said, the movie had a lot of really good ideas. The scene where Clark's powers start activating in the class was legitimately good, and I like the scene in the pictures up thread.

Switching gears, on the inclusion of kryptonite, I could take or leave it. K has always been a dumb plot device (avoidable given the real world circumstances of its creation), and not having it would force writers to come up with other threats for Superman. I've been rewatcting TAS, and I love how many legitimate threats and creative situations the writers created rather than relying on K every week. Would like to see that transplanted in movies and games with Supes.

strafer said:
I have question for your comic book geeks. :)

Is there a comic were Superman goes nuts and kills people?
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Quite a few. Most are pretty bad, though some manage to work it. Earth 2 is doing some nice things with it, right now.
 
Goyer borrowed a bit too heavily from Batman Begins for Man of Steel. The film ultimately wasn't as fun as it could have been.

If the script for BvS is right I really believe Snyder can create an amazing film. Just bring in a bit more humor and tighten the narrative structure.
 
Father_Brain said:
Which would be a perfectly adequate explanation if he adopted the Superman name at the end, or perhaps even if the name wasn't used at all. But IIRC, the only times it's used in MoS are when it's interrupted for a trailer-friendly gag (the "the S stands for hope" scene with Lois), or when it's immediately mocked by Swanwick or one of the other military characters (in the scene Messypandas quoted).
Click to expand...
It wasn't mocked by Swanwick though. His "Superman?" line was delivered that way because it was the first time he'd heard it.

Goyer can be roasted for some things, but this one is a reach.
 
TacticalFox88 said:
Eh, whether or not dialogue is good is mainly dependent on the delivery of the actors.

You can have a script as tight as Breaking Bad, but if the actors fail to deliver (literally), then it falls flat on its face.
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Good point. I remember there was a scene in Transformers 1 where Shia had to explain who Megatron was. It was so dumb but he delivered it like a champ. He was really underrated in those movies.
 
I do wish in MoS they had a scene where the Kryptonians discover their powers and experiment.

Here they just...expected them, if you know what I mean?

There's no scene of "HOLY SHIT, we have super strength!"
 
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