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The Order:1886 "won't have QTE's every 3-4 minutes, will make them compelling"
- Thread starter sjay1994
- Start date
SniperHunter
Banned
Hmm yea the e3 demo was very poor
I really liked how DMC4 did them. No button ques and fully integrated into the gameplay.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
They better be visceral too.
quickwhips
Member
Even resident evil 5 had coop qte...just saying.
QTEs are some of the best mechanics in gaming. Is there no appreciation for something that requires good hand-eye coordination? Maybe because I spent thousands of hours on Rock Band, but it feels incredible to see a string of buttons come by and hitting every single one perfectly. And unlike in Rock Band, the reward in games like God Of War, Lollipop Chainsaw, Ryse, or THE ORDER, is that your character does some super wicked awesome move.
The 'filmic' thing is strange though, when they've talked about the game, they've cited ND, and TLoU specifically as the kind of cinematic action adventure they were making. TLoU is an excellent game, it's not some string of QTEs and cutscenes with shooting. The Order might very well also not just be that, it could be bigger in scope too, open areas to investigate, crowds, etc, but all they've shown is all we can really go on, and the showings have been exceptionally poor I think.
I was very excited initially because it looks so beautiful, and RaD have made really excellent games, I had no reason to doubt this would be great, but there's a point where it's hard to keep writing off poor showings as just bad choices of sections to show, and start being concerned about the quality of the game itself.
I'm not writing it off or anything, but it went from being one of the games I cared most about to really feeling like they need to show something great before I'd consider buying it, and I know a few people who felt very much the same after E3. I still have hope though.
Garrett Hawke
Member
It's not that that has them sticking around - it's the fact that the devs can make whatever they want - including things that wouldn't work through actual player control - and make it look really cool while justifying that through the player input of pressing a button.
Trickster
Member
Not like we've seen much footage though. And we've also seen QTE's during combat.
loaf of bread
Member
I never understand why people seem to hate any form of QTEs but will also bend over backwards for Shenmue 3, which would probably have twice as many QTEs than a game like this.
BrainZEROX
Member
Any hype I could have about the game is slowly fading away with each presentation... I'm affraid this will be a steam punk Heavy rain with gunz. I'm not confident at all :-/
kunonabi
Gold Member
the difference is implementation.
GameAddict411
Member
I agree, the E3 demo was beyond crap, totally killed my hype for it.
we.are.the.armada
Member
Yo Dev, QTE concerns aren't your problem. RE4, one of the most QTE heavy games ever, did just fine.
Um... hey actually, 1886 should just copy the RE4 format
Um... hey actually, 1886 should just copy the RE4 format
They really did. I just don't care about this game anymore.
Werewolf Jones
Member
QTEs were pretty cool back in the early 2000s but it's 2014. But if the devs really do need them for tension then whatever.
I still think that quote was taken way out of context, to be honest. Seemed like a joke to me.
Ryse is actually a good game though, so that might not necessarily be a bad thing. However, this game seems to lack the action, vibrant graphics, and ideal setting for an interesting game. Those things made the clunky controls of Ryse manageable. All I see in The Order is bumbling, stumbling, and a ton of smog. It'll be a good watch on YouTube with all the gameplay removed and all the cut scenes played in sequence.
Dramatic QTEs (like ending a scene by choosing to take an action or not) have been done well lately.
Strategic QTEs where you're executing a finisher among a group of enemies (and trying to pair down a group threat) tends to contribute to gameplay.
Single-time QTEs as a sort of tutorial for ongoing play mechanics (like we saw in the E3 footage) also contributes to gameplay.
I really, really don't want the "press this button to continue playing this story scene that can only play out one way, anyway" style of implementation, at any point. I'm pretty confident the way they'll use them will make sense, and contribute to the sense of player contribution to especially important/frenetic moments. I'll happily cringe alongside everyone else if they don't handle it well, but I fear this game is getting the same sort of unfair rap that Ryse did, simply for including QTEs, but without consideration for how the game uses them.
Strategic QTEs where you're executing a finisher among a group of enemies (and trying to pair down a group threat) tends to contribute to gameplay.
Single-time QTEs as a sort of tutorial for ongoing play mechanics (like we saw in the E3 footage) also contributes to gameplay.
I really, really don't want the "press this button to continue playing this story scene that can only play out one way, anyway" style of implementation, at any point. I'm pretty confident the way they'll use them will make sense, and contribute to the sense of player contribution to especially important/frenetic moments. I'll happily cringe alongside everyone else if they don't handle it well, but I fear this game is getting the same sort of unfair rap that Ryse did, simply for including QTEs, but without consideration for how the game uses them.
"Compelling QTE's"
This game gets worse every time someone talks about it. QTEs are pointless. We all know this. They are speedbumps in cutscenes. People are fine with them being in games as long as they are spaced out and they don't try to pretend like they're more than they are. Calling them compelling is practically insulting. No one that presses 'E' to keep someone from stabbing you is going to think "wow, that QTE really drew me into the narrative of the game"
This game gets worse every time someone talks about it. QTEs are pointless. We all know this. They are speedbumps in cutscenes. People are fine with them being in games as long as they are spaced out and they don't try to pretend like they're more than they are. Calling them compelling is practically insulting. No one that presses 'E' to keep someone from stabbing you is going to think "wow, that QTE really drew me into the narrative of the game"
I think you're projecting beyond GAF. I have some anecdotal evidence behind that claim buy I'm willing to wager there's a massive difference in opinion between GAF and more casual gamers.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
You do realize shenmue was the first game to put you in a virtual world with all kinds of interactivity (for the time) and the first game to use qtes among many other GAME play styles.
The game wasn't trying to give you a film like experience.
The game WAS the experience
And the shenmue do evelopers didn't say "we had to throw in game elements into our cinematic experience" like it was a bad thing like the order guys did.
Certainly could be the case, and of course 'no one' wasn't literal, obviously there are some people who care. Although I don't know how well known the game is outside of the core audience. I'm not saying it won't sell or anything.
loaf of bread
Member
Do we really know enough about the implementation of these ones to say that they're bad then? The only one we've really seen is when he fights and stabs that guy which didn't seem too bad being the start to a cutscene. The instances of "Press square to use blackwater" might be a dumb design choice but honestly its hardly something thats going to really affect my enjoyment of the game.
The latter.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
The impression I get from this is that there isn't really much game to speak of, and so they have had to pad it out with QTE's in order to make it somewhat interactive lol.
They keep talking about compelling gameplay and so far have failed to show it on what's now several attempts.
They keep talking about compelling gameplay and so far have failed to show it on what's now several attempts.
Glass Rebel
Member
I've never played a game that was good because of its QTEs, only in spite of them. In pretty much every single case, the game was dragged down in one way or another and would have been better off without them. I'm sure it'll be the same for The Order: 1886. The question is, how good is the rest of the game.
biglittleps
Member
They have not even revealed full gameplay and they teased only some sections which is meant like introduction but you've already decided that this is PS4 Ryse. Ready at dawn and Santa monica who are developing are very good developers with gameplay in God of war titles, unlike Crytek who is known for graphics but not gameplay.
Was there every this much hate for QTEs in the God of War games?
I think when done sparingly it's fine. I honestly don't have a problem with it. If they're going for a cinematic experience, then I find it hard to imagine another way of getting the player involved during a cutscene or whatever.
I think when done sparingly it's fine. I honestly don't have a problem with it. If they're going for a cinematic experience, then I find it hard to imagine another way of getting the player involved during a cutscene or whatever.
Crysis is one of the best shooters ever made.
I'm under the impression that was a sort of tutorial moment toward the beginning of the game to introduce the idea that you can use the vial as a health replenishment item with that button during normal gameplay. Well, I hope so, anyway.
Otherwise, I'd completely agree.
hey_it's_that_dog
benevolent sexism
When you say "people" do you mean "gamers" as some kind of uniform entity?
You don't have a shred of evidence that it's the same people complaining about one and clamoring for the other.
AusRoachman
Member
I hope they can make them 60 fps QTE, 30 fps is just not nextgen.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Yep. If it's not a Cyberconnect2 game it shouldn't have QTEs.
biglittleps
Member
May be Crysis 1 but not the rest of the titles.
I think the problem is that you are not actually doing anything. It looks cool but for a lot of people it feels rather hollow when you think about it later.
The only game i can think of that integrates QTEs well in its gameplay is DMC4.
I have not seen any game do it quite like this afterwards.
BadAss2961
Member
GAF will be right back on board around release.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
We've had QTEs since the SNES era and suddenly now it's really cool to hate on them even existing in any form? Don't all jump the bandwagon at once, guys.
jacksepticeye
Member
This game doesn't sound good at all anymore.
Other game's don't really get away with it. Tomb Raider 2013 got a lot of hate for the amount of QTEs at the start of the game.
Other game's don't really get away with it. Tomb Raider 2013 got a lot of hate for the amount of QTEs at the start of the game.
It won't have QTE's every 3-4 minutes, don't be silly! It'll be at least 9-10 minutes before each one!
They have a lot of reassuring to do, that's for sure. Ready at Dawn has made quality games and that's the only reason why I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt.
All the clips show that the game is beautiful -- one of the truly best looking out there, but they've failed to show the hardcore that this is a game they should pick up on day one.
That "press triangle to drink life water" QTE... was it ever clarified if that QTE was an actual choice (because the black water seems to be a risk/reward type thing)? If not, that is laughably embarrassing.
They have a lot of reassuring to do, that's for sure. Ready at Dawn has made quality games and that's the only reason why I'm still giving them the benefit of the doubt.
All the clips show that the game is beautiful -- one of the truly best looking out there, but they've failed to show the hardcore that this is a game they should pick up on day one.
That "press triangle to drink life water" QTE... was it ever clarified if that QTE was an actual choice (because the black water seems to be a risk/reward type thing)? If not, that is laughably embarrassing.
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