-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Yoshida says "open world FFXVI would have taken 15 years to make", ditched its traditional turn-based battle system in order to appeal to younglings
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Which core fanbase are you talking about? The vocal minority of boomers who have whined about turn based combat for the last 20 years?Yoshida POV in regard to the core fanbase
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Final fantasy games fall short on combat I know that. Every game is linear, they’re behind the times.
CrimsonSquall
Member
Fbh
Member
Jeez I don't know why you get so aggressive over this.
Anyway, no one is talking about 1:1 so I don't know where you get this idea. It's almost like there's a massive fucking middle point between the size of the average gaming open world and a 1:1 representation of a planet.
Yeah I know they could just make an average Ubisoft sized open world, put a couple of cities in there and pretend that's the entire world and they are all countries. That's not what he is talking about and that's not what he is saying would take 15 years. But nah I'm sure Yoshida is just dumb and doesn't know what he is talking about, after all he only has like 25 years of experience making big games, can't expect him to be as smart as you.
All that talk and you still can't present a single open world RPG that actually feels like an entire world and not just a region. The way games, including JRPG's, have historically tackled having cities all around the world is having some form of overworld to travel in between major locations, like DQ11 or most oldschool JRPG's. This game will probably be taking a similar approach (though the overworld might just be menu based)
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
Last edited:
cireza
Banned
FF XV wasn't. FF XIII-2 wasn't. Lightning Returns wasn't.
Last edited:
Rhazer Fusion
Member
I actually believe the 15 years considering how long it takes for numbered Final Fantasy sequels to come out.
It’s fine that kids or whoever don’t like turned based RPG’s, but to me most modern RPG’s feel like glorified action games with numbers popping out of the characters and the ability to gain levels.
It’s fine that kids or whoever don’t like turned based RPG’s, but to me most modern RPG’s feel like glorified action games with numbers popping out of the characters and the ability to gain levels.
Last edited:
EDMIX
Member
Yea, then most won't know what the fuck he'd be talking about if its not 1.1 or some shit as it sounds like he is exaggerating some shit that isn't normal.
So if he doesn't mean 1.1 but shit he also doesn't mean to pretend many cities are the entire world and they are all countries, I'd argue you made this man's point sound even more stupid then it sounds.... You can't even quantify what hte fuck this man is talking about lol
You sound triggered as fuck, no one said anything about me being smarter then this man, but the point being made sounds fucking stupid as even his statements have zero example of any game doing what he is suggesting as if someone asked for such a thing or as if open world was always defined by what he was saying. So either its translated wrong, or he is making some really exaggerated statements.
feels like is subjective. The Crew exist where you are driving across the entire USA and you could argue that doesn't feel like this or that. Also many of the older FF titles have the airship wrap around some globe, you are not talking about some brand new thing sir...
All you are fucking saying is a open world with a air ship and you go across water to a different area lol Thats all you are fucking saying and I don't think you fully understand that. Would be like saying GTA SA had 3 cites and instead of a mountain, desert etc that separated them, it was a body of water and instead of all being the the USA, it was 3 different countries.
What you are talking about is semantics.
but for all we know, the more fucking examples given to you, the more you'll cop out to "feeeeels like" lol
So in 3D you very much could have a globe, can have many umm "regions" and simply have different cities, towns that are separated by bodies of water. To ask for it to feel like the "entire world" is literally to ask for some 1.1 type deal, to say you don't mean that, is to fucking say clearly it can be expressed lessor, as in smaller then that....as in how open world games already exist. Starfield isn't out here taking fucking 15 years to be made sir. The thing being asked starts to sound evem more dumb when you factor 1.1 isn't being asked...how are we getting to this 15 years to make such a thing? I'd believe those statements more if the did say they wanted some 1.1 thing lol It would at least make sense.
If you want something that "feelz likez" da entire worldz, you might as well just argue more wasted space between those areas. None of that sounds interesting or new or some revolutionary idea.
My god, we joked about that with Starfield and we are talking about a game with 1000 of those worlds, not fucking 1. If that game isn't taking 15 years to make, it further questions what the fuck this man is talking about lol
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
FF10 and 12 felt like games where you journey across a decent chunk of the world. Despite FF10 being so linear, the way the journey was broken up allowed the imagination to fill in the blanks.
From the initial island hopping at the beginning, then the Piligramage on foot and then then the airship.
15 on the other hand, if they'd had more time to flesh out the proposed second open world area that was half finished, along with Tenebrae and made Gralea and Insomnia have a certain level of exploration, they'd have succeeded. But would have needed all they resources they wasted on the CGI movie, Anime and mobiles games consolidated to the main project and some more dev time. They could have achieved it but Tabata and the higher ups seemingly fucked the ambition of the project with the extra media tie ins.
From the initial island hopping at the beginning, then the Piligramage on foot and then then the airship.
15 on the other hand, if they'd had more time to flesh out the proposed second open world area that was half finished, along with Tenebrae and made Gralea and Insomnia have a certain level of exploration, they'd have succeeded. But would have needed all they resources they wasted on the CGI movie, Anime and mobiles games consolidated to the main project and some more dev time. They could have achieved it but Tabata and the higher ups seemingly fucked the ambition of the project with the extra media tie ins.
Let's be clear - Gen X.
Boomers wouldn't know Final Fantasy from Assassin's Creed or Halo.
Also - again - Square Enix DOES still make turn based Final Fantasy games. They just carry the name "Bravely Default". (Or Octopath Traveler).
Last edited:
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
I know I know it’s just a saying. I’m a Gen X gamer myself and I grew up playing turn based JRPGs
And yes you’re right. S-E still makes turn based FF spin-offs and there are plenty of other turn based JRPGs as well. That’s why the turn-based purists need to get off their cross and stop acting like this genre is under assault.
It’s a niche that has its fans, and the proportion of JRPGs that are turn-based vs real-time/action has remained pretty stable over the last couple decades in my estimation. We got a whopping 3 (soon to be 4) mainline single player FF games in a 22 year period and they’re not turn-based. Wowee.
Kev Kev
Member
i dont need FF to be turn based, i need it to be adventurous again.
i dont get that sense that im going on a journey and like each new area is an adventure waiting to be explored. theyve lost that magic. im really hoping Rebirth gives me that, but i dont have much hope, and i have zero hope for 16 giving me that since it looks like a linear third person action game, at the moment at least.
and yes i know theyve been quoted saying otherwise but i need to see it with my own eyes. the last two trailers didnt show anything like that. even max dood admitted those trailers felt meandering and didnt have enough focus. its hard to tell exactly what kind of game 16 is going to be.
i dont get that sense that im going on a journey and like each new area is an adventure waiting to be explored. theyve lost that magic. im really hoping Rebirth gives me that, but i dont have much hope, and i have zero hope for 16 giving me that since it looks like a linear third person action game, at the moment at least.
and yes i know theyve been quoted saying otherwise but i need to see it with my own eyes. the last two trailers didnt show anything like that. even max dood admitted those trailers felt meandering and didnt have enough focus. its hard to tell exactly what kind of game 16 is going to be.
Last edited:
Fuz
Banned
That's the point. They're not RPG anymore.
Fbh
Member
Every one of your replies to me is like half a novel worth of text and you still can't provide a single good example lol.
Yes we know you can make a billion planets with procedural generation. And once again, it's not what Yoshida is talking about.
At this point I don't even know what you want. But if the world of this game being structured pretty much the same as almost every other JRPG is such a big dealbreaker to you just skip it and go enjoy the 1000 empty planets of Statfield.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
If it's gonna be anything like FFVIIR I'm so out. I have a massive hate boner for that game, so much about it is so bad.
SlimeGooGoo
Party Gooper
.
Last edited:
Mister Wolf
Member
Damn shame about Dragon Quest. Hopefully it has an optional pure turn based mode.
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Hopefully it’ll be nothing like it.
Best thing about FF7R is it’s keeping Tetsuya Nomura busy so he can’t take a dump on the next mainline FF.
XVI has Yoshi-P in charge. If anybody can make a truly great FF game it’s him.
Last edited:
Fuz
Banned
Of all the games, he had to take a crap in FFVII...
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
Oh god here we go with the airing of grievances. Nomura wasn’t even the one responsible for the changes; he wanted to keep it completely faithful.
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
FF7:R reignited my hope for Square, as far as I'm concern Nomura is the one leading them to greatness, perhaps he always was.
Cyberpunkd
Gold Member
This guy is like a project manager’s dream come true - delivers on time with specific milestones.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
People sure do have different taste. I played it for 2-3 hours, and in that time I didn't find a single thing I liked. The visuals are pretty good I guess, but nothing mind-blowing. Everything else I found terrible. Worst game I've played in many years.
YeulEmeralda
Member
I think there's nothing wrong for a game that's trying to tell a story. Especially a JRPG.
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
FFXIII is still one of the prettiest games ever in my eyes. The game is super colorful, environments are imaginative, character models are great, the Status Menu is still the prettiest in gaming, the in-engine cutscenes still look great, and it still has some of the most gorgeous CG cutscenes in a video game (IMO they’re better than XV’s and VIIR’s).
I’m a little disappointed in XVI’s less imaginative and less colorful art direction, but everything else about it, presentation-wise, seems to be a return to form for a mainline FF.
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
You’re entitled to your opinion, and you don’t need to spend any more time with the game, but personally, I was very iffy on the game until Chapter 8.
First of all, though there’s cheesy (intentionally and unintentionally) lines throughout, the first 2 chapters are especially egregious in this regard. As time went on the banter between characters became some of the best I’ve experienced in a game.
As for the battle system, I wasn’t enjoying it because I had no clue what I was doing. IMO though it’s kind of the game’s fault: there’s almost no opportunities to just grind for a bit. Even XIII ALWAYS provided the player with the opportunity to grind (and thus, an opportunity to experiment with the battle system and figure it out).
I’m not sure why you hated it, but if it’s because the battles were frustrating and unsatisfying, and the dialogue bugged you, I think there’s a chance you could end up liking it if you gave it another shot.
Otherwise, I can totally understand someone not liking it, even tho I love it.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Dialogue, battles, level design, forced walking sections, etc. Pretty much everything either infuriated me or bored me to death. Maybe it does get better as you say, but I'm not wasting another second on that game. Too many better games in my backlog. Right now I'm playing Gravity Rush 2 and Doom 2016, having a ton of fun with both.
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
I get you!
But regarding your initial post in this thread: I think the only thing you have to worry about for this game is some forced walking sections (idk how devs don’t get that everyone hates these). Totally different development team.
Lethal01
Member
For me it's a combat system I've wanted to see JRPG's do for almost 2 decades combined with the most enjoyable characters I've ever gotten from Square.
Then throw on fantastic music and pretty graphics as a bonus. and you get what is to me easily the best thing I've ever gotten from Square.
I'm praying Rebirth outshines FFXVI since I hope that Remakes battle system becomes the go to for the series and even spreads to other major RPGs.
Also not a fan of XVI's setting at all. Give me my Scifantasy.
Last edited:
I don't know if anyone's confirmed that or not. I remember when DQ9 was not going to be turn based.
All we know is that Dragon Quest 12 is going to be "darker".
Last I heard on the subject Horii said that Dragon Quest Warriors was the "action" niche for the series.
We'll just have to see.
Last edited:
RoadHazard
Gold Member
I found the combat really unengaging. I enjoy a good turn-based combat system, or a good real-time one, but this mix they were trying to do just didn't work for me. It's not real-time enough to feel like you're really the one performing the actions (pressing X to auto-attack is boring), and it's not turn-based enough to feel very tactical (you don't really have time to consider your next move like in an actual turn-based RPG). For me it's like they combined the worst parts of both types of combat, and what came out the other side was something really boring.
So yeah, not for me.
Oh, and I also hated the characters and the way they acted. Every single one of them. I found it truly unbearable every time I had to hear them talk and grunt and hnnng and huff and puff.
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
There's no auto attack though? at least, Cloud has his basic combo, punisher combo, heavy attack, wide attack, transition attack, plus disorder, deadly dodge and parry.
The game should definitely be harder to force you to use them though. Much like DMC or any other action game you can beat the normal mode with only the basic combo. But I wouldn't say that mean DMC3 has an auto attack.
You literally have all the time in the world. You are encouraged to slow things down and assess at any time using a single button press even if you don't want to spend ATB.
Anyway didn't want to try to tell you that you gotta like the style. But couldn't ignore those things since they were just false.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Holding X auto-attacks for sure. And everything else you do by selecting an option from a menu.
And I don't think I agree that you have "all the time in the world". Enemies and bosses will keep attacking you, so you have to be active all the time. I guess you could maybe just run around like a chicken to avoid getting hit while thinking about what to do next, but it's not like in a turn-based system where you can literally not touch your controller for five minutes while you think about your next move.
Last edited:
Excellent, we don't need a full open world if that means that the pacing of the main story is ruined by tons of fillers and boring quests that last hours between main missions.
Open world is great if you have the resources to fill it with meaningful contents everywhere. If it's the Ubisoft formula it's uneeded.
I think that FFXVI will be region based or wide area but I'd be totally fine with something like FF7R that I loved (about FF7 I found Yoshida's comment about the fact he can't release the game in parts interesting....it's almost like he's suggesting that the other team is going open world).
Open world is great if you have the resources to fill it with meaningful contents everywhere. If it's the Ubisoft formula it's uneeded.
I think that FFXVI will be region based or wide area but I'd be totally fine with something like FF7R that I loved (about FF7 I found Yoshida's comment about the fact he can't release the game in parts interesting....it's almost like he's suggesting that the other team is going open world).
Last edited:
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
Ok I’m sorry lol but I’m not sure you know what auto-attack means. You press a button to do a basic attack.
Holding X only works for Aerith and Barrett because they’re magic and guns respectively. You can’t hold X with Cloud and Tifa.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Holding the basic attack button (which might be Square rather than X, don't remember) definitely does an auto-combo with Cloud as well. I'm very sure I haven't dreamt this.
But either way, pressing that button feels like you're giving Cloud a command to attack, not like you're actually attacking yourself. Maybe that doesn't make sense to you, but that's how it felt to me.
Last edited:
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
So I’m sure you remember Cloud having two “stances.” For each one, you can hold the attack button for ONE combo (meaning you can’t just hold it for an endless combo like XV), or you can tap per sword slash. However, holding the attack button gives a different animation in both stances, so they serve different purposes.
Lethal01
Member
It literally doesn't, that's just demonstrably untrue, Are you mixing this game up with XV? Holding X does a single unique attack no combo or anything like that
Also no, as Cloud you have atleast 2 combo routes and 4 unique attacks that you can manually use without any menu. I'm not saying it's DMC level, but it's not Xenoblade or FFXV either. It's just wrong to say you just have an auto attack and everything else is in the menus.
As a side not you can also just use shortcuts so every face button does another attack to make it more like you have access to atleast 8 attacks without menus.
The main feature of the game is that you can hit X and slow the game down so you can think and select attacks. If at any point an enemy or enemies are attacking and you want to think about what to do you just Hit X and the game comes nearly to a halt. You can halt the battle at any point, look around and think of your options.
I literally have the game open right now just to make sure I'm not wasting your time with any bullshit. I'm not expecting you to perfectly remember 3 hours of a game you didn't like.
Last edited:
pleaseinsertdisctwo
Member
I haven’t played the game in around 4 months, but I was under the impression that holding the attack button would perform a 3 hit combo, but only one time. And even then, that 3 hit combo is different from a regular one where you tap the button after each slash. Obv I could be wrong! But my overall point is that VIIR has nothing near an “auto attack.”
EDMIX
Member
Everyone one of your post doesn't explain what the fuck he is talking about sir.
yea, let me guess, doesn't "feel" like this or that huh? Its a fucking cop out, its begging for a "good" or "feels" like this or that example that you made up in your head based on feelings and fanfiction with zero objective features that one can factually measure.
Give a fucking example of what Yoshida is talking about. I'm not asking for fucking feelings of "feelz goodz", simply give a factual example of what he is speaking of. You can cry over 1.1 examples given, then cry over a AC Ubisoft example and then really start pretending this man is asking for a normal thing, yet you yourself have zero example of what this man is asking for.
It argues what many of us stated, he is asking for something that doesn't define open world games, isn't normal and is so exaggerated, he made it sound like FF couldn't be open world if it didn't fit this global thing, never mind that isn't some standard idea of open world games in the first place to reach to say something stupid like 15 years to do. So of course people will fucking bring up 1.1 world examples if the man is saying 15 years, he nor you have given any example to ground what the fuck is being stated.
? Who the fuck said I'd be skipping it? Who said the Starfield example was in favor of that game vs this? You don't even get why that was given as an example, you just think I'm saying it to bash this game and to prop up Starfield. Nothing stated regarding that was in favor of 1 vs the other. I don't think you understand that as you just sound really, really triggered that you don't have some better way of explaining what this man means.
Starfield has those massive 1000 planets, empty or not...it didn't fucking take them 15 years. Thus, to argue some open world game he is talking about to take 15 years would make sense to argue some 1.1 thing if he himself is saying "global story within an open world". We have several titles that did some 1.1 type deal that didn't take 15 years to make, thus one can only assume he might be taking that word "Global" a bit literally.
So this isn't some fanboy shit of Starfield vs FF, this is telling you that game has 1000 planets you fucking travel to and it didn't take 15 years to make, to say "global story within an open world" and to say 15 years, is clearly to suggest some massive undertaking, to say its lessor is to concede to the very argument i made about Ubisoft already doing that with The Crew....maybe thats what makes you mad btw. All you are talking about is a Ubisoft game and saying the areas this time a separated by water....even with Starfield example, its separated by Space....even with the GTA SA example its separated by desert, a forest etc. THATS what I think pisses you off, its not some wild brand new idea bud. Its why you don't want to give any examples =)
Ubisoft didn't take 15 years to make The Crew 1 or 2. All this man is saying is he wants to make that type of game, but to say 15 years tells me he is exaggerating that or it was taken out of context or something.
Morrie’s wig shop
Member
I hope this game is announced as also play on Xbox at the last second, just to produce another meltdown “square just shot themselfs in the foot” post.
Just because it’s not open world doesn’t mean it can’t be vast or explored extensively. The quote about turn based is dumb, it could’ve evolved with the technology. For example they could’ve played with having an action rpg move sets but still have it turn based.
Just because it’s not open world doesn’t mean it can’t be vast or explored extensively. The quote about turn based is dumb, it could’ve evolved with the technology. For example they could’ve played with having an action rpg move sets but still have it turn based.
Pegasus Actual
Member
Modern FF sounds like some bitch-ass bullshit, I don't think I've really touched the franchise since my FFX save was deleted like 2/3 of the way through the game.
They want like 75 bucks for those "Pixel Remasters" on Steam. Summer sale get it down to 30 and maybe we'll talk. Maybe.
They want like 75 bucks for those "Pixel Remasters" on Steam. Summer sale get it down to 30 and maybe we'll talk. Maybe.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Ok, so it's not full auto-attack, but there are automatic elements to it (like auto combos where all you do is hold a button). And I think my main issue, like I said, is that it feels like you're giving the characters commands to attack (even the one you're currently actively controlling) rather than actually attacking yourself 1:1 like in a fully real-time system. And that's fine in an actual turn-based system, but this is neither fully tactical/turn-based nor fully real-time, and this middle ground just didn't work for me. It feels like the game can't decide what it wants to be, and I somehow found it simultaneously boring and chaotic.
Last edited:
Lethal01
Member
No, you press one button and do one attack, you hold a button to do one attack. I don't get the confusion here.
Fair enough, maybe there's too much start up to the attacks for you or something. I hear it had more start up and less attack cancelling in the PS4 version but I've mostly played PS5 one so I can't comment on that. I can also get not feeling connected to the characters when you are always going in menus, that's why I use the shortcuts heavily.
Anyway wasn't trying to change your mind on it. You posted some demonstrably wrong stuff just wanted to correct 2 things that were objectively wrong.
Last edited:
saturnalian
Member
Edit, wrong quote
Last edited:
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
Once again, the last turn-based mainline FF game came out in freaking 2001. 21 years ago. It’s been non-turn-based for longer than it was turn-based.
If you prefer turn-based then whatever, that’s your preference. But stop acting like this is some dramatic new turn of events and a slap in the face for the fans.
Similar threads
- Poll