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[Draugoth]

An open-world Final Fantasy 16 ‘would’ve taken 15 years to make’, claims producer | VGC

“It is practically impossible to ask for everything”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

Final Fantasy 16 ditched turn-based combat to appeal to younger generations, producer says | VGC

Final Fantasy producer Naoki Yoshida has said that Final Fantasy 16 will ditch the turn-based combat in order to appeal to a new, younger audience.

www.videogameschronicle.com

Listing the main aims for the project, Yoshida said: "I want a story of a hero who saves the world, because this is Final Fantasy. I want a summon to go wild and destroy the map. I want to release this game as soon as possible. I cannot release this game in parts.

"When considering these four main points, I believe it is practically impossible to ask for everything. If we had a development period of about 15 years, we may have had the opportunity of challenging ourselves with an open world [smiles]. After all, it's almost impossible in terms of time and cost to create a global story within an open world.

Speaking in the latest issue of Famitsu, translated for VGC by contributor Robert Sephazon, the developer said that the team had to reassess the audience Final Fantasy was appealing to:

I'm from a generation that grew up with command and turn-based RPGs. I think I understand how interesting and immersive it can be. On the other hand, for the past decade or so, I've seen quite a number of opinions saying 'I don't understand the attraction of selecting commands in video games'.

This opinion is only increasing, particularly with younger audiences who do not typically play RPGs.

Yoshida went on to explain that he believes the evolution in console technology has pushed RPGs towards action-based mechanics rather than turn-based:

For several console generations now, all character expressions can be done in real-time. Actions such as 'press the trigger and your character will shoot a gun' and 'press the button and your character will swing their sword' can now be easily expressed without going through a command system. This is not an argument of what is good or bad, but there is a difference based on the player's preferences and age. Furthermore, there is a big difference between a command system and a turn-based system, and these are often conflated, but are two different concepts. RPGs originated with tabletop RPGs, and I think that gaming RPGs were invented by replacing the tabletop discussions with commands in video games.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

 

[wipeout364]

So this is not an open world game? That’s really weird.

 

[Ellery]

That does sound okay with me. Much better than whatever happened to XV.

Excited to see how this game plays when it comes out.

 

[a multicultural team of v]

 

[Clear]

Yoshida's a smart guy. I approve the directness of his approach and statements about it.

 

[TLZ]

There's room for both. Not everything has to turn action based.

 

[killatopak]

While it would be amazing as that sounds like something the original FF15 was supposed to be, I also know it takes monumental effort and time to do so. I wish Yoshida good luck and hope the game is good. I fully trust him after his credentials and way he handles game development.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I’m far from a youngling but I can’t stand the traditional DQ/FF JRPG battle systems anymore. Good riddance.

Also glad it’s not open world. Last thing I need is another game filled with zany quest giver NPCs asking for you to forage for tomatoes and shit (and you know that’s what we would get).

 

[Furball]

Either it take 15 year to make or u got graphic like SO6 to shorten development time and budget also i guess playable party member also contribute to that

 

[Doom85]

I mean, I’m not mad it’s neither open world or turn based, but:

A) games like BOTW and Horizon 1 and 2 did not take 15 years or even close to make,
and B) Persona 5 and Dragon Quest 11 (and hell, Fire Emblem 3 Houses, yes it’s a strategy RPG, but still turn based) were both very successful, hell even less mainstream RPGs like Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth did well enough to get a follow up “despite” being turn based. Also, in terms of the origin coming from tabletop RPGs, well Dungeons and Dragons has more mainstream appeal now than anything even close since it was first created, again “despite” being turn based

Again, I’m cool with real time action and no fully open world, like no explanation was even needed, but that doesn’t mean I won’t raise an eyebrow if the argument for why it “had” to be that way doesn’t match a good deal of evidence

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

I know right. I could probably churn out 10 open world games a year as a one man developer. /s

 

[crackajack]

15 years? okay
Definitely means it would have been as good and polished as Stalker and DNF!

 

[TrueLegend]

Everything he is saying is good news.
I dont want open world FF games because story takes backseat in purely open world games or is at odds with it like what happened to watch dogs and to a degree in Red Dead Redemption . Appeal of real time combat is more than understandable. The beauty of combat lies in execution. The change in action camera in god of war was a concern but then you got to play it and realized you know what this is better and refined even if I loved the original ones. Two different things can be better at the same time. Nothing against turn based combat but these new direction in FF is what I want. Infact many games need to ditch open world for delivering impactful stories.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

What makes FF games (and many other JRPGs) so epic is that they’re these massive globe-spanning adventures (and sometimes even multiple worlds, the moon, etc).

Whereas FF XV and most other open-world games take place in an area that’s maybe a few square miles. Then they have to cram it full of bullshit for you to do so they can justify developing a small area in such great detail.

No thanks.

 

[balls of snow]

 

[mortal]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

In terms of manpower, Ubisoft are several times large than Square Enix.
It is one of the reasons why they are able to do annual and biennial releases with AAA budgets.

Tbh quantity doesn't necessarily equate to quality.

 

[Rat Rage]

Yoshida can fuck right off.

 

[Graciaus]

Fuck young people for not liking turn based games.

 

[Pejo]

Withholding judgement until the game releases to see if his ideas are good or full of shit.

Personally I would love to see a more traditional FF again (FF4-9), but apparently he thinks that chasing the fortnite fans is going to be big for FF (I disagree).

I just hope they don't bastardize DQ with 12. I need at least one bigger budget turn-based JRPG in my life.

 

[KingHippo1967]

The reason Ubisoft can do them in a short period and this would take 15 years is because he's already said Final Fantasy XVI's story will span the world, as opposed to a small region. So if you wanted to make it open-world, it would need to literally be an open WORLD, not just a 30km square or something

 

[Sub_Level]

So this is not an open world game? That’s really weird.

Its just large zones like XII and XIV. Most open world games lack quality to be blunt. Glad they aren’t going in that direction.

Dumb comment about turn based tho, Im pretty sure Pokemon and Persona are very popular with young people.

 

[Pejo]

The reason Ubisoft can do them in a short period and this would take 15 years is because he's already said Final Fantasy XVI's story will span the world, as opposed to a small region. So if you wanted to make it open-world, it would need to literally be an open WORLD, not just a 30km square or something

It's very possible to reduce world scale while still maintaining the "vastness" feeling in an open world. Genshin Impact does this really well. There are tricks to making cities feel big while not really taking up much map space, providing vistas to make things look bigger and further away, etc.

 

[SlimySnake]

I am not a youngling but ive always hated turn based combat systems. This aint the 90s. Lets move on and let me actually PLAY my games.

 

[Belthazar]

I mean, I’m not mad it’s neither open world or turn based, but:

A) games like BOTW and Horizon 1 and 2 did not take 15 years or even close to make

Read the thread, he means that it would take 15 years to make an open-world game that takes place around an entire planet. He wants a global scale adventure.

All of those games mentioned take place in a small patch of land that's smaller than even a small country, not in an entire planet.

 

[Punished Miku]

I'm fine with it not being open world. Kind of makes me more interested honestly.

Turn based makes sense when you have actual strategic depth that requires you to think deeply on each turn. If you're just selecting attack, or a few simple options it can be done in real time. Something like Triangle Strategy with elevation and combat depth shines in turn based. It's basically like chess. If you have to think that much on each move, that's when turn based is appropriate.

 

[Umbasaborne]

Im getting major “hd towns are hard” vibes from this quote

 

[Belthazar]

It's very possible to reduce world scale while still maintaining the "vastness" feeling in an open world. Genshin Impact does this really well. There are tricks to making cities feel big while not really taking up much map space, providing vistas to make things look bigger and further away, etc.

If you'd reduce scale on a planet to be the usual open-world size we would end up with this:

Also, Genshin Impact is a couple islands big... Not an entire planet.

 

[Fredrik]

I think this is a terrible decision. I love realtime combat if it’s great, but it really isn’t in FF.

 

[GymWolf]

So many bullshits in a single sentence...

 

[Kacho]

Yoshida's a smart guy. I approve the directness of his approach and statements about it.

Didn't he drop the ball when it came to Demon's Souls back in 2009?

Anyway, more power to them trying to reach a broader audience. The real time shit is bad and I'll never be down with it. That's why I stick to the classics. When you try to appeal to everyone you appeal to no one.

 

[Damigos]

Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?

Half of it is copy paste and the other computer generated.
I am glad FF is going this route.
Something like God of War (semi open) is my sweet spot

 

[Ghost of Caelid]

I liked the open world in 15...best part of the game. I don't think 16 will be up my alley given the setting and that most FF games just don't speak to me. More power to them tho, hopefully this means KH4 won't take 15 years like 3.

 

[Whitecrow]

I have lots of fun with turn based combat tho...

Those 'younglings' should be less stubborn and actually give opportunities to things.

 

[Clear]

Didn't he drop the ball when it came to Demon's Souls back in 2009?

Wrong Yoshida! This is Naoki Yoshida not Shuhei Yoshida.

 

[Lethal01]

The reason Ubisoft can do them in a short period and this would take 15 years is because he's already said Final Fantasy XVI's story will span the world, as opposed to a small region. So if you wanted to make it open-world, it would need to literally be an open WORLD, not just a 30km square or something

Or just cram the planet into 50km

 

[SlimySnake]

Didn't he drop the ball when it came to Demon's Souls back in 2009?

Not the same Yoshida.

 

[Doom85]

Read the thread, he means that it would take 15 years to make an open-world game that takes place around an entire planet. He wants a global scale adventure.

All of those games mentioned take place in a small patch of land that's smaller than even a small country, not in an entire planet.

Man, it’s almost like some of those open world games, or any games with fields and such, also aren’t meant to be exact scale or something…..

Like, does he think in Ocarina of Time that Kokiri Forest is actually meant to be literally 3 minutes away from Hyrule Castle?

It’s called scaling, seriously. Anyone could have a game‘s entire world, as long as it’s not Earth as we know its scale and layout, be open world and work. Nobody is asking for a realistic scale of a planet. That would mean walking between towns would take actual DAYS of play time. No open world game I’m aware of bothers with that level of realism for obvious reasons.

So really, good job. You just made the developer’s argument even more baffling.

 

[Kacho]

Wrong Yoshida! This is Naoki Yoshida not Shuhei Yoshida.

Not the same Yoshida.

Haha thanks for clarifying

 

[Belthazar]

Man, it’s almost like some of those open world games, or any games with fields and such, also aren’t meant to be exact scale or something…..

Like, does he think in Ocarina of Time that Kokiri Forest is actually meant to be literally 3 minutes away from Hyrule Castle?

It’s called scaling, seriously. Anyone could have a game‘s entire world, as long as it’s not Earth as we know its scale and layout, be open world and work. Nobody is asking for a realistic scale of a planet. That would mean walking between towns would take actual DAYS of play time. No open world game I’m aware of bothers with that level of realism for obvious reasons.

So really, good job. You just made the developer’s argument even more baffling.

So, if it's apparently so easy to do then point me to an AAA open-world game that takes place in an entire planet. Just one would suffice, thank you.

 

[FStubbs]

Ditching turn based battle system to appeal to "younglings".

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I'm fine with it not being open world. Kind of makes me more interested honestly.

Turn based makes sense when you have actual strategic depth that requires you to think deeply on each turn. If you're just selecting attack, or a few simple options it can be done in real time. Something like Triangle Strategy with elevation and combat depth shines in turn based. It's basically like chess. If you have to think that much on each move, that's when turn based is appropriate.

I love SRPGs where you have to move and position your team (do I try to keep my distance with ranged attacks? Rush in for a quick kill but leave myself open to counterattack if I fail? Try to lure the enemy into a less advantageous position? Etc). There are plenty of strategic decisions and risk/reward propositions you have to make.

I’m bored to death of traditional turn-based JRPG battle systems where your guys stand on one side and the enemy stands on the other side. Either they’re piss-easy and you just pick “attack” from a menu until you win, or else they try to ratchet up the difficulty and end up being very tedious.

Good riddance. If S-E wants to give us another FF Tactics then I’d be overjoyed. But I’m good if they never make another ATB game again.

 

[MagiusNecros]

I wish Yoshida would take his own advice and ditch the tired and used FFXIV content formula to appeal to "younglings".

 

[Chukhopops]

On the other hand, for the past decade or so, I've seen quite a number of opinions saying 'I don't understand the attraction of selecting commands in video games'.

This opinion is only increasing, particularly with younger audiences who do not typically play RPGs.

Well that’s honest at least. I always felt that the over-simplification and focus on action / flashiness was made to target a younger audience but now it’s basically confirmed as a deliberate thing.

 

[Fbh]

I don't really get all the talk and drama over the real time combat. Forums, podcasts, news sites, etc, everyone is talking as if this was some shocking new direction for the franchise when mainline FF hasn't had traditional turn based combat in over 20 years. The closest one was maybe FFXIII but even that was quite different with just one character being directly controller by the player and a higher focus on assigning roles rather than specific moves.

Also reading comprehension people, he isn't saying it takes 15 years to make an open world. He is saying it would take 15 years to make an open world that would allow them to tell the story they want to tell.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I think this is a terrible decision. I love realtime combat if it’s great, but it really isn’t in FF.

They got Ryota Suzuki for the combat director. He worked on DMC V, Dragon’s Dogma, and Marvel vs Capcom 2.

I think it’s in good hands and will be nothing like FF XV

 

[Doom85]

So, if it's apparently so easy to do then point me to an AAA open-world game that takes place in an entire planet. Just one would suffice, thank you.

You’re really not getting what I’m saying. Even if lore says otherwise, some open world games could represent the whole planet like BOTW if that’s what the writer(s) said it was. It’s not Earth so the argument “but it’s only one land mass!” is irrelevant, not to mention the theory that Earth itself used to have only one massive land mass just further strengthens my point.

Also, fuck, open planet is easy when we’ve already had open-Galaxy:

 

[Fredrik]

They got Ryota Suzuki for the combat director. He worked on DMC V, Dragon’s Dogma, and Marvel vs Capcom 2.

I think it’s in good hands and will be nothing like FF XV

Interesting!

 

[Belthazar]

You’re really not getting what I’m saying. Even if lore says otherwise, some open world games could represent the whole planet like BOTW if that’s what the writer(s) said it was. It’s not Earth so the argument “but it’s only one land mass!” is irrelevant, not to mention the theory that Earth itself used to have only one massive land mass just further strengthens my point.

Also, fuck, open planet is easy when we’ve already had open-Galaxy:

So... The only example you have is a procedurally generated indie title? Ok, then I guess you couldn't name what I asked for.

And no, BOTW's or HZD's map couldn't pass for what he's going for. He wants a world with multiple countries and multiple continents like Final Fantasy used to have. They could have said those small patches of land in those games were an entire planet, but that wouldn't make them the a rich world like what he wants to go fo.

 

[Pejo]

If you'd reduce scale on a planet to be the usual open-world size we would end up with this:

Also, Genshin Impact is a couple islands big... Not an entire planet.

This was FF6's "world" for instance, which just amounted to 3 islands. You could absolutely do a FF world to Genshin's scale and make it feel massive. Just because Genshin is a mega-continent doesn't mean you couldn't split it into 2-3 sub-continents.