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[Aion002]

Of course, it is. The trouble is SEGA or Nagoshi-san don't allow their studio teams to make little else than Yakuza and the yearly (or 1 and half years) development cycle doesn't allow much experimentation either, never mind the same team is also tasked with making the Remasters too
SEGA could do so much better too, its not like Ghost Of Tsushima is that amazing anyway. The setting nice, but the gameplay gets dull really fast and the combat got nothing on Ninja Gaiden.

Ghost is amazing for many other reasons, the gameplay is competent and better than many other open world games... Comparing it with NG it's unfair since their priorities are different.

Nagoshi with Sato did tried to make new games, remember Binary Domain (that in my opinion is a great game)... However, Sega kinda said: go back to yakuza....

Regarding a Binary Domain 2…

Daisuke Sato: “As far as I’m concerned, I would love to make a sequel. It is purely a question of practicallity and administration. It’s up to Sega to decide whether or not they want to do it. (Laughs.)”

Yakuza Interview Somehow Leads to a Binary Domain 2 Question - PlayStation LifeStyle

A Yakuza interview featuring producer Daisuke Saito led to questions about a Yakuza 0 sequel, and even talk of Binary Domain.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

 

[Team Andromeda]

Ghost is amazing for many other reasons, the gameplay is competent and better than many other open world games... Comparing it with NG it's unfair since their priorities are different.

I don't agree and even with the game being open world the combat could and should have been better. Also, I wouldn't like to think about how many SEGA games Nagoshi-sand hasn't greenlighted and turned dow,n whilst he's been Creative Officer . You can almost picture the meeting: you have teams showing off new concepts looking to get approval, and Nagoshi-san when asked whats he's got. Well.. I've got another Yakuza game Meeting closed !!.

SEGA and the Yakuza Team needs a break from the series and look to make something else. Yakuza is so much like Assassin's Creed these days pretty much the game time and time again and worst still the Yakuza series still use most of the locations found in part II. Not to say they're bad games or not well made. But the having games every year is too much, it's bad enough for Fifa

 

[Sleepwalker]

Waiting to play this on the PS5 is gonna be a real struggle.

 

[Keihart]

Somehow I keep forgetting DmC, so I guess you're right.

Yeah, there's this weird school of thought in western studios that, for some reason, a combo system is a bad thing.
Assassin's Creed, Batman, The Witcher, Horizon and now GoT, all have this default "random melee attack" button, where the animation changes every time depending on the position and distance. It's a good idea, but it takes out the control and makes the combat feel more scripted.

I'm not sure about lock-on, I feel like an invisible system is much preferable to a manual one, as Ninja Gaiden and Ninja Gaiden 2 demonstrated years ago.

Maybe it's just that some developers should not be afraid to let the player miss their melee attacks.

GoT doesn't use contextual moves tho, they are one button combos that are preset, you can miss when not in range. It could use some directional inputs to expand the move set, but that would be a hard change without adding a manual lock on. You have some specials not stringed to combos via long presses tho, so there is that.
I wouldn't compare it to your other examples, the only real sin in GoT's combat it's how overpowered some of your tools feel for the setting, healing using your resolve feels pretty cheap and forgiving, the ninja tools can feel redundant at times too. It's a good base to expand upon, it didn't fall in the traps of the games you compared it to.

 

[01011001]

I don't agree and even with the game being open world the combat could and should have been better.

yeah I'll never understand arguments like "oh well the focus is different" or "oh well it's a different kinda game" when the fighting system of a game is sub par.

if a game has a prominently featured system that system should be as good as possible.
but, like I already said in an earlier post, I think western developers just don't get it... they don't seem to get how to make a good fighting system that comes even close to compete with japanese games, where even cheap low budget titles have better ones than the big AAA western titles.

 

[Keihart]

The basics of the combat in GoT are good, they just need to expand on them and balance it better.
Edit: some combat/story spoilers towards the end of the video.

 

[01011001]

The basics of the combat in GoT are good, they just need to expand on them and balance it better.
Edit: some combat/story spoilers towards the end of the video.

the combat in GoT is serviceable at best. it feels unresponsive, the animations aren't conveying what is and isn't a combo and where you are currently at in a combo well enough and the auto lock on is way too much.

and there are even western examples that are roughly in the same genre that top it easily like Darksiders 1 and 2
their fighting systems feel way more responsive, have easily distinguishable combo animations and the attacks have way more force behind them (better frame timing)

GoT is to Japanese fighting systems what Mortal Kombat 11 is compared to any good Japanese fighting game, it's not bad but way behind the curve comparatively

 

[Aion002]

I don't agree and even with the game being open world the combat could and should have been better.

yeah I'll never understand arguments like "oh well the focus is different" or "oh well it's a different kinda game" when the fighting system of a game is sub par.

if a game has a prominently featured system that system should be as good as possible.
but, like I already said in an earlier post, I think western developers just don't get it... they don't seem to get how to make a good fighting system that comes even close to compete with japanese games, where even cheap low budget titles have better ones than the big AAA western titles.

Well, I like the combat system in GoT, so let's agree to disagree.... Still, a game can be excellent and have "sub par" systems, like Red Dead Redemption 2, a game that has an amazing world, full of unique things that makes it a complete amazing experience, yet it has a "battle system" that is... Well, kinda bad, according to many (but I still enjoy it a lot, I like slow and fast gameplay mechanics). But that doesn't change the fact that is one of the most amazing games ever made.


Games have focus, Nioh 2 has the best combat ever (probably, on Souls like) and I love it, still, it has some issues and so on. There is no perfect game, each game has a strong point and a weak point.... And those points might vary from person to person.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

People are allowed to make games set on any fucking country, Kojimbo built a career making games set in the west and nobody gave him shit for it. So did the Brits with GTA, there is no need seek validation or get the ok to do so either. Twitter screechers have no say on shit, so pay em no mind.

I don't agree and even with the game being open world the combat could and should have been better. Also, I wouldn't like to think about how many SEGA games Nagoshi-sand hasn't greenlighted and turned dow,n whilst he's been Creative Officer . You can almost picture the meeting: you have teams showing off new concepts looking to get approval, and Nagoshi-san when asked whats he's got. Well.. I've got another Yakuza game Meeting closed !!.

SEGA and the Yakuza Team needs a break from the series and look to make something else. Yakuza is so much like Assassin's Creed these days pretty much the game time and time again and worst still the Yakuza series still use most of the locations found in part II. Not to say they're bad games or not well made. But the having games every year is too much, it's bad enough for Fifa

Absolutely right.

 

[01011001]

Well, I like the combat system in GoT, so let's agree to disagree.... Still, a game can be excellent and have "sub par" systems, like Red Dead Redemption 2, a game that has an amazing world, full of unique things that makes it a complete amazing experience, yet it has a "battle system" that is... Well, kinda bad, according to many (but I still enjoy it a lot, I like slow and fast gameplay mechanics). But that doesn't change the fact that is one of the most amazing games ever made.


Games have focus, Nioh 2 has the best combat ever (probably) and I lovet it, still, it has some issues and so on. There is no perfect game, each game has a strong point and a weak point.... And that weak point might vary from person to person.

RDR2 is a terrible game through and through,the mission design is so linear that LITERALLY a single wrong step outside of the invisible mission boundary gets you a game over, the controls are so atrocious that even Surgeon Simulator feels responsive compared to it and the pacing is ridiculous with way too much riding horses for way too fucking long way too often.

atrocious game in every way, the only interesting and well made thing about it is it's open world, but that alone doesn't save it IMO.

and here's the thing, I'm not saying the fighting in GoT is bad , I'm saying that it's kinda ridiculous that western devs still don't get it, they still make fighting feel way too floaty and way too unresponsive compared to japanese games. even Netherrealm, a studio that has almost exclusively be making fighting games for 30 years, still can't get their shit together and compete with even the lowest budget fighting games like URIEL, a game so low budget it literally looks like a dreamcast port... yet it feel and animates better than Mortal Kombat 11 by a landslide.

and again, MK11 is not bad because it is worse than low budget Japanese games, it is simply kinda sad that it is worse and I really don't get it... why is that a thing?

 

[SkylineRKR]

RDR2 tries to be too realistic and overstays its welcome. Simple things like getting on and off a horse, and your gear, I don't like that long winded shit. Its a pretentious game.

GoT is more straightforward, has good controls and I like the fighting though the parry timing is something I still don't get yet. Especially against spears. Its feels a bit w-dev floaty and laggy. This game shouldn't chase NG, its not a character action game, but some more finesse would be nice. The finishers etc all feel good and grounded. Its just the input and timing that feels kinda off. Nioh nails the combat better, but fails at level design, immersion, storytelling and almost everything else. I've never played Nioh 2 but what I've seen of it seems to be not too drastically different from 1 which I started to hate beyond the halfway point. Was done with it.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

URIEL, a game so low budget it literally looks like a dreamcast port

Get your eyes checked.

 

[Aion002]

RDR2 is a terrible game through and through,the mission design is so linear that LITERALLY a single wrong step outside of the invisible mission boundary gets you a game over, the controls are so atrocious that even Surgeon Simulator feels responsive compared to it and the pacing is ridiculous with way too much riding horses for way too fucking long way too often.

atrocious game in every way, the only interesting and well made thing about it is it's open world, but that alone doesn't save it IMO.

and here's the thing, I'm not saying the fighting in GoT is bad , I'm saying that it's kinda ridiculous that western devs still don't get it, they still make fighting feel way too floaty and way too unresponsive compared to japanese games. even Netherrealm, a studio that has almost exclusively be making fighting games for 30 years, still can't get their shit together and compete with even the lowest budget fighting games like URIEL, a game so low budget it literally looks like a dreamcast port... yet it feel and animates better than Mortal Kombat 11 by a landslide.

and again, MK11 is not bad because it is worse than low budget Japanese games, it is simply kinda sad that it is worse and I really don't get it... why is that a thing?

I think it's perspective.


You just don't enjoy the western approach to gameplay and animations... That's it. I am with you in the fact that Japan does a lot of things better in the gameplay and animation aspects of games.... But still, for many games like RDR2 or GTAV feels great. I like Rockstar games a lot, the same thing with the Witcher 3, were most people just say that the combat is garbage, for me and many people it was fun...

In Mortal Kombat case.... Well, it is what it is and people enjoy it for what it is.

But that doesn't stop me from enjoying Sekiro, Bloodborne, Nioh, Dark Souls and other games that have excellent gameplay controls.


What I am trying to say is... maybe each game is different and comparing one to another might end up in frustration, because each dev has an approach and vision of their ideal gameplay?

For example, I hate Zelda and Mortal Kombat, never liked the gameplay of any of those games.... But I don't think that means that both series are "terrible".... Just that I dislike them.

 

[Freeman]

Here I am, counting my blessings that I can play as Pedro II in Civ and Eddy Gordo in Tekken. Japan got it easy.

 

[Keihart]

the combat in GoT is serviceable at best. it feels unresponsive, the animations aren't conveying what is and isn't a combo and where you are currently at in a combo well enough and the auto lock on is way too much.

and there are even western examples that are roughly in the same genre that top it easily like Darksiders 1 and 2
their fighting systems feel way more responsive, have easily distinguishable combo animations and the attacks have way more force behind them (better frame timing)

GoT is to Japanese fighting systems what Mortal Kombat 11 is compared to any good Japanese fighting game, it's not bad but way behind the curve comparatively

You bringin up Darksiders made laugh, in my book, that's trash combat.
Responsiveness it's easy, nothing to praise. Mind you i'm one of the cuckoos that spend hundred of hours in games like Bayonetta 1, DMC or even Vanquish, learning the mechanics so i'm kinda more interested in the mechanical aspect and how that plays into the aesthetics of combat than things like "responsiveness" or "satisfying". GoT has very distinguishable animations, you are arguing nonsense talking about "force" which is more an aesthetic aspect that mechanical.
Also, you distinguishing what it's a combo and what it isn't, isn't a pro but a con, ideally you want every move to merge together, look at DMCV and how they have changed animations to merge better and to the inexperienced combos don't look jank anymore having going as far as to add an actual step on enemies when doing jump cancel.

 

[Keihart]

Get your eyes checked.

Yeah, street fighter still looks better and so does Garou, DC had some bangers.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Games have focus, Nioh 2 has the best combat ever (probably, on Souls like) and I love it, still, it has some issues and so on. There is no perfect game, each game has a strong point and a weak point.... And those points might vary from person to person.

I haven't played Nioh 2 only the 1st game. For me, the game that featured the best combat was Ninja Gaiden 2 and nothing yet come close. It also disappoints me greatly that SEGA hasn't looked to make a kick ass 3D Ninja game this gen or even looked to make a Soul's rip off for the home, as it did in the Arcades with Souls Reverse. Just build on the Arcade template for a home version like SEGA used to do for its home ports on the Mega Drive or Saturn

 

[Bkdk]

I wish sucker punch would let Japan devs to work on character art and cooperate with the music department. Boring character art is the biggest weak point of the game.