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Opinion Business Game Dev Xbox Series X Will Push Subscription Model For Next-Gen Launch, Phil Spencer Says.

Bogroll

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You can buy all consoles on the drip from a lot of places in the UK. Is this not a thing elsewhere in the world?
 

Kagey K

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You can buy all consoles on the drip from a lot of places in the UK. Is this not a thing elsewhere in the world?
It is if you want to pay crazy high percentage rates and end up paying close to 3000 on a 500 item.

Fair loans and fair interest aren’t really a thing in NA.

You either buy smart or pay hard.
 
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Bogroll

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It is if you want to pay crazy high percentage rates and end up paying close to 3000 on a 500 item.

Fair loans and fair interest aren’t really a thing in NA.

You either buy smart or pay hard.
It ain't that bad in the Uk AFAIK if you go to the right places, you might pay £50- £100 more. Saying that I've only bought a Amiga 30+ years ago and i did end up paying twice as much for it but i think things are more reasonable now if you stick to the well known places.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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You can buy all consoles on the drip from a lot of places in the UK. Is this not a thing elsewhere in the world?

It is a thing in the US as well for pretty much everything but most places have insane markups to where you end up paying double or triple the cost to lease to own.

What has always made this Xbox deal great is that it includes Gold and now GamePass so you actually end up saving money.
 
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Kagey K

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It ain't that bad in the Uk AFAIK if you go to the right places, you might pay £50- £100 more. Saying that I've only bought a Amiga 30+ years ago and i did end up paying twice as much for it but i think things are more reasonable now if you stick to the well known places.
Yeah it was so out of control the governments had to come in to control the interest rates, before these new laws they were close to 40% now they can max out around 23%
 
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Bogroll

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It is a thing in the US as well for pretty much everything but most places have insane markups to where you end up paying double or triple the cost to lease to own.

What has always made this Xbox deal great is that it includes Gold and now GamePass so you actually end up saving money.
That's cool then, if you don't pay any extra at all here in the UK i might go down that route myself.
 

Kagey K

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That's cool then, if you don't pay any extra at all here in the UK i might go down that route myself.
If you already have the money saved, what’s the difference if you pay it monthly or pay outright?

Seems to be more of the same to me with the interest free loan.
 
Dec 10, 2018
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$24/month for an Xbox Series X
You may off the console over a period of 24 months.
He said the original Xbox One struggled at launch because it was $100 more expensive than the PS4.
The Xbox All Access subscription program will help "lessen the single impact of a purchase," Spencer said.

$24 ea/mo for 24 months straight = $576 for an XSX not included
$10 ea/mo for Gamepass, 24 months = $576 + 10*12*2 = $816
$10 ea/mo for EA Access, 24 months = $816 + $240 = $1,056
$10 ea/mo for xCloud, 24 months = $1,056 + $240 = $1,296
$100 to 200 for 1TB, 2TB exp. card = $1,500 roughly
2nd controller $70
new TV HDMI 2.1, 65"+ OLED $4,000
new pair of socks, shoes, scarfs and a golden shovel in Sea of Thieves, Gears Tactics, Hallo Infinite = $10,000 not included any add. games at full retail price

Oh boi, rewriting the history books and "lessen impact of a purchase" ... geebuz!! I´m partially being facetious ...
 

draliko

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Damn here in Italy is often at a zero markup splitted in ten payments, so there's absolutely no difference in paying monthly or upright. Didn't know the rates were so bad outside of here. I think the highest is about 7% in 12 months, so still ridiculous
 

draliko

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$24 ea/mo for 24 months straight = $576 for an XSX not included
$10 ea/mo for Gamepass, 24 months = $576 + 10*12*2 = $816
$10 ea/mo for EA Access, 24 months = $816 + $240 = $1,056
$10 ea/mo for xCloud, 24 months = $1,056 + $240 = $1,296
$100 to 200 for 1TB, 2TB exp. card = $1,500 roughly
2nd controller $70
new TV HDMI 2.1, 65"+ OLED $4,000
new pair of socks, shoes, scarfs and a golden shovel in Sea of Thieves, Gears Tactics, Hallo Infinite = $10,000 not included any add. games at full retail price

Oh boi, rewriting the history books and "lessen impact of a purchase" ... geebuz!! I´m partially being facetious ...
I believe that gold and gamepass are included in the deal, and the rest it's up to you. Also xcloud will be probably included if I'm not mistaken
 
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Panajev2001a

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If you already have the money saved, what’s the difference if you pay it monthly or pay outright?

Seems to be more of the same to me with the interest free loan.

GamePass and LIVE Gold may be a tipping point for me on this option, but not sure I would want to be subbed for three years straight to get all the savings. I prefer to get my HW straight if I can.
Being able to be the next in queue, priority orders, matters a bit more for the much more restricted iPhone launches (that and the Apple Care+ are what clinched the deal for iPhone Update Program for me... and that I can justify it to myself as part of my job ;)).

I think it is more about not having another loan being opened which does but your credit history that puts some people back. It is not like it is a bad advice to avoid adding more and more long term monthly charges to the account even if you can afford it... also from a fraud and security prevention point of view (checking your account and what comes out and who it goes to).
 
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TBiddy

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Because smart business is easing people into your subscription model.
Which is what they're doing and that does deserve commending.

They're playing smart and aggressive.

I agree that it is smart business. But I still fail to see how more customers in the business will hurt console gaming.
 

Panajev2001a

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I agree that it is smart business. But I still fail to see how more customers in the business will hurt console gaming.

Subscription model is first step behind iterative iPhone like HW models which is not the consoles generation model. They just become closed box PC’s you cannot customise or mod or change the parts of at will.
 

Bogroll

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If you already have the money saved, what’s the difference if you pay it monthly or pay outright?

Seems to be more of the same to me with the interest free loan.
Poster said it includes Gamepass and Gold and it saves money. I guess i'm getting tighter with money as i get older and i will be buying PS5 at launch. But your right when it boils down to it i'll will just buy both outright save the messing about.
 

Shambala

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Microsoft desperate for any type of sale next gen to put them ahead 😂😂. They even leasing that shit out 😂😂😂
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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Not the point I was making at all.

Your point doesn’t make sense for the gaming industry. For starters this isn’t going to become the standard, most people will just outright buy the consoles like they always have. Secondly consoles aren’t like phones you upgrade every year or every other year. A vast majority of people use their consoles for seven or eight plus years.

This is merely an option for those who don’t want to pay hundreds of dollars to get in. It’s not a gateway drug to the downfall of gaming, rent to own has existed for generations.
 

M1chl

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$24 ea/mo for 24 months straight = $576 for an XSX not included
$10 ea/mo for Gamepass, 24 months = $576 + 10*12*2 = $816
$10 ea/mo for EA Access, 24 months = $816 + $240 = $1,056
$10 ea/mo for xCloud, 24 months = $1,056 + $240 = $1,296
$100 to 200 for 1TB, 2TB exp. card = $1,500 roughly
2nd controller $70
new TV HDMI 2.1, 65"+ OLED $4,000
new pair of socks, shoes, scarfs and a golden shovel in Sea of Thieves, Gears Tactics, Hallo Infinite = $10,000 not included any add. games at full retail price

Oh boi, rewriting the history books and "lessen impact of a purchase" ... geebuz!! I´m partially being facetious ...
Well, GamePass ultimate probably going to have xCloud included, also EA Access cost 30bucks per year. Wonder what would be your break down of PS5 financial side of things, I guess no that much different.
 

gamerforever

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If they push a subscription model with the series x i can guaran-dam-tee its dead on arrival and the ps5 has a free pass. Microsoft needs to price the series x at £399.99 or below to stand a strong chance of competing. I say ‘competing’ because even if the ps4 is £600 and series x £500, sony will still win by a 50% majority at the very least. Lockhart will be seen as a ‘cheap’ alternative that no one will buy because the xbox brand, in terms of exclusives is very weak or non existent imo. If sony price the ps5 lower than the series x, then its an easy victory, lower teraflops or not. Microsoft are very wrong if their ‘plan’ is to simply release a cheap 4tf machine and expect people to buy one instead of a ps5. People are strongly tied to their brands and i do not expect a large swing to microsoft unless they moneyhat rockstar.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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If they push a subscription model with the series x i can guaran-dam-tee its dead on arrival and the ps5 has a free pass. Microsoft needs to price the series x at £399.99 or below to stand a strong chance of competing. I say ‘competing’ because even if the ps4 is £600 and series x £500, sony will still win by a 50% majority at the very least. Lockhart will be seen as a ‘cheap’ alternative that no one will buy because the xbox brand, in terms of exclusives is very weak or non existent imo. If sony price the ps5 lower than the series x, then its an easy victory, lower teraflops or not. Microsoft are very wrong if their ‘plan’ is to simply release a cheap 4tf machine and expect people to buy one instead of a ps5. People are strongly tied to their brands and i do not expect a large swing to microsoft unless they moneyhat rockstar.
what in gods name....
 

gamerforever

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what in gods name....

From a business perspective I think I am right in my predictions, although I highly doubt MS are stupid enough to price it above £450. I will likely get the series x day one due to its superior hardware and potentially signficantly better third party versions.
 

Hostile_18

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See that X Box all access you need to make 18 payments first before you can upgrade so unfortunately you wont be able to get an X Box Series X anywhere near launch (if it's not delayed).
 
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ruvikx

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It is if you want to pay crazy high percentage rates and end up paying close to 3000 on a 500 item.

Fair loans and fair interest aren’t really a thing in NA.

You either buy smart or pay hard.

In Amazon France you can buy a console with 4x payment instalments, without interest. I bought the One X last November for 330 euros (with Star Wars bundled) at just over 80 euros a month. I'll do the same with the Series X this coming November (insofar as I hope the economy allows for it considering coronavirus).

My "guess" is the console will cost 500 euros, just as the One X did upon release here in 2017. Spread out over 4 months, it's not hard to cover the cost.
 
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gamerforever

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See that X Box all access you need to make 18 payments first before you can upgrade so unfortunately you wont be able to get an X Box Series X anywhere near launch (if it's not delayed).

I saw that a while back and found it very bizarre. I just don't like the idea of paying interest on luxuries like video game consoles or mobile phones. By the time you pay it off, the Pro model will be out.
 
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darkinstinct

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I saw that a while back and found it very bizarre. I just don't like the idea of paying interest on luxuries like video game consoles or mobile phones. By the time you pay it off, the Pro model will be out.
That's why there was early access last year, where you could just do 12 payments and then upgrade. Because of the overall low availability in the launch window there won't be enough consoles anyway, so they rather sell them outright.
 

ZywyPL

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See that X Box all access you need to make 18 payments first before you can upgrade so unfortunately you wont be able to get an X Box Series X anywhere near launch (if it's not delayed).

MS should make a deal similar to smartphones, where you pay initially just 1$ and all the hardware cost in included into monthly subscription fees, be it 40-60$ a month, with XBL and GP included of course. Or at least a deal where you pay 99-199 initially and the rest 300-400$ are included in monthly fees, that would make a lot of people jumping into their ecosystem.
 
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Hostile_18

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MS should make a deal similar to smartphones, where you pay initially just 1$ and all the hardware cost in included into monthly subscription fees, be it 40-60$ a month, with XBL and GP included of course. Or at least a deal where you pay 99-199 initially and the rest 300-400$ are included in monthly fees, that would make a lot of people jumping into their ecosystem.

Yep despite what Phil is hinting at I dont think this will be day 1 though. Supply will likely be constrained and reserved for the first pre orders.
 

Psykodad

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Your point doesn’t make sense for the gaming industry. For starters this isn’t going to become the standard, most people will just outright buy the consoles like they always have. Secondly consoles aren’t like phones you upgrade every year or every other year. A vast majority of people use their consoles for seven or eight plus years.

This is merely an option for those who don’t want to pay hundreds of dollars to get in. It’s not a gateway drug to the downfall of gaming, rent to own has existed for generations.
All that, while lumping in GamePass.

That's smart business. Like I said, this is how things start, I'm not saying this is setting the standard right out the gate.

Paid online multiplayer on consoles also took 2 entire gens before it became the standard after MS introduced XBL.

Edit: There are already methods out there for similar payments, so this is more of a long-term gameplan than a pro-consumer approach.
 
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SleepDoctor

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This is good for those on a budget. Only similar alternative to that is rent a center where you end up paying about 2k for a $400 console
 

TBiddy

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Subscription model is first step behind iterative iPhone like HW models which is not the consoles generation model. They just become closed box PC’s you cannot customise or mod or change the parts of at will.

How does that differ from the consoles that we have now?

Not the point I was making at all.

I suppose we agree that a lower entry price will lead to more customers. How is that a bad thing?
 

Gargus

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People already are used to paying for phones that way. It could be a slam dunk for a console launch if it only cost you $25 a month.

The current All Access plan is only sold through Amazon right now and is a bit steep to buy a Xbox console at this point when prices usually drop.


These plans already exist. They are called credit card payments.
 

Panajev2001a

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Subscription model is first step behind iterative iPhone like HW models which is not the consoles generation model. They just become closed box PC’s you cannot customise or mod or change the parts of at will.

Fixed HW specs that change only once every 6-7 years and allow developers time to extract all the machine’s potential.
PC’s, like mobile phones, are stuck in a cross generation support sliding window as new HW configs constantly come into the equation every month or year thus developers have little RoI to optimise for a very specific features set (even a high level one, not to talk about a single CPU+GPU combo).

For companies believing in generations you try (you better!) to offer BC for old generation software and give incentives to user to move to the new machine and to devs to create new and exclusive software too.
Console generations also help new developers at the start or the end of the
Console generations also help new developers at the start or the end of the
 

RespawnX

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$24 ea/mo for 24 months straight = $576 for an XSX not included
$10 ea/mo for Gamepass, 24 months = $576 + 10*12*2 = $816
$10 ea/mo for EA Access, 24 months = $816 + $240 = $1,056
$10 ea/mo for xCloud, 24 months = $1,056 + $240 = $1,296
$100 to 200 for 1TB, 2TB exp. card = $1,500 roughly
2nd controller $70
new TV HDMI 2.1, 65"+ OLED $4,000
new pair of socks, shoes, scarfs and a golden shovel in Sea of Thieves, Gears Tactics, Hallo Infinite = $10,000 not included any add. games at full retail price

Oh boi, rewriting the history books and "lessen impact of a purchase" ... geebuz!! I´m partially being facetious ...

576 (XsX subscription) + 60 (EA Access) + 200 (Extra SSD) + 60 (Extra Controller) = 896 $ for the game System including the XsX, GamePass, Gold, EA Access and some extra Storage and controller over a period of 2 Years.

I don't know, but around 38 $ a month for a hobby seems fairly low. Actually the price declines with time and more family members using it. Dont think, you can get much more out for the price but you are right, you don't own any game at this point. My strategy since game pass was to buy the games I'm really into months after launch for a few bucks. Basicly saving the 50%> in respect to the release price. At the end, Microsoft receives more or less the same amount of money from me. MS has one advantage, they bound me to the Game Pass Ultimate and getting a continiously income from me. Lets see for how long ...

It's up to you to buy the 2500 bucks OLED and the gold shovel ;-)
 
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Psykodad

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I suppose we agree that a lower entry price will lead to more customers. How is that a bad thing?
Dunno, I never said that is a bad thing.
I'm talking about subscription-based gaming, not about userbases.
 
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darkinstinct

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576 (XsX subscription) + 60 (EA Access) + 200 (Extra SSD) + 60 (Extra Controller) = 896 $ for the game System including the XsX, GamePass, Gold, EA Access and some extra Storage and controller over a period of 2 Years.

I don't know, but around 38 $ a month for a hobby seems fairly low. Actually the price declines with time and more family members using it. Dont think, you can get much more out for the price but you are right, you don't own any game at this point. My strategy since game pass was to buy the games I'm really into months after launch for a few bucks. Basicly saving the 50%> in respect to the release price. At the end, Microsoft receives more or less the same amount of money from me. MS has one advantage, they bound me to the Game Pass Ultimate and getting a continiously income from me. Lets see for how long ...

It's up to you to buy the 2500 bucks OLED and the gold shovel ;-)
EA Access is only $25 a year, though.
 

Leyasu

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As a european gamepass ultimate subscriber, I would love to be able to do this.
 

-Arcadia-

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I wouldn’t mind buying it this way at all. Given that I probably need a 4K TV upgrade, this would actually be really helpful.

I’d like to see this become something of an industry standard.
 

chigstoke

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Only just caught up with this.

You would think this sort of model will be a smash hit to an awful lot of people.
Next gens system, on tick, without the interest rate included with the likes of PayPal Credit, game stores etc..., with Game Pass and Gold included. A lot of people will be going for that.

MS could be on to a real winner here. It's the way things have been headed for a while now, and I expect this to become the norm in the future.
It's a smart move. And I am loving the approach by MS for this gen compared to the launch of the original Xbox One. Such a vast difference.
 

Psykodad

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Define subscription-based gaming. Why is it a bad thing?
Because if that's the future, it'll be exactly what MS and Don Mattrick were going for with the original XBO plans.

And for the fanboys:

I lump PS Now together with GamePass, xCloud, Stadia and whatnot.
 
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Oct 26, 2018
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For me, I'll just buy it outright.

BUT, subscriptions might be a blessing in disguise. Typically if you have something under subscription.... cell phone, cable box. If something goes wrong with it (and it wasnt your fault), it should be repaired or replaced for free.

Anyone know if MS's sub plans to buy systems extends warranties to the duration of the buy out plan?