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Xbox Series X’s BCPack Texture Compression Technique 'might be' better than the PS5’s Kraken
- Thread starter greencoder
- Start date
M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Well since Control is moneyhatted by Sony I would not draw the conclusion just yet, also Kraken is not proprietary, it's just a technology for others to use.
Lethal01
Member
Yes
Sleepwalker
Gold Member
My PS5 can hold about 3-5 games max at the same time and is already failing to download update because its out of storage. They could have the best compression technology in the history of compression technology but what they needed was adequate storage space.
And yes I'm mad, I don't want to juggle games around just to be able to play multiple things, and I can't even buy a SSD to expand it yet.
Bittermich
Banned
control is a PS plus game and heavily advertised game by Sony.
Of course devs give more time to optimize for PS5.
It has nothing to do with technicals but more with marketing.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
This was one game. Can you really jump to these conclusions based on this title? Unless I'm missing other games with a significant size difference.
I wonder when Sony will activate their SSD bay? People criticized MS for their expensive expansion but it was available day 1 and you could always offload games to a cheap external drive. Sony offered none of that and there is no date when that will change. A bit of a bummer indeed.
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Bo_Hazem
Banned
Didn't age well:
Control UE:
PS5: 25GB
XSX: 42GB
Same game, yet 42% smaller.
Control UE:
PS5: 25GB
XSX: 42GB
Same game, yet 42% smaller.
Control Ultimate Edition PS5 Size Is 42% Smaller Than Xbox Series X Due To Kraken Compression Technique - PlayStation Universe
Control Ultimate Edition PS5 weighs in 42% smaller than the Xbox Series X release thanks to the console's better compression technique.
www.psu.com
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Knitted Knight
Banned
The way the hardware is built is better on PS5. The compression techniques will/are available to Xbox (Oodle etc). Once API's/techniques are up to par, it comes down to the way the hardware was engineered.
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svbarnard
Banned
Well Microsoft uses BCPack for their compression I guess what I really want to know is which is better, BCPack or Kraken?
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Xbox has more tflops. It's only natural it would also have bigger games.
pretty sure this has nothing to do with ps5 or Xbox specs. You will get the same stuff on pc and the switch as the gen goes on. this might actually be the case of Xbox compression tools being behind.
Codeblew
Member
It is proprietary because you have to buy a license to use it. Unless you use it on PS4 and PS5 since Sony bought a license for all developers of those platforms to use.
muteZX
Banned
Well Microsoft uses BCPack for their compression I guess what I really want to know is which is better, BCPack or Kraken?
Kraken for general data and Oodle texture compression for textures.
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Codeblew
Member
Kraken and BCPack are two different things. You can use Kraken ontop of BCPack and the same devs of Kraken have a way to optimize BCPack compression with Kraken. Although it is a bit lossless on the textures.Well Microsoft uses BCPack for their compression I guess what I really want to know is which is better, BCPack or Kraken?
Edit:
muteZX
mentioned the name I forgot, Oodle Textures.
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supernova8
Banned
This would all be super interesting if I could actually get my hands on either console for retail price.
OnThePathToWisdom
Member
sendit
Member
You clearly missed the memo. Wait for the tools to arrive. Until then, enjoy the short victory.
Let me guess: you have 1 or 2 Call of Duty's installed? That's more of an issue with these games, than it is with the storage. I have 330GB available on my PS5 SSD and installed Spider-Man Remastered, Spider-Man Miles Morales, Demon's Souls, Control Ultimate Edition, Bugsnax, Destruction Allstars, Sackboy and Astro's Playroom and on top of that I also installed 2 PS4 games so the loading is a bit quicker: RE2 and Minecraft. That's 10 games, 8 of them being dedicated PS5 games, with 330GB still available (!). I'm curious how you got to 3-5 games and have no space left.
I also have a 5TB external HDD hooked up that holds about 2TB of PS4 games, with a lot of stuff I don't even play (games for my kids and stuff I just downloaded from PS Now to try out).
So yeah I'm good for now.
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pasterpl
Member
Sony actually Is using 3rd party solution, so answer to your question is Microsoft, as Sony doesn’t have one, they are using 3rd party, while ms got their own, in house developed solution.
what is interesting, why cross gen first party games from Sony don’t show such a big difference eg. Miles morales PS4 version is almost identical size wise as ps5 version
i would like to see if there will be more games showing such a difference in game size?
looking at most releases to date for both consoles it seems that there were no other games using this approach on either console, so it might be a case of tools not being ready yet (for both)
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bender
What time is it?
Hitman 3 with all the H1-H2 levels installed is 59.65 GB on PS5. IIRC my Hitman 2 install with H1 levels loaded was north of 100GB on PS4.
JerryinSoCal
Member
What games do you have loaded? I have 17 loaded on mine including AAA games like AC: Valhalla, Control, WD Legion, MK 11 Ultimate, God of War, Spider-Man remastered, Miles Morales, Days Gone, Immortals Fenyx Rising, Demon's Souls, Sackboy PS5, ME: Andromeda as well as a few smaller to mid sized games like Man Eater, Astro's Playroom, Concrete Genie, WWE Battlegrounds, Warframe and Destruction AllStars. If you can only fit 3-5 games are they all Call of duty or something? Make sure you don't have both the PS4 and PS5 versions of your games on the SSD.
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JackMcGunns
Banned
Didn't age well:
Control UE:
PS5: 25GB
XSX: 42GB
Same game, yet 42% smaller.
Control Ultimate Edition PS5 Size Is 42% Smaller Than Xbox Series X Due To Kraken Compression Technique - PlayStation Universe
Control Ultimate Edition PS5 weighs in 42% smaller than the Xbox Series X release thanks to the console's better compression technique.www.psu.com
Holy necro bump Batman!
Except that Control has a larger file on XSX for other reasons, look it up.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Care to link these reasons?
All I see is speculation and money hatting accusations. It might be that there are issues with how game developers have to package their games that MS needs to fix, but again that is not something we have lots of data on either in the public domain.
I Love Rock 'n' Roll
Member
OK. When and where?
Negotiator101
Member
20% to 50% oodle, BCPack is 50% as well its a wash.
captainraincoat
Banned
So what does $250 million buy you?
By the looks of it a smaller filesize of a game that runs like crap on any platform its on
muteZX
Banned
There is obviously more than a simple compression ratio .. others parameters starting with supported BC formats, RDO, speed of decompression etc.
Negotiator101
Member
Microsoft are actively improving it as well, but you are right the numbers aren't available.
Ar¢tos
Member
So now Sony paid Remedy to keep the game install size bigger on XSX?
For fuck sake... The stupidity in this thread....
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Bernd Lauert
Banned
Imagine bumping this because of Control, a game where the Xbox version is the same as the PC version and no work has been done with regards to compression.
This is peak SonyGAF.
This is peak SonyGAF.
FranXico
Member
Kraken combined with Oodle is better than BCPack. The PS5 has built-in hardware support too.Well Microsoft uses BCPack for their compression I guess what I really want to know is which is better, BCPack or Kraken?
But Kraken + Oodle can be used in any platform.
Negotiator101
Member
Well Kraken is better than ZLIB for general compression. Oodle is for textures as is BCPack, the numbers are not there for BCPack to make a comparison though. Microsoft are actively improving BCPack as well.
cireza
Banned
It is exactly the same on Xbox Series.
muteZX
Banned
XsX has hardware decompression engines Zlib /general data/ + BCPack /textures/.
PS5 has hardware decompression engines Kraken /general data/ + Oodle /textures/.
It seem that Kraken easily beats Zlib and lets say that Oodle and BCPack are equal, but we lack the exact data.
PS5 has hardware decompression engines Kraken /general data/ + Oodle /textures/.
It seem that Kraken easily beats Zlib and lets say that Oodle and BCPack are equal, but we lack the exact data.
MilkyJoe
Member
FatKingBallman
Banned
But you have it
With BCpack + Zlib is 4.8GB ( max 6.) on Xbox
Kraken alone is ~9GB, with Oodle texture is 13-15 GB on average on PS5 (max. 22)
Zip 1.64 to 1
Kraken 1.82 to 1
Zip + Oodle Texture 2.69 to 1
Kraken + Oodle Texture 3.16 to 1
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Captain Toad
Banned
Are you seriously saying Remedy purposefully made the file size huge on the Series S|X because Sony paid them to do so?
Some people will jump through any number of mental hoops to continue believing what they want to be true.
Captain Toad
Banned
You realize the point of this old thread being bumped is to point out how wrong it ended up being. Right?
ethomaz
Banned
That is clearly made up bullshit.I read in another forum that the install size is higher on xbox because they also included the version for the old consoles. They didn't want to use smart delivery.
PS4 version is similar in size to Xbox version.
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FranXico
Member
Well, this take aged like fine milk.
ethomaz
Banned
You should compare BCPack loosy texture compression to Oodle.Well Microsoft uses BCPack for their compression I guess what I really want to know is which is better, BCPack or Kraken?
Kraken is lossless and general use.
Loosy compression has better % because you know you lose quality... lossless is the same quality without any quality loss so the % is smaller.
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Interfectum
Member
Gotta love console warriors on both sides arguing over technology they know nearly jack shit about. We have reached peak console wars this time around.
muteZX
Banned
PS5 - raw SSD speed 5.5 giga/sec x optimistic "mixed" 3.16 aggregated ratio = circa 17+ giga/sec .. lets say its ingame 9-18 giga/sec and HW decompressor has theoretical limit at 22 giga/sec.
XSX - raw SSD speed 2.4 x optimistic "mixed" 2.69 aggregated ratio = circa 6+ giga/sec .. lets its 4-6 ingame giga/sec
mixed = "data" + textures.
Something lika that, eh .. but in fact both texture compression metods /BCPack and Oodle/ can be performance-wise/features set quite similar.
graywolf323
Gold Member
not to mention Spider-Man Remastered on PS5 is a good chunk smaller than Spider-Man PS4 w/ all the dlc
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
"Look it up" - You mean something Allandor pulled out of his butt with no evidence on Beyond3D? This is how the Internet works I guess, people spread crap around and hope no one does look it up. The files size is consistent on all platforms including the PC, the only outlier is the PS5. This nonsense about the XBO and XSX versions being glued together is horseshit.
