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[Seketh]

Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

People, what the hell are you going on about?

The article could very well have been written "Xbox Series S will apply Xbox One S Enhancements" instead of "Xbox Series S Won’t Apply Xbox One X Enhancements".

It's the definition of clickbait. The "news" and the comments on this thread are an absolute joke.

 

[Knitted Knight]

Yes i think you are trolling but is true,is not a one x

I know, different hardware by default makes it so.

 

[xStoyax]

Jesus Tapdancing Christ.

People, what the hell are you going on about?

The article could very well have been written "Xbox Series S will apply Xbox One S Enhancements" instead of "Xbox Series S Won’t Apply Xbox One X Enhancements".

It's the definition of clickbait. The "news" and the comments on this thread are an absolute joke.

You're upset because the headline is accurate.

 

[Three]

Seems like the Series S is at most a slight improvement over the One X, at worst, less performant than the One X (at least the RAM bottleneck Devs are bitching about the most). CPU side is an upgrade any way it's spun. Give and take I guess.

One X (6TF) > Series S (4TF)?

The series S performs better than a one X if the software is specifically made/optimised for it. Look at gears 5 for example. I mean this was predictable because most people knew it will likely run the One S version of games rather than the One X. The one x just died so quick the support was abysmal. I still remember people claiming that the One X would become the One S of next gen and play next gen games justifying their late gen $499 purchase.

 

[itsjustJEFF]

When I saw the "unboxings" yesterday, and that 120fps gow 5, in addition to being told the SS is at least as if not more powerful than the One X with modern tech, I admit I played with the idea of getting one since it'll at least replace my One X and have all X enhancements.

But this has definitely killed it for me. Keeping the One X is better.

I have no issue with the Series S, i think it's a brilliant move by Xbox. But, I'm confused as to why the Series S doesn't get the One X "enhancements" Isn't the Series S more powerful, in nearly every possible way, than the One X? So is it not more powerful than the One X?

 

[Sign]

Who is the Series S aimed for?

This thing will be discontinued within two-ish years.

People trying to compare this to anything Nintendo are silly. The Wii was a revolution to some, got Grandma to play *Nintendo* games (controller was the TV remote they had been using for 50 years). It was something completely different, and something even Nintendo, obviously, didn't fully understand themselves given the WiiU (a lesson in why branding is important -something Microsoft has already failed at, imo). Microsoft already tried to appeal to this casual crowd and failed. So, Microsoft are not competing in that category.

The Switch is less revolutionary, but it carries the Nintendo legacy of "I'm buying this for Nintendo games (which are guaranteed to be fantastic, if not GOTY) and the smattering of third party exclusives." Microsoft is not in that category, not even on the same plane of existence, not even capable of reaching it. Sony has had years building 1st party, and they're not even really close. So, Microsoft are not capable of competing in that category.

Gamepass already exists, today, right now, and Xbox consoles are not exactly flying off the shelves even at deep discounts. So, Microsoft are not going to attract the "Fifa/Cod/Fortnite" crowd with this because they can't get them now.

So what is left? Who is left? Third console buyers that want to play their 360 games. These people will be buying a Ps5 first (or they have a PC), plays enough games to grab Nintendo's offering second, and they still have the disposable income to mess with their old 360 library they abandoned this gen. This group is not large enough to matter. Microsoft will find themselves, eventually, discontinuing this and slashing the price of the top end when feasible, imo.

 

[Knitted Knight]

The series S performs better than a one X if the software is specifically made/optimised for it. Look at gears 5 for example. I mean this was predictable because most people knew it will likely run the One S version of games rather than the One X. The one x just died so quick the support was abysmal. I still remember people claiming that the One X would become the One S of next gen and play next gen games justifying their late gen $499 purchase.

Do we even have a real example of a truly optimized game for the One X? or more like upscaled ports of base Xbox One games? Same with the PS4 Pro tbh. I doubt the games, even Sony exclusives, were truly optimized for that hardware relative to the time and optimization work that went into the base PS4.

 

[chonga]

I have no issue with the Series S, i think it's a brilliant move by Xbox. But, I'm confused as to why the Series S doesn't get the One X "enhancements" Isn't the Series S more powerful, in nearly every possible way, than the One X? So is it not more powerful than the One X?

In the DF video they said that Microsoft said it was 'roughly in the same ballpark' as the One X.

You get worse resolution in exchange for faster loading and higher frame rates.

Games will likely look like they would on a One X, albeit 1440p, but run better.

If you own a One X I personally can't see the $300 value in losing the optical drive and dropping from 4k. Series X is the way to go.

 

[Seketh]

You're upset because the headline is accurate.

No, it most definitly is not. Xbox One S was announced as a 1400p console.

Yet the headline says "Hey, the 1400p Xbox One S won't do 4K rendering enhancements like the One X, surprise".

Yes I'm upset, I absolutely hate disinformation.

 

[Agnostic2020]

No, it most definitly is not. Xbox One S was announced as a 1400p console.

Yet the headline says "Hey, the 1400p Xbox One S won't do 4K rendering enhancements like the One X, surprise".

Yes I'm upset, I absolutely hate disinformation.

The healine title is 100% accurate. Rest is ur problems . Sorry bud

 

[Seketh]

The healine title is 100% accurate. Rest is ur problems . Sorry bud

Nope, just a headline to create further confusion. I even wrote One S instead of Series S

 

[itsjustJEFF]

In the DF video they said that Microsoft said it was 'roughly in the same ballpark' as the One X.

You get worse resolution in exchange for faster loading and higher frame rates.

Games will likely look like they would on a One X, albeit 1440p, but run better.

If you own a One X I personally can't see the $300 value in losing the optical drive and dropping from 4k. Series X is the way to go.

Ahh Okay, I haven't watched that DF video yet. Thanks for the breakdown. It would be a tough sell for One X owners, especially if they cared a lot about Native 4k. If I had a One X I'd definitely forego the S and go straight to the X.

 

[Agnostic2020]

Nope, just a headline to create further confusion. I even wrote One S instead of Series S

I noticed lol

 

[THE DUCK]

I wish we could just stop. Just stop and enjoy all the fantastic games out there. We don't need prettier games out there. Just fucking look at Last of Us 2. It's just mind blowingly gorgeous, and it's on current gen. How much do some of you people need?

Isn't great games enough? Do they always have to push some abstract graphical borderline?

It's all so nonsensical to me. I love PlayStation, it gave me WipeOut, some incredible Final Fantasies and many more journeys. I love Xbox. They gave me Halo, Otogi, Lost Odyssey and many more. I love Nintendo, because come on, who doesn't. I also love PC, because real time strategy is my jam.

Enjoy this glorious hobby ffs. Stop nitpicking over bullshit that doesn't bloody matter.

This person makes a good point.

However, if it was good enough, I don't think we would be launching new systems, nobody would buy them. And I suppose in some respects, MS is agreeing with you.

However with next gen, we will get a bump in graphics fidelity, and load times being reduced will be really nice. (although it's interesting that the series S will do this as well)

 

[danielJackson]

I have no issue with the Series S, i think it's a brilliant move by Xbox. But, I'm confused as to why the Series S doesn't get the One X "enhancements" Isn't the Series S more powerful, in nearly every possible way, than the One X? So is it not more powerful than the One X?

S have less ram + it is slower + split in two speeds

8Gb is slower than X and 2Gb is like 4x slower than the 8.

CPU + SSD are much faster and gpu is about the same but more modern

 

[itsjustJEFF]

S have less ram + it is slower + split in two speeds

8Gb is slower than X and 2Gb is like 4x slower than the 8.

CPU + SSD are much faster and gpu is about the same but more modern

I didn't know there was that much difference in ram speeds and that the S had the same split as the X. I wonder how much more the S would cost if it had the same amount of Ram as the X. Or how much more of a loss Xbox would be taking on the S, if at all.

 

[truth411]

So does this mean Gears 5 will not play at 4k/60fps but the Xbox One S resolution and Framerate?

 

[truth411]

The series S performs better than a one X if the software is specifically made/optimised for it. Look at gears 5 for example. I mean this was predictable because most people knew it will likely run the One S version of games rather than the One X. The one x just died so quick the support was abysmal. I still remember people claiming that the One X would become the One S of next gen and play next gen games justifying their late gen $499 purchase.

I wonder if the bottleneck is memory bandwidth. The XSS has alot less bandwidth than the XoneX.

 

[Seketh]

I wonder if the bottleneck is memory bandwidth. The XSS has alot less bandwidth than the XoneX.

Theoretically, Microsoft could have enhanced games for the Series S in 4K, the hardware could definitely allow it in some cases. But why would they do that if the audience that buys a Series S isn't even expecting 4K gaming in the first place?

 

[diffusionx]

Who is the Series S aimed for?

One S owners who want to upgrade and don’t have a 4K TV

I know few people on this forum would even think of owning a One S but they’ve been selling them for years at this point.

 

[Seketh]

So does this mean Gears 5 will not play at 4k/60fps but the Xbox One S resolution and Framerate?

No. Games such as Gears 5, that are upgraded to next-gen (not enhanced), run on the target 1440p and up to 120fps.

On the other hand, Xbox 360 games like Gears 3 will run on the Series S like they run on the One S, no enhancement to 4K.

 

[TLZ]

I have no issue with the Series S, i think it's a brilliant move by Xbox. But, I'm confused as to why the Series S doesn't get the One X "enhancements" Isn't the Series S more powerful, in nearly every possible way, than the One X? So is it not more powerful than the One X?

Someone did the maths, I don't remember who, and it came out 4tf RDNA 2 is equivalent to 5tf One X. So that's 1tf less. Plus the lesser and slower RAM.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I have no issue with the Series S, i think it's a brilliant move by Xbox. But, I'm confused as to why the Series S doesn't get the One X "enhancements" Isn't the Series S more powerful, in nearly every possible way, than the One X? So is it not more powerful than the One X?

"Power" in this respect can not be quantified be simply how backwards compatibility works. These are games designed to take advantage of what the One X was designed for at the time. Every single game that runs at 4K on the OneX "could" run on the Series S at the same resolution and enhancement if they were built from the ground up for the current architecture (there maybe 1 or 2 exceptions based on the development team).


Its not apples to apples...well it is but there galas to granny Smith's.

 

[Hendrick's]

So it will apply Series S enhancements instead? Make sense.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

I don't care what you say, the messaging is starting to get confusing on what they have and what each one can do.

No it's not, the messaging is fundamentally clear. What's happening is a bunch of IDIOTS are assuming things, setting up expectations they've made based upon literally nothing, and when something about this system doesn't align with those preconceived delusions they freak the fuck out...

Someone did the maths, I don't remember who, and it came out 4tf RDNA 2 is equivalent to 5tf One X. So that's 1tf less. Plus the lesser and slower RAM.

They did poor man's math with the previous generation architecture and its efficiency... Basically they did something dumb..

4 x 1.25x =5

We don't know what the efficieny uplift is for RDNA 2, but it's assuredly going to be better than RDNA 1 so that 1.25x goes right out the fucking window.

 

[Fake]

Cheap console does cheap things for cheap people.

I hope the people that buy this console understand what they are getting.

IGN said is more powerful than PS5.

 

[Allandor]

Well, expected this. X enhanced patches are made for a different arch and mor ram and does not know the SSD. It just can't work without new patches which won't come for most games.

But good that there are other enhancements and I hope for enhanced xb360 titles, because these are all on Microsofts side.

BTW, to those that are mad about that, PS5 has only solimple bc. And after all the fuzz about bc, why should those die hard fan boys now want BC?

And like always, don't expect premium features from a budget console.

 

[sigrad]

I don't know shit about how/what powers these things. But, what I've been hearing this whole year that T-Flops aren't the end all be all. People around the youtubes and gaming sites say the new tech they have in these consoles is far superior to last gen. Even the X1X. Hell, the PS4 Pro was doing 4K checkerboard with 4.2 tflops years ago. No reason the Series S couldn't do 4K checkerboard. The Series S has 4 tflops.

And the S is directed at casuals, people who don't have 4K TVs, and people who don't care about resolution.

 

[Moonjt9]

Uhhh this makes perfect sense. Not sure why anyone would say this is a problem.

It’s a problem because a “next gen” system isn’t as good as the previous gen. This is uncharted territory in video games, and further shows just how much Xbox is being a damn anchor on the next gen.

 

[Hendrick's]

It’s a problem because a “next gen” system isn’t as good as the previous gen. This is uncharted territory in video games, and further shows just how much Xbox is being a damn anchor on the next gen.

That's not at all what this is saying.

 

[Elginer]

Until Fable comes out and it better be good I won’t upgrade my One X. Thing is still a beast as a media machine and for games.

 

[@gkTH]

As a Sony fan, revealing Series S is making Sony better position for the PS5.

 

[Zerotex]

im confuse... where xbox one x stands right now? they will release new games for it? will new games running better on X than S!?

 

[Slings and Arrows]

I really don’t think the target audience cares TBH. This is a casual fifa, COD, fortnite gamepass machine.

They do care.

Casual gamers are graphics whores. They just don't know or care how they get the graphics, but they want them.

Johnny who has an XSS will be laughed at by his friends who have an XSX

OT: I don't understand why it can't play 4k current gen games? 4k next gen games I understand but what's the bottle neck stopping it from matching the X (which is held back by a shitty cpu)

 

[Redlight]

It seems to me that the Series S removes the enhancements that were applied to One X games and adds it's own set.

Oh no.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

I don't know shit about how/what powers these things. But, what I've been hearing this whole year that T-Flops aren't the end all be all. People around the youtubes and gaming sites say the new tech they have in these consoles is far superior to last gen. Even the X1X. Hell, the PS4 Pro was doing 4K checkerboard with 4.2 tflops years ago. No reason the Series S couldn't do 4K checkerboard. The Series S has 4 tflops.

And the S is directed at casuals, people who don't have 4K TVs, and people who don't care about resolution.

You are right.

im confuse... where xbox one x stands right now? they will release new games for it? will new games running better on X than S!?

All the cross gen and Gamepass stuff will run on every version of the Xbox One S/X and Xbox Series S/X until such time that Microsoft effectively kills last gen. Sometime in late 2021 early 2022 by all accounts so far. But even then those last gen systems will get games( I think.)

OT: I don't understand why it can't play 4k current gen games? 4k next gen games I understand but what's the bottle neck stopping it from matching the X (which is held back by a shitty cpu)

"The problem is choice."


The bottleneck is in the raw computing power or lack thereof of the Series S.

The Series X has the raw horsepower to to basically bully its way through the games that were patched for Xbox One X.


The Series S is not designed to bully that data, it would have to negotiate and reason with it but it lacks the required RAM that the One X has ( dont get hung up on that) to come to an agreement on how to display the game. RDR2 could run better on the Series S than on the One X but it would require the patches to be reworked and they would need time and effort and money that could be invested better on Next Gen.

A ground up version of Say Dirt5 or Watch Dogs 3 could run on the Series S at 4k checkerboard 30fps but why when there is Series X at 4K60 or better.


The is no hardware issue that would stop the Series S to run any One X game at 4K Res it is simply a matter of choice.

 

[Slings and Arrows]

You are right.





All the cross gen and Gamepass stuff will run on every version of the Xbox One S/X and Xbox Series S/X until such time that Microsoft effectively kills last gen. Sometime in late 2021 early 2022 by all accounts so far. But even then those last gen systems will get games( I think.)





"The problem is choice."


The bottleneck is in the raw computing power or lack thereof of the Series S.

The Series X has the raw horsepower to to basically bully its way through the games that were patched for Xbox One X.


The Series S is not designed to bully that data, it would have to negotiate and reason with it but it lacks the required RAM that the One X has ( dont get hung up on that) to come to an agreement on how to display the game. RDR2 could run better on the Series S than on the One X but it would require the patches to be reworked and they would need time and effort and money that could be invested better on Next Gen.

A ground up version of Say Dirt5 or Watch Dogs 3 could run on the Series S at 4k checkerboard 30fps but why when there is Series X at 4K60 or better.


The is no hardware issue that would stop the Series S to run any One X game at 4K Res it is simply a matter of choice.

Wouldn't it have been more cost effective to slap a new cpu in the X and launch that as the next gen console alongside XSX?

The RRP would have been lower.

 

[semicool]

Article and MS has stated that XSS will have its own profiled enhancements. Neogaf reading comprehension failure

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Wouldn't it have been more cost effective to slap a new cpu in the X and launch that as the next gen console alongside XSX?

The RRP would have been lower.

They (MS) probably set $299 as the retail price and then decided to put the best specs in based on that. They are still losing real money per console, although I don't know just how much.

 

[Trimesh]

Why would anyone think something called the "Xbox Series S" would implement "Xbox Series X enhancements" anyway? The name seems to be a hint...

 

[Marlenus]

It's pretty much what next gen games would require. Remember, Flight Sim doesn't even have anything going on besides textures and plane physics. It's unreasonable to think that a 5500XT equivalent GPU will get anything above 30fps on next gen games.

It has huge draw distances and it has pretty good volumetric clouds.

The 5500XT gets 46 fps in 1080p medium and the 2080Ti is only 50% faster due to CPU limits. The 5500XT can also manage to hit 33 fps at 1440p medium.

This is in the sydney airport which was the 2nd hardest on framerates behind New York.

It is another example of a 3x more powerful GPU hitting the same frame rates at 4k as the lower power GPU does at 1080p. The 1650S gets 49 fps at 1080p medium and the 2080S gets 44 fps at 4k medium. Tune the settings for 30fps and the S will do at 1080p what the X does at 4k.

 

[skneogaf]

Good as I would not want 4k assets on a 1080p/1440p machine.

The games that have unlocked frame rate and resolution scaling will automatically be better anyway just like halo 5 was without the xbox one x patch.

 

[sinnergy]

It’s a new S , so that’s about right , it’s a budget model.

The Series X has the X naming .

 

[Clover904]

"There is a product for that, it's called the Xbox Series X".

Lol! Too funny

 

[SlimySnake]

Someone did the maths, I don't remember who, and it came out 4tf RDNA 2 is equivalent to 5tf One X. So that's 1tf less. Plus the lesser and slower RAM.

it was me. the source is MS themselves. at the hotchips conference they said the CUs are 25% more powerful than last gen. which is basically the same gains AMD promised when they revealed rdna 1.0 last year.

4.0 * 1.25 = 5.0 polaris tflops. 18% more powerful than the Pro, but the x1x is still 20% more powerful.

this GPU's rasterization performance is equivalent to a 570, not a 6 tflops 580 that was in the x1x.

 

[Marlenus]

I have no issue with the Series S, i think it's a brilliant move by Xbox. But, I'm confused as to why the Series S doesn't get the One X "enhancements" Isn't the Series S more powerful, in nearly every possible way, than the One X? So is it not more powerful than the One X?

My guess, and it is a guess, is that it is due to Ram allocation. One X allowed more ram allocation and it exceeds the S framebuffer. When you do this your minimum frame rates tank (compare 4GB vs 8GB cards). Games could be reworked to handle the smaller buffer and MS have said they are doing this for 1st party games.

The other thing is if devs are directly handling memory allocation and they point to a memory location that does not exist then it would likely crash.

 

[Marlenus]

it was me. the source is MS themselves. at the hotchips conference they said the CUs are 25% more powerful than last gen. which is basically the same gains AMD promised when they revealed rdna 1.0 last year.

4.0 * 1.25 = 5.0 polaris tflops. 18% more powerful than the Pro, but the x1x is still 20% more powerful.

this GPU's rasterization performance is equivalent to a 570, not a 6 tflops 580 that was in the x1x.

Your maths suck.

5.2 Tflop 8GB 5500XT ~= 7.1 Tflop RX 590.

9.1 Tflop 5700XT ~= 13.8 Tflop Radeon VII (although this gap does grow at 1440p and 4k)

You really expect RDNA2 to go backwards? Really?

 

[MrFunSocks]

Missed opportunity. I plan to get a ps5, but the $299 looked nice as third machine, to play some old x360 games (my main console that generation) Now, why would I want that machine?

It still plays 360 games....

It took me a few reads thanks to ms horrendous naming scheme but it finally clicked. So the "next gen" console cant do last gen enhancements but wont hold back next gen in any way huh?

What type of logic is that? Lol

The PS5 can’t play PS3 games but won’t hold back next gen in any way huh?

 

[Tulipanzo]

I predicted this way back when we first got specs and got told by a bunch of fanboys I was wrong.

Good that their next-gen system is actually worse than their last-gen one.

 

[Mmnow]

Can I just take a second to get the narratives straight?

It's okay if the PS5 doesn't output at native 4k, because native 4k is a waste.

Backwards compatibility is nice and all, but it's not a big feature.

It's outrageous that a machine designed almost exclusively for 1080p screens doesn't output at native 4k on backwards compatible games.

Now granted, One X patches sometimes do more than just up the resolution, and that's a conversation worth having, but the amount of anger over this is ridiculous.

The place this console sits on the market is really obvious. It's for people who just want to play games with zero thought for framerates and resolution. It's for people who haven't bothered with 4k even though it's cheap and accessible now. It's for kids and casuals who just want to play what they always play on a new box.

If you're not in that list, and you shouldn't be if you're on these forums, you shouldn't get a Series S. The Series X was designed for you, and it's a pretty sweet bit of kit.