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Xbox Series S games size to be 30% smaller than Xbox Series X games
- Thread starter Rolla
- Start date
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yes, but my main point was that would also make the game look worse in comparison to the Series X version. It's not like it'll look the same, just at a lower resolution. Many people (when Lockhart rumors first started) didn't think that the assets would be of lesser quality also.
Andodalf
Banned
PS5 has a ~ 20% Smaller SSD but the exact same game sizes. So the XSS and PS5 Should be in about the same boat.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
If you display 4k textures at 1440p resolution it looks the same as 1440p textures at 1440p resolution.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You sure? So why did Epic talk about implementing 8K textures in UE5?
I've timestamped the part of the demo when they said they are using 8K textures for a 1440p resolution demo.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
Because their engine will support up to 8k games for pc. If you have 200 pixels and your texture is 400 pixels, you can only see 200 pixels of the 400 pixel texture. Wow that's a mouthful
Edit: I see where I misread you last post. 8k textures for 1440p. I don't know. My point still stands on pixel density. Maybe it has something to do with how they stream their assets. That is a guess
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mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
But right there in that demo, the PS5 demo was displaying their 8K textures. This wasn't running on a PC.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
Do you see my edit? You quoted it.
Imtjnotu
Member
Does it support external ssd?
The math checks out. Not accounting for OS the PS5 could fit 8 100GB games and the XSS would hold about 7 of those games at 70GBs each.
GHG
Gold Member
This is not true.
This is even less true.
More fine detail gets resolved at high quality texture resolutions. Texture resolution does not need to correlate with the screen resolution.
Provided they have the vram to do so plenty of people on PC run 4k textures at lower resolutions than 4k because it improves the clarity of the overall image.
The image below isn't even 4k but yet you can still see the difference between them on a reasonably sized screen.
Same again (total image size is 4k but the two individual screenshots are not):
And again (look at the detail on the gun)
With 2k textures they will be more blurry and have less fine detail resolved compared to 4k textures, the screen size doesn't really matter unless you are stepping down to something ridiculous like 720p.
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MarkMe2525
Gold Member
To store games, the console then dumps game from hdd to ssd to play.
Aidah
Member
I'd guess it's 8K because it needs to still look good even when you get really close (i.e. zoom in), and from a distance it looks cleaner. The only reason someone wouldn't use better textures on Series S is to save memory and deal with the limited bandwidth, not because it wouldn't make a difference.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
I'm confused. Your example states both screenshots made in 4k, then you are comparing a 2k texture vs 4k texture. That's not the same thing we are talking about. Of course the 2k texture looks worse. It has half the detail info of the rendered screen(4k). I'm open-minded here but the evidence you gave me is not compelling nor applicable.This is not true.
This is even less true.
More fine detail gets resolved at high quality texture resolutions. Texture resolution does not need to correlate with the screen resolution.
Provided they have the vram to do so plenty of people on PC run 4k textures at lower resolutions than 4k because it improves the clarity of the overall image.
The image below isn't even 4k but yet you can still see the difference between them on a reasonably sized screen.
Same again (total image size is 4k but the two individual screenshots are not):
With 2k textures they will be more blurry and have less fine detail resolved compared to 4k textures, the screen size doesn't really matter unless you are stepping down to something ridiculous like 720p.
Edit: I'm looking some more. My eyes may not be as good as yours but besides the 300% zoom window. The 2k and 4k look the same.
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GHG
Gold Member
Let me make it simple for you.
How many pixels are in the individual images (not the total size of the two images put together) above?
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
Now that's a scenario I can get behind. This makes sense
.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
GHG
Gold Member
It's an acquired taste. But once you see it it's difficult to go back, even from normal sitting distances.
The "cure" is to never higher resolution textures in the first place, that way you don't know what you're missing.
The reality is that I don't think most people who buy the Series S will care about this stuff.
We don't know the prices yet but for old games your current drive is plug and play.
pyrocro
Member
your main point is valid only if the developer is limited in the resources available to them.
Mega Textures seeks to address the issue at run time but you can reduce textures beforehand for a suited resolution
It takes foresight, planning, and supporting tools, these things are not trivial but you can adjust your asset to suit the target resolution.
weather you use Unreal's Nanite, some form of mega textures or just match texture texel to have the same pixel ration as it would at 4k,
its a problem developers have already addressed with multiple solutions for different scenarios.
After all, a lot of switch games look great(some times better) in their undocked mode at 720p(smaller screen), with fewer resources and reduced "presentation assets".
pixel density matters for game presentation and it always been the case that developers target the expected resolution.
if a developer is careful, has the time and resources, the only downgrade you will notice is the lower resolution.
pyrocro
Member
Hey can you link to the article? ThanksThis is not true.
This is even less true.
More fine detail gets resolved at high quality texture resolutions. Texture resolution does not need to correlate with the screen resolution.
Provided they have the vram to do so plenty of people on PC run 4k textures at lower resolutions than 4k because it improves the clarity of the overall image.
The image below isn't even 4k but yet you can still see the difference between them on a reasonably sized screen.
Same again (total image size is 4k but the two individual screenshots are not):
And again (look at the detail on the gun)
With 2k textures they will be more blurry and have less fine detail resolved compared to 4k textures, the screen size doesn't really matter unless you are stepping down to something ridiculous like 720p.
Imtjnotu
Member
i dont see an issue here then. id rather just store everything on an external ssd and move it over if space is an issue
GHG
Gold Member
There is no article since those screens come from various sources:
The Ultra High Definition Project
This mod is a collection of mods wich make the textures of the Witcher 3 not even just better, also tries to make every texture 4K resolution, more realistic and adds some exclusive custom textures.
www.nexusmods.com
High Resolution Texture Pack 2K and 4K - Valius
New high resolution textures in 2K and 4K.
www.nexusmods.com
If you want to see it for yourself and have a decent PC then find a game with a 4k texture pack and load it up at 1080/1440p. Then go back to the lower resolution textures and look at how there is less clarity and detail in the overall image.
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BabyYoda
Banned
That's great, I wish they did that on the PC, I'm sick of downloading content I never use...
nillapuddin
Member
yall are on to something very interesting, essentially take the SSD at face value and for sake of argument ignore you will lose tons of space due to the OS,
this is just for example purposes
1000 GB
10 games 100 GB
825 GB
8 games 100 GB
512 GB
7 games 70 GB
Play'sGhost
Neo Member
Will the games be cheaper?
Yep I was thinking the same thing. The difference in amount of games is larger between the PS5 and the XSX (2 games) vs the difference between PS5 and XSS (1 game).
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killatopak
Gold Member
I’m kinda hoping the SSD tech will limit game sizes just a bit because there won’t be multiple object and textures files due to the HDD limitations.
Which would mean 500gb will kinda suffice. But then again nobody know how much bigger next gen games will be cause everything seems to be more about detail and amount of objects in a single frame.
Which would mean 500gb will kinda suffice. But then again nobody know how much bigger next gen games will be cause everything seems to be more about detail and amount of objects in a single frame.
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How would this work on PC? You have a whole range of resolutions and specs there too. You do use it too. It depends how close you get to your textures. It would only look the same at a given distance.
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Armorian
Banned
Yes, you will see better quality textures even on "low" resolutions like 1080p. Looks like another "vaseline filter" generation for low end Xbox owners.
Exactly, same for shadow resolution. You can see difference between 2k, 4k and 8k shadows in PC version of FFXIII.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is about texel density or call it how many cm2 of resolution (unique detail) you have based on your texture size and the world you have to cover... it is not just about a single textured quad filling up the screen (take that single quad and make it bigger and now move a bit farther away... now tilt it at a nice steep angle, etc...).
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Stilton Disco
Member
So devs do have to make 2 different versions of the game and they will have lower quality assets on the XSS, not just lower resolution.
But just because that's two lies we've caught MS's PR and the Xbox defenders telling about the XSS, we should still 100% believe them when they say the XSS won't hold back the XSX.
But just because that's two lies we've caught MS's PR and the Xbox defenders telling about the XSS, we should still 100% believe them when they say the XSS won't hold back the XSX.
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Balducci30
Member
There is no article since those screens come from various sources:
The Ultra High Definition Project
This mod is a collection of mods wich make the textures of the Witcher 3 not even just better, also tries to make every texture 4K resolution, more realistic and adds some exclusive custom textures.
High Resolution Texture Pack 2K and 4K - Valius
New high resolution textures in 2K and 4K.
If you want to see it for yourself and have a decent PC then find a game with a 4k texture pack and load it up at 1080/1440p. Then go back to the lower resolution textures and look at how there is less clarity and detail in the overall image.
Man I honestly can’t tell the difference. Series S it is I guess for me then
HoodWinked
Member
They already do this it's called the texture quality setting on practically every pc game
ZywyPL
Banned
But Gaf told me Smart Delivery is just a cross-gen buy? 
Well, that was totally expected and know, they've been doing this on 1S and 1X already, 4K textures is what eats up the most space/VRAM in modern games, and since XSS won't be needing those, big space savings can be made.
Still MUCH better than nothing, for example instead of 100GB games you'll have 70GB titles, so instead of just 4 titles you'll be able to have 6 installed, that's 50% more games on your drive, for 60GB games that would be 10 games instead of 6-7, and so on, so with just 512GB drive you will be able to squeeze a couple of extra titles on it.
Well, that was totally expected and know, they've been doing this on 1S and 1X already, 4K textures is what eats up the most space/VRAM in modern games, and since XSS won't be needing those, big space savings can be made.Still MUCH better than nothing, for example instead of 100GB games you'll have 70GB titles, so instead of just 4 titles you'll be able to have 6 installed, that's 50% more games on your drive, for 60GB games that would be 10 games instead of 6-7, and so on, so with just 512GB drive you will be able to squeeze a couple of extra titles on it.
-Arcadia-
Banned
I have my doubts that this thing is ever hitting 1440p outside of cross-gen and less demanding games.
Stilton Disco
Member
That's irrelevant.
PC games are not console games. The entire reason consoles punch above their weight is because, unlike PC's, they cam focus on one set of specs and optimise entirely around those limitations, rather than having to run on as many different combinations of specs as possible.
The fact their are clearly two different versions of these games on the XSS and XSX means there either has to be twice the amount of optimisation being done, or half the amount of time and effort put into it.
If they're just treating them like PC games then they're going to be no better than a PC with the same specs, which negates one of the fundamental strengths of a console entirely.
-Arcadia-
Banned
I also have doubts that, not zoomed in (this is crucial), most people will notice a slight enough (I suppose this is key) reduction in texture quality. Take that 2K/4K door texture post above. Now imagine it at regular distance in a lower resolution game.
Then imagine playing a third person game like Rise of the Tomb Raider. When you have such a drastic cut in clarity, do the textures need to be so perfect? An FPS might be different, but you could still shoot for max quality on the gun and arm, and reduce everything else.
Again, this is especially if it’s in 1080p, which all signs point to for most games, despite MS’ PR.
Then imagine playing a third person game like Rise of the Tomb Raider. When you have such a drastic cut in clarity, do the textures need to be so perfect? An FPS might be different, but you could still shoot for max quality on the gun and arm, and reduce everything else.
Again, this is especially if it’s in 1080p, which all signs point to for most games, despite MS’ PR.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
That was weird. I didn't see the edit until after I replied to you lol.
I agree. I think the average next-gen game will be somewhere between 900p and 1080p.
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M1chl
Currently Gif and Meme Champion
What is the size of of 2k/4k textures, is this some PR name or are they for example 2kx2k px?This is not true.
This is even less true.
More fine detail gets resolved at high quality texture resolutions. Texture resolution does not need to correlate with the screen resolution.
Provided they have the vram to do so plenty of people on PC run 4k textures at lower resolutions than 4k because it improves the clarity of the overall image.
The image below isn't even 4k but yet you can still see the difference between them on a reasonably sized screen.
Same again (total image size is 4k but the two individual screenshots are not):
And again (look at the detail on the gun)
With 2k textures they will be more blurry and have less fine detail resolved compared to 4k textures, the screen size doesn't really matter unless you are stepping down to something ridiculous like 720p.
DaGwaphics
Member
Games on Xbox are almost universally released on PC as well. Dual texture packs would already be thing on that platform, just one game + a 4k/8k texture package, like 90% of what is released today.
JimboJones
Member
Sounds like it's gonna be all over the show, some games just shipping with the assets still in the game file bloating sizes some games with them taken out.
Hopefully it's more the latter.
MarkMe2525
Gold Member
All good, I was wrong anyhow.