DarkMage619
$MSFT
The system is doing what is was designed to do. She probably wouldn't have got an XSX but the XSS was perfect for her needs. This was a good way to broaden the Xbox's appeal.
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The system is doing what is was designed to do. She probably wouldn't have got an XSX but the XSS was perfect for her needs. This was a good way to broaden the Xbox's appeal.
Schmick
Member
I wish every gamer was like her. No bias.
PropellerEar
Member
just an old kiwi enjoying her Series SSponsored content wibes
Kenpachii
Member
I don't see why people have issue's with it.
300 bucks, and all next gen games are playable on it. Its small on top of it, and gamepass is probably the best solution out there for everybody that aren't die hard console gamers.
Exactly what a next gen console should have been. Instead of 500+ euro consoles with 80+ euro games and paid online.
300 bucks, and all next gen games are playable on it. Its small on top of it, and gamepass is probably the best solution out there for everybody that aren't die hard console gamers.
Exactly what a next gen console should have been. Instead of 500+ euro consoles with 80+ euro games and paid online.
Schmick
Member
Because it will hold games back from their full potential (Gaf has told me).
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DarkMage619
$MSFT
GAF is full of software developers and hardware engineers.
Schmick
Member
Interesting to see how FSR is impacting future games.
JLB
Banned
Dust-by-Monday
Member
BS
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
She said in the video that her viewers paid for it (patreon or something).Sponsored content wibes
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vaibhavpisal
Member
So?
She could have brought anything she wanted.
She chose it consciously. Points she brought in its favour are exactly the reason I bought it as well.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
Just another guy who seems to be impressed with MS latest offering. Amazing how many people MS is allegedly paying off.
Tomeru
Member
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
I wasn't criticizing her tho.
I was just pointing out that her viewers were the sponsors of the video and not Microsoft. She wasn't paid by MS or a retailer to put in a good word for them.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
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In Cold Blood
Banned
Not looking to bump and old thread, but I dont have thread abilities at the moment.
As an Xbox user I was shaking my head a bit wondering why MS didn't just add an extra gig or two of RAM and increase the clock of the GPU to get maybe 5 or more Tflops. Just that little bit extra would have made the S so much more capable. I mean, why have the CPU clock the same as the PS5 but skimp so much on the other two?
I was talking to someone who would know and they were saying that it actually will all come into play as the generation evolves.
MS believe Sampler Feedback Streaming will more than cover the RAM shortfalls, and when the other DX12 Ultimate abilities such as Mesh Shading, VRS 2.0 etc are being utilised the S will actually keep up quite well as the generation ages. The reason the CPU didn't get cut back at all is because there was nothing MS has that can back up the CPU. Tricks and software innovations can actually help out RAM and GPU.
I am interested to watch how the S goes in the future. I won't get one myself as I have an X and if I wanted another console in another room I would just get another X or a PS5.
As an Xbox user I was shaking my head a bit wondering why MS didn't just add an extra gig or two of RAM and increase the clock of the GPU to get maybe 5 or more Tflops. Just that little bit extra would have made the S so much more capable. I mean, why have the CPU clock the same as the PS5 but skimp so much on the other two?
I was talking to someone who would know and they were saying that it actually will all come into play as the generation evolves.
MS believe Sampler Feedback Streaming will more than cover the RAM shortfalls, and when the other DX12 Ultimate abilities such as Mesh Shading, VRS 2.0 etc are being utilised the S will actually keep up quite well as the generation ages. The reason the CPU didn't get cut back at all is because there was nothing MS has that can back up the CPU. Tricks and software innovations can actually help out RAM and GPU.
I am interested to watch how the S goes in the future. I won't get one myself as I have an X and if I wanted another console in another room I would just get another X or a PS5.
modiz
Member
At least Tom Warren didn't. He only made a statement about the CPU.
01011001
Banned
yeah I really think the console currently suffers from the fact that all the new tech isn't being utilized yet
DarkMage619
$MSFT
MS didn't increase the power of the system beyond what it is because they wanted to keep the price down to broaden their audience. The point of the system is to appeal to casual gamers and kids. Not everyone needs or wants a high end device. It's just like Nvidia making more than just RTX 3090 video card. It's a good thing they made the XSS too because they've been able to keep products stocked on shelves which is helping them be far more competitive this generation. More competition is good for gamers.
Exactly. When games are released that run better on last generation hardware it's clear the system isn't really being taken advantage of. There isn't any other excuse.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Haven't played a game that doesn't run well.
"Issues" mostly overblown by DF and other outlets.
When it suffers, it suffers with Series X. Like Metro Exodus RT edition or Matrix Awaken demo. Their destiny are tied together. Both systems suffer together by next gen features.
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In Cold Blood
Banned
I understand the point that MS wanted to make with the S, and I think it has been a good move when I thought it wouldn't take off. Happy to be wrong.
However they could have had the same price point even with giving a little extra.
The GPU is only small and runs at a very average speed for RDNA 2 cards. They could have increased it to give around 5 tflops without a huge decrease in yields or big increase in heat. On top of that they could have had some other memory set up, with maybe some GDDR5 RAM for the OS which freed up more RAM for games.
The PS5 Digital is $100 more expensive than the S. For that extra $100 you get.
1. A bigger and faster SSD.
2. 6 more tflops of power.
3. More plastic, more copper in heat sink.
5. 6 more gig of RAM.
Due to the speed and heat from the PS5 APU, the PS5 Digital would have a far worse yield than what the S has.
I think it'd fair to think MS could have thrown in a couple of gig extra and increased the clock on the GPU and still kept the same price point, considering what Sony is selling their all digital system for.
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Always like to caveat the number of ps5 digital sku's seem to be relatively small. That might because the margin on it is not great so they don't make many of those.
It's all about hitting a price point and margin that means that selling millions of those doesn't impact the bottom line in terms of profitability .
Ultimately the target audience in MS's theory doesn't care about that additional performance.
Torrent of Pork
Banned
Now that it's relatively easy to get an S at retail price I know what birthday and Christmas presents are going to be for close friends and family for the next few years.
Rykan
Member
Why don't you just put him up for adoption while you're at it, you monster!?
SkylineRKR
Member
Well at some points, the XSS does beat PS5. Ofcourse, a lot of it is OS related, but it boots up faster, has VRR, QR and ofcourse Atmos/Vision. I have both PS5 and XSS, but the XSS experience feels pretty fucking good whenever I boot it up.
I agree with your points on the specs. I wish they’d been able to push and scrape to get it to 5TF or slightly more…and still kept RAM parity with the One X. Maybe take more losses but sell faster and make up with more Gamepass revenue.
That said, I don’t think the comparison with the PS5 digital is apt since the price difference will only grow with time. We’ll have $250 series s deals by November. I doubt we’ll have $350 PS5 digital consoles.
Joined less than a month ago and already spreading fibs.
scarlet0pimp
Member
I love the S, I do wish that there was some way it could play the 1x version of games though rather than the x1 even if they were locked at 1080p but with the extra settings.
DarkMage619
$MSFT
I've noticed a few games where the XSX version of game didn't seem affected at all despite using the same development environment. Raytracing is commonly dropped from the XSS version of a game despite its ability to use the feature. It's good though because for the longest time there were disingenuous arguments made that the XSS would hold back the generation. It's clear now that it holds back console gaming like the RTX 3060 holds back PC gaming as in not at all.
It would have been nice to have better specs but I think they did a great job for the target audience and it will always be the cheapest entry into current gen games.
100% agree with you on the PS5 DE. Not only is it the hardest device to find because Sony barely manufactures it but you are also forced to buy the digital library from Sony exclusively further increasing costs. It is not a better value than the XSS despite it having better specs.
nominedomine
Banned
The most compromised console I can think off, MS cut every possible corner to get it to that price point. It has already failed to live up to MS claims of "Series X games but at a lower resolution" countless times (while we are still in the cross gen period).
I think MS would be doing just as well with only the Series X console if it wasn't for the shortages (they would probably end up selling more because the Series S is easier to produce and requires less silicon but at the cost of having to drag the Series S along for the next 8 years and while leaving the door open for a Series S owner to upgrade to a PS5 later on).
But then again, Sony was able to produce more PS5s even though it probably is about as hard to make as a Series X, so I'm not sure I can even give the Series S that much merit.
I think MS would be doing just as well with only the Series X console if it wasn't for the shortages (they would probably end up selling more because the Series S is easier to produce and requires less silicon but at the cost of having to drag the Series S along for the next 8 years and while leaving the door open for a Series S owner to upgrade to a PS5 later on).
But then again, Sony was able to produce more PS5s even though it probably is about as hard to make as a Series X, so I'm not sure I can even give the Series S that much merit.
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vito_don_corleone_
Banned
BigbyTheSheriff
Member
I don't get the PS5 Digital argument. Like, yeah it's only 100$ more but that's completely irrelevant if you are into Xbox ecosystem and exclusives.
Imagine telling someone who is interested in Fable, Starfield, Gears, Avowed etc they should just buy PS5 Digital instead. I've seen countless posts like that.
Imagine telling someone who is interested in Fable, Starfield, Gears, Avowed etc they should just buy PS5 Digital instead. I've seen countless posts like that.
SkylineRKR
Member
DE isn't good value at all. I have it because I barely buy new games these days and don't care about discs, but when I look a game up, like KH3, its back to 69 euros lol. PS5 DE is only recommended if you don't mind waiting for sales, and for the odd new release you want day one which is often the same price as retail. But rather, its not recommended at all, for 100 bucks more the disc version can do all this too and you can grab some neat deals on physical games and sell them when done. I keep my DE, since I buy like a handful games a year anyway and I don't like swapping out discs. But I would say others to just get the disc SKU.
XSS is wholly different. And yes GPU is a big factor. A lot of stuff thats priced on PSS, is or was on GPU. Like the earlier mentioned KH, but also Yakuza etc. And a factor is legacy support. There is no way to play the likes of Dead Space on PS5.
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vito_don_corleone_
Banned
People are interested in Gears/Avowed?
nominedomine
Banned
Anyone that ever brought up that possibility should be shamed, the Series S never had any chance at beating the PS5 at anything. The series S struggles to beat the lastgen midgen consoles in some games and isn't even able to run last gen games in the same quality as the One X.
Sure if the person doesn't care at all about any of this the Series S saves the person some money but the console itself isn't impressive at all. It's way behind on everything except the CPU.
PS5 DE is like asking for Sony to abuse you (same for any digital only console if you intend to ever buy games), once you are locked to their online store there isn't that much incentive for them to be aggressive with game prices.
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It lives up to that, more often than not.
But more importantly, reconstruction techniques are improving by leaps and bounds, and AMD’s DLSS like tech will work on it to help scale up from even lower resolutions.
It will last the gen, for sure.
There’s a place for lower powered hardware. The success of the RTX3080 doesn’t mean there isn’t a place for RTx3050Ti GPUs.
They were able to produce more. Now they’re battling with stock challenges. Also bear in mind that Microsoft had to divert a decent amount of stock to set up xbox xCloud blades.
SkylineRKR
Member
This is not entirely accurate. Where the One X usually cripples due to long load times and low frame rates, the XSS manages to deliver a smooth experience without load times. For example, try Psychonauts 2 or RE Village on both systems. And even FH5, which takes like 2 seconds to switch cars in, i'd take it over the One X version any day of the week. Doom Eternal 120hz, Prey and Dead Space 2 60fps... they're really good.
And its not like the One X is cheaper than the XSS. In fact, I think only the base PS4 is cheaper.
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nominedomine
Banned
Come on the Series S came out in 2021 why is it even struggling to outright beat last gen consoles? All that because MS couldn't spend an extra $100 for a Series X Digital Edition?
Series S is terrible value for pretty much anyone, if someone is into Xbox just pay the extra $200 and enjoy a much better experience for years and year to come.
Same goes for the PS5 DE, terrible value as well(just not as compromised), the odds are most people will make the $100 back over the life of the console.
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Riky
$MSFT
I think you have to have differentiation to make the two console sales pitch work, the more you bump the specs on Series S the more you increase the price and the difference between the machines narrows, at a certain point why would you buy a Series X?
What people barely ever mention is power draw, the Series S seems to be in the 80w range for most games, way less than half of the bigger consoles which normally are around 200w. To pack all the tech in a machine so small, light, quiet and power efficient is quite an achievement, the fact it's only £249 is amazing. It normally only hasn't hit 1440p when the Series X hasn't hit 4k, so that metric doesn't tell the whole story.
I agree though that we haven't seen the full capabilities as we're still seeing last gen engines without using all the performance saving features the machine has, first party has to lead the way here, when the next gen exclusives arrive will be the real test and VRS, SFS and Mesh Shaders will come into play.
Personally it's a bedroom console, I can continue my game on a smaller 1080p set and you soon forget about any difference when your wrapped up in your game, I have tried it on my 4k screen and it's fine. I've just managed to get another one new for £170 for my kids bedroom, they couldn't care less about graphical cutbacks they just want to play.
Arioco
Member
Please, cut the crap, they were talking about better frame rate than PS5 because of its supposedly better CPU, not VRR or Dolby Vision. Those features doesn't make a console more powerful. The fact that they deleted some of those tweets speaks for itself, they are aware their statements weren't very accurate.
Truth is, despite Ricky's predictions, Series S is far behind PS5 and Series X. Most games don't even offer the same graphic modes as the premium consoles, and in many cases they lack the ray tracing features. MS should've launched a Series X Digital Edition for 399 instead. Series X is only 100 bucks cheaper than a PS5 DE but it offers significantly less value as a next gen console. Even Id Software engineers have explained on Twitter why Series S is a big mistake that can hold back the other consoles for the rest of the gen, especially Series X. They weren't happy about Series S at all, and they explained the reasons. And I can understand it: launching a next gen console with a weaker GPU and less memory bandwidth than systems from the previous generation can never be a good idea.
Riky
$MSFT
I have a One X next to my Series S, it rarely gets switched on anymore, loading times and framerates are a world apart, you never want to go back.
SkylineRKR
Member
I thought this part was about One X vs Series S, but okay.
I would agree if Series X would've been as readily available since launch. Still, 200 is quite a bit of cash for lots of households though. As I stated, only the base PS4 is cheaper. This makes the XSS a reasonably good purchase, provided you know its digital only. I do realize that on forum, we are focused on DF, resolutions, framerates, RT etc. But most of the audience don't give much of a shit.
I admit that I plan to buy an XSX, because you are correct that XSX is the same as XSS but with more power, discs and bigger HDD. There is no downside to XSX to XSS except for price and form factor. Once I can just get one (right now there are SKUs being offered with FIFA which I don't want and set me back 600, which is twice the price of XSS btw), I will likely buy an XSX. But I do like the XSS and had lots of fun with it since launch, I played FH5 and Halo for weeks and didn't feel the urge to grab an XSX at all costs. Its just that the load times and everything are so smooth, and the IQ isn't bad at all on my 55 incher, that I just play and have fun.
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BigbyTheSheriff
Member
There are probably about as many games with RT on Series S.
scarlet0pimp
Member
The fact the series s doesn't have multiple modes or Ray tracing sometimes doesn't matter i don't think.
It's a budget gateway into the next gen. Once games stop coming out on the xbox 1 /PS4 than the series s will be the cheapest way to play next gen only games. Considering its aimed at people playing on old tvs or kids on bedroom tvs then people won't be bothered about missing 120fps or high resolution. Even 720p doesn't look bad on a small TV as long as the series s can actually play the games that's what matters.
For people who want better graphics and extra they can pay the premium price.
I have both series consoles and am happy enough to play on the S in fact I play on it more than the X because its in the family room. On a smaller TV the performance is fine, especially when games have a series S mode.
I do wish certain old xbox games could have the extra graphics polish of the 1x mode sometimes but any game that was made with variable res for the xbox one at least sticks to the higher res and frame rates are locked
It's a budget gateway into the next gen. Once games stop coming out on the xbox 1 /PS4 than the series s will be the cheapest way to play next gen only games. Considering its aimed at people playing on old tvs or kids on bedroom tvs then people won't be bothered about missing 120fps or high resolution. Even 720p doesn't look bad on a small TV as long as the series s can actually play the games that's what matters.
For people who want better graphics and extra they can pay the premium price.
I have both series consoles and am happy enough to play on the S in fact I play on it more than the X because its in the family room. On a smaller TV the performance is fine, especially when games have a series S mode.
I do wish certain old xbox games could have the extra graphics polish of the 1x mode sometimes but any game that was made with variable res for the xbox one at least sticks to the higher res and frame rates are locked
SkylineRKR
Member
The caveat I have with Series S is the One S mode on BC games that aren't X|S upgraded. The thing can do better than that, but it requires a workaround like they did with some releases.
RT is a bust on all consoles, imo. I never use it on PS5. I hated Control at 30fps and input lag. And don't get me started on DMCV with its fluctuating performance or 1080p with turbo mode disabled. Its default or 120hz, but RT mode can fuck off.
RT is a bust on all consoles, imo. I never use it on PS5. I hated Control at 30fps and input lag. And don't get me started on DMCV with its fluctuating performance or 1080p with turbo mode disabled. Its default or 120hz, but RT mode can fuck off.
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Chukhopops
Member
Performance comparisons are just one aspect to look at when measuring why people buy a console or a PC. That’s why there are budget options for processors, graphics cards etc and if you look at Steam stats most PC users run with cheap / old configs and 67% run games at 1080p. Not everyone gives a shit about the best performance.
If you’re looking for the best performance just don’t buy a Series S and voila, problem solved.
True story, if there was a Sony equivalent (which would run PS5 games at 1080p) I would have bought it instead of a fat PS5. Because I only play the few exclusives I can’t miss and don’t care at which resolution they run, it’s a tertiary ecosystem to me after Xbox and Switch and it will probably stay that way.
If you’re looking for the best performance just don’t buy a Series S and voila, problem solved.
True story, if there was a Sony equivalent (which would run PS5 games at 1080p) I would have bought it instead of a fat PS5. Because I only play the few exclusives I can’t miss and don’t care at which resolution they run, it’s a tertiary ecosystem to me after Xbox and Switch and it will probably stay that way.
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