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"Xbox Series consoles have sold less in the same timeframe as XB1" Really?

PaintTinJr

Member
This is literally preposterous and I don’t know how you can say this when you clearly don’t own a Series S. Why spout this BS on an enthusiast forum?

I own one and I owned a PS4 Pro from launch until 7 months ago.

The PS4 Pro played last gen games at 1800p.

The Series S plays next gen games at 1080p.

I’m not sure what’s difficult to grasp about it. The fidelity on a game like Gears 5 running at 120fps or Cold War at 60fps far trumps anything my PS4 Pro could put out, including games like Spider-Man. Not to mention loading times of well over a minute on PS4 Pro compared to sub 10 seconds on the S. Ludicrous comparison.
The technical specs of the console are publicly known, and unless the series S was the only console Xbox released this gen - which it isn't - it has been clear from the start that if Series X can't do Minecraft RT at 1080p60, then Series S isn't going to have the RT feature, or will be running at 720p resolution or lower. Is that really next-gen in your opinion? It isn't in mine, and I've consistently said from the beginning - when the S was rumoured - that the Series S only solves a problem for Xbox - not for consumers wanting next-gen experiences, not developers, nor publishers or the industry at large, and actually damages the promise of true next-gen games IMHO.

If you apply the same approach of reduction in resolution, fidelity and IQ features for the Pro/X1X each console could be natively tasked to be a slightly younger brother of the Series S, in the same way the S is a younger brother of the Series X - and the visual delta between the Pro/X1X would be closer to the S, than the S versus PS5/XsX, as face-offs are currently showing. What is the arbitrary point of reduction at which you'd deem this reduction unacceptable to no longer be valid as next-gen gaming?

Loading times are not the next-gen feature, as Rad game tools acquisition by Unreal, has meant the load times seen in Ghost tsushima on the original PS4 could be available to all Unreal 4 games, and engines. Streaming in real-time like Unreal engine 5 is different, but as yet we haven't even see the Series X achieve that so far, so I can't say for sure how that might be scaled down to the Series S's lower specs to make it a feature the Pro/X1X couldn't do without - as they have more available memory and could target a lower resolution to hide data latency to match the S - obviously, not the PS5 or XsX, assuming parity.

If you've already bought into it, then I get your frustration at my comment, but them calling their consoles "Series" and saying they aren't following the classic generation model meant they were open about this, and we all know publishers aren't going to favour the series S, because there isn't a financial incentive.
 

ZywyPL

Banned
If you apply the same approach of reduction in resolution, fidelity and IQ features for the Pro/X1X each console could be natively tasked to be a slightly younger brother of the Series S, in the same way the S is a younger brother of the Series X - and the visual delta between the Pro/X1X would be closer to the S, than the S versus PS5/XsX, as face-offs are currently showing. What is the arbitrary point of reduction at which you'd deem this reduction unacceptable to no longer be valid as next-gen gaming?

Loading times are not the next-gen feature, as Rad game tools acquisition by Unreal, has meant the load times seen in Ghost tsushima on the original PS4 could be available to all Unreal 4 games, and engines. Streaming in real-time like Unreal engine 5 is different, but as yet we haven't even see the Series X achieve that so far, so I can't say for sure how that might be scaled down to the Series S's lower specs to make it a feature the Pro/X1X couldn't do without - as they have more available memory and could target a lower resolution to hide data latency to match the S - obviously, not the PS5 or XsX, assuming parity.


Sure you can drop down the resolution on Pro/1X, but the the new CPUs is what makes a night and day difference in the new consoles, something Pro/1X will never able to mimic, so 60FPS will always be out of the question for the older platforms no matter how low you'll go. Even just a simple task as navigating the OS/stores/menus isn't a pain in the ass anymore to begin with. And it's all backed up by SSDs which elevates the whole experience even further. Because as impressive as GoT is, there are literally THOUSANDS PS4/XB1 games that need minutes to load, so one swallow does not make spring as they say, whereas when the same games are launched on PS5/Series S/X they boot up within seconds.

Seriously, what kind of a masochist do you have to be to want to buy that crappy Jaguar over Ryzen and HDD over SSD?
 
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You're right I was probably looking at it wrong.

It's not because production started earlier it's because Sony bought more chips than Microsoft. Now for the next wave of production if Microsoft buys more chips than Sony then it's possible that they might be able to produce more consoles.

Waiting for full RDNA2 or starting production earlier isn't the reason why there's currently a difference in production. It's like you said because Sony bought more wafers than Microsoft. Now why Microsoft chose to buy less wafers is another area of speculation.

Maybe they anticipated less demand so they bought less or maybe Sony was able to outbid (crazy as it sounds).

That's the only reason in fact, MS obviously know that in the short terme Series won't sell as well than PS5. For the outbid, that's something you'll never see in this market (only Apple can block production, due to the fact that they "put" moneys to develop the technology but also is more than 20% of TSMC revenue).
 
That's the only reason in fact, MS obviously know that in the short terme Series won't sell as well than PS5. For the outbid, that's something you'll never see in this market (only Apple can block production, due to the fact that they "put" moneys to develop the technology but also is more than 20% of TSMC revenue).

Do you believe in the long term the salsa will be close between the two?

When it comes to these contracts I don't know for how many years they are for.
 

PaintTinJr

Member
Sure you can drop down the resolution on Pro/1X, but the the new CPUs is what makes a night and day difference in the new consoles, something Pro/1X will never able to mimic, so 60FPS will always be out of the question for the older platforms no matter how low you'll go. Even just a simple task as navigating the OS/stores/menus isn't a pain in the ass anymore to begin with. And it's all backed up by SSDs which elevates the whole experience even further. Because as impressive as GoT is, there are literally THOUSANDS PS4/XB1 games that need minutes to load, so one swallow does not make spring as they say, whereas when the same games are launched on PS5/Series S/X they boot up within seconds.

Seriously, what kind of a masochist do you have to be to want to buy that crappy Jaguar over Ryzen and HDD over SSD?
CPUs are CPUs as far as I remember - and massively benefit from reduced workloads - all the way back to the Motorola 6800 at 8Mhz, or an PC XT, or 8086 at 12Mhz. the idea that Jaguar chips north of 2000Mhz can't manage 60Hz gaming at some arbitrarily chosen lowball - little brother - resolution (160x80 if being ridiculous at the edge of the problem) is just not true.

The series S is being defended as a next-gen system only because Xbox define it that way IMO, because just in the way that the spec deficiencies compared to the PS5/XsX could make it last-gen , the same defence isn't being made for the Pro/X1X... probably because last-gen default 1080p30 Ips4 defined that games couldn't drop below that target resolution to maintain frame-rate (at 60 on the Pro) and claim to be AAA games, so they didn't. But the Series S opens the door to any resolution to achieve that objective IMO, and in that new context those mid-gen Jaguar chips are pretty amazing and could do the same little brother job I described in my previous comment even if at 720p or less.

As for the laggy interface, that can easily be a design choice to provide more RAM for the task or if the UI can be reduce resolution - and maybe have files running from a ramdrive, which is faster than an SSD. AFAIK everything could be traded off or removed to justify older harder being next-gen when you start down the XsS defence path.

As an example, the DS remake could be used as proof that PS3 is current gen PlayStation. Even though DS remake looks and plays great on PS5, it isn't really next-gen, and we can extrapolate that at a lower resolution the Pro can match that fidelity, and the PS3 shows the game scales all the way to the gen before last with fidelity and loading times adjusted. So I still believe the Series S is only next-gen because Xbox claims it is, and it can't deliver every feature of the XsX/PS5 and remain above 1080p30 - to be equal to the minimum target resolution and frame-rate of the previous gen - to truly be considered next-gen, even if the Zen2 CPU and other enhancements are nice improvements on Pro/X1X.
 
AFAIK the UK is as important to Xbox, or just behind the US in their target markets - especially as certification for games is done here, or it certainly used to. And buying a XsS in the UK is possible, and has been possible throughout the launch IIRC.

The data from various sources(tweets) in the thread - in the first two or three pages - suggests that they've sold a maximum of 2.4m between X and S - to match X1 - yet 3.5M console were manufactured. Assuming it was half and half for manufacturer numbers(as I said earlier in the thread), that leaves 1.1M XsS unsold, and probably most of them in Microsoft warehouses, because retail haven't bought them - through fear of having stock they can't shift, because sale-or-return is unlikely to be offered by Microsoft. So the reason it isn't available to buy in the US is because retailers don't see enough demand to take on that risk - for a box that is only considered next-gen because Xbox say it is, when in reality it is trading face-off blows with a last-gen Pro or X1X IMHO.
Nonsense. The XSS runs games better than anything last gen. Numerous games run at 60FPS on XSS and 30 on X1X and PS4 Pro. The XSS is current gen because it supports current gen features like raytracing, VRS, VA, SFS and has the same CPU as the mighty PS5. Sony only haters are the biggest detractors and its funny because they are impacted the least. Not one of those guys can point out any features the XSS is lacking outside of a Blu-ray drive which most agree is not a 'next gen' feature. You also didn't refute my point that the you cannot buy an XSS in the US at all, at any retailer. To say that is because there is no demand is totally silly. You can show the lack of demand by seeing them rot on store shelves. Can you or anyone show that?
 
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dcmk7

Banned
Nonsense. The XSS runs games better than anything last gen. Numerous games run at 60FPS on XSS and 30 on X1X and PS4 Pro. The XSS is current gen because it supports current gen features like raytracing, VRS, VA, SFS and has the same CPU as the mighty PS5. Sony only haters are the biggest detractors and its funny because they are impacted the least. Not one of those guys can point out any features the XSS is lacking outside of a Blu-ray drive which most agree is not a 'next gen' feature. You also didn't refute my point that the you cannot buy an XSS in the US at all, at any retailer. To say that is because there is no demand is totally silly. You can show the lack of demand by seeing them rot on store shelves. Can you or anyone show that?

1080p gaming in 2021 and 4TF really next gen?

Can't even buy physical media, and to expand the tiny storage it does have, need to shell out another £180.

And your comment about Sony fanboys being the biggest detractors.. I would say arguably it's the developers, even Bethesda staff, have been very outspoken about why it will hold back next generation games.

And yet you still can't see any issues with it. Total fanboy. Defending something just for the sake of defending something. Just like when you defended Xbox live gold price rises, Kinect and now the XSS sales figures. Even said Forza was a bigger franchise than GT.

How deluded can one person be.
 
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1080p gaming in 2021 and 4TF really next gen?

Can't even buy physical media, and to expand the tiny storage it does have, need to shell out another £180.

And your comment about Sony fanboys being the biggest detractors.. I would say arguably it's the developers, even Bethesda staff, have been very outspoken about why it will hold back next generation games.

And yet you still can't see any issues with it. Total fanboy. Defending something just for the sake of defending something. Just like when you defended Xbox live gold price rises, Kinect and now the XSS sales figures. Even said Forza was a bigger franchise than GT.

How deluded can one person be.

So the resolution and TF are the indicators which make it possible to define that a system is next gen or not ? If MS would have simply took the XOneX die and double the CU number to have 12TF with the new chip, you would have said that it is Next Gen ?
 

dcmk7

Banned
So the resolution and TF are the indicators which make it possible to define that a system is next gen or not ? If MS would have simply took the XOneX die and double the CU number to have 12TF with the new chip, you would have said that it is Next Gen ?

Just doubling specs doesn't work either.

What MS should have done for consumers, developers and for this generation would have been a digital only SKU of the Series X.

Developers having to spend time and compromising on their design this early in a generation.. isn't a good sign. As a gaming fanboy, don't like to hear comments like that.
 
Do you believe in the long term the salsa will be close between the two?

When it comes to these contracts I don't know for how many years they are for.

No, I think that PS5 will beat the Series consoles, no doubt about it but by which margin ? I really think that Series consoles will do better than XO vs PS4. We'll see, that will be I think a very interesting thing to observe :messenger_winking:
 
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Just doubling specs doesn't work either.

What MS should have done for consumers, developers and for this generation would have been a digital only SKU of the Series X.

Developers having to spend time and compromising on their design this early in a generation.. isn't a good sign. As a gaming fanboy, don't like to hear comments like that.

I understand your point of view, and clearly, if MS would have done its Series S in the same way than PS5 DE, it should have been a good thing for many reason. But howerver I don't think that Series S is a bad thing for the market and a bad hardware. I also think that its impact on devs side is a little overestimated, and that MS has not decided to launch this model without consultation, without discussions with devs etc ... I could be wrong, and we will see if that's the case :messenger_winking:
 
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If I see one at the store when I'm in buying hemorrhoid cream and buttermilk I'll buy one. Same goes for PS5.
I'm not jumping through hoops to get one, it can wait.
 

Jaxcellent

Member
I'd love to buy a XSEX, unfortunetely I can't buy XSEX or PS5 in my country, maybe its the lockdown, maybe its the scalpers, mixed with shortages, however you can buy the XSES here, but nobody wants one... I guess alot of gamers have a 4kTV here.. or maybe a lot of playstation fans.
 

Bankai

Member
Not surprised at all. Xbox 360 was fantastic and lots of gamers expected Xbox One to be great (as well).
Xbox one was shit, so expectation were.. tempered now.
 
1080p gaming in 2021 and 4TF really next gen?
Exactly they basically sabotaged the whole gen. No one asked for this, not gamers, not their 1st party and definitely not multiplatform Devs.

MS is happy being the rollercoaster brakeman limiting thrills and chills for everybody from the loser position.
 
Exactly they basically sabotaged the whole gen. No one asked for this, not gamers, not their 1st party and definitely not multiplatform Devs.

MS is happy being the rollercoaster brakeman limiting thrills and chills for everybody from the loser position.
They didn't sabotage anything. Most engines are quite scalable. This gen is gonna be great.
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
You're right I was probably looking at it wrong.

It's not because production started earlier it's because Sony bought more chips than Microsoft. Now for the next wave of production if Microsoft buys more chips than Sony then it's possible that they might be able to produce more consoles.

Waiting for full RDNA2 or starting production earlier isn't the reason why there's currently a difference in production. It's like you said because Sony bought more wafers than Microsoft. Now why Microsoft chose to buy less wafers is another area of speculation.

Maybe they anticipated less demand so they bought less or maybe Sony was able to outbid (crazy as it sounds).
There's only so much capacity, it may not have been microsofts decision to buy less wafers. Sony could have ordered more and Microsoft had to just get what they could.

TSMC has been swamped with orders and you can't just magic more production unfortunately. Hence the current worldwide situation
 
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There's only so much capacity, it may not have been microsofts decision to buy less wafers. Sony could have ordered more and Microsoft had to just get what they could.

TSMC has been swamped with orders and you can't just magic more production unfortunately. Hence the current worldwide situation.

I'm not sure about that. If Microsoft were to pay a premium on the wafers they could have obtained more. But then again it could have been a 1st come 1st served situation and Sony ordered the chips first.
 
They didn't sabotage anything. Most engines are quite scalable. This gen is gonna be great.

CxVfnzb.jpg
 

DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
I'm not sure about that. If Microsoft were to pay a premium on the wafers they could have obtained more. But then again it could have been a 1st come 1st served situation and Sony ordered the chips first.
You can't just do that as a business. TSMC is the world's largest manufacturer of chips for almost everyone.

Their customer list is insane.

Now imagine you come to me, book and purchase your production time and qty almost a month in advance of someone else and then that other customer comes and says I'll give you more money, basically attempting to start a bidding war on production time and allocation....do you think I would still be in business if I entertained that or would I have to honour the prices and qty of the original order?

If we read up on what has happened with the car manufacturing we can see that car manufacturers expected sales to drop due to covid so they cancelled their slots and allocation only to find that demand for cars actually increased in covid because the public didn't want to ride public transport in a pandemic...those car manufacturers couldn't get those slots back even if they tried to pay more money and now we have cars sat waiting for cpu chips because of it.

The whole manufacturing schedule for so many components is buggered.
 
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LMJ

Member
Both the XseX and PSV are supply constrained, does it really make sense to compare them to their previous gen counterparts (this obviously wasn't the case)

They are selling out instantly so there's obviously demand
 

DaGwaphics

Member
They didn't sabotage anything. Most engines are quite scalable. This gen is gonna be great.

This. Plus if devs need to go in and do a bit of optimization to get something playable on the XSS, that's just creating extra overhead for PS5/XSX. Whether that is realized in heavier RT techniques or higher framerates, etc.
 
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Didn’t Sony outsell the 360 in the end?
No, it really didn't.

I suppose if by "in the end", you mean well after the gen was over, and after MS was even manufacturing 360s, then maybe... But even that's iffy.

The real question that should be nailed down, is when does a gen end? Does it end when the next gen begins? When one manufacturer stops production to focus on current gen production? Or does it end when the last console is produced for that gen regardless of manufacturer?
 
This. Plus if devs need to go in and do a bit of optimization to get something playable on the XSS, that's just creating extra overhead for PS5/XSX. Whether that is realized in heavier RT techniques or higher framerates, etc.

hs8AwdC.jpg

That's some high grade self delusion.
 

Zoro7

Banned
No, it really didn't.

I suppose if by "in the end", you mean well after the gen was over, and after MS was even manufacturing 360s, then maybe... But even that's iffy.

The real question that should be nailed down, is when does a gen end? Does it end when the next gen begins? When one manufacturer stops production to focus on current gen production? Or does it end when the last console is produced for that gen regardless of manufacturer?
PS3 sold more than the 360. PS3 releases a year later so you can’t just cut off the last year of its sales because the 360 got discontinued. It makes no sense.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
hs8AwdC.jpg

That's some high grade self delusion.

Or you could just read up a bit on how most optimizations for switch ports get back ported to the original code base for the performance gains. Needing to get creative to get something on a weaker piece of hardware is the best form of optimization there is. Once we move into the next-gen only phase, devs will likely have to work a bit to get that 8GB of memory to work. That bodes well for memory utilization on PS5 and XSX and so on.
 

Sw0pDiller

Member
Here in holland series s are for sale and in stock almost everywhere + you van already buy it second hand for 50 euro less than new. Series x is out of stock but can be had for about 50 euro more than new on the second hand sites. Ps5 are virtually sold out for another 4 months and prices still go through the roof. Ps5 thirst is real and Xbox is just trying to make headlines with "gamepass is god-mode" and pr stuff.
 
This. Plus if devs need to go in and do a bit of optimization to get something playable on the XSS, that's just creating extra overhead for PS5/XSX. Whether that is realized in heavier RT techniques or higher framerates, etc.
As strange as it sounds, that might actually result in being a net positive. At least in the near future. Look at the current batch of games we've gotten so far. Even the PS5/XSX versions have had several issues here and there due to the consoles not being able to keep up. 4k/60fps was supposed to be the standard, and yet look at all the dynamics at play, as they struggle to even manage that. That's with them accounting for the Series S. Now we're supposed to believe that the Series S is somehow gimping the premium consoles?

TF this, raytracing that... People can speculate every which way they want, but that doesn't negate basic logic. If the PS5/XSX were playing everything at a perfect 4k/60 including raytracing, with the only obvious downside being scope and asset quality... Then yeah, there might be some substance to it, but that's obviously not the case.

This narrative that the XSS is going to cripple the entire gen, and is really bad for gaming is nothing more than fanboys of the competing console attempting to portray MS is a negative light, and keep up their mantra that MS is evil to gaming as a whole. Given recent events, this is the desperate level they've resorted to. A couple of devs intial disappointment at the XSS specs, and they've run with it as if they worked for the Pony Express.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
As strange as it sounds, that might actually result in being a net positive. At least in the near future. Look at the current batch of games we've gotten so far. Even the PS5/XSX versions have had several issues here and there due to the consoles not being able to keep up. 4k/60fps was supposed to be the standard, and yet look at all the dynamics at play, as they struggle to even manage that. That's with them accounting for the Series S. Now we're supposed to believe that the Series S is somehow gimping the premium consoles?

TF this, raytracing that... People can speculate every which way they want, but that doesn't negate basic logic. If the PS5/XSX were playing everything at a perfect 4k/60 including raytracing, with the only obvious downside being scope and asset quality... Then yeah, there might be some substance to it, but that's obviously not the case.

This narrative that the XSS is going to cripple the entire gen, and is really bad for gaming is nothing more than fanboys of the competing console attempting to portray MS is a negative light, and keep up their mantra that MS is evil to gaming as a whole. Given recent events, this is the desperate level they've resorted to. A couple of devs intial disappointment at the XSS specs, and they've run with it as if they worked for the Pony Express.

At bare minimum it should at least guarantee a 60fps mode in most third-party titles. Even if the XSS can only muster 30fps, devs should be able to work with those settings to get a 60fps mode running on the big boys at similar settings. For GPU bound games anyway, obviously if the CPU workload dictates 30fps that would be across the board.
 
PS3 sold more than the 360. PS3 releases a year later so you can’t just cut off the last year of its sales because the 360 got discontinued. It makes no sense.
"As of March 2017, the PS3 had moved 87.4 million units, surpassing the final recorded Xbox 360 tally of 84 million in 2014. ... The Xbox 360 actually didn't blow the PS3 out of the water. In fact, the Wii decimated them both with 101 million sold. The PS3 actually had value even despite its flaws.Apr 26, 2019"

The last quarter of 2013 before MS quit listing units sold, and when the 84 million number was announced, the 360 sold 3.5 million units in that quarter alone. So take all of 2014, all of 2015, and all of 2016, as well as the first quarter of 2017, and the PS3 ends up at 87.4 million.

I know you Sony fans love to simply drop those figures as if they are the be all, end all.
360=84 million
PS3=87 million
But there's context that curiously never gets mentioned. In order to assume that the PS3 outsold the 360, you have to assume that MS didn't manage to match the 360s last reported quarter sales, for over the next 3 years. And that for almost 3 of those years that MS continued to manufacture 360's simply to bury in the desert somewhere or throw away in the ocean.

I know reality sucks sometimes for some people, but the 360 outsold the PS3 last gen.
 

Zoro7

Banned
"As of March 2017, the PS3 had moved 87.4 million units, surpassing the final recorded Xbox 360 tally of 84 million in 2014. ... The Xbox 360 actually didn't blow the PS3 out of the water. In fact, the Wii decimated them both with 101 million sold. The PS3 actually had value even despite its flaws.Apr 26, 2019"

The last quarter of 2013 before MS quit listing units sold, and when the 84 million number was announced, the 360 sold 3.5 million units in that quarter alone. So take all of 2014, all of 2015, and all of 2016, as well as the first quarter of 2017, and the PS3 ends up at 87.4 million.

I know you Sony fans love to simply drop those figures as if they are the be all, end all.
360=84 million
PS3=87 million
But there's context that curiously never gets mentioned. In order to assume that the PS3 outsold the 360, you have to assume that MS didn't manage to match the 360s last reported quarter sales, for over the next 3 years. And that for almost 3 of those years that MS continued to manufacture 360's simply to bury in the desert somewhere or throw away in the ocean.

I know reality sucks sometimes for some people, but the 360 outsold the PS3 last gen.
No proof. None at all.
PS3 era living rent free.
 
I don't care what people say about the S.... I love mine.

I have both the XSX and XSS..... XSX being connected to my 4k TV in my living room and my XSS in my bedroom on my 1080p TV. I havnt noticed that much difference when I switch between the two, other then slightly less clarity and textures.... But it barely bothers me if all I want to do is carry on my game upstairs.

If I was a 13 year old who was given the S I would be extremely happy. If I had a choice at that age between a slightly less capable console with a years worth of gamepass (and therefor a ton of games) or a highend console with 1 or 2 physical games.... I'd choose the XSS a million times over. I'd have felt extremely lucky being gifted a console with 300+ games.

Luckily I'm an adult and I can have it all but for those less fortunate the XSS would be a fantastic purchase.
 
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PaintTinJr

Member
Nonsense. The XSS runs games better than anything last gen. Numerous games run at 60FPS on XSS and 30 on X1X and PS4 Pro. The XSS is current gen because it supports current gen features like raytracing, VRS, VA, SFS and has the same CPU as the mighty PS5. Sony only haters are the biggest detractors and its funny because they are impacted the least. Not one of those guys can point out any features the XSS is lacking outside of a Blu-ray drive which most agree is not a 'next gen' feature. You also didn't refute my point that the you cannot buy an XSS in the US at all, at any retailer. To say that is because there is no demand is totally silly. You can show the lack of demand by seeing them rot on store shelves. Can you or anyone show that?
See my previous point about why IMHO the XsS is only next-gen by Xbox classification compared to X1X/Pro.

As for the sales of XsS in the US, that still supports my earlier comment on the matter of retailers not taking on the risk - and if they've got known customers wanting $500 XsX in this crazy high demand, then encouraging $300 XsS sales is bad for their business, as lost turnover, as very few customers will drop $300 now, and another $500 when XsX is available.

Retailers probably have overstock of XsS in their warehouses already, hence the 1.1m that didn't sell through - and are trying to sell their modest overstock via trickling supply to distort the desirability of the product. Shelf space caries a greater premium in the UK than in previous gens(probably business rates/online encroaching) unlike the 360/Ps3 gen, and if the US is the same, retailers won't allocate much shelf space to low desirable products for long.

IMO either there is XsS availability - if retailers wanted it - or the analysis numbers are off and the entire 3.5m allocation of all series consoles have sold through. Or Microsoft have epically messed up, and sold 1.1m XsS to retail in various parts of the world with no customer interest in buying that console, all while they have a major supply shortage for their US market to sell those 1.1m XsS consoles - as you reasonably believe.

IMHO the numbers look normal and with meta-data Xbox haven't epically messed up Xss availability.
 

Renozokii

Member
You'd think that if someone wanted to show how much of a failure the XSS is they'd mention the sales in the largest market the world. Can I go to my local retailer in the US and buy one today?
No but you can buy one for for less than 80 above retail right now Here which isn’t really much. I also have one I could trade for right now for a switch and any one game from his list of 10 games if I so chose.
 

Renozokii

Member
I don't care what people say about the S.... I love mine.

I have both the XSX and XSS..... XSX being connected to my 4k TV in my living room and my XSS in my bedroom on my 1080p TV. I havnt noticed that much difference when I switch between the two, other then slightly less clarity and textures.... But it barely bothers me if all I want to do is carry on my game upstairs.

If I was a 13 year old who was given the S I would be extremely happy. If I had a choice at that age between a slightly less capable console with a years worth of gamepass (and therefor a ton of games) or a highend console with 1 or 2 physical games.... I'd choose the XSS a million times over. I'd have felt extremely lucky being gifted a console with 300+ games.

Luckily I'm an adult and I can have it all but for those less fortunate the XSS would be a fantastic purchase.
These comments are odd. First, why would a parent be willing to spend 300 on a console and nearly 200 for a year subscription but not 500 and then a year subscription. This is a parent supposedly knowledgeable enough about the series s being next gen over the Xbox one, knows about what gamepass offers, and wants to give their kid in monitored access to all 300 random games on gamepass without caring about the content of said games but is cool with dropping over 500 dollars for an s and gamepass, but not 700 dollars for an x and gamepass which comes with guaranteed longer longevity (idc what Microsoft says, there will be games unplayable on the s or that run shit enough they may as well be) and support.
 

Renozokii

Member
"As of March 2017, the PS3 had moved 87.4 million units, surpassing the final recorded Xbox 360 tally of 84 million in 2014. ... The Xbox 360 actually didn't blow the PS3 out of the water. In fact, the Wii decimated them both with 101 million sold. The PS3 actually had value even despite its flaws.Apr 26, 2019"

The last quarter of 2013 before MS quit listing units sold, and when the 84 million number was announced, the 360 sold 3.5 million units in that quarter alone. So take all of 2014, all of 2015, and all of 2016, as well as the first quarter of 2017, and the PS3 ends up at 87.4 million.

I know you Sony fans love to simply drop those figures as if they are the be all, end all.
360=84 million
PS3=87 million
But there's context that curiously never gets mentioned. In order to assume that the PS3 outsold the 360, you have to assume that MS didn't manage to match the 360s last reported quarter sales, for over the next 3 years. And that for almost 3 of those years that MS continued to manufacture 360's simply to bury in the desert somewhere or throw away in the ocean.

I know reality sucks sometimes for some people, but the 360 outsold the PS3 last gen.
You want to talk context but then gladly ignore the context of the 360 having a ludicrous 25% failure rate at its peak. Surely 1-4 consoles breaking had 0 effect on sales lmao. And I don’t see how it’s anyone but Microsoft’s fault for not revealing how much their console sells.
 

Renozokii

Member
Or you could just read up a bit on how most optimizations for switch ports get back ported to the original code base for the performance gains. Needing to get creative to get something on a weaker piece of hardware is the best form of optimization there is. Once we move into the next-gen only phase, devs will likely have to work a bit to get that 8GB of memory to work. That bodes well for memory utilization on PS5 and XSX and so on.
Or devs that don’t have the time and/or money to do that will simply cut features or ambitions they had for their games. Games that get ported to switch tend to be highly successful ones that justify that effort.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
Or devs that don’t have the time and/or money to do that will simply cut features or ambitions they had for their games. Games that get ported to switch tend to be highly successful ones that justify that effort.

I think when you look at the various platforms over the years and what developers achieved on them (even the X1 VCR) it could be deduced that devs will do anything within reason to preserve their vision.
 

EDMIX

Member
2.8mil Series consoles vs 2.9mil XB1 in the same timeframe. Ok i got that.
Still the article says its down to shortages, and still its pure admitted speculation on the guys part.
Thanks for the article.

EDIT Also according to the article Sony said PS5 sold 4.5mil PS5's in the same timeframe, making it the fastest selling console ever.
So 2.8mil Series consoles vs 4.5mil of the fastest selling console ever.
Its hadly a disaster, especially with the shortages.

Well...that is to be expected though. XONE launched with REAL exclusives by MS, later that gen MS basically stopped making those and continued to support BOTH XB and PC, thus the sales continued to slow down.

Its not really that big of a shock that many might not return to XB if MS is just putting all their games on PC too. If I owned XONE last gen, I'd probably do the same the next generation.

Someone buying a XONE for exclusives and then not buying the next XB cause they are all going to PC really isn't a shocking thing, but an expected thing. No different then when you saw Splinter Cell a timed exclusive and then the series sell more on PS over time or even Mass Effect. It will be less as the people who bought those titles early on, did so with an ASSUMPTION it would only be on 1 system, ohhhh its not? It will be on many systems? Oh...so I don't need to buy the next XB to play this then? bye

That is how that goes.


So Series X selling less then XONE, and MS selling more software isn't out of question or something. I believe that is likely going to happen as I'm still just going to play those titles on PC, especially the Bethesda titles as I already play them on PC, BUT if I owned a XB to play them last gen and lets say they ONLY appeared on XB, of course I'd just keep my PC. You are telling me you will put it on PC, thus I can just fucking keep that and my PS5. Why would I buy another system to play game I can already play on a platform I already own? So we should expect many who bought XBONE, to keep their PC's this time around. MS has made it really clear that they are supporting that platform fully so many might not return to XB based on this.
 

Renozokii

Member
I think when you look at the various platforms over the years and what developers achieved on them (even the X1 VCR) it could be deduced that devs will do anything within reason to preserve their vision.
That’s garbage. Vast majority of devs don’t get to “preserve” their vision. Look at all the downgrades we saw last gen, several Ubisoft games, uncharted 4, crack down 3, and forza Motorsport 5 . Look up cut content for some of your favorite games. Horizon zero dawn had to cut flyable mounts because the ps4 couldn’t handle it. Destiny had to gimp its scale and gameplay due to being on the 360 and ps3.

It’s a nice world to live in where developers get to make the most of every situation but the reality is they don’t.
 
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