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|OT| Xbox |OT| Power Your Dreams

Gatox

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They don't even need to acquire them. Just announce all the Persona Games are coming to gamepass and the next one will be day and date on Gamepass and people are likely to explode.

FF7R Series X version on Gamepass same day as PS5 release might also do the trick.

We should get a look at what the 1st half of April looks like for Gamepass tomorrow also.
Cant wait to see BF6 announced as day one on Gamepass....
 

Gerdav

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DaGwaphics

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Hot damn. Downloading Deliver Us the Moon as I type. I've been putting that off for ages now. :messenger_grinning_squinting:

There's just too much on offer and not enough hours in the day. First world problems. I guess I should repurpose some of my GAF console warring time.
 
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Gatox

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Auch. That Outriders test really got things going again. Why are people so insecure about their chosen platform?
I honestly think the Sony fans are so use to "winning" (fucking hate that term) that any small problem sees them lose their minds completely. Some of the breakdowns on here the past few months have been hilarious. Though its also incredibly tedious as there's now no chance of an actual decent conversation over anything on this forum unfortunately, as soon as things get interesting the usual bellends pile in and ruin it with their inane nonsense, talking like they are experts yet just proving they are imbeciles. Annoyingly I've found myself dragged into it a few times too lately, which just makes me angrier :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Mmnow

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It's not going to be enough for them who don't want it to be true, but it's the only logical answer. The maths just adds up.
 

Mmnow

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I honestly think the Sony fans are so use to "winning" (fucking hate that term) that any small problem sees them lose their minds completely. Some of the breakdowns on here the past few months have been hilarious. Though its also incredibly tedious as there's now no chance of an actual decent conversation over anything on this forum unfortunately, as soon as things get interesting the usual bellends pile in and ruin it with their inane nonsense, talking like they are experts yet just proving they are imbeciles. Annoyingly I've found myself dragged into it a few times too lately, which just makes me angrier :messenger_tears_of_joy:
I've been spending more of my time elsewhere, honestly. I used to think it was an issue with a small number of dickheads who happened to be huge fanboys, but it's systemic.

That small number of dickheads would be called out for console warring and derailing every time they did it elsewhere. Here it's part of the game. It just feeds the delusions and proper conversation is so devalued as to make this the gaming forum equivalent of a Facebook comment thread.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of any of these plastic boxes. They're a means to an end. But you can't like what one is doing and be disappointed with the other without being put in a box here. And that pisses me off. It's not worth the time.

Which is a shame, because the majority are pretty decent and this could be an awesome place.
 

Gatox

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I've been spending more of my time elsewhere, honestly. I used to think it was an issue with a small number of dickheads who happened to be huge fanboys, but it's systemic.

That small number of dickheads would be called out for console warring and derailing every time they did it elsewhere. Here it's part of the game. It just feeds the delusions and proper conversation is so devalued as to make this the gaming forum equivalent of a Facebook comment thread.

I'm not a particularly huge fan of any of these plastic boxes. They're a means to an end. But you can't like what one is doing and be disappointed with the other without being put in a box here. And that pisses me off. It's not worth the time.

Which is a shame, because the majority are pretty decent and this could be an awesome place.
Its a real shame, I joined fairly recently as I wanted to get involved in the next gen conversations, keep up with the news on both systems. I have owned both machines throughout the gens but only have a Series X at the moment, I tried to join in some threads but every single one soon went to shit no matter what the subject, quite often because of the actions of the same 5 or 6 members who are just morons and simply will not allow anything positive for the Xbox to be discussed. This is literally the only decent thread on the site for Xbox discussions, and that is not a good situation.
 

M1chl

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Shit's working perfectly.
 

M1chl

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Nikana

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It's not going to be enough for them who don't want it to be true, but it's the only logical answer. The maths just adds up.

Theres no doubt in my mind that Its in the building phase so profits will not be taken. But the unsustainable argument has literally no evidence to support it other than, dude trust me.
 
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I think Microsoft reported 18 million subscribers the last time they released official figures. If I recall correctly that was around the end of 2020. Given the hype and positivity around Game Pass over the past several months I’d be surprised if it hasn’t now exceeded 20 million. Do they hit 25 million by E3? That would be a huge frickin number and I think they could hit it if they drop some more Outriders and MLB type bombs onto Game Pass. And and this point I don’t think anyone expects Xbox to slow down on the momentum they are building.

 

Mmnow

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Theres no doubt in my mind that Its in the building phase so profits will not be taken. But the unsustainable argument has literally no evidence to support it other than, dude trust me.
Profits are absolutely being taken. If the narrative of "MS are just footing the bill right now" stood up for a second, we wouldn't be four years into this and only just be getting third party day ones. Something has clicked internally that says "make these deals now" .
 
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DaGwaphics

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Profits are absolutely being taken. If the narrative of "MS are just footing the bill right now" stood up for a second, we wouldn't be four years into this and only just be getting third party day ones. Something has clicked internally that says "make these deals now" .

Possible, but it could also just be a case of them just starting to really push for their long-term vision. The next-gen launch may have always been scheduled as the tipping point to really go full steam ahead. We have no idea. These big day one gets are both great for the customers and as marketing for the service, so who knows where they stand on that. Even if they are taking some losses right now, that's mostly expected of all these services when they are still trying to grow at a fast clip.

The console warriors on here don't think long-term. They fixate on the low-cost promos that MS has offered and ignore the serious earning potential down the road.

But, like you said, it is equally possible that MS is taking the slow and steady approach and has just reached the place where these day one additions make sense.
 
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Mmnow

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Possible, but it could also just be a case of them just starting to really push for their long-term vision. The next-gen launch may have always been scheduled as the tipping point to really go full steam ahead. We have no idea. These big day one gets are both great for the customers and as marketing for the service, so who knows where they stand on that. Even if they are taking some losses right now, that's mostly expected of all these services when they are still trying to grow at a fast clip.

The console warriors on here don't think long-term. They fixate on the low-cost promos that MS has offered and ignore the serious earning potential down the road.

But, like you said, it is equally possible that MS is taking the slow and steady approach and has just reached the place where these day one additions make sense.
Game Pass isn't like other subscriptions in that the streaming isn't the bulk of the product.

The loss leader thing makes sense for Netflix, but not for Xbox. They're getting more money out of people, not less.

I'd understand why it wasn't profitable if they chose to do it that way. I've seen no evidence of that though.
 

DaGwaphics

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Game Pass isn't like other subscriptions in that the streaming isn't the bulk of the product.

The loss leader thing makes sense for Netflix, but not for Xbox. They're getting more money out of people, not less.

I'd understand why it wasn't profitable if they chose to do it that way. I've seen no evidence of that though.

The subscription aspect is still very comparable to Netflix even if it is a local download. It can make a lot of sense at times to take losses in the beginning to create a compelling product first that can be used to draw in the customers that you need. While slow and steady can work too, there is always the chance that you aren't growing as fast as you could if you were willing to invest heavier upfront (like Netflix did in the beginning).
 
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Mmnow

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The subscription aspect is still very comparable to Netflix even if it is a local download. It can make a lot of sense at times to take losses in the beginning to create a compelling product first that can be used to draw in the customers that you need. While slow and steady can work too, there is always the chance that you aren't growing as fast as you could if you were willing to invest heavier upfront (like Netflix did in the beginning).
Okay, let's accept the premise. I disagree that Netflix is anything like Game Pass, but for the sake of argument let's say it is.

Have you got any evidence right now that Game Pass isn't making a profit? If not, why would you presume it's not making money?
 

DaGwaphics

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Okay, let's accept the premise. I disagree that Netflix is anything like Game Pass, but for the sake of argument let's say it is.

Have you got any evidence right now that Game Pass isn't making a profit? If not, why would you presume it's not making money?

We're on the same side here, I'm a GP supporter. I don't have any evidence that they are losing money. What I'm saying is it isn't a bad or dirty thing if they are losing some money now. That doesn't reflect on the sustainability of the service in the slightest.

Netflix literally isn't as successful as they are today if they didn't invest heavily in the beginning. The large library they brought forward is what drove the subscriptions to the point where they can invest the amounts they do in content and still turn a profit. A smaller slow and steady library may have never caught fire in the same way. A trillion dollar company investing in a product they have long-term faith in isn't a bad or scary thing. If they had a plan to really ignite the engines once the they had next-gen in place and Xcloud ready, there is nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with slow and steady either. The trolls don't have a leg to stand on here.

In regards to comparing Netflix to GP, they don't buy content in the same way, but they are both still subscription services that provide a library of content to be consumed for a fixed monthly price. So, definitely some overlap from the consumers point of view. A lot more earning potential for MS than Netflix since games have other monetization going on.
 
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Mmnow

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We're on the same side here, I'm a GP supporter. I don't have any evidence that they are losing money. What I'm saying is it isn't a bad or dirty thing if they are losing some money now. That doesn't reflect on the sustainability of the service in the slightest.
I can see where you're coming from and it's the right attitude to have. There isn't anything wrong with a slow and steady approach with these things.

But I think if your first thought in this conversation is to defend an initially unprofitable approach, you're already giving more quarter than you need to. The maths says MS is bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars each month on this service alone. Even if you factor in people bulk buying gold, that's a huge chunk of money every single month. It's not pure profit obviously, but it's a lot of money.

And unlike Netflix where there's only one source of income, Xbox can afford to slowly grow Game Pass as a profitable service. They don't need to build a catalogue, because the catalogue grows with new additions.

I just can't see anything in this scenario where they're losing money today.

And that's especially true when you factor in Greenberg's comments at 10m subs and Jez's comments today.
 
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DaGwaphics

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I can see where you're coming from and it's the right attitude to have. There isn't anything wrong with a slow and steady approach with these things.

But I think if your first thought in this conversation is to defend an initially unprofitable approach, you're already giving more quarter than you need to. The maths says MS is bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars each month on this service alone. Even if you factor in people bulk buying gold, that's a huge chunk of money every single month. It's not pure profit obviously, but it's a lot of money.

And unlike Netflix where there's only one source of income, Xbox can afford to slowly grow Game Pass as a profitable service. They don't need to build a catalogue, because the catalogue grows with new additions.

I just can't see anything in this scenario where they're losing money today.

And that's especially true when you factor in Greenberg's comments at 10m subs and Jez's comments today.

True. All the statements they've made have pointed to a fairly cautious approach. But, maybe we are seeing the early signs of them getting a bit more aggressive. 🤷‍♂️

Most of the trolls have a problem with MS flexing a bit with GP only because they don't feel like Sony would do the same with PSNow. If MS was going to splash some cash it would probably be trying to snag one of the bigger titles releasing every month. No better way to demonstrate how gamers can't afford to be without this service, even if it does cost MS a small fortune. That tactic is perfect for me as a customer, so I have absolutely no problem with it. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

I don't worry about their bottom line too much. Plus, I can see where the subscription should net them more per user over the course of a generation, so, I remain unbothered. Please spend away MS (immediately profitable or not), the meltdowns alone are worth it.
 
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Nikana

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Profits are absolutely being taken. If the narrative of "MS are just footing the bill right now" stood up for a second, we wouldn't be four years into this and only just be getting third party day ones. Something has clicked internally that says "make these deals now" .
I mean we don't really know if profits are being taken yet but signs point to it's in the incubation phase as they didn't push gamepass in nearly the same capacity until SoT launched. Since then it's been a far more aggressive push.

That comes at a cost and it would make more sense to reinvest in this period than take profits as they haven't even begun the push of letting their studios prop up the catalogue instead of third parties.

The deals are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, get people talking about it.

It's not really about them taking profits or not though at this stage, the idea of it not being sustainable is by far the more ignorant take that nobody has a real argument for how it isn't considering the data that's out there.
 
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Mmnow

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I mean we don't really know if profits are being taken yet but signs point to it's in the incubation phase as they didn't push gamepass in nearly the same capacity until SoT launched. Since then it's been a far more aggressive push.

That comes at a cost and it would make more sense to reinvest in this period than take profits as they haven't even begun the push of letting their studios prop up the catalogue instead of third parties.

The deals are doing exactly what they are supposed to do, get people talking about it.

It's not really about them taking profits or not though at this stage, the idea of it not being sustainable is by far the more ignorant take that nobody has a real argument for how it isn't considering the data that's out there.
SoT launched three years ago.

Look, I don't care if its making a profit or not. But like I said to DaGwaphics there's absolutely no evidence that they're not.

If you have a single data point, one bit of logic, one quote to back up your gut feeling here, that's fine. But if not,why would you presume it's not profitable, especially when we have both MS execs and insiders saying it is?
 

Nikana

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SoT launched three years ago.

Look, I don't care if its making a profit or not. But like I said to DaGwaphics there's absolutely no evidence that they're not.

If you have a single data point, one bit of logic, one quote to back up your gut feeling here, that's fine. But if not,why would you presume it's not profitable, especially when we have both MS execs and insiders saying it is?
Three years isn't that long in terms of building a brand and product. Especially if you look at their own history of products and services as well as their obvious goals with GP by their own words. 18 million subs, likely over 20 now, is not where they want to stop with the aggressive push.


I also never said it's not profitable, I said they aren't taking profits. They are reinvesting into buying studios and inking deals. Trying to saying that isn't a logical point is a bit absurd. They clearly are investing in GP.

And you'd have to provide some evidence to show that they are taking profits from gamepass. I'm not aware of Microsoft ever saying they are. In fact all I've ever seen is them saying is the opposite, that its not in the phase of making a lot of profits. Generating revenue as a whole in conjunction with xbox has been discussed but that's not net.
 
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Mmnow

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Three years isn't that long in terms of building a brand and product. Especially if you look at their own history of products and services as well as their obvious goals with GP by their own words. 18 million subs, likely over 20 now, is not where they want to stop with the aggressive push.


I also never said it's not profitable, I said they aren't taking profits. They are reinvesting into buying studios and inking deals. Trying to saying that isn't a logical point is a bit absurd. They clearly are investing in GP.

And you'd have to provide some evidence to show that they are taking profits from gamepass. I'm not aware of Microsoft ever saying they are. In fact all I've ever seen is them saying is the opposite, that its not in the phase of making a lot of profits. Generating revenue as a whole in conjunction with xbox has been discussed but that's not net.
Buying studios isn't a Game Pass expense and why would they be spending more on signing deals than they're making? There's no need to presume that, but if you want to - again - you need some sort of evidence of that.

The distinction you're trying to make between "making profits" and "taking profits" is pointless. If its profitable its profitable. If it was costing more money than it was making - even including reinvestment - it wouldn't be profitable.

Nobody in a position to speak about it has ever said its not profitable. Greenberg said it wasn't a big profit play at 10m subs. We're at double that now, and it didn't sound like they were losing money at 10m.

Plus there's the insider tweet you responded to saying it was making money.

And that's if you don't just wanna do the maths yourself. You can work out ball parks for revenue pretty easily.
 

Nikana

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Buying studios isn't a Game Pass expense and why would they be spending more on signing deals than they're making? There's no need to presume that, but if you want to - again - you need some sort of evidence of that.

The distinction you're trying to make between "making profits" and "taking profits" is pointless. If its profitable its profitable. If it was costing more money than it was making - even including reinvestment - it wouldn't be profitable.

Nobody in a position to speak about it has ever said its not profitable. Greenberg said it wasn't a big profit play at 10m subs. We're at double that now, and it didn't sound like they were losing money at 10m.

Plus there's the insider tweet you responded to saying it was making money.

And that's if you don't just wanna do the maths yourself. You can work out ball parks for revenue pretty easily.

Phil Spencer himself said the Zenimax deal was to bring exclusive content to platforms where Game Pass exists. Game Pass is their play by their own words.

And there's every reason to believe they are signing deals right now with the mindset of growth by their own words of Greenberg, Spencer and Nadella.

My distinction is not pointless at all. They are very different things. It's basic business. Paying yourself from a business and reinvesting your profits are vastly different approaches to growth. Theres a difference between revenue and net and your R&D and expenses are factored into that. And since by Microsofts own financials not being clear about what is netting them anything in the gaming sector theres no reason to believe they are taking net profits from GP.

Why do you think he said it's not a big profit play at 10 million? Because they aren't looking at taking profits anytime soon. This is Microsoft. They don't look at small time gains. Their financials show this.

Insiders are not sources either.

And doing the maths is not straight forward in any capacity considering we have zero information of how the deals are structured and what type of numbers are being agreed on.

But you seem to be hung up on this notion that even if it is or isn't profitable that im claiming it's not going to be profitable long term and I've said the opposite from my first reply.

We are saying the same thing, that it's a profitable endeavor, but others try claiming it's impossible which is absurd. We are on the same side.
 
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Rubberwald

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I’ve been playing a lot of games lately, so here is a fast recap:

Vikings: one of the recent GWG games. Basically a Diablo clone. Nothing particularly interesting, but it is not terrible. Plays more or less fine and interface and item management is nowhere near as cumbersome as let’s say Titan Quest.

Narita Boy: I think I finished it in four or five sittings. Really had tons of fun with it. Some of the imagery and animation reminded me of Blasphemous.

Dishonored: 60 FPS boost made all the difference even if it is a game that doesn’t rely on fast reflexes and precision. Probably my favourite game I played this year. Went for the no-kill approach and had a blast with it. Now, they have to frame boost the sequel.

Wreckfest: Demolution Derby events were the best and multiplayer made me laugh so much. Sublime. Interesting bit: it runs very smooth, but I always get noticeable framedrops only in one racetrack, at exactly the same spot. Doesn’t matter if you have cars or crashes in front of you.

It Takes Two: played with my wife who is not a gamer so the progress was a bit slow, but it’s the best thing Fares has made so far. Finally it feels like you are playing a game, not an interactive movie. It is also very pretty to look at.

Octopath Traveler: gave it two more chances. Wouldn’t say it grows on me (that faux ole English is super annoying), but I can see what people like about it.
 
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Mmnow

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But you seem to be hung up on this notion that even if it is or isn't profitable that im claiming it's not going to be profitable long term and I've said the opposite from my first reply.

We are saying the same thing, that it's a profitable endeavor, but others try claiming it's impossible which is absurd. We are on the same side.
I'm absolutely not saying you're claiming it won't be profitable long term - I wouldn't have taken so long to speak to you if you'd said that. The issue that I have with what you're saying is it's not profitable today.

It is absolutely paying for itself today. I'd gamble on it. But I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
 
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Harts316

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The endless debate of Game Pass profitability rages on. I don’t know if it is profitable or not, but you can’t argue that it’s not a great value. I’ll enjoy it and happily pay for it as long as it’s available.

Microsoft is a multi billion dollar company and probably has an army of people tracking the execution of this thing. I just think it’s tedious to speculate on something when all we know is a vague number of subscribers they have in total.
 
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DaGwaphics

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That was hilarious. It's like he one day tries to act as a shill for MS and then the next day tries to act like he's a Sony fan. Must be trying to gain followers I suppose.

I think he is a Sony Pony through and through, there is a bit of Ryan derangement syndrome going around. I think he caught that bug.

Sony fans have a different sense of logic than I have, so, it can be hard to follow. With the MLB thing, so many of them are very confident that Sony put the game on GP to get a cut of that MS money, and they feel better about that scenario. Even though that is the one where to make a buck "their guy" sold them up the river deliberately. 🤷‍♂️
 
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DaGwaphics

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The endless debate of Game Pass profitability rages on. I don’t know if it is profitable or not, but you can’t argue that it’s not a great value. I’ll enjoy it and happily pay for it as long as it’s available.

Microsoft is a multi billion dollar company and probably has an army of people tracking the execution of this thing. I just think it’s tedious to speculate on something when all we know is a vague number of subscribers they have in total.

I'm a bit triggered by this. WbMGs (Wanna be MBA gamers) need something to think about. :messenger_winking_tongue:

In reality there is probably no set line in the sand regarding GP anyway. They aren't forced to go in any one direction. They can try different things and see what triggers signups, how they value the PR generated by XYZ, etc., like you said, I'm sure they are number crunching every detail.
 
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