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[Koppelthorn]

Valve simply emulates a mouse, you can't do that on PS5 because almost no game supports mouse input

That makes things tricky...but I still feel like some sort of system level gyro would be more than feasible for the SW engineers at Sony to implement, even if its jank as hell on some games. I really just want to play MGSV with gyro input, I love that game but now that I only have a PS5 the gameplay is almost a chore to go back to without gyro.

One could say, that it's given me a Phantom Pain...

 

[01011001]

That makes things tricky...but I still feel like some sort of system level gyro would be more than feasible for the SW engineers at Sony to implement, even if its jank as hell on some games. I really just want to play MGSV with gyro input, I love that game but now that I only have a PS5 the gameplay is almost a chore to go back to without gyro.

One could say, that it's given me a Phantom Pain...

emulating a stick with gyro would feel REALLY bad in many games.

you can somewhat test how that can end up feeling yourself actually thanks to a certain game on PC lol.
Wo-Long on PC got review bombed on Steam because their mouse input for the camera literally just emulates the right analog stick, deadzone and all.
so if you use a Dualshock 4 or Dualsense on PC and play the demo of Wo-Long, you can set your gyro to mouse emulation and play that game... it will feel awful

it would work SOMEWHAT OK in some games. like Apex Legends for example, where you can set your reaction curve to 100% linear and turn your deadzone completely off or set it super low.
in those conditions it would feel decent I imagine, not perfect, but decent.
you would still get into issues with fast movements, because games using a Stick will have a maximal turn speed, so if you try to aim too fast you will be locked to a max speed.

 

[LaughingStock]

They need to make a controller with bumpers that won't stop working after a few months. I'm on my third elite (one v1, two v2) and RB is failing.

 

[64bitmodels]

Free likes to anyone who says that Gyro is rubbish and is glad that it isn't included in the Xbox controller.

Your tag is accurate

 

[Corndog]

That was kinda my point. The fact that they can charge that much for a controller missing so much tech, including a rechargeable battery, its ridiculous imo.
They should at least throw in that rechargeable battery they charge extra for.

No thanks.

 

[Spyxos]

What am i missing? I tried gyro in Splatoon 2 for 1 week and couldn't handle it at all. Is it something that takes a lot of time to be able to use it?

 

[Robb]

They should be including gyro in their regular controllers out of the box. Get with the times.

 

[01011001]

What am i missing? I tried gyro in Splatoon 2 for 1 week and couldn't handle it at all. Is it something that takes a lot of time to be able to use it?

depends how well you can adapt to new control schemes I guess.
I instantly got it back when Splatoon 1 came out, and loved it ever since

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

seeing how many players on splatoon use it that's simply not true

why are you always like this
why do you always have the worst takes

You're comparing a console controller to a handheld where gyro would make sense which is common in the mobile space.

How many people are using Gyro to play Forza Horizon or Ratchet and Clank?

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

An Xbox controller with gyro, and the proper software to customize it to your liking a la Steam input would be the stuff of dreams! Put that shit on Windows and the Series consoles as well...it really saddens me it's not a standard yet, certain games that can control with gyro aiming makes a night and day difference with the game's aiming accuracy on controller even if it wasn't built with gyro aiming in mind

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Your tag is accurate

...So is yours...?

 

[64bitmodels]

How many people are using Gyro to play Forza Horizon or Ratchet and Clank?

Ratchet doesn't support gyro and Forza doesn't either (it's on a console with a controller that doesn't even have gyro)
not a fair comparison

 

[DanEON]

Agreed. I just got an Dualsense Edge because I want to use it on PC with gyro. So I can use the back buttons to active the gyro in the game (instead of the common L2 Trigger)
I am so used to gyro that I cant play any game that has no gyro for aiming. I even abandoned mouse and keyboard on PC.

 

[01011001]

Ratchet doesn't support gyro and Forza doesn't either (it's on a console with a controller that doesn't even have gyro)
not a fair comparison

Ratchet and Clank would be great with gyro tho!

 

[Bonfires Down]

Developers need to get their shit together and add gyro support on PS5. On PC I literally just bind gyro to mouse and it’s done, so I’m sure they can handle it.

 

[calistan]

That was kinda my point. The fact that they can charge that much for a controller missing so much tech, including a rechargeable battery, its ridiculous imo.
They should at least throw in that rechargeable battery they charge extra for.

Fuck gyro, and fuck built-in batteries.

 

[RoboFu]

nah keep it simple. I remember watch people play super mario on NES when it came out and they would move the controller all around when they jumped. Thats what I think of with gyro features. lol

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Fuck gyro, and fuck built-in batteries.

Their rechargeable battery isn't built in. People buy it separately. Why can't they add that to controller package? That's what I was saying.

 

[calistan]

Their rechargeable battery isn't built in. People buy it separately. Why can't they add that to controller package? That's what I was saying.

Oh, umm, sorry. The one in the Elite controller is built-in, isn’t it?

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

Oh, umm, sorry. The one in the Elite controller is built-in, isn’t it?

I was talking about their standard controller, with the separately purchasable rechargeable battery people buy. With the price of the standard controller, that should be in the package as an option.

 

[Larxia]

They need to make a controller with bumpers that won't stop working after a few months. I'm on my third elite (one v1, two v2) and RB is failing.

So many things could be improved on the xbox controllers.

Other things I'd like:
- More silent, especially the sticks. On the dualsense there's some kind of soft ring on the borders where the sticks are, and it makes that when the sticks hit the borders, it's softer and a lot more silent, while on xbox it's hard plastic against hard plastic, making it extremely loud and with a stiff feeling.

- Better pressure on the face buttons. There is this issue on the ABXY buttons where the actual input isn't where the "click" is, but it's further away. This is very counter intuitive, sometimes when I need to hold a button in a game, I have the A button pressed, but it will randomly go off even if it's still physically pressed down, because I don't push hard enough on it, even if it's past the "click" zone. This isn't an issue on the dualsense either, the buttons are harder to press, but if they're pressed, they're pressed, there's no fail zone.

 

[jaysius]

NOPE!

Turn that shit off every chance I get, fuck that gimmicky bullshit.

The only game that half does it OK is Splatoon and that's because that shit is sloppier than a drunken whore, 0 precision required.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Other things I'd like:
- More silent, especially the sticks. On the dualsense there's some kind of soft ring on the borders where the sticks are, and it makes that when the sticks hit the borders, it's softer and a lot more silent, while on xbox it's hard plastic against hard plastic, making it extremely loud and with a stiff feeling.

I think you’re the first person I’ve seen bring this up about the noisy stick but yeah, it’s fucking annoying. Along with how damn clicky the d-pad and buttons are. Compare with the 360 pad and it’s a world of difference.

I also feel like the general shape of the controller has gotten worse for my hands, with 360 being best, then XB1 and Series last.

 

[Spukc]

Microsoft needs to learn how to make an Elite controller that lasts more than 6 months before getting involved in extra features.

This

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Ratchet doesn't support gyro and Forza doesn't either (it's on a console with a controller that doesn't even have gyro)
not a fair comparison

It's fair to the point that many games don't use it.

 

[eye__writ]

If they add gyro before adding Hall Effect sensors, then they fucked up.

 

[Bonfires Down]

If they add gyro before adding Hall Effect sensors, then they fucked up.

Not if the goal is planned obsolescence

 

[FeldMonster]

Keep that filth away from me and my first person shooters.

 

[LaughingStock]

So many things could be improved on the xbox controllers.

Other things I'd like:
- More silent, especially the sticks. On the dualsense there's some kind of soft ring on the borders where the sticks are, and it makes that when the sticks hit the borders, it's softer and a lot more silent, while on xbox it's hard plastic against hard plastic, making it extremely loud and with a stiff feeling.

- Better pressure on the face buttons. There is this issue on the ABXY buttons where the actual input isn't where the "click" is, but it's further away. This is very counter intuitive, sometimes when I need to hold a button in a game, I have the A button pressed, but it will randomly go off even if it's still physically pressed down, because I don't push hard enough on it, even if it's past the "click" zone. This isn't an issue on the dualsense either, the buttons are harder to press, but if they're pressed, they're pressed, there's no fail zone.

Honestly the only thing I want is a pair of back buttons. I don't care about any advanced features. The regular xbox controller is fine.

 

[damidu]

asking for too much from old ms, they can start with making an “elite” $200 controller, that doesn’t fall apart within months first

 

[eye__writ]

Not if the goal is planned obsolescence

"if"

 

[MarkMe2525]

Way overdue. I understand MS not wanting to be open to the perception that they are playing copy cat with Sony, but at this point, gyro aiming is so prevalent that I don't think one could really make a convincing argument of that.

 

[MarkMe2525]

almost no game uses it for "slight adjustments", YOU can use it that way, but in Horizon for example I almost exclusively used gyro to aim with barely adjusting with the right stick.

?? Doesn't your own argument work against you here? I tend to use gyro as described Gamer_By_Proxy , and couldn't one say that "YOU can use it that way" to your description of how you use it. I don't believe the developers expect players use of gyro aiming to conform to any particular play style. What I mean is that's gyro aiming is just another tool to use as one sees fit.

Now I admit I may be wrong, but off the top of my head, I can only think of a few games where developers tooled gyro controls to be used exclusively for a particular action. Lair, Splatoon, Star Fox. In most games they are tuned to work in conjunction with the right analog stick.

 

[Calverz]

I just want the series controller form factor. Its so perfect. Sometimes its hard going back to my elite 2. Gyro is becoming a must these days I suppose but I could live without it.

 

[March Climber]

The Wii should have never come out.

Way too many people online ignorantly think that gyro means waggling a controller like crazy and heavy wrist movements to aim.

The reality is that most people use gyro as a precision aim enhancer in shooters and that’s all. The only way I can see someone being against the modern implementation of gyro is if it intimidates them, but that’s just selfishness.

 

[01011001]

?? Doesn't your own argument work against you here? I tend to use gyro as described Gamer_By_Proxy , and couldn't one say that "YOU can use it that way" to your description of how you use it. I don't believe the developers expect players use of gyro aiming to conform to any particular play style. What I mean is that's gyro aiming is just another tool to use as one sees fit.

Now I admit I may be wrong, but off the top of my head, I can only think of a few games where developers tooled gyro controls to be used exclusively for a particular action. Lair, Splatoon, Star Fox. In most games they are tuned to work in conjunction with the right analog stick.

well no my argument doesn't work against me at all.

Gyro aiming in most games can be set up in a way that lets you aim almost exclusively with the gyro, using the right stick simply for re-centering.

using it for fine adjustments is imo a waste of gyro aiming as it doesn't use the bigges benefit of it, the speed.
if you use it for fine adjustments and you mainly aim with the stick, as described im the poste I quoted, you are slower than using the gyro as your main way to aim.

when I play something like Horizon Forbidden West, or Splatoon, I most of the time don't even have my thumb on the right stick while actually aimimg. the stick is only in use for general traversal and re-centering.
I use gyro basically like a mouse. in single fire I try to flick aim/flick shot... sadly that's often easier said than done due to the fact that many devs are too stupid to properly implement gyro aiming, just like many devs being still too stupid to properly implement stick aiming
you still get devs giving the gyro aim a massive amount of acceleration and smoothing
Resident Evil 4 remake is guilty of this.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Doubt. Halo players suck 2 aim assists in their games. They and MS don't care about gyro.

 

[ReBurn]

Dozens of people like gyro so I could see it happening.

 

[Punished Miku]

Dozens of people like gyro so I could see it happening.

Try Splatoon 3 sometime when the Japanese players wake up.

 

[64bitmodels]

The Wii should have never come out.

pre wii nintendo master race
we actually had diversity in our franchise lineup

 

[64bitmodels]

Fuck gyro, and fuck built-in batteries.

you do realize... built in batteries... can also be modular too right???? have you ever played a fucking 8bitdo controller??? comes pack in with a rechargeable battery that you can take out and replace with AAs if you wish. It's the best of both worlds and you don't need to pay for a rechargeable battery

and Gyro is still a far superior method to aiming with sticks. It's not gimmicky, it's more precise and far superior. If you can't get used to it, you can't get used to it. Doesn't mean you should limit the rest of us who do

If you think Xbox is being some kind of savior by not including basic features that every other controller manufacturer (including dinotendo) have implemented you are genuinely fanboys

The only game that half does it OK is Splatoon and that's because that shit is sloppier than a drunken whore, 0 precision required.

yep which is why you can totally get by playing splatoon with a stick right.... look at all those splatoon players using stick only, all 5 of them...

I don't see why you guys are so fucking averse to a feature that's optional. you can play dual stick and get whooped in lobbies if you so please but all we're asking is that the rest of us who want actually good controller aiming get some god damn representation. Not everyone wants to sacrifice analog movement for actually good aiming

 

[lh032]

out of all the features like stick modular replacement ,or drift proof stick , you guys rather get gyro for a premium controller ? Come on

 

[Mr Reasonable]

you do realize... built in batteries... can also be modular too right???? have you ever played a fucking 8bitdo controller??? comes pack in with a rechargeable battery that you can take out and replace with AAs if you wish. It's the best of both worlds and you don't need to pay for a rechargeable battery

Doesn't sound like a built in battery to me.

 

[jaysius]

yep which is why you can totally get by playing splatoon with a stick right.... look at all those splatoon players using stick only, all 5 of them...

I don't see why you guys are so fucking averse to a feature that's optional. you can play dual stick and get whooped in lobbies if you so please but all we're asking is that the rest of us who want actually good controller aiming get some god damn representation. Not everyone wants to sacrifice analog movement for actually good aiming

Dude I covered this, there's NO PRECISION in Splatoon, I ACKNOWLEDGED that it's GOOD in that ONE CASE. It's only good in super sloppy games, NO pro gamers use gyro.

 

[MarkMe2525]

well no my argument doesn't work against me at all.

Gyro aiming in most games can be set up in a way that lets you aim almost exclusively with the gyro, using the right stick simply for re-centering.

using it for fine adjustments is imo a waste of gyro aiming as it doesn't use the bigges benefit of it, the speed.
if you use it for fine adjustments and you mainly aim with the stick, as described im the poste I quoted, you are slower than using the gyro as your main way to aim.

when I play something like Horizon Forbidden West, or Splatoon, I most of the time don't even have my thumb on the right stick while actually aimimg. the stick is only in use for general traversal and re-centering.
I use gyro basically like a mouse. in single fire I try to flick aim/flick shot... sadly that's often easier said than done due to the fact that many devs are too stupid to properly implement gyro aiming, just like many devs being still too stupid to properly implement stick aiming
you still get devs giving the gyro aim a massive amount of acceleration and smoothing
Resident Evil 4 remake is guilty of this.

Lol I mean YOU can play it like that

 

[01011001]

Lol I mean YOU can play it like that

everyone who is good with gyro aiming can play like that and SHOULD play like that, because that's the closest you'll come to mouse precision and speed on a controller

 

[MarkMe2525]

everyone who is good with gyro aiming can play like that and SHOULD play like that, because that's the closest you'll come to mouse precision and speed on a controller

I read your comments here on gaf, and 95% of the time I feel like you give reasonable takes. Most of the time I even agree with your opinion, but I dont understand your stance on controllers/movement/aiming and feeling like your way is the only "right way".

An example: I can think of multiple times where someone has commented that they liked the movement in a game for you to then tell them that they are wrong, and the games controls are wrong. Like my guy, people like different things. These things are subjective. Yes, some methods of control are more precise, that doesn't mean they are better. Comfort, complexity, muscle memory, etc are all viable factors that contribute to ones preference in how a game controls, or method of controlling said game.

 

[01011001]

I read your comments here on gaf, and 95% of the time I feel like you give reasonable takes. Most of the time I even agree with your opinion, but I dont understand your stance on controllers/movement/aiming and feeling like your way is the only "right way".

An example: I can think of multiple times where someone has commented that they liked the movement in a game for you to then tell them that they are wrong, and the games controls are wrong. Like my guy, people like different things. These things are subjective. Yes, some methods of control are more precise, that doesn't mean they are better. Comfort, complexity, muscle memory, etc are all viable factors that contribute to ones preference in how a game controls, or method of controlling said game.

I usually only call out extreme cases.

the only thing I'm very particular about is aiming on a controller, because that IS indeed an objectively quantifiable thing that can be objectively good or objectively bad (and somewhere in-between) because it directly correlates with how precise you can move the camera.

and I also think saying you should try using gyro like a mouse if you're able to isn't wrong, because it's literally the best aim you can have on a controller. but I know many people just can't deal with gyro aiming, and that's fine too.

but in extreme cases when it comes to movement like in RDR2, like... come on... if anyone says RDR2 has good controls they are fucking mental. the character literally does stuff on his own due to an overdone animation AI (AI in the old sense not the new neural network sense), and reacts to your inputs in an extremely delayed way.

sometimes the animation AI also just fucking breaks or literally decides wrongly. Euphoria was never meant to be used on the player character, it was designed for NPCs... your character in GTA5 or RDR2 can randomly decide to just tip over and fall down while trying to jump across a gap, because the animation AI detected empty space below you and basically turns ragdoll mode on.

you basically aren't controlling your character directly in RDR2, you are giving the animation AI (Euphoria) commands on how it should roughly behave next

 

[MarkMe2525]

I usually only call out extreme cases.

the only thing I'm very particular about is aiming on a controller, because that IS indeed an objectively quantifiable thing that can be objectively good or objectively bad (and somewhere in-between) because it directly correlates with how precise you can move the camera.

and I also think saying you should try using gyro like a mouse if you're able to isn't wrong, because it's literally the best aim you can have on a controller. but I know many people just can't deal with gyro aiming, and that's fine too.

but in extreme cases when it comes to movement like in RDR2, like... come on... if anyone says RDR2 has good controls they are fucking mental. the character literally does stuff on his own due to an overdone animation AI (AI in the old sense not the new neural network sense), and reacts to your inputs in an extremely delayed way.

sometimes the animation AI also just fucking breaks or literally decides wrongly. Euphoria was never meant to be used on the player character, it was designed for NPCs... your character in GTA5 or RDR2 can randomly decide to just tip over and fall down while trying to jump across a gap, because the animation AI detected empty space below you and basically turns ragdoll mode on.

you basically aren't controlling your character directly in RDR2, you are giving the animation AI (Euphoria) commands on how it should roughly behave next

I remember you absolutely shitting on Deathloop, funnely enough someone said they liked the feel of the game and you were coming at them with all kinds of reasons why they were wrong. Shortly after I download Deathloop and fire it up. After moving around in the starting area, I remember thinking to myself "Self... That 01010111011 guy was right, this feels like shit". The thing is though, within 5 minutes, my brain picked up what was going on and it was not an issue. I put at least 25-30 hours into and I really liked it. It never was an issue.

I always have appreciated the idiosyncrasies of video games. It's their personality. It tells a story of choices made by the creator, their influences, their ambition. Sometimes it comes together and it's great. Sometimes it falls like a house of cards and that can be awesome too.

There is nothing funnier than Arthur galloping full steam ahead on his horse, for then it to eat shit and Arthur go flipping through the air all because your horses foot caught a rock. These moments emerge from the systems, you seem to not like, governing the video game world. The lack of precision and uncertainty can sometimes lead to fun. Hell, there is even a genre of games that are created with the lack of precision in mind: Falls Guys, Human Fall Flat, and the other copy cat games in the genre.

Edit: I want to clarify because I was responding to two things you gave as examples, Im not saying shitty controls make a game better or more fun, I'm saying I believe it's not nearly as big of an issue that you seem to believe.

 

[Max_Po]

I would love better replaceable sticks. The controller is fantastic as it is.