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Xbox head Phil Spencer says console tribalism is ‘one of the worst things about our industry’

Hitchyhero

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So basically, Phil is sad that the new Xbox launch isn't a runaway hit. You know, he talks a great game but it's been years with him at the helm and we have yet to see anything good come of it. The fact that they launched their next gen console with ZERO new games is just insane. Halo Infinite was the single first-party game that the Series X was supposed to launch with, but it got delayed so they put out a new console with nothing to offer for it. They keep buying up big studios but are failing to deliver where it counts.

Obviously they felt the need to release it alongside the PS5 because if they waited a year, they would be left in the dust. How many diehard Xboxers are there though that felt the need to upgrade at launch when there are literally no games at all that require it?

This is exactly the type of response he's probably talking about. Instead of being happy for Xbox fans your slating him and the release? And for what?

After coming from the PS4 last gen, I didn't feel any need to upgrade to the PS5 atm cus there's not very much to plahy, so why arnt you moaning about that? Especially when the big spiderman game is on PS4.

Personally, as a new xbox owner I'm extremely happy with the hundreds of games I can play on gamepass. I'm spoilt for choice.... Something that I've never had at a launch before.


But no.... He's very sad because the xbox is not a 'runaway' hit. You personaly know how he feels and personally know how many xboxs they sold, you personally know how many were manufacturerd and you've probably seen a ton left on the shelves /s
 
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sublimit

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In all honesty if he wasn't such a hypocrite and actually adressed the troll posts of their official twitter accounts and Aaron "XboxGunnaGiveItToYa" Greenberg's flame war posts i'd actually agree with him.

I always liked Sony more than any other platform and that was mostly because of the games they had. That doesn't mean i wanted the others to fail. I have been buying Nintendo consoles along with Playstation systems ever since the GBA and i also love a lot of Nintendo's IPs.

But with MS with the exception of 1-2 games in their whole 3 generations they had they never had exclusive games that appealed to me. I know for some people this is hard to beieve (especially Americans) but this is the truth and i'm being 100% honest. Maybe it's a cultural thing but i know that a lot of other Europeans also feel that way.

However before this gen regardless if the Xbox brand didn't appeal to me i never wanted them to fail.I always knew that competition was great for all companies. I dread to think how bad the PS3 would have been (both in terms of games as well as services) if the Xbox360 wasn't as successful as it was.

And in this gen this was the first time i was actually considering buying an Xbox console later on or at the end of the generation because out of so many studios MS has bought (and i'm not talking about Bethesda) and they have formed there are good chances that at least some of them will finally make games that will interest me.

But man,the Xbox fanboys during the end of the previous gen and at the start of this one are trying really hard to make me hate MS. I know that i shouldn't confuse the product with its consumers but man,i have never seen more lies,half-truths and spins constantly thrown by the Xbox fanboys especially for things regarding Sony and the PS5 or about how much more powerful the series X will be to the point that they are starting to make me not want to even touch an Xbox console.
I don't know maybe this is happening due to how much behind Xbox was left during last generaton and that made them incredibly toxic towards anything Sony related. In my country where the Playstation has been constantly dominating even during the start of the 360/PS3 era the situation is much worse. You would not believe the lies,half truths and spins Xbox fanboys have been spreading about Sony in the last 2 years.

In the end i know i will ignore those idiots and i will actually buy a Series X not for Gamepass (which is another thing that a lot of Xbox fanboys don't realize it's not for everyone) but for the exclusive games that interest me (i really hope MS releases a white Series X).

But again lets not pretend that guys like Phil Spencer and especially their marketing and PR teams are not the ones who fuel this "war" by stupid twitter posts,or dumb things they say at interviews or even worse by paying astroturfers in forums like this one and influencers to spread BS that they know their fanboy armies will spread in an instant.
 
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lucius

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Feb 21, 2006
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I think that PS5 needing a stand for it to be able to lie flat is a rather ridiculous design choice. Having to design storage specifically for the stand's screw is classic over engineering. Me saying these things may be hyperbole, but saying it doesn't mean I want Sony to fail. I'll still buy one when they release some games I want to play. I think Microsoft was dumb to launch Series X with literally no new games. Doesn't mean I want them to fail.

No more ridiculous that having a big ugly unremovable circle sticking out that once flat your attention is drawn to asking is that suppose to be like that, PS5 design is better in that way because vast majority will eventually just have it flat and wont change it for years or ever. Just marketing upright for reveals and new systems seems to be what they want, more flashy hype da power of the boxes.
 

azertydu91

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Sep 11, 2013
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In all honesty if he wasn't such a hypocrite and actually adressed the troll posts of their official twitter accounts and Aaron "XboxGunnaGiveItToYa" Greenberg's flame war posts i'd actually agree with him.

I always liked Sony more than any other platform and that was mostly because of the games they had. That doesn't mean i wanted the others to fail. I have been buying Nintendo consoles along with Playstation systems ever since the GBA and i also love a lot of Nintendo's IPs.

But with MS with the exception of 1-2 games in their whole 3 generations they had they never had exclusive games that appealed to me. I know for some people this is hard to beieve (especially Americans) but this is the truth and i'm being 100% honest. Maybe it's a cultural thing but i know that a lot of other Europeans also feel that way.

However before this gen regardless if the Xbox brand didn't appeal to me i never wanted them to fail.I always knew that competition was great for all companies. I dread to think how bad the PS3 would have been (both in terms of games as well as services) if the Xbox360 wasn't as successful as it was.

And in this gen this was the first time i was actually considering buying an Xbox console later on or at the end of the generation because out of so many studios MS has bought (and i'm not talking about Bethesda) and they have formed there are good chances that at least some of them will finally make games that will interest me.

But man,the Xbox fanboys during the end of the previous gen and at the start of this one are trying really hard to make me hate MS. I know that i shouldn't confuse the product with its consumers but man,i have never seen more lies,half-truths and spins constantly thrown by the Xbox fanboys especially for things regarding Sony and the PS5 or about how much more powerful the series X will be to the point that they are starting to make me not want to even touch an Xbox console.
I don't know maybe this is happening due to how much behind Xbox was left during last generaton and that made them incredibly toxic towards anything Sony related. In my country where the Playstation has been constantly dominating even during the start of the 360/PS3 era the situation is much worse. You would not believe the lies,half truths and spins Xbox fanboys have been spreading about Sony in the last 2 years.

In the end i know i will ignore those idiots and i will actually buy a Series X not for Gamepass (which is another thing that a lot of Xbox fanboys don't realize it's not for everyone) but for the exclusive games that interest me (i really hope MS releases a white Series X).

But again lets not pretend that guys like Phil Spencer and especially their marketing and PR teams are not the ones who fuel this "war" by stupid twitter posts,or dumb things they say at interviews or even worse by paying astroturfers in forums like this one and influencers to spread BS that they know their fanboy armies will spread in an instant.
I can understand how some individuals here and on Twitter can push you out of Xbox but there's toxic fans in each comunities.
Personaly Xbox doesn't interest me because I have a good PC but the point you make that is the real problem of Xbox is their management (Phil and Aaron mostly), they spread so much bullshit and spin that I can't understand how some can still believe them.
They need new heads that are competent in management, Phil is a salesman, he is good at buying things and looking like the cool guy, make him buy studios etc...
But he can't manage shit and that showed with Halo Infinite, some studios need creative liberties and other need to be tightly managed.
A good example is Supermassive games studio, under Son's supervision they put out Until Dawn which was amazing, but when they self published their Medan anthology games the games quality went downhill really low.It is a studio that need to be managed by publishers and some don't need that like SSM that got total freedom and delivered even through the risks.
Once they will manage that they will be in better position but then again I think their gamepass strategy can hurt the quality of the games.Time will tell but if they want to publish games every 3 months as they said, games will either have less dev time or smaller scope, that is a risk that need to be accounted in their strategy.
 

Foorbits

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Phil and his merry band of xservants regularly empower toxic Twitter trolls like TimDog and Colteastwood. I didn't notice him whining about toxicity when the console war was seemingly going in his favor all year, he even contributed his own nuggets throughout 2020... only now when Series X is shitting the bed on third party ports is he calling it out.

Wonder why...
 

CAB_Life

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If you're going to start a thread with all the laughable soundbytes the corporate heads have ejaculated, be sure to include "get a second job" and "I believe in generations" in there, too. The knife cuts both ways (unless you're platform agnostic and realize they're all full of rich, creamy shit). I think an 'accountability' thread inclusive of all manufacturers and their mouth-puppets might be benefitial, so that the fanboys here can realize how stupid they look.
 

Hudo

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I gotta say though that the console warring does seem especially stupid this time around, like all the idiots in the world decided that everyone can be an armchair expert and spout a lot of bullshit.
 
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TBiddy

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Phil and his merry band of xservants regularly empower toxic Twitter trolls like TimDog and Colteastwood. I didn't notice him whining about toxicity when the console war was seemingly going in his favor all year, he even contributed his own nuggets throughout 2020... only now when Series X is shitting the bed on third party ports is he calling it out.

Wonder why...

How on earth is Colteastwood toxic? TimDog, maybe, but Colt? Nah. Compared to Jaydub and the other insane members of that posse, he's a saint.
 

Lunarorbit

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What a load of bullshit. These top executives fostered the console wars with their actions and words. They are directly responsible for the system ecosystem and the fighting.

Looks like Spencer decided to pull out the bs playbook that he received from newly acquired Todd Howard. I have no quams against Xbox and hope they do well this generation but I can't stand this corporate double talk
 

Soodanim

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I like how people equate playful jabs by a Twitter account to console warring. If you’re decrying it then you believe it is serious just as much as people who use it to fuel the “console war”.
 

ReBurn

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What a load of bullshit. These top executives fostered the console wars with their actions and words. They are directly responsible for the system ecosystem and the fighting.

Looks like Spencer decided to pull out the bs playbook that he received from newly acquired Todd Howard. I have no quams against Xbox and hope they do well this generation but I can't stand this corporate double talk
I'm not sure top executives can be held responsible for people being idiots on the internet. People who fight over who has better toys were already stupid.
 
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oldergamer

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Phil and his merry band of xservants regularly empower toxic Twitter trolls like TimDog and Colteastwood. I didn't notice him whining about toxicity when the console war was seemingly going in his favor all year, he even contributed his own nuggets throughout 2020... only now when Series X is shitting the bed on third party ports is he calling it out.

Wonder why...
Garbage post, and also a heaping pile of dung. taking it way too personally dude.
 

mckmas8808

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If you want to read that into what he said then that's your prerogative I suppose. But if you take the time to actually read what he said it's clear that he's talking about the vitriol of people who are so invested in a plastic box that they actively rooting for people fail and lose their livelihood so that their favorite toy can win some imaginary battle. Good natured teasing is fun and corporations don't have feelings. People who insult others for liking a different company's product or who send death threats to journalists over a perceived slight to their preferred video game console are the people he's talking about. And he's right...they're despicable.

There's literally nothing about that tweet that shows Microsoft rooting for Sony to fail. Using that to call him a hypocrite is a reach. The Xbox marketing team teasing Sony for a silly design decision is not what he's talking about.

I think that PS5 needing a stand for it to be able to lie flat is a rather ridiculous design choice. Having to design storage specifically for the stand's screw is classic over engineering. Me saying these things may be hyperbole, but saying it doesn't mean I want Sony to fail. I'll still buy one when they release some games I want to play. I think Microsoft was dumb to launch Series X with literally no new games. Doesn't mean I want them to fail.

The bolded can't be done, without the vitriol of some others. We all understand and know this so no need to play ignorant. We know when two kids on the playground start joking on each other, that it's the friends around that hype things up to the point where the original two kids start to fight each other in order to protect their honor or dignity.

The worst of the worst are the minority, so why is Phil so fixated on them? Why is he thinking of "potentially" leaving the video game industry over 20% of the gaming community? Why not focus on the 80% that are neutral or just like to tease back and forth? How about Phil put the spotlight on us that aren't harmful and terrible.

Greenberg is a marketing guy, I don't understand what people expect from a guy in his position.

To not be bad at his job.
 
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EverydayBeast

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Microsoft has perfected the console warrior, they still haven’t settled down since the 1 year jump on SONY and the PS3 you do realize Microsoft started the console wars. Let’s not pretend Halo, Gears and Forza fanboys don’t exist. Microsoft wants to be Jesus and light up gamers with subscriptions \micdrop
 
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Alan Wake

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Professionalism, not tribalism. His boss's words. ;)

Yeah, yeah.

But I don't think Spencer means they can't talk well about their own products, after all they're trying to sell something here and make us an offer (hoping we can't refuse). I also think we need to separate fans from fanboys. I'm a fan of Forza Horizon, for instance, meaning I love the franchise and buy every new game physically (even if it's on Game Pass). That doesn't mean I go in to threads about other racing franchises just to throw dirt (pun not intended), which fanboys often do, or feel like the skies have just fallen down if someone say to me they don't like Horizon.
 

Lunarorbit

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I'm not sure top executives can be held responsible for people being idiots on the internet. People who fight over who has better toys were already stupid.
I'm saying that those executives are the ones responsible for inflaming everything. The are the starting point of the entire process
 

reinking

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Yeah, yeah.

But I don't think Spencer means they can't talk well about their own products, after all they're trying to sell something here and make us an offer (hoping we can't refuse). I also think we need to separate fans from fanboys. I'm a fan of Forza Horizon, for instance, meaning I love the franchise and buy every new game physically (even if it's on Game Pass). That doesn't mean I go in to threads about other racing franchises just to throw dirt (pun not intended), which fanboys often do, or feel like the skies have just fallen down if someone say to me they don't like Horizon.
Nobody expects them to not talk up their product. Unfortunately the MS camp was bringing up Sony when Sony was being very quiet during the summer. As you said though, we need to separate fans and fanboys. I am a fan of all consoles and do some PC gaming.
 

mckmas8808

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My advice to Phil: Be the change you want to see in the world (and fire Aaron Greenberg too)

I love that this tweet aged like milk given where Sony’s exclusives are now vs Halo.


Guys.........this tweet is what we are talking about. MS Execs have been doing this for years. And it was all fine and good when things were looking great during the X360 years.
 
Mar 7, 2017
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If you're going to start a thread with all the laughable soundbytes the corporate heads have ejaculated, be sure to include "get a second job" and "I believe in generations" in there, too. The knife cuts both ways (unless you're platform agnostic and realize they're all full of rich, creamy shit). I think an 'accountability' thread inclusive of all manufacturers and their mouth-puppets might be benefitial, so that the fanboys here can realize how stupid they look.

“SonyToo(TM)” is such a weak argument to sit down and compose in a thread like this. And truly this is what your post amounts to.

An objective person is able to call out or tolerate the calling out of the hypocrisy and inconsistency of a gaming company exec and simply engage with that discussion as the chosen subject of the thread. When you have to start resorting to whataboutism in defence of the accused, while calling everyone else fanboys and feigning your supposed moral superiority, you’re only revealing you’re own lack of self-awareness.

As this thread is about something dumb that the Xbox head said, should it be any surprise that the discussion is dominated by the criticism of such? And so if you’re own knee jerk reaction to this is to want to go an make a thread digging up dumb PR statements from competing company execs, I’d say that says more about your own irrational bias and insecurity than anyone else in this thread you’re trying to call out as a fanboy.

Just saying...
 

#Phonepunk#

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im wondering on the scale of evil things, where does message board flame wars really fall? i mean, Phil's entire industry would collapse without African child labor and literal CCP concentration camps putting together his products.

i would consider that kind of exploitation FAR WORSE AND LITERALLY FAR MORE HARMFUL than any internet drama.

also, did you know that Microsoft was the first company to join the US gov't in the NSA spying programs that spied on Americans?

yeah there is a lot of shitty things about this industry. most of that is the assholes at the top. compared to the kind of human rights violation shit they get away with, all the message board drama in the world is nothing.
 
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CAB_Life

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“SonyToo(TM)” is such a weak argument to sit down and compose in a thread like this. And truly this is what your post amounts to.

An objective person is able to call out or tolerate the calling out of the hypocrisy and inconsistency of a gaming company exec and simply engage with that discussion as the chosen subject of the thread. When you have to start resorting to whataboutism in defence of the accused, while calling everyone else fanboys and feigning your supposed moral superiority, you’re only revealing you’re own lack of self-awareness.

As this thread is about something dumb that the Xbox head said, should it be any surprise that the discussion is dominated by the criticism of such? And so if you’re own knee jerk reaction to this is to want to go an make a thread digging up dumb PR statements from competing company execs, I’d say that says more about your own irrational bias and insecurity than anyone else in this thread you’re trying to call out as a fanboy.

Just saying...

What a snivelling response to a call for clarity. The MS mouthpiece never said anything other than the tribalism remark in this article, so why not just stick to the matter at hand? (Assuming nothing aside from the current topic has relevance, according to you.) I wasn't the one calling for "lists" and comeuppance threads. That was either you or the person you quoted (assuming I've followed the conversation chain correctly). Btw, I'll have my PS5 soon enough, and I've owned ever PS system since the PSX so please piss off with your labelling and projections of insecurity and bias. The partisan and incendiary nature of this forum is truly unbearable at times, and if you can't see that you're just as manipulated by corporate brainwashing as the opposing console warriors you so clearly despise. It's not whataboutism, it's fact.
 
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DeepEnigma

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im wondering on the scale of evil things, where does message board flame wars really fall? i mean, Phil's entire industry would collapse without African child labor and literal CCP concentration camps putting together his products.

i would consider that kind of exploitation FAR WORSE AND LITERALLY FAR MORE HARMFUL than any internet drama.

also, did you know that Microsoft was the first company to join the US gov't in the NSA spying programs that spied on Americans?

yeah there is a lot of shitty things about this industry. most of that is the assholes at the top. compared to the kind of human rights violation shit they get away with, all the message board drama in the world is nothing.
 
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I feel like this isn't the first time he's said something like this. Note, his personal feelings, if true, seem to have little sway over Xbox marketing, and in particular that Greenberg twat.
 
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petran79

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im wondering on the scale of evil things, where does message board flame wars really fall? i mean, Phil's entire industry would collapse without African child labor and literal CCP concentration camps putting together his products.

i would consider that kind of exploitation FAR WORSE AND LITERALLY FAR MORE HARMFUL than any internet drama.

also, did you know that Microsoft was the first company to join the US gov't in the NSA spying programs that spied on Americans?

yeah there is a lot of shitty things about this industry. most of that is the assholes at the top. compared to the kind of human rights violation shit they get away with, all the message board drama in the world is nothing.

Bill Gates laments Trump, company works for him

 

Saruhashi

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Of course the side that is losing the "Console War" would say that.

The fact of the matter is that most people will only be able to, or will only want to, buy one console.

Exclusives will be important because of this.

Microsoft have already blundered badly this gen by not having Halo Infinite as a launch title. I'm sorry but this is something they should have had planned and developed and ready for launch.

Meanwhile Sony is like "Demon's Souls, Sackboy and SpiderMan ready to go over here."

Even if they had been a little bit smarter they could have made sure their console was just sitting there ready to take home when PS5 had massive shortages.

Months ago I was considering Series X simply to see what the" most powerful console" might actually be like.

As it stands now there's no reason to buy one even if you could find one to buy.

Thats not tribalism. The console launched like 6 weeks from Xmas with no killer exclusive. Meanwhile Sony are offering a next gen exclusive in Demon's Souls.
 
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wtftad

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I think he's referring to the small minority of radical overweight middle aged man boys that live in their basement and dirty their controllers with Cheetos on a daily basis.

I think you mean morbidly obese ( I think the term overweight is bad now or something, right?) middle aged man boys that live in their 5,000+ square foot homes, with their multiple media rooms with both next gen consoles and pc rigs that make tomorrow cry; with their current wife that is 15 years younger than they are.

Sure they might be empty inside and are already looking forward to the next marriage, but lets at least represent them accurately. This isn't 1999 after all...
 

Alan Wake

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My advice to Phil: Be the change you want to see in the world (and fire Aaron Greenberg too)

I love that this tweet aged like milk given where Sony’s exclusives are now vs Halo.


That was TEN YEARS AGO. Years before Spencer became the head of Xbox. Do you remember the arrogant Sony during the PS3 era (or at least the first few years of it), as well as the sales bragging their E3 conferences consisted of during the PS1 and PS2 eras? It's weird to look at today. Things have changed since then, for the better I might add.
 
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Jaybe

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That was TEN YEARS AGO. Years before Spencer became the head of Xbox. Do you remember the arrogant Sony during the PS3 era (or at least the first few years of it), as well as the sales bragging their E3 conferences consisted of during the PS1 and PS2 eras? It's weird to look at today. Things have changed since then, for the better I might add.

Yes. The point is that the 'tribalism' that Phil decries is long-standing with their head of marketing, Aaron Greenberg, from back then to this recent console launch. Phil's the hypocritical virtue signaler here. That's why most people are calling him out.