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[Black_Stride]

Ok let's change the subject.
Does Ratchet and Clank use ray tracing?
No RTX bullshit just ray tracing in general.
Also many people use RTX as acronym. I've seen that many times over Twitter and Gaf so it normal that some people don't know about what it really means.

I think it does.
Some of the surfaces are using other reflection techniques, but some parts are almost certainly raytracing.

People use rtx as acronym for raytracing. Lol stop being obtuse

Oh okay I see what you're saying. Nobody in gamer comment land uses RTX as the "Nvidia" solution. We ALL mean just "raytracing". We use those 3 letters for short.

I get that....its wrong but I get that.
Thats why I said even social media mangers can make mistakes.

Imagine if they media manager for Forza Motorsport said:

Random Twitter User - Will the game use the Impulse Triggers in the controller.
Forza Motorsport Twitter - Yes your DualSense controller triggers will give off diffrent sensations based on traction.
GAF - Forza Motorsport is coming to Playstation, they said DualSense.


Implying you are using technology that is linked to your competition has many err.......Implications?

For TechGAF hearing that an AMD console game is using RTX means they have ported Nvidias technology somehow or have a secret Nvidia chip in there.
As a media manger you are supposed to be on top of that shit.
If you are working with AMD you cant be touting Nvidias technology.

Ask any person who does Rendering, if a media manager made the mistake of saying RTX is working on AMD cards.
People would lose their shit......then fuck you up when they realize you made a mistake.

OptiX - Part of RTX doesnt work on AMD cards.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I think it does.
Some of the surfaces are using other reflection techniques, but some parts are almost certainly raytracing.

Since this is Insomniac do you think they are using the same techniques in Spiderman MM?

I'm no expert but the reflections seem really similar to me.

 

[Black_Stride]

Since this is Insomniac do you think they are using the same techniques in Spiderman MM?

I'm no expert but the reflections seem really similar to me.

I would think so.
Its same engine no?

Devs would have to work hard on optimizations to get the best bang for buck out of RT.
Raytracing on every building even when they are miles away, wouldnt make much sense, but they could have some sort of activation space that everything RT enabled within [distance] of camera and character have RT reflections, outside of this field use Cubemaps or something else.

The biggest impact visually IMO is Raytraced Global Illumination.
For smaller scenes and certainly for cutscenes Reflections do add alot specially if you have good lighting, but GI is a real game changer.
Funny enough I think Spiderman might be using RT GI as well some of the shots ive seen dont look like baby AO.
If it is and that drops before the Cyberpunk RT GI patch, Spiderman MM is a very strong contender for best use of Raytracing so far.

 

[JTCx]

And he somehow didn't like it when I said he was wrong again as he was everytime.

One more to the list.

He has insomniac ceo on speed dial, hes going to call to confirm brb

 

[VFXVeteran]

Cmon now Alex

They should have stated it as such when they showed the demo. I don't go around asking devs in Twitter about their games so I couldn't tell. It wasn't something that stood out from the kiddie graphics look.

 

[VFXVeteran]

The self-aggrandizing expert burned again......and again...

Awww.. sorry Vroadstar. Your precious PS5 has 4 games using reflections as RTX. Where did the MANY games on PS5 using "raytracing" come into play? And please don't make such a big deal about your games using reflection code to suddenly think that it covers the entire gammut of ray-tracing FX. It's so minor.. let's see a game using GI or ambient occlusion using RTX @4k.

 

[VFXVeteran]

What are you talking about?

Raytracing was confirmed for Demon Souls on the official playstation blog, insominiac have stated on numerous occasions that Ratchet and Clank uses ray tracing.

Where have we seen raytracing on Demon Souls cinematic? Can you show me?

I can't believe you guys hound these developers for information on whether their games use RTX or not.

I go by what's in front of me and the hype. I don't go looking for interviewing devs when they show a PS5 game to wonder if it's RTX or not. You guys got me there with the info. I'll admit that.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

They should have stated it as such when they showed the demo. I don't go around asking devs in Twitter about their games so I couldn't tell. It wasn't something that stood out from the kiddie graphics look.

Whenever I seee stuff like this I´m asking myself if people like you are actually too stupid to even see what they are doing or if it`s just the mind of a 12 year old at the other end of the line trying to annoy as many people at once as possible by writing the most obvious bullshit they can think of.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Your precious PS5 has 2 games using reflections as RTX.

I think Gran Turismo 7 also uses RTX for reflections.

How Gran Turismo 7's Trailer Uses Real-Time Ray Tracing

Last week's Gran Turismo 7 trailer had quite a lot to unpack, and we've put together a helpful guide to anything that might have slid under the radar. One thing you probably won't have missed though was the graphics. For the first time, Gran Turismo will use real-time ray tracing technology -- pa

www.gtplanet.net

Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

[VFXVeteran]

We have already seen big games on PS5 using RT. As usual the most important will be the APIs and how easy it will be for devs to use the new feature in their games. And Sony seem to have the advantage here.

You've seen 2 games. One with cinematics (MM). R&C for gameplay.

Guys just ignore VFXVeteran about anything Sony related. He is in full denial about PS5 games having RT while running at native 4K both at 30fps and 60fps.

Xbox guys, just ignore all Sony fans that come in and try to shit on your Halo Infinite demo and any other things Xbox related as they'll never give you any credit for anything shown on the XSX. Look how they downplayed Hellblade 2 and FS2020.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Do people really care about raytraced reflections? For raytracing to have real visual benefits you need full global illumination, and I highly doubt we'll see that on consoles consistently. Better off with screenspace reflections.

Not for the Sony crowd. They'll tout anything regardless of how little it makes any difference in the overall presentation. I'd much rather have screenspace reflections and ray-traced GI/shadows/ambient occlusion.

 

[JTCx]

It wasn't something that stood out from the kiddie graphics look.

Cool professional vocab Mr. Eagle eye

 

[llien]

Why do people not want RTX to be in games so bad?

I wonder about the opposite.

We have seen stunning game on PS4, we have seen amazing Epic demo no PS5, neither was using ray tracing. (and hence could run on a lot of hardware)

Why do we even need RT in its current form?

I think Gran Turismo 7 also uses RTX for reflections.

Maybe I'm wrong though.

That is exactly the point, it is far from impossible to have these effects without exclusive (and at the moment niche) tech.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Hope people notice that RT is still not the perfect solution. Effects like particles do not reflect due to their seperate rendering nature. Screen space while only working with what’s on screen may actually provide more convincing reflections in certain situations.

Again, it’s not what you use, it’s how you use it.

They will absolutely not use the full solution. There is a shader that I wrote called "Ray switch" that's pretty much used in all of film quality shaders. What it does it that you can filter out what shader gets evaluated when you are reflecting. It will absolutely be used for the consoles/PC when ray-tracing reflections. For example, I might put a tag on an object called "animated". When the floor (like in R&C) is a reflecting surface, it will trace out rays and when it sees a moving object, it will test to see if that object is "animating". If so, it ignores evaluating that shader and moves on only evaluating shaders that are "static" and not moving. If it's the main character or some other attribute that they do want to show in reflections, they tag it appropriately. FX would be another "filter" where they ignore evaluating the shader. Grass or hair or even light sources could be made to not evaluate in these situations.

In short, you are right. The reflections will not reflect everything presented on the screen.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I wonder about the opposite.

We have seen stunning game on PS4, we have seen amazing Epic demo no PS5, neither was using ray tracing. (and hence could run on a lot of hardware)

Why do we even need RT in its current form?


That is exactly the point, it is far from impossible to have these effects without exclusive (and at the moment niche) tech.

I guess they are doing it because they can afford to. Plus I'm sure if they really want to increase performance they can choose other techniques.

The games currently using RT in some form look fine to me. I honestly haven't seen RT causing issues for these systems yet.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Are you not tired of digging so many holes lol?

Hey. I didn't lie. Just didn't know. I remember R&C now. Demon Souls I didn't know about because I didn't see anything in that cinematic that was RT. No biggie. I can admit when I'm wrong about something.

 

[mckmas8808]

I wonder about the opposite.

We have seen stunning game on PS4, we have seen amazing Epic demo no PS5, neither was using ray tracing. (and hence could run on a lot of hardware)

Why do we even need RT in its current form?


That is exactly the point, it is far from impossible to have these effects without exclusive (and at the moment niche) tech.

Because we all know what the holy grail of video game graphics are. Full Path Tracing RT is where we are want to be. So it makes sense that we'd want RT in our games.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I think Gran Turismo 7 also uses RTX for reflections.

How Gran Turismo 7's Trailer Uses Real-Time Ray Tracing

Last week's Gran Turismo 7 trailer had quite a lot to unpack, and we've put together a helpful guide to anything that might have slid under the radar. One thing you probably won't have missed though was the graphics. For the first time, Gran Turismo will use real-time ray tracing technology -- pa

www.gtplanet.net

Maybe I'm wrong though.

Nope. That's another one that I didn't know about. Good call!

 

[llien]

Full Path Tracing RT is where we are want to be. So it makes sense that we'd want RT in our games.

We are, to put it optimistically, a decade away from full path RT in games.
And we have amazing visuals right here right now.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Nope. That's another one that I didn't know about. Good call!

I wasn't trying to be a sign BTW. Just giving you some information thats all.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I wasn't trying to be a sign BTW. Just giving you some information thats all.

Absolutely appreciate it! Not all the Sony gamers got it out for me.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Absolutely appreciate it! Not all the Sony gamers got it out for me.

Here's some places where I think they were using ray traced reflections in Ratchet and Clank.

I know the quality is terrible but the floor in the gameplay demo.

There might be other places but that's where I've noticed it.

Edit:

I remembered that Quantum Error has raytracing but no idea what kind though.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Hey. I didn't lie. Just didn't know. I remember R&C now. Demon Souls I didn't know about because I didn't see anything in that cinematic that was RT. No biggie. I can admit when I'm wrong about something.

There are some in-game screenshots of demon's souls if you want to check those out.

 

[Handy Fake]

 

[VFXVeteran]

Seriously, at this point I'd be surprised if he knew what an XML file was.

Do you really want to go there?

 

[VFXVeteran]

There are some in-game screenshots of demon's souls if you want to check those out.

Link?

 

[DrDamn]

Hey. I didn't lie. Just didn't know. I remember R&C now. Demon Souls I didn't know about because I didn't see anything in that cinematic that was RT. No biggie. I can admit when I'm wrong about something.

Worldwide Studios: First look at 9 new PS5 games

First details coming out of today’s PlayStation 5 event

blog.playstation.com

From Japan Studio and Bluepoint Games comes a remake of the PlayStation classic, Demon’s Souls. In addition to beautiful shadow effects and ray tracing, players can choose between two graphics modes while playing: one focused on fidelity, and one focused on frame rate.

If you just don't know then why refute it so authoritatively?

 

[MasterCornholio]

Link?

I think he's talking about these.

They look like those gameplay shots without the HUD. I'll have to find the official ones but I believe they were labeled "captured on PS5".

 

[Neo_game]

Cyberpunk 2077 and Watch Dogs demo's were running 1080P DLSS at max settings on RTX 2080ti. Realistically consoles will be use low RT settings.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Worldwide Studios: First look at 9 new PS5 games

First details coming out of today’s PlayStation 5 event

blog.playstation.com

If you just don't know then why refute it so authoritatively?

It's not anymore authoritatively than when these guys say devs develop on the console first then port to PC.

It's ok. I got corrected and that's great! Now I know. They can add that to their list of "VFX said this and it wasn't true".. They can keep counting.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I think he's talking about these.

They look like those gameplay shots without the HUD. I'll have to find the official ones but I believe they were labeled "captured on PS5".

I can't tell anywhere that it's using RT reflections. But if they say they are using it, so be it. It should be more noticeable like the MM, R&C and GT7 demos.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You've seen 2 games. One with cinematics (MM). R&C for gameplay.

Insomniac also confirmed on Twitter, that several shots in MM were actual gameplay.

The hair scene with RT, etc..

 

[MasterCornholio]

I can't tell anywhere that it's using RT reflections. But if they say they are using it, so be it. It should be more noticeable like the MM, R&C and GT7 demos.

Found them

I knew I wasn't crazy.

I'm not sure there's a difference between the ones with and without the label.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I can't tell anywhere that it's using RT reflections. But if they say they are using it, so be it. It should be more noticeable like the MM, R&C and GT7 demos.

They are possibly using a soft GI and shadows in those DS shots as well as a clear reflection in the helmet. There is some very good AO on those vines and leaves to the pillars on the right.

Hell, even the cat/robot game Stray screamed GI galore.

 

[Handy Fake]

Found them

I knew I wasn't crazy.

If that's RT on the helmet then it's bloody lovely and perfectly used in an understated way.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

I can't tell anywhere that it's using RT reflections. But if they say they are using it, so be it. It should be more noticeable like the MM, R&C and GT7 demos.

I doubt they're using reflections. Well maybe they are but its not a game where its going to have a good source for them aside from the armour

Shadows and GI are what I see

 

[MasterCornholio]

If that's RT on the helmet then it's bloody lovely and perfectly used in an understated way.

Seems like Ray Traced reflections are probably going to be the most used ones next gen.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Insomniac also confirmed on Twitter, that several shots in MM were actual gameplay.

The hair scene with RT, etc..

Gotcha. I saw that scene and yes, it definitely looked like RT although that mirror scene didn't reflect everything in the scene.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I doubt they're using reflections. Well maybe they are but its not a game where its going to have a good source for them aside from the armour

Shadows and GI are what I see

There are two good ways for seeing RT in these games:

1) For GI you are looking for ambient occlusion on really small objects like grass or props on a table as well as seeing dynamic time of day light up dark areas but not to the point of blowing them out with intensity.

2) Shadows will look much better than the shadow maps and every object will cast them including small geometry like cups, pens, etc..

 

[pawel86ck]

Where have we seen raytracing on Demon Souls cinematic? Can you show me?

I can't believe you guys hound these developers for information on whether their games use RTX or not.

I go by what's in front of me and the hype. I don't go looking for interviewing devs when they show a PS5 game to wonder if it's RTX or not. You guys got me there with the info. I'll admit that.

-Ratchet and clank
-Stray
-GT7
-Godfal
-Pragmata
-Observer
-Quantum Error
-Spiderman (RT reflections and possibly RT GI, because there are dynamic GI effects in one particular scene)
-Demons Souls (possibly RT GI, lighting and shadows depth looks just stunning on screenshots)

Not bad for a console and that's just the beginnig.

 

[Mister Wolf]

The only raytracing that matters is for lighting. Let me know when a console games releases that does raytraced GI and/or raytraced emissive textures.

 

[VFXVeteran]

-Ratchet and clank
-Stray
-GT7
-Godfal
-Pragmata
-Observer
-Quantum Error
-Spiderman (RT reflections and possibly RT GI, because there are dynamic GI effects in one particular scene)
-Demons Souls (possibly RT GI, lighting and shadows depth looks just stunning on screenshots)

Not bad for a console and that's just the beginnig.

OK. So where are all these games verified as going to have ray-tracing?

R&C - check (reflections)
GT7 - check (reflections)
Spiderman - check (reflections)
Demon Souls - check (no screens that show any RT)
GodFall - check (reflections) also on PC so not an exclusive


Do you have links to any other games that you mentioned that confirm raytracing by the devs?

 

[Lethal01]

Where have we seen raytracing on Demon Souls cinematic? Can you show me?

I can't believe you guys hound these developers for information on whether their games use RTX or not.

I go by what's in front of me and the hype. I don't go looking for interviewing devs when they show a PS5 game to wonder if it's RTX or not. You guys got me there with the info. I'll admit that.

"hound devs"... I just actually care about games so I do things likes read about them, talk about the in forums and work on them..

developers are just constantly mentioning how they are using raytracing when discussing their games right now.... And also how beneficial the SSD is to all aspect of development but that's old news.

Seriously though, it seemed really weird and obviously wrong to claim the R&C and demon souls didn't have it, feel like It gets mentioned any time you look into the games. Which is why so many people replied instantly. It's like hearing someone say PS5 Hardware Ray tracing.

 

[VFXVeteran]

"hound devs"... I just actually care about games so I do things likes read about them, talk about the in forums and work on them..

developers are just constantly mentioning how they are using raytracing when discussing their games right now.... And also how beneficial the SSD is to all aspect of development but that's old news.

Seriously though, it seemed really weird and obviously wrong to claim the R&C and demon souls didn't have it, It's been mentioned everywhere. Which is why so many people replied instantly. It's like here someone say PS5 Hardware Ray tracing.

It was just a claim of not knowing or investigating. No worries. I'll consult you guys next time because I definitely don't have time to research about new games coming out.

 

[LordOfChaos]

As long as we get some RT refelction and global illumination we should be good .

Agreed. Just a reality of the costs involved, I always saw RT as a corrective technique for these consoles for now, touches here and there where there's obvious fixes to be made in rasterization, but not approaching full scene RT for AAA games. Would have been a bummer to miss out on it completely, it'll be an assistive technique for this generation.

 

[Lethal01]

OK. So where are all these games verified as going to have ray-tracing?

R&C - check (reflections)
GT7 - check (reflections)
Spiderman - check (reflections)
Demon Souls - check (no screens that show any RT)
GodFall - check (reflections) also on PC so not an exclusive


Do you have links to any other games that you mentioned that confirm raytracing by the devs?

Announcing PRAGMATA, a brand new game from Capcom, launching 2023

<p>UPDATE (Nov. 17, 2021): we have updated the release window for PRAGMATA. Please see our latest blog post for more info. Set in a dystopian near-future on Earth’s Moon, PRAGMATA will take you on an unforgettable adventure, powered by the Next Generation of gaming: PlayStation 5, Xbox Series X...

www.capcom-unity.com

Google "game + Raytracing if you want more"

 

[Lethal01]

The only raytracing that matters is for lighting. Let me know when a console games releases that does raytraced GI and/or raytraced emissive textures.

reflections and shadow are lighting though.

 

[Mister Wolf]

reflections and shadow are lighting though.

You know what I mean. But I will make it easier for you to understand. Having played the majority of games with raytracing currently available I don't give a shit about developers using it for reflections or shadows.

 

[Dolomite]

We knew this already. I'm predicting 1 feature would be used out of all the features available and it will depend on the game of course. RTX brings the 2080Ti to it's knees. So it is pipe dream thinking we'll see 4k/30FPS with all RT features enabled on consoles. Devs will have to pick and choose which feature they want to show.

Literally this.
This thread seems unnecessary and adds no new info. Hot chips told us all we can expect from the XSX Ray tracing

 

[MasterCornholio]

Literally this.
This thread seems unnecessary and adds no new info. Hot chips told us all we can expect from the XSX Ray tracing

Well I made a mistake on how Microsoft was doing ray tracing before with their 12TF comment. This thread cleared things up for me so I appreciate it.