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Opinion Analysis Hardware Without any details, I Feel 'Lockhart' Will (In Some Way) Hold Back The More Ambitious Next-Generation Games...

LED Guy?

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Your post makes no sense, they will target the high end spec as primary, and scale back graphics features for weaker machines, with today's architecture and tools it will take like a week to complete and optimize. I swear threads like these are designed just to find another nonsensical reason to pan the xbox series x, it's like a deliberate plan of misinformation. Combine this with "more cu's is worse" (not true):and "your ssd is 20% slower and for sure the series x must be hot garbage" (also not true) and "the ram is slower" (its not) according to many of these threads. It feels like a narrative is being written by a group of people with an agenda - discredit xbox series x at all costs.
And that's not even taking into account the weaker machine isn't even coming for sure.
Nope, if a console is selling more than the other then developers will make sure they target for that best selling console no matter what specs it might have, and the Lockhart will surely sell much better than Xbox Series X.

We’ll see...
 

joe_zazen

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I am not talking about XSX only but that seems your biggest concern

I am talking about next-gen in general ;\

Dont care about xsx, not buying one. just stating facts: Generations are dead except for sony and nintendo first party.

Games having to run on PC and be streamable is the new baseline for everyone else, so no big jumps, just soft upward slope taking years.

sucks, but whatchagonnado?
 
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BigLee74

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Never goes well when whinging cry babies get thread starting privileges on forums. I don't know why shit like this isn't locked down immediately.

No future games will be impacted by Lockhart, if it even exists. Rest easy young man.
 
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LED Guy?

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Because it's a beast of a system that will run every game at 4K... If the XSX is going to run it at 1620p, what is the PS5 going to run it at? 1080p?
If XSX is 1620p, PS5 will be 1440p.

Sorry, I just go by PC benchmarks and comparisons and this is the differences between, I know it’s disappointed to see that this is the difference between them because Microsoft have been touting”power power power” and all that but on the end, it’s really negligible.
 
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FireFly

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What about current gen and switch ? Have you not seen how many devs skip switch due to the down port issue and all the ones coming to switch have another team working on the down port specifically for switch ? Not every dev can do that specially in case of xbox. No devs will hire 2 teams to work on xsx and xss sperately like they do for switch case (where they hire a separate team to handle it)
The Switch has a much slower CPU and in handheld mode the GPU is about 9 times slower than a PS4's. You can't scale that kind of power difference just by dropping down to 720p. On the other hand DF has shown a 4TF GPU can run games at much faster performance at 1080p, than a 9.2TF GPU at 4K. (The comparison was done before the PS5 Spec reveal)
 
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LED Guy?

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Oh, OP, do you feel so? Poor OP, don't be so concerned.

Crysis Remastered is being released on Nintendo Switch.
If anything, Switch will held back anything until the coming years. So, no OP, you are simply wrong.

Also, We do not even know if the Series S will be even released, who knows? Why don't we wait until it's released or at least announced before making such threads? I have the feeling that



No, the Switch will do it, or the PS4 as well.



No, this is wrong. And you are spreading FUD. He is only talking about XBOX STUDIOS GAMES.

All Third Party devs are free to develop XBOX SERIES X only games DAY ONE.

He only talked about XBOX Studios, that THEIR games will on XBOX ONE too for the FIRST YEAR of the Series X. So, can you please stop spreading FUD?

OP is just trying to change the narrative of Xbox, so that xbox is not the most powerful console anymore, but instead the weakest and will even held back everything, which is beyond ridiculous. I think it's even worse than this thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/it-s...-higher-teraflops-count-a-risky-move.1536590/
The Switch isn’t getting almost any of the big 3rd parties right now, and you are bringing Crysis 1 Remastered? Are you serious? A 2007 game remastered?

A game the 360 and PS3 ran well?

A next-gen game that takes full advantage of next-gen consoles will never come to the Switch, even the more ambitious games this generation can’t bae done on the Switch.
 

Agnostic2020

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The Switch has a much slower CPU and in handheld mode the GPU is about 9 times slower than a PS4's. You can't scale that kind of power difference just by dropping down to 720p. On the other hand DF has shown a 4TF GPU can run games at much faster performance at 1080p, than a 9.2TF GPU at 4K. (The comparison was done before the PS5 Spec reveal)
Whats a 9.2 tf gpu ? 5700xt ?

on the consile side,There is no mandate for games to run on ps5 at natuve 4k. Game can easily run 1800p with checker board rendering to native 2160p(4k)
 

sonomamashine

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PS5 weaker than XBSX = it's all about secret sauce SSD
Lockhart 1080p/1440p machine = holding back 12TF XBOX
I brought the SSD because of the above, how quickly the narrative switched from TF to SSD when the PS5 specs went live.
Oh so ssd had nothing to do with this discussion u and I were having and you brought it from other threads because? Have I ever mention ssd will make the 17% gpu difference disappear? No I haven't. So again u brought it up in our conversation because ? Because u wanted to troll? Haha thanks for proving my point bud.
Read the above
Feel my pain ?? 😂😂I will be playing AAA GOTY contenders one after another. Its so painful. I m glad u won't ever go through thet kinda pain by playing those. Grounded /bleeding edge / battle toads at 8k and 120 fps will be painless and makes me jealous about not getting a console with 17% better gpu. U r so lucky 😫 👀👀
See thats pain right there ☝☝
You've been preaching hard lately
130 is not the correct math lol

PS5 ssd is 230% of XSX:

100% of 1 is 1
200% of 1 is 2: 200X1/100=2
230% of 2.4 is 5.5: 230X2.4/100=5.5


however you can say PS5 SSD is 130% faster than XSX:

2.4+(130X2.4/100)=5.5
Dude ssd is not about just laod time . Its about data accessibility for the whole system .so better lod , less popin , assisting cpu to work optimal . Access to data is one of the biggest bottle necks in any system (as nvidia always mention)

Load time is one of the benefits .
Ram is definitely not so clear yet . Ram is divided into two module on xsx and they can not be accessed at the same time which is not the issue on ps5 side. So when cpu is using the slower ram on xsx gpu stands idle till that cycle is finished and gpu can access the fast ram pool. Besides ps5 due to 22gb/s ssd can offload ui to ssd and leave 15.5 gb to games that can be accessed by both gpu and cpu from that one ram pool compared to 13.5 on xsx.

So yea ram is definitely not as clear as you want to believe .
Wtf ? Can u not read ? Xsx memory is split into 2. One fast part for gpu and one slow part for cpu ,os and low level graphics. Both can not be accessed at the same time . We are looking at the way the ram operates. This is a bottleneck compared to way ps5 ram operates. But u do u.
wHen cpu is accessing the slow memory gpu goes into idle waiting for its turn to be able to acess the ram .gpu sitting idle is a bottleneck by definition and devs need to find a way to get around this.
But its not repeat of ps4 and x1. X1 was 45% weaker and had a much worse ram yet it was 100$ more. So again how is it repeat of last gen ? Ram is better on ps5, gpu is weaker 18% and ssd is better on ps5.
Well they could easily say ps5: worlds fastest consoles for marketing stuff its easily understood by consumers and its a true statement.
To be fair they always say fastest most powerful xbox . I m sure if sony wants to use worlds fastest console like their job postings they will.
Well ps5 is the faster console in every sense. ssd is faster also Ps5 gpu is even faster than xsx gpu due to much higher clocks . So yeah ps5 is the faster console.
bro U r all over the place . I do not know what to say . Xsx has the slower,wider but more powerful gpu. Dont know why u think a more powerfull gpu has to mean it is also faster. Xsx is slower than ps5.but more powerful by 18% .
If you are a tech person You need to watch the road to ps5 to understand why ps5 is the gaster console . For fuck sake cerny has allocated biggest chunk of apu for an io to ensure the system.is the fastest we have ever seen.
Working hard i see, you're on a mission, can't put everything it's just too much
People hiding behind lockhart, just say this :
Lockhart holding back Series X < Playstation 5
 
D

Deleted member 775630

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U really need to get better at math . If xsx runs native 1620p, ps5 will be native 1440p
I never made the calculation because that wasn't my point. The point is that it's ridiculous to think that XSX will run games below 4K, and that Lockhart would hold back the new generation. This is pure FUD creation
 
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joe_zazen

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Sure, we'll wait for that. We'll see how "brute force is garbage" by then

i think he means that paying for something that devs wont leverage except by using the easiest options sucks. Like having an x1x and ending up with ps4pro performanc, or worse because all the devs did was move a couple sliders, see re3.
 

mejin

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aren't xbox first parties also going to run on xbox one for the first two years? at least these titles are likely to be held back by xbox one.

Horizon couldn't implement flight on ps4 because the hdd was too slow. It is likely similarly some gameplay mechanics making use of the ssd might not be implementable on xbox first party games.

MS first party games on Xbox One S is already a no go. I doubt MS really cares about Bone users with XSX coming.
 

Mista

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i think he means that paying for something that devs wont leverage except by using the easiest options sucks. Like having an x1x and ending up with ps4pro performanc, or worse because all the devs did was move a couple sliders, see re3.
Yeah and thats not going to happen next-gen. You got Vanilla PS4/X1 and Pro X1X for example

We'll have to wait and see
 

Agnostic2020

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I brought the SSD because of the above, how quickly the narrative switched from TF to SSD when the PS5 specs went live.

Read the above

See thats pain right there ☝☝
You've been preaching hard lately











Working hard i see, you're on a mission, can't put everything it's just too much
People hiding behind lockhart, just say this :
Lockhart holding back Series X < Playstation 5

Lol u went and got my comments from a ssd thread to prove I talk about ssd ?😂😂 I asked u to show me where I said ssd will make up for the gpu difference u couldn't. U even quoted one where I said xsx is 18% stronger haha . I didnt say I never talk about ssd . Reading comprehension is not your best skill I guess but that's OK.

Again just to be clear I never said ssd will make gpu difference disappear cause it can not .u assumed and brought it up to the discussion that had nothing to do with ssd and was about down porting.
 
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Stilton Disco

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I very much doubt anyone, other than maybe Microsoft, would be using Lockhart, if it indeed will be released, as their targeted specs.

More likely sacrifices will be made to get games running at a somewhat playable state on it instead or, more likely, it simply won't release on the system at all.

It will be interesting to see what will happen should MS mandate that all games must run on such a hobbled system though. It could well end up with a good few more PS5 console exclusives existing, unless MS pull off a miracle and end up outselling the PS5.
 
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FireFly

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Whats a 9.2 tf gpu ? 5700xt ?

on the consile side,There is no mandate for games to run on ps5 at natuve 4k. Game can easily run 1800p with checker board rendering to native 2160p(4k)
Slightly under clocked 5700 XT.

1800p is still 2.8x as many pixels as 1080p, so performance should still be ok at 1080p with 4TF.
 
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joe_zazen

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Having multiple phones isn't a struggle for Apple and so I don't know why having multiple versions of your console will be a struggle for Microsoft.

apple dont care , sure. But ios devs hate hate hate the amount of hardware they have to support. And the baseline is almost always 5+ year old hardware.
 
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sonomamashine

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Lol u went and got my comments from a ssd thread to prove I talk about ssd ?😂😂 I asked u to show me where I said ssd will make up for the gpu difference u couldn't. U even quoted one where I said xsx is 18% stronger haha . I didnt say I never talk about ssd . Reading comprehension is not your best skill I guess but that's OK.

Again just to be clear I never said ssd will make gpu difference disappear cause it can not .u assumed and brought it up to the discussion that had nothing to do with ssd and was about down porting.
Got your comments from SSD threads ? Son you are everywhere.
Yeah i quoted when you said xbox is 18% stronger after you shitted in every other aspect of it.
Just posted some of your latest comments, you are waaaaay too invested in this.
 

MilkyJoe

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What PS3/360 releases were there in November 2017? That's 4 years into this generation, where there were 170M+ 360s and PS3s sold.

Poke your head out of the window, there something happening out there that is going to create a bleak fiscal outlook, the game plan has gone right out of the window.
 
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Mod of War

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Settle down on the instigation and insults in here. Lots of hypocrisy flying around, and nobody's record is clean in that regard to be tossing certain accusations that I am reading.

Keep it on the topic of the hardware/development and why you think that way, or don't think that way... minus the tribalism for inanimate objects being dialed all the way up.
 

joe_zazen

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Yeah and thats not going to happen next-gen. You got Vanilla PS4/X1 and Pro X1X for example

We'll have to wait and see

i think ms will give xsx versions loving care, for sure.

But time and budget constrained third parties? Idk. I am expecting them to put their investments into where they think they will see the best ROI. Just like Riot isnt investing in maxing out 2080TI cards and 9900k cpus with Valiant.
 
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Mista

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i think ms will give xsx versions loving care, for sure.

But time and budget constrained third parties? Idk. I am expecting them to put their investments into where they think they will see the best ROI. Just like Riot isnt investing in maxing out 2080TI cards and 9900k cpus with Valiant.
I agree with you. I also think its time for them to get the maximum potential of consoles

Like I’m sure that CDPR will be doing that with PS5/XSX and so does Rockstar. Many more studios must take advantage of the potential and all of those big boys got the budget.

I for one don’t wanna go and own two new powerful consoles to end up seeing developers not taking advantage of the full potential
 
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Xbox One already will do that...

The most powerful console on the market is holding games back? Is that why the best console version of RDR2 is on X1?

From Software only had one console to dev for and look at the state of their games. When wipeout gets a pro-patch but Bloodborne doesnt?

Its up to console manufacturers to provide support for their consoles to get the most out of them. Blaming the lowest denominator when games can be designed for the highest end and scaled down much easier than the reveres....
 
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diffusionx

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Let's say the Lockhart doesn't exist, there is just the Series X. Serious question here, is there a single game that will launch only on Series X and nothing else? Third parties don't do that anymore, and now, Microsoft isn't either.

The days of big time boundary pushing exclusives is almost ever. Nowadays games are written to be multiplatform and get the widest reach. Every game. The Series X seems to be designed to play those games really well, which is probably the right decision from MS.
 

ethomaz

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The most powerful console on the market is holding games back? Is that why the best console version of RDR2 is on X1?

From Software only had one console to dev for and look at the state of their games. When wipeout gets a pro-patch but Bloodborne doesnt?

Its up to console manufacturers to provide support for their consoles to get the most out of them. Blaming the lowest denominator when games can be designed for the highest end and scaled down much easier than the reveres....
What that even means lol
 

joe_zazen

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I agree with you. I also think its time for them to get the maximum potential of consoles

Like I’m sure that CDPR will be doing that with PS5/XSX and so does Rockstar. Many more studios must take advantage of the potential and all of those big boys got the budget.

I for one don’t wanna go and own two new powerful consoles to end up seeing developers not taking advantage of the full potential

Full potential requires exclusive content, and the more types of hardware that must be supported, the further away from that you get.That doesn't mean companies like cddpr cannot invest in maximizing the xsx or ps5 versions as much as they can, if there is an economic incentive to do so. But, having to run on low spec pcs, lockhart, and laggy streaming services limit what they can potentially accomplish.

On the up side, it means easier back compat and more games being playable on the ultimate back compat platform, PC.
 

joe_zazen

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The most powerful console on the market is holding games back? Is that why the best console version of RDR2 is on X1?

From Software only had one console to dev for and look at the state of their games. When wipeout gets a pro-patch but Bloodborne doesnt?

Its up to console manufacturers to provide support for their consoles to get the most out of them. Blaming the lowest denominator when games can be designed for the highest end and scaled down much easier than the reveres....

Did anyone say that?

IF rdr2 was made just for x1x, it would be a different game. rdr2 was held back by original x1.
 

diffusionx

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Did anyone say that?

IF rdr2 was made just for x1x, it would be a different game. rdr2 was held back by original x1.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter, no game would be written just for one platform (with the obvious exception of Nintendo). They just don't do it and won't do it.

I could also say it would be great if games had minimum requirements of six core i7s and GeForce 1080TIs, it just isn't going to happen. It DID happen back in the day (every Origin game back in the day was like a new Crysis), but financially speaking it just isn't feasible these days. Even Sony's games are coming to PC.
 
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Did anyone say that?

IF rdr2 was made just for x1x, it would be a different game. rdr2 was held back by original x1.

You have nothing to prove that. LMAO.

The PS4 pro struggles to maintain 30 fps where the X1x does not. Where X1X does fall, its still running at a higher resolution while maintaining the same framerate as the pros lower settings/res


Please watch the WHOLE VIDEO BEFORE MAKING ANY INCONCLUSIVE (CONCLUSIONS?) OR ANY DRIVE-BY COMMENT AND PLEASE GUYS, STOP ACTING TOXIC!




What that even means lol

Its not difficult to understand.


Edit: I honestly think these are all bait threads so OPs can report console warring to the mods even though they started the thread/s.
 
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I really don't think it is real, I feel they will hold it back right now and not kill their momentum. Maybe release it later or something. You have the One X on the shelves now, why release anything else?
Again I will ask, can anyone prove that “Lockheart“ exists?

Who were the people talking about it?

I am honestly not convinced it even exists.

If it does exist I would like to think it doesn’t hold anything back as that seems to completely defeat the purpose of engineering the XsX at all. Maybe mandate that a game gets gimped on S version, not the other way around
 
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John254

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I very much doubt anyone, other than maybe Microsoft, would be using Lockhart, if it indeed will be released, as their targeted specs.

More likely sacrifices will be made to get games running at a somewhat playable state on it instead or, more likely, it simply won't release on the system at all.

It will be interesting to see what will happen should MS mandate that all games must run on such a hobbled system though. It could well end up with a good few more PS5 console exclusives existing, unless MS pull off a miracle and end up outselling the PS5.
Fact ia that for every "hardcore gamer" there are few gamers that are playing only their Madden/FIFA/NBA or don't care about 4K gaming or don't want to spend 500 bucks on new console but want to play next gen games.
There is your target audience. Fact that you don't see it doesn't mean that it isn't there. Or why do you think base models of XOne and PS4 outsold their more expensive brothers? Because price matters, hence Lockhart
 

joe_zazen

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Its real and its going to be priced super attractive.

That said I don't feel the S will hold back games near as much as current base hardware.

do you think ms is going to put all their subsidisation money in xss units, and price xsx at or above actual cost?

If so, easy to see $600 xsx and $299 xss, with xss being sold at $199 during sales. That will be verrrry interesting.

Sony will have to thread the needle price wise to compete.
 
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CatLady

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Holy fuck.

Yet another 'mock concern' thread by a renowned Sony fanboy, attempting to discuss stuff already discussed in countless other threads, and with a cheeky 'no driveby/toxic comments' specification (because OP knows exactly what nest he's trying to shake).

IMO, this kind of thread is toxic by itself.

If you must worry your precious little heart, worry more about the countless millions PS4 and Xbox ones out there. These 7 year old machines are much more likely to stifle new game development than this non-confirmed machine ever could.

Agreed -the intention of the thread like previous ones was toxic.
 

HeisenbergFX4

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do you think ms is going to put all their subsidisation money in xss units, and price xsx at or above actual cost?

If so, easy to see $600 xsx and $299 xss, with xss being sold at $199 during sales. That will be verrrry interesting.

Sony will have to thread the needle price wise to compete.

I see a $500 XsX and a $299 S as I see MS going all out.

Early afternoon guesses.
 
Feb 17, 2020
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Of course it is.
Nothing of you said makes sense or is remotely true.

Xbox One is lowest dominator MS is pushing... not Lockhart.


And?

That doesn't mean developers are going to prioritize that version of the console. RDR2 proves thats.

Just because you dont understand it doesnt mean we throw evidence to the contrary to the way side.
 
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So 'how' do you think Lockhart will hold anything back?

This is the same bs that console warriors use against the Switch. "Ugh, if Monster Hunter World came for Switch, it'd hold back the game's potential" - no, it wouldn't.

Neither Switch nor Lockhart would hold back any game in concept.

The amount of games that make specific use of full hardware not related to graphics is miniscule, and mostly found on PC anyway. The next Elder Scrolls will run fine on Lockhart and look fantastic on Series X/PS5, and nothing would be conceptually different if Lockhart didn't exist.

There are very few, specific situation where hardware power enables new gameplay (like big npc crowd), but unless there's a widespread surge of such games, nothing about Lockhart will impact game development negatively.
 
Nov 5, 2016
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Whats a 9.2 tf gpu ? 5700xt ?

on the consile side,There is no mandate for games to run on ps5 at natuve 4k. Game can easily run 1800p with checker board rendering to native 2160p(4k)

Is there an advantage to doing this rather than just outputting native 1800p? Seems like I would prefer native resolutions over CB rendering, unless both these consoles really can come close to emulating DLSS 2.0 (which I’m not convinced they can), in which case I’m all for AI upscaling