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[Windows Central] Xbox wasn't involved with Redfall, but it's still blamed for its quality

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The Contrarian
Microsoft to Redfall



And what talents are those? You don’t even know who works there.

But I agree that they should’ve been able to call a spade a spade.
... what? The talents of the team behind Dishonoured and Dishonoured 2 are self-evidently wasted on a "open-world looter shooter".


This is like saying Jim Ryan and co aren't to blame if next project by Bungie is a disaster, lol. Absolutely laughable take. I mean we've seen enough of these 60 rated games from Microsoft to know where they come from. People have been calling out Microsoft gaming division's quality control for a long time and here it is reeling its ugly face yet again. But Phil Spencer is protected as always from any sense of responsibility. Weve seen ir enough times to know how it goes.
I think people err on the side of giving Phil a pass because MS arguably wouldn’t shut down Xbox by now if not for him. I agree though, the buck stops with him and he’s just not doing what needs to be done to make sure that his studios are properly managed.


I thought this was common knowledge that Bethesda studios still operated outside of the MS umbrella and answered to Pete Hines or whoever. We’ve also heard from numerous current and former XGS devs that MS is completely and totally hands off and allows their teams absolute freedom. Too much freedom according to some of those devs.

Im sure MS made some decisions, like canceling the PS5 version, and removing some of the GaaS elements. And it’s not like this acknowledgement that Bethesda controls the game absolves MS of blame, because Bethesda is still MS. If the Bethesda big wigs were in charge of QC and this game released, that’s still on Microsoft.

It's a complicated circumstance, because I actually get where the writer is coming from, sort of, but MS has never defined what Bethesda is or isn't as a company right now, so all credit and failure gets assigned to MS regardless of the business circuits or the history. (MS only made the deal with Bethesda in 2020, finalizing in 2021, so the product line is still from pre-MS mostly. ) We'll hear from Pete Hines in June, but otherwise we don't see him or think of his company anymore. (Even though Bethesda ends up headlining every MS showcase when Xbox Studios comes up short again; i believe Bethsoft technically had more Xbox Series exclusive games now than MS does?) When you do the math, there's a lot of circumstances in the relationship to consider, but then you think of the relationship as it is understood and it doesn't matter the logistics because one of the involved is a ghost.

MS certainly won't lose the opportunity to crow about Starfield, assuming it's the blockbuster it's set to be.
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Sony make cringe trainers.
... what? The talents of the team behind Dishonoured and Dishonoured 2 are self-evidently wasted on a "open-world looter shooter".

I say it because they have two teams and I’m having trouble understand which one worked on Dishonored.

The director that worked on Dishonored 1 and Prey didn’t work on this game for example. Not the same designers either.

Raphaël Colantonio who co founded Arkane and director of Dishonored 1 and Prey left the studio. From the wiki:

“In June 2017, he departed Arkane, though he stayed with the Lyon branch of Arkane to help with transition to new management, while Harvey Smith oversaw the Austin studio. Colantonio stated that he wanted to spend more time with his son and re-evaluate his goals for the future.[5] In a 2020 interview, he said that part of his reason for leaving was "creative anxiety" around delivering a triple Aquality game where it felt like more like making a product instead, as well as wanting to take a break to focus on other matters.”

Went on to create Wolfeye studios who made Weird West.

All I’m saying is that sometimes we need to know who was behind the games, in the same way we do with movies. That includes other people who might have left Arkane.

Saying it’s the studio behind game A and B is all good and dandy, but it’s different from saying it’s the same team. Deathloop was a downgrade from Dishonored and Prey. Redfall is a shit show. Clearly something is different at Arkane.
What matters is the end product. Not who saved who or who was nice to some dweeb at a shill party. It’s the end product.

Some of the stuff I read on twitter and other places, Like the tail wags the dog, like we as consumers owe them something.

What are they actually paid for because all I’m seeing growing in the Xbox side of things is this notion fans and consumers shouldn’t complain or be critical and we should somehow not speak up and simply be subservient. I’m sorry , no.

Who buys a gaming device and games because of the executives

How does anything truly improve with this sort of thinking?

This Corden fella works all the angles, I see him , the shit he tries to pull. Why didn’t he say anything remotely close to this so called article before the games release?

His arrogance in the belief many can’t see what he’s doing is laughable. It’s not just what he says, it’s the timing of his antics that gives him away every time.


Which part of XBox Games Studios and Bethesda are two separate entities you don't understand? Matt Booty has as much to say about anything happening in Bethesda as guy running Office team. Bethesda as a whole is run by Pete Hines and he is responsible for ensuring quality of their games.
Zenimax as a whole is part of Xbox Game Studios. I can guarantee no Zenimax/Bethesda game goes out the door without someone on Matt's team having a look at it.


What exactly do you want Xbox to do, tell Arkane they have to work on the game for another year? even though it's clear that won't cut it either?


I say it because they have two teams and I’m having trouble understand which one worked on Dishonored...
Fair enough. I did some reading when the initial reviews landed, because Arkane usually puts out much better games than this. It looks like Redfall wasn't created by the studio who did Deathloop, it was the Dishonoured 2 studio. With that said, you're absolutely correct - the team itself may have changed makeup considerably, and this may not really be the same team.


Gold Member
The lack of involvement in a 1st party produced game is a problem for sure. No body likes excuses, and Windows Central's apologist stand does not do anyone any favors.

What is Xbox Ambassador and Xbox MVP?
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Gold Member
Matt Booty, Phil Spencer, whatever. Who cares who is to blame specifically here. They promoted and released this turd knowing full well it wasn't good. It reflects poorly on all leadership within the Xbox division. Either hire people who know what they are doing or gtfo.


Seems awfully convinient doesnt it? If it was well received im sure everyone would be singing a different tune. I'm actually okay with this perspective though, i just want cosistency. If they don't take ownsership on Redfall then they can't take ownsership of every game that was already in development pre acquisition.


They have. I'm just going off my own definition. I literally wouldn't call any Arkane game AAA. I think the game would have been received a lot better at $40-50.

Yeah I get that.
I guess what I meant more than if it's a true AAA game or not is that it's the first release from Microsoft in over a year that they have deemed large enough to get a full priced boxed release.

The whole comment in the article about Phil not being able to oversee every game made it sound like they have tons of titles in the pipe line for the near future. If this had just been a smaller title in a continuous stream of big successfull releases I doubt anyone would have cared much about it. But Microsoft themselves increased expectations for it with the pricing, promotion and lack of other titles for the past year.
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If the game was a big blockbuster success, do you believe they wouldn’t be touting it under their brand ?

They want to pass the buck and distance when it’s shit, but take the glory when it’s a hit.

Fuck off. Take the L. If you gave 2% of a crap you would’ve gone in to really play test and green lit another delay or two.


Gold Member
Its nowhere close to that bad. Picture the cost to MS reputation if they canceled it. Scalebound ×1000.
Cancelling a project we barely knew about right after taking over the company isn't as bad as cancelling something after announcing it to huge fanfare.

They could have cancelled it right after the takeover closed and maybe even gotten a tax credit for it or something.


It took Jez less than a day to get right back up on the shill wagon after his negative review of Redfall.

Hi-Fi Rush came out and all these zealots could do was praise Microsoft. Even though the game was in development pre-acquisition. If I’m not mistaken, some of these fanboys even wrote pieces like “Hi-Fi Rush Wouldn’t Have Happened Without Microsoft”.

But a studio bought in the same merger puts out absolute garbage and suddenly I’m supposed to believe that Microsoft had nothing at all to do with it and Microsoft bears no blame?

Fuck outta here.

If they’re gonna credit Microsoft for things like Hi-Fi Rush, then they gotta blame Microsoft for trash like Redfall.

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
The Bethesda aquisition is starting to look like an absolute train wreck. I know it was megaton news, but under the surfcace there's so many cracks in all these studios it's the only reason they could have been acquired to begin with.

And Microsoft does not have a good history of a "turnaround project". Only way their $7B valuation is justified if they have another Skyrim level hit
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