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Why Sony? Why can't I use my dualshock on PS5 games?

sainraja

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great comeback, you don't have a single argument left do you?

Sony forbids Controller A
Sony allows Controller B

both controller A and controller B have the exact same features... LOGIC!... nope, greed, the only logical reason left
Okay, I can give you a little nudge...but I can already see it's a lost cause (since you still think the point is about what you've manufactured). What will the market be like for those controllers (like how many people will have those)?
 
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great comeback, you don't have a single argument left do you?

Sony forbids Controller A
Sony allows Controller B

both controller A and controller B have the exact same features... LOGIC!... nope, greed, the only logical reason left

Well luckily they chose to include a Dualsense with every PS5. It would have been pretty terrible if they didn't.

Now I don't believe this issue will affect everyone but it sucks for those that are affected by it.

Really hope for OPs sake they come out with that paddle accessory.
 
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sainraja

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Well luckily they chose to include a Dualsense with every PS5. It would have been pretty terrible if they didn't.

Now I don't believe this issue will affect everyone but it sucks for those that are affected by it.

Really hope for OPs sake they come out with that paddle accessory.
And they also guarantee that most games will need to use it.

Regarding the paddle accessory, I was surprised that they didn't announce the paddle accessory with all the other accessories they announced. But yeah, hopefully they will come out with that.
 
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Gamerguy84

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Well luckily they chose to include a Dualsense with every PS5. It would have been pretty terrible if they didn't.

Now I don't believe this issue will affect everyone but it sucks for those that are affected by it.

Really hope for OPs sake they come out with that paddle accessory.

They are working on it.

 
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And they also guarantee that most games will need to use it.

Regarding the paddle accessory, I was surprised that they didn't announce the paddle accessory with all the other accessories they announced. But yeah, hopefully they will come out with that.

I'm starting to think that Sony really wants to kill the DS4 early as well as obtain some additional revenue from the new controllers.

For me it isn't an issue because I really don't want to go back to using the DS4 but I understand those that do.
 

sainraja

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I'm starting to think that Sony really wants to kill the DS4 early as well as obtain some additional revenue from the new controllers.

For me it isn't an issue because I really don't want to go back to using the DS4 but I understand those that do.
Sure, I am sure that's part of it as well. I actually liked how the DS4 felt and it's light weight; I wasn't so keen on DS5 until I tried it.
 
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They are working on it.


Ok so hopefully they come out with it soon. I don't see a reason for not producing it again.
 
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01011001

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Okay, I can give you a little nudge...but I can already see it's a lost cause (since you still think the point is about what you've manufactured). What will the market be like for those controllers (like how many people will have those)?

do you know how many 3rd party controller manufacturers there are? do you know the number of models they release each year? Nacon alone has like a dozen different models for PS4 (there's the Nacon Revolution, revolution Pro 3, revolution Pro Ultimate, some wired controllers, some wireless cheap ones...), Power A releases a new model every time the CEO is bored it seems, and these are only 2 companies.

so given that there are many companies with many controller models that all still alive and aren't bankrupt yet, I would say many people buy those.
this means many PS4 users have controllers with key features missing, and many PS5 owners will soon also have controllers with key features missing

can you tell me the difference it makes to have 1 controller compatible and another not compatible even tho they have the same features? hell, I bet there will be controllers on PS5 real quick that will have LESS features than the DualShock 4... many will just cut Sixaxis, or cut the Touchpad and just add a button there
this means we will one day have a situation where there are many people with controllers that are less capable than the DS4. hell that one I mentioned, the Hex Rival Hair Trigger version, basically already is such a controller as that one removes the Analog Triggers... and you will be able to use these controllers on PS5... while their DS4 controllers are made obsolete BY DESIGN and for no other reason than greed.
 
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Sleepwalker

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The dualsense isn't even that great of a controller IMO, and the haptic stuff is a gimmick for single player cinematic games (which tbf is great) that is pretty much pointless for people like OP and me who focus on multiplayer games.


Haptic feedback in MM, Astro, etc = amazing, love it
Haptic feedback in FIFA/COD online MP: Absolute trash that needs to be disabled at system level.


Hope the back button attachment for the dualsense comes out rather soon, I would like to get one.
 
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iHaunter

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Because new games REQUIRE Dual Sense to work properly. You can use DS4 for ALLLL PS4 and older games.
 
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do you know how many 3rd party controller manufacturers there are? do you know the number of models they release each year? Nacon alone has like 4 different models for PS4 (there's the Nacon Revolution, revolution Pro 3, revolution Pro Ultimate, some wired controllers, some wireless cheap ones...), Power A releases a new model every time the CEO is bored it seems, and these are only 2 companies.

so given that there are many companies with many controller models that all still alive and aren't bankrupt yet, I would say many people buy those.
this means many PS4 users have controllers with key features missing, and many PS5 owners will soon also have controllers with key features missing

can you tell me the difference it makes to have 1 controller compatible and another not compatible even tho they have the same features? hell, I bet there will be controllers on PS5 real quick that will have LESS features than the DualShock 4... many will just cut Sixaxis, or cut the Touchpad and just add a button there
this means we will one day have a situation where there are many people with controllers that are less capable than the DS4, and they will be able to use these controllers on PS5... while their DS4 controllers are made obsolete BY DESIGN and for no other reason than greed.

You know I'm just happy they added the features at the beginning of the generation instead of the middle of the generation. I still remember the annoyance with the Six Axis that was updated to the DualShock 3. Luckily I bought a PS3 with a DS3 so I didn't have that issue but it was still annoying.
 

HTK

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Because new games REQUIRE Dual Sense to work properly. You can use DS4 for ALLLL PS4 and older games.

That's just a false statement. I've played some Demons Souls nothing in that game requires a DualSense for it to work properly. In fact it's a PS3 game remastered for PS5...
 

01011001

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You know I'm just happy they added the features at the beginning of the generation instead of the middle of the generation. I still remember the annoyance with the Six Axis that was updated to the DualShock 3. Luckily I bought a PS3 with a DS3 so I didn't have that issue but it was still annoying.

well yeah, they had to, they didn't have a choice. they were in a dispute with the patent holders for the rumble and couldn't use it.
they then of course said that they removed it because it was a "last gen feature" and would "interfere with sixaxis" which was of course PR garbage just like this PR garbage that DS4 controllers don't work due to the missing features...
 
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sainraja

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do you know how many 3rd party controller manufacturers there are? do you know the number of models they release each year? Nacon alone has like a dozen different models for PS4 (there's the Nacon Revolution, revolution Pro 3, revolution Pro Ultimate, some wired controllers, some wireless cheap ones...), Power A releases a new model every time the CEO is bored it seems, and these are only 2 companies.

so given that there are many companies with many controller models that all still alive and aren't bankrupt yet, I would say many people buy those.
this means many PS4 users have controllers with key features missing, and many PS5 owners will soon also have controllers with key features missing

can you tell me the difference it makes to have 1 controller compatible and another not compatible even tho they have the same features? hell, I bet there will be controllers on PS5 real quick that will have LESS features than the DualShock 4... many will just cut Sixaxis, or cut the Touchpad and just add a button there
this means we will one day have a situation where there are many people with controllers that are less capable than the DS4. hell that one I mentioned, the Hex Rival Hair Trigger version, basically already is such a controller as that one removes the Analog Triggers... and you will be able to use these controllers on PS5... while their DS4 controllers are made obsolete BY DESIGN and for no other reason than greed.
Are you trying not to understand?

Not sure why this is triggering you so much.

Sony clearly wants to push the new features the DS5 controller has (otherwise they wouldn't have changed a single thing about their controller lol), creating the same exact controller would have been an easier sell than to create an entirely new one (they didn't just change the design - they added new features to it). To ensure games use the new features, they need to make sure each console ships with the controller (this is a non-issue given that's always been the case with a new gen, so this is the easy part) and secondly they also need to make sure all PS5 games require the DS5 — this very thread exists because the OP wanted to use the DS4 and he wasn't able to do so. Sony has done what they can (and what is in their control) to ensure support for the DS5 on their consoles.

You've got an axe to grind or something here (maybe you just hate Sony) OR you're looking for a fight....you want to argue a point that was never made lol. I am sure someone will find a way to get a DS4 to work (via third-party adapters so if you or anyone really wants to put effort into not using the DS5 those options will soon pop up) or hell, even Sony might add support if enough of a fuss is made but right now their goal is to get people to use DS5 as designed and developers to support it.
 
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01011001

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Are you trying not to understand?

Not sure why this is triggering you so much. Sony clearly wants to push the new features the DS5 controller has (otherwise they wouldn't have changed a single thing about their controller lol), creating the same exact controller would have been an easier sell than to create an entirely new one, for one (they didn't just change the design - they added new features to it). To ensure games use the new features, they need to make sure each console ships with the controller (this is a non-issue given that's always been the case with a new gen, so this is the easy part) and secondly they also need to make sure all PS5 games require the DS5 — this very thread exists because the OP wanted to use the DS4 and he wasn't able to do so. Sony has done what they can (and what is in their control) to ensure support for the DS5 on their consoles.

You've got an axe to grind or something here (not sure what) OR you're looking for a fight....you want to argue a point that was never made. lol

you countered someone that said people are making excuses for Sony to not support it. and all YOU did is make excuses while stating that you and others aren't making excuses.
there is no technological reason not to support it PERIOD
if you disagree with that you are delusional PERIOD
the DualShock 4 has all the necessary features needed to play every current and upcoming PS5 game PERIOD

Third party controllers are already on the way, with a premium one already out, that misses all of the Dualsense's features, more will follow, many people will buy those, many people will then own controllers that will miss features, those same people will still not be able to use their already owned DualShock 4's even tho they are as feature complete or more feature complete than said upcoming third party controllers (it already is more feature complete than the first one on the market)

ergo, Sony has no excuse to not support the DualShock 4 for PS5 games or at least let developers decide if you can or can not use them.

this is anti consumer and leads to complications in already existing games.

Example:
You have Borderlands 3 on PS4, the PS5 upgrade is out, you want to play the better version that also has new features like 4p splitscreen and other QOL improvements and better performance.
But wait... you can't upgrade... because you play it with your brother/friend/significant other in Splitscreen and you only have 1 Dualsense.
You can play the worse version of the game in Splitscreen, but not the better version, and the only reason being Sony arbitrarily locked out a perfectly funtioning controller for no reason that makes any sense to the customer

you are stuck with the slower loading, the worse graphics and less features, due to the choice Sony made. a choice that is unnecessary and has no technological reason either, as these controllers work on your console, just not with this arbitrarily chosen set of games that don't need any of the new Dualsense features and can never ever be designed around those features down the line either.

there are multiple games like that BTW. Mortal Kombat 11 for example... do fight sticks even work? my guess is no... so even worse here, you might have a 250€ gfight stick that just doesn't work with the updated version of the exact same game because Sony is once again being an asshole. and if they work this is just another reason why not supporting Dualshock 4 controllers makes no sense and is a dick move by Sony
 
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sainraja

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you countered someone that said people are making excuses for Sony to not support it. and all YOU did is make excuses while stating that you and others aren't making excuses.
there is no technological reason not to support it PERIOD
if you disagree with that you are delusional PERIOD
the DualShock 4 has all the necessary features needed to play every current and upcoming PS5 game PERIOD

Third party controllers are already on the way, with a premium one already out, that misses all of the Dualsense's features, more will follow, many people will buy those, many people will then own controllers that will miss features, those same people will still not be able to use their already owned DualShock 4's even tho they are as feature complete or more feature complete than said upcoming third party controllers (it already is more feature complete than the first one on the market)

ergo, Sony has no excuse to not support the DualShock 4 for PS5 games or at least let developers decide if you can or can not use them.

this is anti consumer and leads to complications in already existing games.

Example:
You have Borderlands 3 on PS4, the PS5 upgrade is out, you want to play the better version that also has new features like 4p splitscreen and other QOL improvements and better performance.
But wait... you can't upgrade... because you play it with your brother/friend/significant other in Splitscreen and you only have 1 Dualsense.
You can play the worse version of the game in Splitscreen, but not the better version, and the only reason being Sony arbitrarily locked out a perfectly funtioning controller for no reason that makes any sense to the customer

you are stuck with the slower loading, the worse graphics and less features, due to the choice Sony made. a choice that is unnecessary and has no technological reason either, as these controllers work on your console, just not with this arbitrarily chosen set of games that don't need any of the new Dualsense features and can never ever be designed around those features down the line either.

there are multiple games like that BTW. Mortal Kombat 11 for example... do fight sticks even work? my guess is no... so even worse here, you might have a 250€ gfight stick that just doesn't work with the updated version of the exact same game because Sony is once again being an asshole. and if they work this is just another reason why not supporting Dualshock 4 controllers makes no sense and is a dick move by Sony
LOL. You must be having a bad day because that is the only way I can explain your reactions to my posts so far. You are more than welcome to disagree or question the decision Sony's made but what's driving those decisions is what I have pointed out, in my very first post here and I will continue to point that out. You are trying to argue with me a point that I never made so you're just trying to pick a fight. I never said that DS4 cannot work with PS5 games.

I will quote it again for you, since you clearly missed the part where I clearly mention adoption. Sony's done what they have done (from what they can control) to drive adoption.
People aren't making excuses. The reason its mandatory is because the Dualsense has features the Dualshock 4 simply doesn't. You don't like it and you are welcome to that opinion but the reason DS5 is mandatory is simply due to the new features it has. To drive adoption, it has to be standard for PS5 games.
I think it is time for you to take a break lol
 
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well yeah, they had to, they didn't have a choice. they were in a dispute with the patent holders for the rumble and couldn't use it.
they then of course said that they removed it because it was a "last gen feature" and would "interfere with sixaxis" which was of course PR garbage just like this PR garbage that DS4 controllers don't work due to the missing features...

I agree it's bad but it isn't as bad as the whole situation with the Six Axis. It's a pretty minor nuisance compared to adding features in the middle of the generation. For example it would suck if they added paddles to the dualsense later on in the generation.

At least we are getting a pretty solid controller right at the beginning but I would be pissed at a major update halfway through the generation.
 

iHaunter

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That's just a false statement. I've played some Demons Souls nothing in that game requires a DualSense for it to work properly. In fact it's a PS3 game remastered for PS5...
It's not "Remastered" it's "Remade." You used DS4 on the NEW Demon's Souls?
 
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Remade whatever, no DS4 does not work on it.

There's a pretty big difference between a remake and a remaster. Especially considering the amount of work that goes into it.

You're right about the controller though. It was certainly playable with a DS3. For some the Dualsense did bring some nice enchantments.
 

HTK

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It's not a remaster though.

I really don't like it when people downplay Bluepoints work with the game. Sure some of the artistic choices are questionable but it's way more than just a simple remaster.

They did a good job I'm not trying to downplay it, now you guys reminded me i need to play it 😭
 
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I can’t give up the touch pad now that I’m used to it. At its most basic it’s a useful mouse, but when you throw in custom binds you can achieve some nice things. Touch, click, swipe, double press allow for quite a versatile input if you want to utilise it.
yea the double press on the touch pad is really useful on pc
 

Schmick

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Sony clearly wants to push the new features the DS5 controller has...

Not pushing hard enough if Sony literally let you turn the new features off.

Every PS5 sells with a DS and that is all devs need to feel comfortable incorporating the new features the DS offers into their games.

A dev could simply add a message at the beginning of the game saying "Best played with DualSense controller" if they felt they needed to.
 

Gameplaylover

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Not pushing hard enough if Sony literally let you turn the new features off.
Exactly. Allowing that option, but no DS4 makes the difference between visionary Sony and greedy Sony. They know they sold a shitload of DS4, but they also want to sell a shitload of DS. That's the way to go.
 
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You also can't use a DS3 on a PS4, a DS2 on PS3, a DS1 on PS2, a Wii U controller on Switch, an NES controller on a SNES, a N64 controller on GameCube, etc, etc, etc.
..but you can use a DS1 on the PS2. Works for every PS1 game and plenty of PS2 games. You can use a Gamecube controller on the Wii. And Wii U. And Switch. The gamecube controller acts like it's a pro controller, making it practically compatible with almost all games (there are still games that shouldn't be played with the Gamecube controller as it is not a good experience, you can still try though...) The entire set of Wii controls is compatible with the Wii U ... with a trick you can even use the Wii U Pro Controller on Switch
 

JoeBudden

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Yeah, I really wish we had an 'elite controller' for the PS5 since you really need back buttons for Apex Legends or Rocket League. Luckily, they're both still enhanced PS4 games, but they're both getting full PS5 makeovers soon (not ETA). You can still use DS4 for PS4 games on PS5, and Vanguard + BF2042 will have both PS4 and PS5 apps.

It's obvious why the PS5 doesn't support old controllers for new games, however. In games like Returnal and Astro, the adaptive triggers and haptics are literally part of the controls of the game. It's not surprised the biggest critics in this thread don't realize this.
 
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deriks

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another console, another joystick. Nothing new
 

Esppiral

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One word, greed.

And there are no excuses for this since you can stream Ps5 games and play them with other controller...
 
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xrnzaaas

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There's absolutely no reason to ban Dualshocks other than to force people to buy DualSense controllers. They aren't that different and you can disable the haptic feedback and triggers anyway. If Sony wanted to make PS4 controllers compatible with PS5 games they could make it happen.
 

soulbait

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It sucks for those who bought scuf etc. Some third parties now have paddles and buttons on the dualsense.

Unfortunately it's the only way to ensure developers spend time using the dualsense features. By knowing everyone on that platform will be using one.
But no. Every PS5 comes with a dual sense, therefore everyone has one. This throws that reasoning out the window. Every PS5 owner will have a DualSense, which would then be enough in the market to make sure the feature is used. If the fact that you can turn off the feature yourself does not stop developers from implementing it, then the ability to use a controller lacking it does not either. In the end of the day, this is Sony wanting to sell more controllers, where they have a higher markup on accessories, and making more money.

Now to be honest, the only reason why this is such an issue is because Xbox is allowing pretty much all accessories from Xbox One to work on the Series consoles. This is really the first time this has happened, removing a pain point that was always part of going into a new generation: accessory buying. It is a back look for Sony when their competitor allows somethng they do not, but what Sony is doing was the norm, until MS turned it upside down.

Still, makes no sense when the DS4 can be used on the PS5 when playing PS4 games, so the console is capable of reading the signal, they just block it for PS5 games.
 
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sainraja

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Not pushing hard enough if Sony literally let you turn the new features off.

Every PS5 sells with a DS and that is all devs need to feel comfortable incorporating the new features the DS offers into their games.

A dev could simply add a message at the beginning of the game saying "Best played with DualSense controller" if they felt they needed to.
Exactly. Allowing that option, but no DS4 makes the difference between visionary Sony and greedy Sony. They know they sold a shitload of DS4, but they also want to sell a shitload of DS. That's the way to go.
I acknowledged that. Shipping each PS5 box with the DS5 is one of the ways they ensured each person will have it. Making it a requirement for PS5 games is how they ensured it will be the controller people are using. You don't have to like the decision and that's your call. This is the last time I am going to say this but being able to turn off features does not mean the absence of them so if you want to continue to argue that point, well, you can, but it's irrelevant. And why does it need to be pointed out that they need to make money? They invested money into the DS5 so ofcourse they want to recoup that cost & profit. Why else would they push for its adoption? lol That all goes hand in hand. You're pointing out the obvious as if it's a unique insight.

Hell, it would have been much easier for them make minor changes to the controller and sell us that.

I mean, I get it. Some of you don't like that they are forcing it but that's the reality right now, I am just pointing out why it is so. If we wait long enough, a third-party adapter might solve the issue of using a DS4 or Sony might just remove the restriction.
 
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HTK

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It's not like if Sony enabled DS4 on PS5 games that there would be this huge title wave of people switching to DS4. I would be using the DS4 until Sony releases a DualSense Pro or the attachment for the back buttons. In this area Microsoft simply does a better job for consumers. We shouldn't be cheerleading Sony on this one.
 

rodrigolfp

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I mean, I get it. Some of you don't like that they are forcing it but that's the reality right now, I am just pointing out why it is so. If we wait long enough, a third-party adapter might solve the issue of using a DS4 or Sony might just remove the restriction.
Except they are not forcing the DualSense. You can use mouse+kb on CoD games on PS5 and I doubt Vanguard will be an exception. So the argument about forcing the DS is invalid...
 

Trimesh

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My guess is that the reason they aren't supporting the DS4 is mostly because the DS4 authentication protocol has been cracked and if you could run controls using the DS4 protocol on the PS5 it would allow people to make clone controllers that were compatible with the PS5 - which seeing as accessories like controllers have way higher profit margins that the console is not something you would want, especially this early in the product cycle where most likely you haven't made the R&D costs up yet..
 
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01011001

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My guess is that the reason they aren't supporting the DS4 is mostly because the DS4 authentication protocol has been cracked and if you could run controls using the DS4 protocol on the PS5 it would allow people to make clone controllers that were compatible with the PS5 - which seeing as accessories like controllers have way higher profit margins that the console is not something you would want, especially this early in the product cycle where most likely you haven't made the R&D costs up yet..

the DualShock 4 works on PS5 tho, just not with PS5 games
 

Gameplaylover

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I acknowledged that. Shipping each PS5 box with the DS5 is one of the ways they ensured each person will have it. Making it a requirement for PS5 games is how they ensured it will be the controller people are using. You don't have to like the decision and that's your call. This is the last time I am going to say this but being able to turn off features does not mean the absence of them so if you want to continue to argue that point, well, you can, but it's irrelevant. And why does it need to be pointed out that they need to make money? They invested money into the DS5 so ofcourse they want to recoup that cost & profit. Why else would they push for its adoption? lol That all goes hand in hand. You're pointing out the obvious as if it's a unique insight.

Hell, it would have been much easier for them make minor changes to the controller and sell us that.

I mean, I get it. Some of you don't like that they are forcing it but that's the reality right now, I am just pointing out why it is so. If we wait long enough, a third-party adapter might solve the issue of using a DS4 or Sony might just remove the restriction.
It's ok to look at it they way you do. But i got a friend with 4 DS4 controllers we used to play to coop with. He gives a shit about the controller gimmicks and is super pissed, that he has to spend another 200 Euro, just because Sony said: Fuck you, give us more money. And there are millions out there with more than just DS4 controller.

Sony knows there are lots of people that don't give a shit about or hate those controller gimmicks, so many that they even implemented the ability to disable that stuff. All those people have every right to feel ripped off, since it's most likely just a mouseklick for Sony.
 
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Trimesh

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the DualShock 4 works on PS5 tho, just not with PS5 games

Right, because that doesn't cut into the market for PS5 controllers - if anything that supports my theory, since there is clearly no technical issue preventing it from working.
 

phil_t98

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I'm starting to think that Sony really wants to kill the DS4 early as well as obtain some additional revenue from the new controllers.

For me it isn't an issue because I really don't want to go back to using the DS4 but I understand those that do.
The dual shock is a better controller 100% but why stop people using the controllers they already have if a mate comes round?

2 mates playing fifa one with dual shock and one with a last gen controller, it wouldn’t make any difference playing the game
 

ZywyPL

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Because Sony believes in generations. Aside the infamos Ryan's interview, they do focus and a given current gen and nothing else, which is a bummer given X86 architecture, the hardware/games should've been fully compatible from PS4 onward, but it's not the case because Sony doesn't think that much forward, which they already demonstrated with PS4 Pro and the infamous patches, now you have to make sure you have the PS5 version of the game installed, transfer the save files, and use DS and its gimmicks that aren't critical for the games, especially the mentioned cross-gen titles. They still sort of follow the philosophy of hard resetting everytime a new hardware appears, which INO is a very good and effective strategy in short term of 5-6 years a gen lasts, to put all the effort into here and now, into this pne particular console, but in long ter, again, given the x86 architecture, it brings you to situation like this, where stuff that seems so simple and logical all of a sudden becomes quantum physics/rocket science level of complication. Maybe it'll change in the future, maybe they'll update the FW and PSN to merge PS4 and 5 (and future consoles) together, but as of now it is what it is, if you're jumping onto PS5 you're better off forgetting the previos gen and pretend you just started gaming, you'll be less disappointed and everything will seem to work perfectly, as intended.
 

sainraja

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Aug 15, 2007
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It's ok to look at it they way you do. But i got a friend with 4 DS4 controllers we used to play to coop with. He gives a shit about the controller gimmicks and is super pissed, that he has to spend another 200 Euro, just because Sony said: Fuck you, give us more money. And there are millions out there with more than just DS4 controller.

Sony knows there are lots of people that don't give a shit about or hate those controller gimmicks, so many that they even implemented the ability to disable that stuff. All those people have every right to feel ripped off, since it's most likely just a mouseklick for Sony.
I am not sure what you mean by "it's ok to look at it they way you do" because I haven't said its the ideal experience. All I have said is why Sony wants to push the DS5 controller (I won't repeat the reasons already stated). It's natural that there will be those who don't like that and there will also be those who do or some who frankly just don't care.